Legacy Wide datacrons

[TravelersWay]

Well they did come out and say it's pretty much off the table for the time being due to "technical' reasons, in a livestream way back when. I can't say that I disagree with that reason. However, there have been many good suggestions on how to work around that issue and still make getting all those 'crons a little less painful, and maybe a little less boring. Myself, I had a suggestion a while back that would help with the painful portion at the least, which I have currently linked in my signature.

[-Snakesan-]

This thread has many posts from unique accounts in support of at least addressing the issues with the current Holocron system, more than enough to encourage a dev to take a peek at this. Please end this once and for all by giving the community something official. If it has the BW seal-of-approval we'll know its been addressed by those that can act on this request.

 

That being said and done, who has the authority to tell anyone how to play this game? If you want to request a change, go for it. Don't let the trolls get ya down.

 

To be more effective in any conversation in this forum try to refrain from:

 

• Demanding others to play this game to your playstyle in order to force your opinion into the subject. This is a forum for suggestions to the development team, not "EliteSadist543".
   
  
• Save these personal attacks for your guild website or twitter. Acting childish in such a public forum doesn't bode well for newcomers or those inquiring about joining the community.
   
  
• If you have nothing unique and substantial to add to the discussion simply find another thread to engage in.
  

 

 

You are not immune to response from the community if you choose to participate in the above behaviors.

 

Mods: There needs to be faster resolution to a report being issued. Taking 24hrs to remove a problem post by a known troll is entirely too long. (I might make a suggestion thread for that...)

[Ratajack]

This thread has many posts from unique accounts in support of at least addressing the issues with the current Holocron system, more than enough to encourage a dev to take a peek at this. Please end this once and for all by giving the community something official. If it has the BW seal-of-approval we'll know its been addressed by those that can act on this request.

 

That being said and done, who has the authority to tell anyone how to play this game? If you want to request a change, go for it. Don't let the trolls get ya down.

 

To be more effective in any conversation in this forum try to refrain from:

 

• Demanding others to play this game to your playstyle in order to force your opinion into the subject. This is a forum for suggestions to the development team, not "EliteSadist543".
   
  
• Save these personal attacks for your guild website or twitter. Acting childish in such a public forum doesn't bode well for newcomers or those inquiring about joining the community.
   
  
• If you have nothing unique and substantial to add to the discussion simply find another thread to engage in.
  

 

 

You are not immune to response from the community if you choose to participate in the above behaviors.

 

Mods: There needs to be faster resolution to a report being issued. Taking 24hrs to remove a problem post by a known troll is entirely too long. (I might make a suggestion thread for that...)

 

BW HAS addressed this issue. It just isn't the answer you want to hear.

 

Continuing to pester the devs will likely not change their answer. It also will not change the fact that they have said that to implement legacy wide datacrons would require a complete overhaul of the datacron system.

 

You can choose to ignore or dismiss that fact if you wish since it does not mesh with your desire to be handed rewards ON EACH AND EVERY CHARACTER, PRESENT AND FUTURE, for something only done by ONE, or even a few, character(s). Ignoring that fact will not change it, though.

[branmakmuffin]

This thread has many posts from unique accounts in support of at least addressing the issues with the current Holocron system, more than enough to encourage a dev to take a peek at this. Please end this once and for all by giving the community something official. If it has the BW seal-of-approval we'll know its been addressed by those that can act on this request.

There are no "issues" to address.

 

That being said and done, who has the authority to tell anyone how to play this game?

Anyone has the authority to tell another how to play the game. No one is obliged to follow such directions, though. Let's all be on the lookout for posters telling others how they should play the game. Nothing like that going on in this thread, so perhaps you should check another thread.

 

To be more effective in any conversation in this forum try to refrain from:

 

If you have nothing unique and substantial to add to the discussion simply find another thread to engage in.

You mean like if you keep posting you need a legacy-wide datacron unlock, over and over and over and over and over again?

 

Mods: There needs to be faster resolution to a report being issued. Taking 24hrs to remove a problem post by a known troll is entirely too long.

The definition of trolling in your eyes might very well be "disagrees with Snakesan" but that's not the general definition.

[EnkiduNineEight]

That being said and done, who has the authority to tell anyone how to play this game? If you want to request a change, go for it. Don't let the trolls get ya down.

 

To be more effective in any conversation in this forum try to refrain from:

 

• Demanding others to play this game to your playstyle in order to force your opinion into the subject. This is a forum for suggestions to the development team, not "EliteSadist543".
   
  
• Save these personal attacks for your guild website or twitter. Acting childish in such a public forum doesn't bode well for newcomers or those inquiring about joining the community.
   
  
• If you have nothing unique and substantial to add to the discussion simply find another thread to engage in.
  

 

This tired argument really wears on me. NO ONE is forcing you to play by their play style except the games developers who created the systems to begin.

 

This is not a single player game and things you do on your character can/do affect the experience for other players. Asking for ways to get around the game experience is not a 'play style' choice.

 

By continuing to call people who disagree with your ideas and make counter posts 'Trolls' or referring to them as 'EliteSadist543' is violating one of the bullet points on your list.

 

continuing to demand a feature the devs have already said isn't going to happen is likely also in violation of your ordered list. Its neither unique nor substantial to continue demanding something that the devs have already said won't be added.

 

If you don't like how the game plays, go find a single player game with cheat codes. This is a MMO and any change to a system such as the one you propose affects other players as well and you are essentially forcing them to play your way with your request/suggestion.

 

Every one of my characters gets al the datacrons in the process of leveling. Following the quests gets you close to all of the datacrons. Only a few require you to work with other players to achieve. All of them are doable and while some are boring/frustrating time sinks its not overly onerous. If you find the bonus provided to be _essential_ to your character, then do the work to get it.

 

The way your posts come off, to me, is as someone who is being shrill and angry because they have no other response to the posts others have made. You have no rational response so instead you engage in namecalling and demanding posts be censored and removed because they don't agree with you.

 

Frankly, if you put the same effort into playing the game as you do on making your repeated posts asking for the game to be made easier so you didn't have to expend effort to get a small stat bonus on a character you would likely be able to have all the datacrons on all your characters,

 

You're asking to skip content. Already we have 12x to allow folks to skip content.

We have 8x comms on those 12x missions to allow you to skip content.

You've renewed the cry to get legacy datacrons to skip content.

 

What, really, is the point to all the skipping?

[-Snakesan-]

This tired argument really wears on me. NO ONE is forcing you to play by their play style except the games developers who created the systems to begin.

 

This is not a single player game and things you do on your character can/do affect the experience for other players. Asking for ways to get around the game experience is not a 'play style' choice.

 

By continuing to call people who disagree with your ideas and make counter posts 'Trolls' or referring to them as 'EliteSadist543' is violating one of the bullet points on your list.

 

continuing to demand a feature the devs have already said isn't going to happen is likely also in violation of your ordered list. Its neither unique nor substantial to continue demanding something that the devs have already said won't be added.

 

If you don't like how the game plays, go find a single player game with cheat codes. This is a MMO and any change to a system such as the one you propose affects other players as well and you are essentially forcing them to play your way with your request/suggestion.

 

Every one of my characters gets al the datacrons in the process of leveling. Following the quests gets you close to all of the datacrons. Only a few require you to work with other players to achieve. All of them are doable and while some are boring/frustrating time sinks its not overly onerous. If you find the bonus provided to be _essential_ to your character, then do the work to get it.

 

The way your posts come off, to me, is as someone who is being shrill and angry because they have no other response to the posts others have made. You have no rational response so instead you engage in namecalling and demanding posts be censored and removed because they don't agree with you.

 

Frankly, if you put the same effort into playing the game as you do on making your repeated posts asking for the game to be made easier so you didn't have to expend effort to get a small stat bonus on a character you would likely be able to have all the datacrons on all your characters,

 

You're asking to skip content. Already we have 12x to allow folks to skip content.

We have 8x comms on those 12x missions to allow you to skip content.

You've renewed the cry to get legacy datacrons to skip content.

 

What, really, is the point to all the skipping?

 

I'm not sure anyone wants content skipped. The big push is for recognition of entries across your legacy. Stat bonuses shouldn't be a given and has been shot down many times in the past by devs, though some of those 'crons really could use a pass or two on a QnA level for things like accessibility and difficulty. Make the good datacrons hard to reach, not by engine limitations but by clever mechanics as seen across the galaxy.

 

The beef with the trolls is twofold, and you can verify it by looking through this thread and peaking under their previous posts in both related threads.

 

• They stick to the tired argument of "The request is for stats legacy-wide" which isn't true, at least hasn't been for a while now as exhibited in Thetraveler's post. Ignoring the topic at hand to continue to parade the narrative "You guys want free things" is nonsensical. A half-attentive glance over the past twenty pages of replies shows that motive is not present. This has been explained many times over by others in this thread, with a few others doing the job in the general discussion forum.
  
  
   
  
  
• This is, by definition, a forum for suggestions. Rules are not being broken by asking for this system, so the direct assaults by three very specific accounts should be seen as excessive. Stalking these threads to repeat your opinion on the matter to the point of insanity should be called out for what it is, and needs to be acted on as such.
  
  

 

 

My guarantee is this will be outright ignored by those few, who will continue to smash at their keyboards with their flawed notions of how a community interacts with itself. No doubt there will be another post of "Asking for stat bonuses legacy-wide is blah blah" with a bit of direct-fire added. Deal with it summarily.

[branmakmuffin]

'm not sure anyone wants content skipped. The big push is for recognition of entries across your legacy.

Dude, no one is opposed to character-specific codex entries so you can easily keep track of which character has which datacrons. If you are saying there are people opposed to that, you are either trolling or simply not paying attention.

[-Snakesan-]

Dude, no one is opposed to character-specific codex entries so you can easily keep track of which character has which datacrons. If you are saying there are people opposed to that, you are either trolling or simply not paying attention.

Take a moment to catch up on the topic at hand instead of rushing to assumptions -its been stated multiple times that people *want* legacy-wide recognition of datacron entries; not as you perceive it. In a stunning bout of irony you've managed to prove my point. :smileyindifferent:

[branmakmuffin]

Take a moment to catch up on the topic at hand instead of rushing to assumptions -its been stated multiple times that people *want* legacy-wide recognition of datacron entries

I'll let you tell us whether you are trolling or just trying to be funny with that statement, since you are simply repeating back to me what I said to you, yet with the implication that you are somehow saying something entirely different.

 

Once more, this time with feeling, legacy-wide datacron "recognition" (as in "your codex lists which characters have which datacrons), everyone is in favor of that. Making the datacron stat bonuses a legacy-wide unlock, negatory, pal.

 

Are we on the same page now?

Edited April 26, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[Ryric]

Eh, I'm still in favor of legacy-wide stats from datacrons. It's still a good idea and there still haven't been any valid arguments against it.

 

If people didn't want this the thread would die. It's not the anti-legacy datacrons people who keep reviving it.

 

Some sort of in-game checklist would be a nice feature too. Right now I actually use paper to records which characters have which datacrons.

[Ratajack]

Eh, I'm still in favor of legacy-wide stats from datacrons. It's still a good idea and there still haven't been any valid arguments against it.

 

If people didn't want this the thread would die. It's not the anti-legacy datacrons people who keep reviving it.

 

Some sort of in-game checklist would be a nice feature too. Right now I actually use paper to records which characters have which datacrons.

 

You can already have all those stat bonuses on each and every character in your legacy, present and future.

 

All you need to do is to put forth the minimal effort required to find the datacrons on all your characters, instead of asking to be handed those stat bonuses for nothing.

 

There still have been no valid arguments for handing out stat bonuses to EACH AND EVERY CHARACTER, PRESENT AND FUTURE for something done by ONE, or even a few, character(s). The only things I have seen boil down to:

 

"I'm too lazy to find the datacrons on all my characters, but I want those stat bonuses, so just give them to me."

[Ryric]

You can already have all those stat bonuses on each and every character in your legacy, present and future.

 

All you need to do is to put forth the minimal effort required to find the datacrons on all your characters, instead of asking to be handed those stat bonuses for nothing.

 

This is what I mean about no valid counterarguments. No one wants something for nothing. Try arguing against the actual idea.

 

There still have been no valid arguments for handing out stat bonuses to EACH AND EVERY CHARACTER, PRESENT AND FUTURE for something done by ONE, or even a few, character(s). The only things I have seen boil down to:

 

"I'm too lazy to find the datacrons on all my characters, but I want those stat bonuses, so just give them to me."

 

...and this is arguing against the person presenting the idea. It's not actually addressing the idea, it's an attempt to deflect argument onto the opposing person and draw attention away from the actual argument. It is also an invalid argument.

 

But here's an argument for legacy wide datacrons anyway. By creating an unlock, you allow a player to do activities they enjoy (garnering XP and credits) to substitute for an activity that many do not enjoy(fighting lag, bad clipping, and random teleports back). As such individuals would have already acquired all the datacrons, they would simply be exchanging credits for time - it's in all ways functionally equivalent to buying off the cooldown on QT.

[Ratajack]

I'm not sure anyone wants content skipped. The big push is for recognition of entries across your legacy. Stat bonuses shouldn't be a given and has been shot down many times in the past by devs, though some of those 'crons really could use a pass or two on a QnA level for things like accessibility and difficulty. Make the good datacrons hard to reach, not by engine limitations but by clever mechanics as seen across the galaxy.

 

The beef with the trolls is twofold, and you can verify it by looking through this thread and peaking under their previous posts in both related threads.

 

• They stick to the tired argument of "The request is for stats legacy-wide" which isn't true, at least hasn't been for a while now as exhibited in Thetraveler's post. Ignoring the topic at hand to continue to parade the narrative "You guys want free things" is nonsensical. A half-attentive glance over the past twenty pages of replies shows that motive is not present. This has been explained many times over by others in this thread, with a few others doing the job in the general discussion forum.
  
  
   
  
  
• This is, by definition, a forum for suggestions. Rules are not being broken by asking for this system, so the direct assaults by three very specific accounts should be seen as excessive. Stalking these threads to repeat your opinion on the matter to the point of insanity should be called out for what it is, and needs to be acted on as such.
  
  

 

 

My guarantee is this will be outright ignored by those few, who will continue to smash at their keyboards with their flawed notions of how a community interacts with itself. No doubt there will be another post of "Asking for stat bonuses legacy-wide is blah blah" with a bit of direct-fire added. Deal with it summarily.

 

 

If you are talking about "recognition", I have supported legacy wide CODEX entries from the start. I have also supported adding the functionality of sorting those codex entries by datacron (seeing which characters have found each datacron) or by character (seeing which datarons each character has found).

 

I do not recall anyone being opposed to legacy wide CODEX entries, only making the stat bonuses legacy wide.

 

I do think you are mistaken when you say that the discussion is only about "recognition" and that no one is asking for legacy wide stat bonuses. If you go back and read this thread or any of the other similar threads, you will see many of those "suggesting" legacy wide datacrons are "asking" to have the stat bonuses on EACH AND EVERY CHARACTER, PRESENT AND FUTURE, without having to find the datacrons on every character.

 

Here are some quotes:

 

100% agree with it going to legacy, do not agree it should have anything to do with Cartel If you subscribe, you get the perk with sub, if you don't then you can buy it on Cartel.

 

Ive personally done the hunt on 4 characters and its horrendous, im not doing it again.

 

There are boxes that drop warzone commendations in the Outlaw's Den, social points are obtained by doing virtually ANYTHING in a group, there is literally no way to avoid maxing social unless you actively solo EVERYTHING. So far everything that you've listed as "optional" has multiple paths to obtain them. All of the argument's I've seen against Datacron's being legacy wide with a paid unlock generally have to do with either people disagreeing simply for the sake of disagreeing or have no realistic assessments of the impact on the game. Are they 100% needed, no, are they nice? Yes. Would it be a quality of life improvement to have them as an optional paid unlock? Yes. If you want to keep hopping around on all of your characters feel free, however I'd like to have the stats on the many multiple of toons I have, it isn't game breaking and it isn't fun to do, so let me buy them. Its no different than paid unlocks to increase the amount of GTN slots you have, or character slots, or swifter cooldowns on instant travel.

 

Even you were not simply concerned about recognition, it seems:

 

We agree that at least codex entries should be shared, that's about it. Stop harassing others for voicing support (for almost three years) for a widely requested change. Unless you have some magical crystal ball that can say *with absolute certainty* there will be nothing but negative repercussions for requesting this, then I'll kindly back off.

 

/kowtow

 

Why would codex entries be the only thing we agree upon if that is the only thing this thread (or even you) was addressing being made legacy wide? Why would there even be anything more upon which for us to agree if legacy wide codex entries was the only thing being discussed?

 

Here are some more quotes:

 

I got rid of the rest of it because its pretty much worthless. The stats are important if you're planning on running top tier end game ops. I've done them on several characters however I'd prefer to not do it on the rest. However can you tell me a good reason to NOT allow them to be legacy wide after you've obtained them all? A compelling reason, not just drivel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This one was posted after your post, but the demand is the same:

 

Eh, I'm still in favor of legacy-wide stats from datacrons. It's still a good idea and there still haven't been any valid arguments against it.

 

If people didn't want this the thread would die. It's not the anti-legacy datacrons people who keep reviving it.

 

Some sort of in-game checklist would be a nice feature too. Right now I actually use paper to records which characters have which datacrons.

 

I could go on, as this thread alone is full of demands for the stat bonuses to be legacy wide, but I think I've proved that this thread is NOT just about legacy wide "recognition" for most of those demanding legacy wide datacrons.

[Ratajack]

This is what I mean about no valid counterarguments. No one wants something for nothing. Try arguing against the actual idea.

 

 

 

...and this is arguing against the person presenting the idea. It's not actually addressing the idea, it's an attempt to deflect argument onto the opposing person and draw attention away from the actual argument. It is also an invalid argument.

 

If you wish to consider pointing out the motivation for these demands as trying to draw attention away form the actual argument, then I cannot stop you. IMO, it is not. It is simply boiling down the demands to their basest form- that being an aversion to effort. To be specific, that would be the aversion to the effort required to find the datacrons on those characters people wish to have the bonuses.

 

 

But here's an argument for legacy wide datacrons anyway. By creating an unlock, you allow a player to do activities they enjoy (garnering XP and credits) to substitute for an activity that many do not enjoy(fighting lag, bad clipping, and random teleports back). As such individuals would have already acquired all the datacrons, they would simply be exchanging credits for time - it's in all ways functionally equivalent to buying off the cooldown on QT.

 

Functionally equivalent to lowering the cooldown on quicktravel? Really? Does quick travel give you permanent stat bonuses or does it just make it quicker to get from point a to point B?

 

The same argument you want to use as a justification for legacy wide datacron stat bonus unlocks could also be used to justify allowing ANY REWARD to be given to EACH AND EVERY CHARACTER, PRESENT AND FUTURE, for something done by only ONE, or even a few, character(s).

 

The person who doesn't enjoy PVP'ing, but wants the PVP gear because they like the appearances would be able to continue engaging in the PVE content they do enjoy if they were able to purchase an unlock that allowed them to just be handed a full set of that PVP gear for each and every character, present and future, once they had obtained a full set of PVP one ONE character. They have already obtained a full set of gear for one character. They would simply exchanging credits for time, right?

 

The person who doesn't enjoy doing dailies, but does them anyway for the credits, could continue to engage in the activities they DO find enjoyable if they could purchase an unlock that gave each and every character an equal amount of credits each time one of their characters earned any credits. After all, they would simply be exchanging some credits now to save some time in the future.

[-Snakesan-]

I'll let you tell us whether you are trolling or just trying to be funny with that statement, since you are simply repeating back to me what I said to you, yet with the implication that you are somehow saying something entirely different.

 

Once more, this time with feeling, legacy-wide datacron "recognition" (as in "your codex lists which characters have which datacrons), everyone is in favor of that. Making the datacron stat bonuses a legacy-wide unlock, negatory, pal.

 

Are we on the same page now?

You would be correct.

[branmakmuffin]

But here's an argument for legacy wide datacrons anyway. By creating an unlock, you allow a player to do activities they enjoy (garnering XP and credits) to substitute for an activity that many do not enjoy(fighting lag, bad clipping, and random teleports back).

If they don't enjoy it, they shouldn't do it. Personally, I don't engage in a leisure activity unless I enjoy it.

[Ryric]

Functionally equivalent to lowering the cooldown on quicktravel? Really? Does quick travel give you permanent stat bonuses or does it just make it quicker to get from point a to point B?

 

Yes really. Datacrons are located at locations. Making them legacy wide is equivalent to granting QT to all those locations(well, except weaker, as you can't actually travel there). You've already been there once.

[DarthVengeant]

Same tired arguments against this, which is mostly propagated by self centered elitists who fail to realize someone else having the unlock would not effect them or their game at all.

 

Bioware already has indeed responded to this before, one time in a Cantina. It is on their wall of crazy, but don't expect it anytime soon. I have always been a supporter of Legacy Datacrons, but Bioware have other things they want to do instead or more.

Edited April 27, 2015 by DarthVengeant

[Ratajack]

Yes really. Datacrons are located at locations. Making them legacy wide is equivalent to granting QT to all those locations(well, except weaker, as you can't actually travel there). You've already been there once.

 

No. NOT really. Using QT does NOT give your character a permanent stat bonus simply for getting to point B. You also cannot get to point B on ONE character and have all your characters placed at point B simply because ONE character is at point B.

 

You want to be rewarded by having the stat bonuses for the datacrons for EACH AND EVERY CHARACTER, PRESENT AND FUTURE, simply for having done something ONCE on ONE character.

[Ryric]

You want to be rewarded by having the stat bonuses for the datacrons for EACH AND EVERY CHARACTER, PRESENT AND FUTURE, simply for having done something ONCE on ONE character.

 

Still attacking the motivation and not the idea. Sigh. What you don't seem to get is that the motivation of the people who want this doesn't matter. We could want legacy datacrons because it helps us foreclose orphanages and kick puppies and it still wouldn't be relevant to the merit of the idea.

 

Also, you're basically wrong here anyway. I already have the datacrons on all my alts. I get them while leveling as Petfish suggests. This unlock would be of little value to me - but it's still a good idea. Even if I don't personally benefit from it.

[JennyCharmers]

This unlock would be of little value to me - but it's still a good idea. Even if I don't personally benefit from it.

 

Why is it a good idea to remove a game play element from the game?

Any way you try to spin it, it comes down to not wanting to do it again, but then that can be used with any number of other game play elements in the game as well, so any argument for doing this also goes in hand with removing others.

I know what I'm saying could be construed as a slippery-slope, but it is what it is.

[Ryric]

Why is it a good idea to remove a game play element from the game?

Any way you try to spin it, it comes down to not wanting to do it again, but then that can be used with any number of other game play elements in the game as well, so any argument for doing this also goes in hand with removing others.

I know what I'm saying could be construed as a slippery-slope, but it is what it is.

 

Fundamentally, datacron hunting is about going to an in game location and clicking a target. That's it. It's the exact same every time you do it, no matter what character class you play. It doesn't care about skill, level, or the RNG. If you've done it once you can literally do it again the exact same way with as many other characters as you like. Sitting on the balloon with my tank powertech is exactly the same as sitting on the balloon with my dps scoundrel. Other game content like operations, dailies, flashpoints, PVP, and so forth all vary based on what you are playing, group composition, the RNG, and so forth. There is none of that with datacrons. Redoing them has exactly as much gameplay value as walking back to base instead of using QT.

 

Just so we're on the same page, I'm not advocating making this cheap. Personally I'd require legacy 50, datacron master, and about 5 million credits/5000 cc per character to unlock. Make people have to really think about buying it.

[Overmind]

After I painfully leveled all my characters to L60, 12x XP came up.

Logic dictates that if I gather all datacrons on all of them, then they will be legacy-unlockable.

[branmakmuffin]

After I painfully leveled all my characters to L60, 12x XP came up

Clearly it was not "painfully," or you would not have bothered.

 

Logic dictates that if I gather all datacrons on all of them, then they will be legacy-unlockable.

And logic dictates that if you leveled one Scoundrel to 60, you should be able to unlock in legacy as many other level 60 Scoundrels as you want. Or once you get Social 10 on a character, you should be able to unlock that via legacy. Or Valor 100. Or any character-specific title. As noted, you can use the same argument about any character-specific skill/trait/item/ability/stat/title/whatever: "Hey, I got it on one character and I don't want to bother getting it with others, so, to satisfy my 'OCD.' I need to be able to unlock it on all of my characters."

 

This is not about the stats. This is about it bothering your sense of completionism.

[branmakmuffin]

He was being sarcastic, yet like a really bad troll you managed to find something wrong with another community members commentary and promptly took it to the next level.

So the same reasoning does not apply. Why not?