Legacy Wide datacrons

[chriscshunter]

Yea If you have 13 level 55 Toons it starts to make sense after doing this about 7 times I refuse to go get them I believe I have completed it enough times it should be account wide and I would pay $ 10 or $ 20 just to not have to do it ever again

 

After reading through these posts it seems to me that the majority should rule. It looks like about 10:1 for the unlock with some who probably only play one or two toons that oppose and those of us with a lot of toons for it . I cant see how making this a legacy wide unlock would hurt anything other than some feelings of the few who appose the idea

 

Exactly... I mean its simple... why the hell is anyone opposed to this? I swear there are people in this world who will always disagree with things even if it just makes sense.

[odonoghuet]

Those are the core problem, but instead of asking to fix the problematic parts, people are asking here to throw the whole heap together and turn it into handouts. But there are very few specific complaints about the datacron trips.

 

Very valid points Asherall, and a reasonable arguement.

 

The problem I personally have I suspect is the issue others may have, that Bioware are more likely to give us an unlock to this issue than actually fix the laggy bad code jumping problem.

 

Fact is that a lot of this game feels like the programmers are spread too thin. The reason we can't have chairs we can sit in in cantinas has been stated it would be too much work to remove the current furnature and replace it. So no chairs even on fleet or nar shadda cantinas. I am surprised they went back and fixed those datacron issues you listed as it were, but going back and fixing the smoothness of the game code or badly laid out jump patterns is asking a lot more for the payoff than a legacy unlock that acheives to thier pov the same goal.

 

This unlock would indeed trivialize the Repeating of this content, but this content is already trivial even as it is required. Hopefully a developer may read these posts and think it is a reasonable idea to fix or have a short cut to aid repeat getting to the datacrons that are poorly placed for the game code mechanics.

 

But this is again about the repeatedly getting of this content, not an open key to ignoring and paying for stat boosts that haven't been gained at least once already. And it is well requested in this thread as a reasonable choice for players who love the game and its contents. It is not a pay to win option, it is a simple quality of play experiance request.

[odonoghuet]

Exactly... I mean its simple... why the hell is anyone opposed to this? I swear there are people in this world who will always disagree with things even if it just makes sense.

 

Actually I think Ash has a very reasonable arguement. The problem was it had to be dragged out over a half dozen more pages because it is easy for people on forums to start with calls of lazy and replies of elitist than to actually sit down and think through to the true emotions of the motivation for thier support or opposition. The problem with jumping the gun and labelling others to dismiss them is that you loose sight of the issue for the words.

 

To be honest feeling that content you have done successfully that you think will become trivial just because the next guy does it less than you for the same result, is elitist. But using the word elitist as if it is a slurr is wrong because elitism can encourage some people to perform better and push themselves.

 

Calling strangers lazy because they don't want to repeat the same crappy poorly designed and in several cases broken content is just as bad. It is meant to be a game, an escape from life and work. That doesn't mean it should be easy but it does mean it should not be a non compeditive exersize in frustration.

 

This forum is a hotbed of trolls, but no more than life itself is at every level of society. The only defense in life or the forums is good communications and some self respect.

 

Now that the arguement is done we can simply ask for thjis once if we support it, or say no and why once if against.

[FuryoftheStars]

Actually I think Ash has a very reasonable arguement. The problem was it had to be dragged out over a half dozen more pages because it is easy for people on forums to start with calls of lazy and replies of elitist than to actually sit down and think through to the true emotions of the motivation for thier support or opposition. The problem with jumping the gun and labelling others to dismiss them is that you loose sight of the issue for the words.

 

To be honest feeling that content you have done successfully that you think will become trivial just because the next guy does it less than you for the same result, is elitist. But using the word elitist as if it is a slurr is wrong because elitism can encourage some people to perform better and push themselves.

 

Calling strangers lazy because they don't want to repeat the same crappy poorly designed and in several cases broken content is just as bad. It is meant to be a game, an escape from life and work. That doesn't mean it should be easy but it does mean it should not be a non compeditive exersize in frustration.

 

This forum is a hotbed of trolls, but no more than life itself is at every level of society. The only defense in life or the forums is good communications and some self respect.

 

Now that the arguement is done we can simply ask for thjis once if we support it, or say no and why once if against.

 

The biggest problem with Ashera's arguments is that they have been calls of mere laziness from the start. Hasn't been until these more recent posts that (s)he used the buggy argument. So to me personally, it sounds more like Ashera is grasping at straws, now.

[PetFish]

Exactly... I mean its simple... why the hell is anyone opposed to this? I swear there are people in this world who will always disagree with things even if it just makes sense.

 

Many of us have clearly stated why we're opposed to this idea and it's not to just "disagree with things".

 

You're right, though, it *is* simple to just walk up and grab 80-90% of the Datacrons.

 

I think this thread should just die cuz neither side is getting anywhere and some people are starting to take things personally.

[chriscshunter]

I think this thread should just die cuz neither side is getting anywhere and some people are starting to take things personally.

I'd prefer it didn't. In any change there is always going to be someone complaining. I just hope that they can coop with the horrible reality of having the choice of investing some CC's to avoid persistence.

 

"Oh no! I'm so mad that Bioware gave me a new option to avoid repetition, this is sooo awful!" Its *********** stupid, go find something reasonable to defend or play the game.

Edited May 2, 2013 by chriscshunter

[FuryoftheStars]

Many of us have clearly stated why we're opposed to this idea and it's not to just "disagree with things".

 

Well, really, it kind of is. The primary argument offered is because it is promoting "laziness", with a secondary of its somehow hurting other people's game experience.

 

The mere argument of laziness in a video game makes me laugh to myself. Putting aside the fact that many people would call you lazy simply for playing a video game, a game is supposed to be a form of entertainment, something that we can kick back and be lazy during and not stress out over anything. Obviously a game cannot go so far as to have an "I win" button in it because then that just makes it no fun for 95% of everyone. And yes, it is entertaining finding and reaching all of the Datacrons the first time, maybe even the second. But the third? Fourth? Tenth? It's no longer fun or entertaining... we're just going through the motions. And some are just a source of frustration for those who are bad at the jumps (which, by the way, we all know full well BW will not invest the energy into fixing because Datacrons is practically the only place where it becomes an issue).

 

As for the hurting others' game experience, as both sides have agreed on, Datacrons are an optional, minimal content in the game that is not needed to play. We are not suggesting putting in a Legacy unlock that just *poofs* gives all Datacrons without your ever having seen one. We want you to have to visit every single one at least once in order to gain the bonus. For both factions even. This just means one only has to run the Datacrons 134 times (67 each side), rather than 600+.

 

People already complain in this game about "repetitive" side quests of go here, kill X many of enemy, return... and so quite often skip them, using Legacy unlocks (and XP boost consumables) to boost their experience gained so they can stay on top of things. I'd say the Datacrons are just as bad with repetitiveness. So we're asking for the option to "skip" them on the alts, but still be able to stay on top of things... same as the skipping of side quests.

Edited May 2, 2013 by FuryoftheStars

[zzoorrzz]

What the hell is a legacy FP OP's or Leveling? That makes no sense???

 

That is - if I lvled 1 character to 50 or 55, it should be legacy, so I don't have to lvl up another, just create new chars on the top lvl. Exactly the same thing as datacrons.

Edited May 2, 2013 by zzoorrzz

[MajikMyst]

Petfish however created his evidence chart and is not reading anymore because he has his answer, even though his conclusions have been argued as wrong (Jumping does not increase time taken in a linear form or account satisfaction of returns on frustrating repeat content), and wants the thread closed because he somehow thinks in his dreamland that he won it.

 

You might want to take a refresher on reading or reading comprehension..

 

I think this thread should just die cuz neither side is getting anywhere and some people are starting to take things personally.

 

That in no way implies that he thinks he won it.. Nor is he in a dreamland.. You on the other hand?? Well.. Being in dreamland would make paraphrasing and reading somewhat difficult... Which would explain your incorrect response..

 

And no.. There is no need to make the datacrons legacy.. If you don't want to play the game then fine.. Don't.. It is as simple as that..

Edited May 2, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Superninfreak]

Honestly if there's a way to have Datacrons be based on Legacy, I'd actually take the time to get them all.

 

Just make it a legacy unlock.

[chriscshunter]

Honestly if there's a way to have Datacrons be based on Legacy, I'd actually take the time to get them all.

 

Just make it a legacy unlock.

 

Thanks for your support. The birth at a new datacron hunter if this is an option... what more do you need to hear???

[NeoSeoul]

A legacy datacron unlock should be available if you've already collected all of them at least twice (once Republic and once Imperial). And you have a certain legacy level (50?). But that's just to unlock the legacy, you still have to pay for it. And BW could milk more credits/CC by making it per Planet or something. Or just unlock the stats and not the shards.

 

If you don't want to pay just collect the datacrons yourself. If you've already collected them all and want to save some time by paying credits or CC then do so.

[SWGEvictee]

If you want the stat bonus from the datacrons fine, go get them. If getting to them again is too big a pain in the arse then don't bother. There is no reason to allow people to pay to win by bypassing content and still getting the rewards from it by paying a fee. And make no mistake being able to by stats is pay to win.

[FuryoftheStars]

That is - if I lvled 1 character to 50 or 55, it should be legacy, so I don't have to lvl up another, just create new chars on the top lvl. Exactly the same thing as datacrons.

No, it's not. Being able to get insta lvl 50 character allows one to level a character without actually learning how to play the character. It allows you access to game impacting changes with no work. Datacrons have insignificant impact on the way the game plays.

 

If you want the stat bonus from the datacrons fine, go get them. If getting to them again is too big a pain in the arse then don't bother. There is no reason to allow people to pay to win by bypassing content and still getting the rewards from it by paying a fee. And make no mistake being able to by stats is pay to win.

Please... explain to me this "content" you speak of.

And no, it's not pay to win. The stats gained from all of the datacrons is less then the stats on a single piece of high-end PvE gear. Several times less, even. As both sides have stated, the impact it plays is insignificant.

 

 

 

And because I know it's coming from someone: "Well then, if it's so insignificant, you don't need it then, do you?"

No... we don't. We're certainly not going to /quit (or /ragequit) if we don't get it. But it was a "nice QoL" improvement for us that we're suggesting.

 

So why are we fighting so adamantly for it? Because of people coming in here saying it's a "terrible" idea, it's promoting "laziness" (which is an insult towards us), and that it's going to break gameplay. We believe these statements are false, and that is why we are arguing.

 

Someone don't like it? They don't want it? That's fine. They're more than welcome to come in and say "no thanks" and if the idea is implemented, they don't have to purchase the option. But coming in with insultive and false arguments will get a response.

[AsheraII]

No, it's not. Being able to get insta lvl 50 character allows one to level a character without actually learning how to play the character. It allows you access to game impacting changes with no work. Datacrons have insignificant impact on the way the game plays.

 

 

Please... explain to me this "content" you speak of.

And no, it's not pay to win. The stats gained from all of the datacrons is less then the stats on a single piece of high-end PvE gear. Several times less, even. As both sides have stated, the impact it plays is insignificant.

 

 

 

And because I know it's coming from someone: "Well then, if it's so insignificant, you don't need it then, do you?"

No... we don't. We're certainly not going to /quit (or /ragequit) if we don't get it. But it was a "nice QoL" improvement for us that we're suggesting.

 

So why are we fighting so adamantly for it? Because of people coming in here saying it's a "terrible" idea, it's promoting "laziness" (which is an insult towards us), and that it's going to break gameplay. We believe these statements are false, and that is why we are arguing.

 

Someone don't like it? They don't want it? That's fine. They're more than welcome to come in and say "no thanks" and if the idea is implemented, they don't have to purchase the option. But coming in with insultive and false arguments will get a response.

So, we're not allowed to voice our opinion on these forums? Legacy datacrons are a bad idea in my opinion, and they always will be. The stat benefit is neglible. The time invested is too. But some people actually DO enjoy this content, and yes, turning it into a legacy unlock does trivialize the accomplishment of aquiring them for each character yourself.

 

Don't like operations? Then don't do them!

Don't like PvP? Then don't join warzones!

Don't like space combat? Skip it!

Don't like datacrons? Then don't bloody go after them.

 

But if you don't do operations, you will NOT get any of the gear, mounts, pets etc. from it either.

If you don't do PvP, then you won't gain any valor.

If you don't do space combat, then you won't get whatevers' left for rewards for it.

If you don't get those datacrons, then, guess what? you don't deserve that marginal stat bonus either.

 

I have done about everything on my characters combined. But none of my characters did everything on its own. My consular is the one with raid gear, because she raided. My sniper is the one with PvP gear, because she PvP'd. But the things one character had access to didn't automatically grant the other character those same things. If I want PvP gear or titles on my consular, I''ll have to do PvP on my consular, NOT on my agent. But, I pvp'd on my agent, so my consular never got a full EWH set. But she never deserved one either. She'd be dead weight to the pvp team, and that's not because of her gear, but simply because I never invested much time into learning how to PvP with her.

[FuryoftheStars]

So, we're not allowed to voice our opinion on these forums?

Nice reading skills....

Someone don't like it? They don't want it? That's fine. They're more than welcome to come in and say "no thanks" and if the idea is implemented, they don't have to purchase the option. But coming in with insultive and false arguments will get a response.

[odonoghuet]

You might want to take a refresher on reading or reading comprehension..

 

That in no way implies that he thinks he won it.. Nor is he in a dreamland.. You on the other hand?? Well.. Being in dreamland would make paraphrasing and reading somewhat difficult... Which would explain your incorrect response..

 

And no.. There is no need to make the datacrons legacy.. If you don't want to play the game then fine.. Don't.. It is as simple as that..

 

Of course it does. Asking for closing and deleting an arguement only benefits his point of view on the issue and does nothing to address the issue. His and your inability to even acknowledge the issue people have without going going back to debunked points already proves that you simply wish to troll the idea to death rather than address it.

 

There is no need for legacy in the game. It is a feature that then has lots of features meant for speeding the game and getting through leveling and play at a faster rate. The legacy XP buffs are given to cut corners on content. The legacy speeders and priority transport cut corners to content. Mail and Repair droids cut the content of needing to return to vendors to sell non junk crap or find mail boxes. Legacy training dumbies cut the corner of having that content on the fleet ops ship. Legacy race unlock human is a bypass having to play content for a buff. BtLegacy equipment lets you gear alts with OPs drops. HK51 unlock is a bypass of having to run his quest content again.

 

Legacy is nothing but features for cutting corners on repeat play and we are suggesting one that we would like and are open to a variety of solutions to.

 

You say no because you think everyone should do it the way you did it, which we already have.

[Superninfreak]

So, we're not allowed to voice our opinion on these forums? Legacy datacrons are a bad idea in my opinion, and they always will be. The stat benefit is neglible. The time invested is too. But some people actually DO enjoy this content, and yes, turning it into a legacy unlock does trivialize the accomplishment of aquiring them for each character yourself.

 

Don't like operations? Then don't do them!

Don't like PvP? Then don't join warzones!

Don't like space combat? Skip it!

Don't like datacrons? Then don't bloody go after them.

 

But if you don't do operations, you will NOT get any of the gear, mounts, pets etc. from it either.

If you don't do PvP, then you won't gain any valor.

If you don't do space combat, then you won't get whatevers' left for rewards for it.

If you don't get those datacrons, then, guess what? you don't deserve that marginal stat bonus either.

 

I have done about everything on my characters combined. But none of my characters did everything on its own. My consular is the one with raid gear, because she raided. My sniper is the one with PvP gear, because she PvP'd. But the things one character had access to didn't automatically grant the other character those same things. If I want PvP gear or titles on my consular, I''ll have to do PvP on my consular, NOT on my agent. But, I pvp'd on my agent, so my consular never got a full EWH set. But she never deserved one either. She'd be dead weight to the pvp team, and that's not because of her gear, but simply because I never invested much time into learning how to PvP with her.

 

How many characters do you have?

 

How many of them have every single datacron?

[MajikMyst]

How many characters do you have?

 

How many of them have every single datacron?

 

That doesn't really matter..

 

But hey.. If you don't want to collect the datacrons on your alts.. Then don't make alts.. How is that??

 

I really don't understand why people make alts and then complain about having to play the game with them.. Doesn't make much sense to me..

[Seireeni]

That doesn't really matter..

 

But hey.. If you don't want to collect the datacrons on your alts.. Then don't make alts.. How is that??

 

I really don't understand why people make alts and then complain about having to play the game with them.. Doesn't make much sense to me..

 

I like the stories. I don't like getting the same datacrons all over again, since they can be really hard to get for a person as horrible in jumping as I am.

If a pve player would be forced to pvp in order to get better stats, don't you think they would be whining about it? Oh, but if they don't like playing the game, why did they start playing it at the first place?

[SWGEvictee]

=

"NOO BIOWARE DON'T IMPROVE YOUR GAME WITH MORE OPTIONS! I enjoy doing this menial task over and over on every single toon without the temptations of being able to save my brain and my life a few hours from doing the same thing over and over!"

Booohoo! Idiot... find another thread to take a sh*t in ya tard! Ya blew it! Capeesh?

 

Well that was a rational and well thought out rebuttal. And you accuse others of taking dumps in a thread. You should look in the mirror. For shame.

[TridusSWTOR]

Point: My Shadow Tank cleared all raiding content. I have already invested all the time and effort. Now when my Gunslinger dinged levelcap, the gunslinger should've gotten all the gear from the operations content for free, since I, as a player, already invested all the time and effort required. I don't like operations, but it was the only content available to further progress my Shadow, so I had no other option. Maybe as a Legacy unlock for 500 Cartel Coins or something?

 

Now, that is rediculous, right? Well, Legacy wide Datacrons are the exact same thing: YOU may not like the content, but OTHERS DO. As much as you would not want the content from operations trivialized by giving alts all the gear for free, those others do not want their preferred content type trivialized either. It doesn't affect you one bit if my Gunslinger gets BiS gear for free, you can still get it on your own alts the normal way if you prefer that, right? Just the effort may feel a bit more hollow. Just as the effort of my gunslinger getting the same datacron my Shadow already had would feel more hollow if it had been obtainable through a simple legacy unlock.

 

And "time and effort" to aquire datacrons? It's easier and less time consuming to get ALL datacrons in game than it is to get one specific item from an end-game operation. The proces of gearing up, wiping, attempting, learning, not dropping and losing rolls will take WEEKS. By comparison, you can grab every single datacron in game within about 7 hours, though I'm sure some people can ace it in only 4 hours.

 

So something that requires 7 other people not including yourself(or more if you are doing 16mans) is the same as a solo datacron hunting run.?

 

So learning strats and postioning, min-maxing mods and enhancements, learning rotations to better yourself- is the same as a solo datacron hunting run?

 

So fighting bosses on NiM TFB/SnV, some of the hardest content in the game. Probably will take a lot of time and invest with a certain group- Is the same as a solo datacron hunting run?

 

If you are going to compare, actually compare it to something that makes sense.

 

Hey, I did my class story on my jedi knight. Therefore I should be given valor rank 100 with the best PVP gear out there. Oh there not related at all? Oh darn...

 

[TridusSWTOR]

Legacy level or character level doesn't change the argument.. Bottom line is, if you want the stats that the datacrons give then people need to go out and get them.. If they don't want to, then fine.. Nobody says you have to.. You can go without the stats..

 

But adding anything legacy is a loss of game content.. Which is bad for an MMO..

 

I mean look at the post above this one.. Any thought there for he game itself or other players?? None that I could see..

 

You all seem to forget about the actual changes to the game and how it effects other players.. All I hear is 'I did it X number of times before, I don't want to do it again..' That is being lazy.. Even in explanation.. What about the people that haven't?? You talk about legacy level?? So what?? That doesn't require getting the datacrons even once... Talk about promoting laziness.. Legacy level is easy to get.. You get legacy points doing almost anything.. Most people get that just from leveling their alts.. Not exactly hard.. So now you want people to just buy all the datacrons?? I don't think so..

 

Seriously.. Let's not destroy this game with people's desire not to play it..

 

So you saw countless post how tedious people think getting datacrons are. Hence, it's not something they desire to do.

 

Which pretty much means that you support ways for people not to have the desire to play this game. From a business standpoint, you are not healthy for the game, since you are activity telling people to play something else if they don't do something you agree with.

 

Everyone that posted in favor of a legacy wide datacron option has driven home the point that it doesn't interfere with anyone's game-play but there own.(which is true beyond a doubt). They never suggested people leave the game.

 

So while you claim you are "helping" the game and the desire to play it, you are the only one telling people to leave it. So in turn, you are a liar, through and through.

 

I have still yet to hear a reasonable argument as to why a legacy datacron option shouldn't be added.

[SWGEvictee]

Please... explain to me this "content" you speak of.

And no, it's not pay to win. The stats gained from all of the datacrons is less then the stats on a single piece of high-end PvE gear. Several times less, even. As both sides have stated, the impact it plays is insignificant.

 

And because I know it's coming from someone: "Well then, if it's so insignificant, you don't need it then, do you?"

No... we don't. We're certainly not going to /quit (or /ragequit) if we don't get it. But it was a "nice QoL" improvement for us that we're suggesting.

It doesn't matter how significant they total up to be. Paying cash money for them instead of earning them in game is pay to win. However, to address the point if they are so insignificant why are people so desperate to be able to pay hard earned money to get them. If they were truly insignificant no one would want to waste money on them.

 

[TridusSWTOR]

I am still vehemently opposed to anything other than the codex entries bring shared across legacy. And even that isn't a good idea as seeing which codex entries you don't have tells you which datacrons you still need.

 

No, if your character wants the magical attribute boost from the strange glowing cube they need to go visit it themselves.

 

Just wondering.

 

How does a person having datacrons ruin your gameplay in anyway?

 

Do you ask before you go into a group/op if people got all their datacrons? What if some didn't have it? What if some did? How would this change how you would react.

 

I have 13 level 55's and I got all datacrons(Yes all) on 10 of them. I'm kinda tired of doing them for all my characters.

 

So again, tell me how me having datacrons on some characters and not on some character affects you.