Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

[shyroman]

but I'd bet the number of pro-premade posters in this thread (and every other thread about premades) outnumber the others by a large factor.

 

That should tell you something about how more people feel then. I know most people don't visit the forums, but of the people that care enough to participate in the forums, if more people are "pro-premade" then the "anti-premade" is the minority and should stop thinking that bioware should cater to what they say, because as you said

You need to learn to business

Bioware is a business and should cater to the majority.

[Vember]

That should tell you something about how more people feel then. I know most people don't visit the forums, but of the people that care enough to participate in the forums, if more people are "pro-premade" then the "anti-premade" is the minority and should stop thinking that bioware should cater to what they say, because as you said

 

Bioware is a business and should cater to the majority.

 

Its always the same people in these threads. I can promise you, which common sense already does, that casual solo players are the vast majority. So you are absolutely correct.

[shyroman]

Its always the same people in these threads. I can promise you, which common sense already does, that casual solo players are the vast majority. So you are absolutely correct.

 

right, so people just need to stop complaining about premades and move on.

[Unperson]

I bolded the important part.

 

You are right when you state that they are perceived advantages. Because unlike your comparison, the advantages are available to all.

 

What is available to 1 player, is available to all players. You can not hold one group accountable if another group decides to not make use of what is available to them.

 

Ah, but perception shapes our world in the absence of hard data and controlled trials (and even then...). Not to mention that the advantages aren't available to everyone, all the time. I already asked this in a previous post: what happens if I want to queue with my buddies but there are 5 of us? The answer I got was "who cares, it's regs".

 

If people don't think they will have a fair shot at winning with only skill being the determining factor, they will be less inclined to participate once their conquest/daily is done. Yes, an inordinate amount of skill may offset any advantages brought by voice chat and hand picked compositions. However, assuming players of equal skill, a premade will have an advantage. And the solution cannot be "L2P" because premaders will also L2P and get better with time. You cannot assume that players on either side will be more skilled, but you can prevent uneven starting conditions. Again, perception.

 

 

So what you want is better matchmaking?

 

Random is random though. If, for instance you remove groups of 4 from the the unranked queue you are leaving yourself at the hands of rng. This won't make the game fairer you would effectively make grouping up with one friend, casual or pvp groups obsolete in unranked pop. I don't see that as particularly healthy for the game at all.

 

Half a pre is beneficial to the team of pugs they get put with if it has a balanced comp, so there is a big clue to people that complain about premades ruining their experience. Shock/horror teaming up with people - be it another player or several is a good idea in this game. So I would say to those people do it then. But don't complain about other people if you insist on leaving yourselves to the mercy of random matchmaking. That is just so stupid.

 

The whole game content encourages people to group - it's an mmo. You are meant to do this, 4 man premades are helpful to pugs as much as they can face roll the opposition. It puts matchmaking in the hands of the players if more people actually chose to do it instead of ************ about it on the forums. Regs serve as a casual playground with no penalty for leaving and rejoining. There is no issue, if people can't win a single warzone they are simply awful and there is no amount of queue adjustment bioware can make to make **** people better at the game. That is down to the player and the choices they make.

 

If people refuse to use the same tools and options EVERYONE in the game can use what can you say to that? That is their choice. These threads are just ridiculous and nothing will ever change simply because they are so redundant and silly.

 

Yes, I'd like better matchmaking, though I would settle for *any* matchmaking. And possibly also integrated voice chat. I played DDO for a long time and the VC there worked just fine to coordinate perfect strangers. Bio, Y U NO MAKE VC?!

 

With better matchmaking I'd be more inclined to respec heal/tank in some of my characters and queue up, much like I do for PVE content. As it stands, I don't really see the point because the composition is completely out of my hands and queue times are exactly the same. No guarantees that having heal/tank preferred (not necessarily reserved) slots would result in balanced comps but it would do away with stupid **** like 4 healers on one side and none on the other in same faction matches.

 

One step at a time...

[shyroman]

If people don't think they will have a fair shot at winning with only skill being the determining factor, they will be less inclined to participate once their conquest/daily is done. Yes, an inordinate amount of skill may offset any advantages brought by voice chat and hand picked compositions. However, assuming players of equal skill, a premade will have an advantage. And the solution cannot be "L2P" because premaders will also L2P and get better with time. You cannot assume that players on either side will be more skilled, but you can prevent uneven starting conditions. Again, perception.

 

And you also can't assume that premades use voice chat and have perfect comps, some do but not all of them. I've been in premades with some of the best players on my server, and during regs, nobody is talking about the game, they're all talking about random **** that happening in the world. It isn't voice chat or group comp that gives them a large advantage, it's that they're better than others, which is a simple thing to cut down on.

[Vember]

right, so people just need to stop complaining about premades and move on.

 

Or you could just get used to these threads, because they're not going away.

[shyroman]

Or you could just get used to these threads, because they're not going away.

 

I got used to them, but now I've gotten tired of them.

Edited September 11, 2014 by shyroman

[Unperson]

And you also can't assume that premades use voice chat and have perfect comps, some do but not all of them. I've been in premades with some of the best players on my server, and during regs, nobody is talking about the game, they're all talking about random **** that happening in the world. It isn't voice chat or group comp that gives them a large advantage, it's that they're better than others, which is a simple thing to cut down on.

 

I'm not assuming anything. I'm specifically talking about the cases where this does in fact happen and how this is an issue. Seriously, I've already explained this several times. The issue is blown out of proportion, but it's there. Ask people whether they think terrorists or stairs pose a greater threat to their lives, and the answers you'll get won't match what statistics say. And if this **** is hurting the population by removing potential players from the queues, it's a bad thing™.

 

As for your experiences in premades where you queue up as 4 tanks and spend the whole match discussing the finer points of Heidegger's philosophy, good for you. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Unless you have access to Bio's metrics, your claim that this scenario never actually happens is as unfounded as someone else's claim that it happens all the time. And if you do have access to the data, by all means share and put this to rest forever.

[shyroman]

I'm not assuming anything. I'm specifically talking about the cases where this does in fact happen and how this is an issue. Seriously, I've already explained this several times. The issue is blown out of proportion, but it's there. Ask people whether they think terrorists or stairs pose a greater threat to their lives, and the answers you'll get won't match what statistics say. And if this **** is hurting the population by removing potential players from the queues, it's a bad thing™.

 

As for your experiences in premades where you queue up as 4 tanks and spend the whole match discussing the finer points of Heidegger's philosophy, good for you. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. Unless you have access to Bio's metrics, your claim that this scenario never actually happens is as unfounded as someone else's claim that it happens all the time. And if you do have access to the data, by all means share and put this to rest forever.

 

I never claimed that it never happens, in fact, in my post i even said that some people do in fact use voice comms and perfect comps. Queue up as 4 tanks? no, i main a sorc healer in pvp so it's usually me and 2-3 other dps, i rarely have a tank. Lots of times i don't even have 4 people in my group, lots of times it's 3. And i know your just trolling now with Heidegger's philosophy, last time i checked that's not current. I could also say what you quoted to you, what do you have that shows that premades are a problem? What evidence do you have that warrants a change in the current system. It lies on the person challenging the system to provide initial evidence. Once you provide evidence, then it is up to me to provide my own to refute your point.

[Darkshadz]

You really should stop bro, your ability to miss the point entirely is uncanny. Or you are attempting to troll by starting discussions that deflect away from the true debate. In that case its me who has missed the point. Either way, relax bud.... Bioware won't ever change a thing.

 

I'll expand on what I ment, even though it had no revelance on what we were even talking about(think unimportant tangent).

 

As a player who got his start on FPS's, gear grind in PVP has always been something I found as odd. It is a power advantage given based on time played. Why would anyone who PVP's need/want that? True PVP is based on skill, not how many hours you invested into the game.. that is, at best PVE bleedthru... at worse, carebear mechanics.

 

PVP rewards should be purely cosmetic. Period. But that is an argument for another day.... preferably in the design stage, not two years into a game.

 

It doesn't take very long to get your full obroan set so what's your point? You can farm comms before lvl 55 on top of that. It would be great if they could remove the cap on comms since you can "dodge" it by buying/refunding pvp weapons though. But for those who prefer waiting at lvl 55 to farm comms, they can be competitive with ilvl 156 gear, like I said in my previous post. There's always Guild wars 2 if you hate grinding for your gear. Good premades (and players) in SWTOR usually win because they are good, not because they have better gear, BRO.

 

Or you could just get used to these threads, because they're not going away.

 

Get used to be called a bad player, then.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Darkshadz

[Pistols]

Or you could just get used to these threads, because they're not going away.

 

And I guess you could get used to it never changing.

 

SNAP!

[TUXs]

Or you could just get used to these threads, because they're not going away.

Get used to frustration, because grouping is what people do in MMOs.

[foxmob]

Get used to frustration, because grouping is what people do in MMOs.

 

yes. and now, apparently, they group together and decorate their new SIMS-style domicile.

[Zoom_VI]

LOL

 

If premades couldn't farm pugs, 90% of them would just quit the game altogether. Premades are the haven of the traditionally bad player who needs 3 other people + voice chat to survive.

 

I would really like to know premades can ever win if they are always comprised of "traditionally bad players." I mean loading four out of eight of your team with bad players seems like it would always lead to losing.

 

This is why I dislike the premade QQ threads, they are almost always built on bad logic, and fallacies.

[Vember]

Get used to frustration, because grouping is what people do in MMOs.

 

Nobody has said you shouldnt' group. What we're saying is stop being a lady part and take your group to ranked

 

Get used to be called a bad player, then.

 

My personal skill or lack thereof has no relevance to the topic at hand.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Vember

[Darkshadz]

Nobody has said you shouldnt' group. What we're saying is stop being a lady part and take your group to ranked

 

 

 

My personal skill or lack thereof has no relevance to the topic at hand. Your intelligence, on the other hand, directly affects the outcome of some parts of this discussion.

 

Ok and where are lvl 10-54 who want to group with their friends suppposed to go?

 

My personal skill or lack thereof has no relevance to the topic at hand.

 

Yes it does, wether you want it or not.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Darkshadz

[Vember]

Ok and where are lvl 10-54 who want to group with their friends suppposed to go?

 

Flashpoints?

[Raansu]

Nobody has said you shouldnt' group. What we're saying is stop being a lady part and take your group to ranked

 

And what about people that don't like arenas or are casual and don't want to do ranked? Seriously, this argument can go both ways. Oh, and what about the people in 2 man groups? Or 3 man groups? No one seems to want to answer that question.

 

Honestly at the end of the day the current system is fine. If you're facing a premade, chances are your team has one to, they just might be terrible players. I see premades more as a premade than I do queueing solo.

 

My personal skill or lack thereof has no relevance to the topic at hand.

 

Has a lot to do with it. If half the pugs in this game bothered to learn how to keybind, stop backpeddling, FOCUS THE MARKED TARGET and in general do more than a pathetic 200k damage.....Premades WOULD NOT be a problem. Seriously, remove premades and the same issues will occur. Good players will queue solo and still destroy bad players. Pug experience wont change until they bother to improve themselves.

 

At the very least pugs could learn to keybind and stop clicking everything....That would be a huge jump in improvement right there.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Raansu

[Darkshadz]

Flashpoints?

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!! This thread is getting better everyday it seems. Brilliant suggestion, Vember XD

[TUXs]

Nobody has said you shouldnt' group. What we're saying is stop being a lady part and take your group to ranked

My whole 2 person "premade"? Or my 2 commando + Sage DPS group?

 

I'll be honest - I'm not good enough for ranked. I'd get my *** handed to me. I think I'm a good player, but I know the guys who play ranked would destroy me with ease. I admire them...but there's no way in hell I can compete with them. I just like to PvP with whoever is on with me...or solo, I do it either way and, unlike you, I don't complain.

[Jimmajamma]

You need to learn to business

 

Do you offer seminars? Please, Vember, teach us to business.

[Vember]

And what about people that don't like arenas or are casual and don't want to do ranked? Seriously, this argument can go both ways. Oh, and what about the people in 2 man groups? Or 3 man groups? No one seems to want to answer that question.

 

Honestly at the end of the day the current system is fine. If you're facing a premade, chances are your team has one to, they just might be terrible players. I see premades more as a premade than I do queueing solo.

 

 

 

Has a lot to do with it. If half the pugs in this game bothered to learn how to keybind, stop backpeddling, FOCUS THE MARKED TARGET and in general do more than a pathetic 200k damage.....Premades WOULD NOT be a problem. Seriously, remove premades and the same issues will occur. Good players will queue solo and still destroy bad players. Pug experience wont change until they bother to improve themselves.

 

At the very least pugs could learn to keybind and stop clicking everything....That would be a huge jump in improvement right there.

 

No pug can take on voice coordinated groups with perfect team composition, its an advantage that pugs don't have. Hence why these types of groups should be in ranked against other voice coordinated groups with perfect team composition. Which is where you should be unless you're afraid of losing. Pugs aren't perfect, which is why pugs should be playing against other pugs. Premades should be playing against other premades. Premades farming pug queues are carebears, plain and simple, and requires no skill whatsoever. Like I said before, premadeing in pug queues is a crutch for bads.

[Vember]

Do you offer seminars? Please, Vember, teach us to business.

 

Ok, first simple tenant: Don't drive away the majority by catering to the minority. Two things will drive people away from pvp quicker than anything else: imbalanced classes, and premades in pug queues, the two biggest hot topics on every pvp forum of every mmo that's ever had instanced pvp.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Vember

[Darkshadz]

Ok, first simple tenant: Don't drive away the majority by catering to the minority. Two things will drive people away from pvp quicker than anything else: imbalanced classes, and premades in pug queues, the two biggest hot topics on every pvp forum of every mmo that's ever had instanced pvp.

 

What tells you that the majority of the playerbase don't like facing half-premades and are quitting SWTOR because of that?

Edited September 11, 2014 by Darkshadz

[Raansu]

No pug can take on voice coordinated groups with perfect team composition, its an advantage that pugs don't have. Hence why these types of groups should be in ranked against other voice coordinated groups with perfect team composition. Which is where you should be unless you're afraid of losing. Pugs aren't perfect, which is why pugs should be playing against other pugs. Premades should be playing against other premades. Premades farming pug queues are carebears, plain and simple, and requires no skill whatsoever. Like I said before, premadeing in pug queues is a crutch for bads.

 

Amazing how you avoided the main question. Are you saying that most of the time where I just run with me and one other person that we should be thrown into a ranked queue? Come on now.

 

Seriously though, most premades are not "perfect comp." Not only is that impossible to do with a 4 man group in an 8 man team, but most at minimum just bring a healer and run 3 dps. Hell the other night I was running in a 4 dps group. Again, its just regs, stop taking it so seriously. Chances are you are running against mostly pug teams that are just better than you and hitting the occasional premade

 

Also, because I find it funny.

 

Like I said before, premadeing in pug queues is a crutch for bads.

 

From earlier in the thread.

 

Yep, you're right, I totally can't

 

All 10 of those screenshots was me solo queuing over the course of the weekend.

 

I came across one premade out of all those matches, and it was a win....sooooo ya. The whining is just you being a terrible player that needs to suck it up and get better or make some damn friends and run a group yourself. Seriously though, the premade "issue" is in your head.