On-line, Role-playing games

[mpdugas]

Personally, I'd subscribe to SWTOR (or WoW for that matter) if the solo game was appealing enough on its own.

 

Anything that boosts solo play experience works for everyone; that which focuses on end-game or group play affects a smaller number of subscribers.

 

The fact that these sorts of games have many players on-line simultaneously ( the MMO aspect) makes for a healthy supply of goodies for the GTN, which is a Good Thing.

 

I rarely want to group with others; it is my personal preference to play the game's challenges on my own.

 

It would be nice, however, if mmo-rpg developers would lose their "PvP-Big Instances" bias so that a solo player might, with effort equivalent to that of doing instances like Flashpoints, etc, be able to obtain gear at the comparable level of large-group-efforts.

 

I think this would go a long way to eliminating complaints about que-ing, ninja looting, and repetitious game play to seek that ever-elusive "loot drop". Your quest to get the better gear would always be ready for play.

 

Quite frankly, I am not suggesting that the end-game content change at all; for those of us who enjoy large-group efforts, these should continue as presently structured.

 

I am suggesting, however, that any development efforts that benefits the WHOLE subscriber base is worthy of developer time.

 

So, how about some HEROIC + 1 quests?

[Eillack]

I think MMO's just aren't for you in general.

[MrGreaterGood]

To even suggest that a player could or should get end game PvE or PvP gear by doing solo missions or objectives is not only naive, but simply stupid. MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online for a reason, to interact with groups of people and complete objectives as such. What makes SW:TOR so unique to other MMO games are the in depth story lines. These are simply a treat to players and not the driving experience to an MMO game, which this is.

 

I for one can honestly say that if I could get Dread Guard gear on my own with my companion, I would quit this game. I think what you are looking for is more of a Diablo 3 experience. Single player play with small parties optional, and has the GTN you seem to love.

[Foobert]

To even suggest that a player could or should get end game PvE or PvP gear by doing solo missions or objectives is not only naive, but simply stupid. MMO stands for Massively Multiplayer Online for a reason, to interact with groups of people and complete objectives as such. What makes SW:TOR so unique to other MMO games are the in depth story lines. These are simply a treat to players and not the driving experience to an MMO game, which this is.

 

I for one can honestly say that if I could get Dread Guard gear on my own with my companion, I would quit this game. I think what you are looking for is more of a Diablo 3 experience. Single player play with small parties optional, and has the GTN you seem to love.

 

I think the OP was hoping for a kind of KOTOR 4 (there's already plenty of single player content for it to be called KOTOR 3) which was the original Bioware vision they wanted for the expandable platform and not just a wannabe-WoW clone.

[simplius]

im fine with "elite group rewards" being better than others

group play is more demanding and time consuming

but the solo PVE IS THE CORE OF MMOs

this is how most players spend most of the time

this was the huge themepark, that made wow so big

i rarely group myself, but like having other players nearby

this game has too much group/heroic and too little solo pve

[Kalfear]

I think MMO's just aren't for you in general.

 

Gotta agree

[kirorx]

You know what you need....chat bubbles.

 

Its not that you dont want to play with other people its that interaction in this game is glued to the general chat channels and maybe a few commands or compalining during flashpoints and warzones.

 

You are not running into other players and making friends, this is because the interaction is hindered by the lack of chat bubbles.

 

Alot of older gamers dont notice this as much but new gamers do. When i played SWG talking to other players was a simple as just typing, here there are numerous channels and evern for me I had to figure it out because SWG did not have a general chat, in fact i thought that was some BETA TESTING THING when i first saw the general chat.

Edited October 9, 2012 by kirorx

[lklinga]

This game has the most solo player content I have seen in an MMO ever.

Class quests, planet quests, Bonus planet quests, Heroic 2's [yes if you gear your companion you can solo all of them]

It is actually very enjoyable solo experience and I do group with people for the Heroic 4s and Flashpoints

 

I think the state as it is now is fine.

Want shiny gear do Heroic 2's with companion takes more time and skill but perfectly doable.

 

Actually it is the group content amount that is lacking.

[lklinga]

You know what you need....chat bubbles.

 

Its not that you dont want to play with other people its that interaction in this game is glued to the general chat channels and maybe a few commands or compalining during flashpoints and warzones.

 

You are not running into other players and making friends, this is because the interection is hindered by the lack of chat bubbles.

 

Alot of older gamers dont notice this as much but new gamers do.

Chat bubbles are so 00's

[mpdugas]

Gotta love those tolerant replies; these first couple of answers to my original post are why grouping in most MMO's is so unpleasant; I sure would not help players like them.

 

Of course, it is not a question of "either-or"...my suggestion benefits everyone, not just the "PvP-group elitist crowd". To suggest that only group-players should get good rewards is elitist and selfish.

 

MMO isn't just about end-game groups, Pvp, Heroics and Flashpoints; it involves people to talk too, players that craft and sell gear, the rare-but-occasionally satisfying PUG that arises when someone politely asks for help, it is answers to questions that arise from other player experiences. it is that opportunity to toss a buff, a chance encounter where you might assist a doomed player to survive an unfortunate encounter going bad.

 

I don't dislike playing with others; I dislike elitism and snobbery, though.

 

There was, by way of example, a series of Heroic-like quests in WoW not too long ago, where solo players could get some pretty nice gear with some substantial effort. No one left the game because solo players could, with sustained effort, achieve results comparable to grouped players.

 

I just don't see why "grouping-elitism" should set the bar, but it always has; WoW and SWTOR are mired in that mind-set.

 

But, to the game developers who continue to try to please the fickle and noisy end-game elitists, I offer this warning:

 

if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

 

So how about a little love for the WHOLE player base?

[Kalfear]

You know what you need....chat bubbles.

 

Its not that you dont want to play with other people its that interaction in this game is glued to the general chat channels and maybe a few commands or compalining during flashpoints and warzones.

 

You are not running into other players and making friends, this is because the interaction is hindered by the lack of chat bubbles.

 

Alot of older gamers dont notice this as much but new gamers do. When i played SWG talking to other players was a simple as just typing, here there are numerous channels and evern for me I had to figure it out because SWG did not have a general chat, in fact i thought that was some BETA TESTING THING when i first saw the general chat.

 

You know Kirox, im a old time gamer

 

I started in NWN on AOL 21 years ago

Played Realms and DSO and MEridian 59 and eventually UO (first MMORPG with chat bubbles) and I just dont get where you all get this idea chat bubbles increase conversations and interaction

 

Pretty much any gamer over the years ive known (and that includes most players in SWG over the years) has turned chat bubbles off and just used the chat boxes with different chat functions in diff colors (in TOR its like /ops, /g. /officer. ect)

 

It always strikes me as so weird that you that support chat bubbles (huge minority btw when you look at all the games and gamers that play in the chat room function thats been the standard for around ohhhh 21 years) say chat room hurts interaction.

 

/shrug, I just dont get it. Even when I played SWG. EVERYONE I KNEW turned the bubbles option off and played from the chat box.

 

I really dont get how you cant maintain interaction in the industry standard chat box interface.

 

/g = guild

/say = speak out loud to those around you (IE: same as chat bubbles but dont spam a screen like a archie comic book)

/p = group chat

/ops = ops group chat

/1 = general chat

and so many more

Give each chat a different color and how can you get confused?

 

I dont get it and dont think its the OPs issue!

 

I think the OP just wants a single player experience and need to find single player games rather then MMORPGs.

I get his request tho why hes playing MMORPGs looking for that

he wants a single player game with 100s and 100s of hours of original play rather then the standard 10 hours to 30 hours that most single player games offer up!

 

And I dont disagree with his request, Id love that as well

 

but he will not find it in MMORPGs is all.

[simplius]

"100s of hours of original play"",,,let me see,,that would be wow,,the most successful MMO ever

 

there is ur answer

[MrGreaterGood]

Since I fall into the "first couple of posts" category, I offer you this: do not judge a book by its cover. How I respond on a forum and how I respond on the game itself could be (and definitely is) completely different. When you quote that WoW had missions that gave "pretty nice gear" through solo effort, is not at all the same as asking for the top tier in this game which has a limited amount.

 

For one, I think you really do not understand what the gear is for to begin with. Top tier gear is literally designed to do the most extreme end game content for pve. Dread Guard gear is there to make Terror from Beyond an easier experience, even though no matter what the gear level you have you need to be on top of your game.

 

PvP War Hero gear is there for the "snobby and hardcore" people to have something earned for their time invested. They give you plenty of solo ways to get some decent gear with farming chests on Tattooine or merely doing the daily quests for faster comms earned.

 

Do you feel you are missing out on content because you cannot get such gear? The Story Mode levels of all content allow for you to enjoy the story experience without having to be totally precise with your game play. They have really tailored to all people's needs this way, as Story mode flashpoints are also easy to complete for the content. They give you a free full set of Recruit gear so that you are not at a total disadvantage when hitting level 50 if you would like to play with the full War Hero guys.

 

But what you are asking for, is a single player content that allows access to top tier gear. Even if it is indirectly, you want comparable stats to the best gear in the game and for what? There is not one thing to do at level 50 on your own that requires the best gear to have. You are basically ripping on BioWare for the sole structure of their game. As for WoW doing this, how many different tiers of gear do they have by now? Dread Guard is not a month old, I believe Campaign is not even 6 months old.

 

Instead of ripping on BioWare for creating what you call a generic MMO, you should search for something that meets your requests. Diablo 3 was a legitimate suggestion as it basically outlines your playing style, as does GW2 in its own way. But to look down on SWTOR, which has one of the single greatest single player experiences of any MMO today, for not offering the same rewards to single player people as the MMO style people the game was intended for is simply not fair.

 

Everything you listed as being fun to do to you in your latest post, is the entire leveling experience of every character in the game which as I mentioned above is already very unique to swtor. Simply because it ends for now does not mean they do not plan to expand the single play story experience, but in no way should it offer you equality to the best gear in the game.

Edited October 9, 2012 by MrGreaterGood

[simplius]

indeed,,its so unique, that most players give up and leave:rolleyes:

its so good, that they started with 2 mio subs a year ago, and going F2P soon

 

FOR SPAAAARTAAAAA!!!!

[MrGreaterGood]

indeed,,its so unique, that most players give up and leave:rolleyes:

its so good, that they started with 2 mio subs a year ago, and going F2P soon

 

FOR SPAAAARTAAAAA!!!!

 

But luckily it is the forums that keep you occupied, to spread relevance and insight.

[Kalfear]

"100s of hours of original play"",,,let me see,,that would be wow,,the most successful MMO ever

 

there is ur answer

 

actually that was ruled out and why in opening post and verified in multipl;e posts after wards

 

again I say

 

READ MORE

POST LESS

[mpdugas]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply; you make many good points, which I respect.

 

I'm an old-time MMO player myself, having run SWG from the onset until it was destroyed by the developers; I played WoW until the group-focus made it impossible for me to advance my character further (e.g BoP Chaos Orbs).

 

Granted, I do not have as much time over my keyboard as some others who have posted here, but 12 years isn't a bad run, either.

 

I get the connection between top-tier gear and the end-game grouping instances.

 

However, the reasoning circularity of its approach is the irrational heart of the game: one must group to get high gear so one can play high-level content so one can get high-level gear (rinse and repeat)...this is not a SWTOR-only phenomenon.

 

The normal PvE world is somewhat simpler to play, however, if your gear is top-tier; the completion of Dailies would be much quicker, I would imagine. That's just a simple example.

 

It is simply the gross mismatch between the capabilities of my best-equipped character and the capabilities of the high-tier folks that makes non-group, PvE play unnecessarily harder for me as a solo player.

 

When the level cap is raised, solo players will be starting at a distinct disadvantage.

 

It is simply that there is no compelling need for the grouping bias in an MMO. That which benefits a subset of the population seems to be less noteworthy than that which benefits all.

[Arlon_Nabarlly]

I think the game has made a huge effort (more than most, possibly any, other MMO has) to cater to single-player base. Many people think this catering to single-player has hurt it's stance among core MMO players. The fact is they made a great effort to appeal to your case and the fact that you are still willing to play an MMO despite your dislike of multi-player play is proof of that.

 

Secondly, pay attention to what you are buying. I'm going to guess that you knew going into the game that you didn't like MMOs and that you knew this game was an MMO. Your argument would be like buying an economy car cause you like the gas mileage but then complaining to the manufacture that there's not enough room to haul stuff with. You knew that was a limitation going in and you chose to buy it.

 

The one part I do agree with is that it's sad that there's so much elitism and nastiness in group play, especially between the hardcore and the casual player.

 

Note, I don't mean this post to be rude and I hope you don't take it as such. My point is just to show you that I think you are being a little unfair and unreasonable. You can't please all the people all the time and that's especially true when you try to appeal to too large of an audience. I think Bioware may have bit off more then they can chew by trying to to appeal to MMO and single-players alike. They did a fair job, but neither side is 100% happy and I don't see that changing. I hope you continue to enjoy your gaming experience though, I'm sure they'll continue to put goodies in for the single-player crowd, but I wouldn't expect soloing flashpoints and operations though.

[MrGreaterGood]

To be fair can you call grouping a bias in an MMO? MMO by definition is group play. Sure they may add events that give special gear to single player people but should that gear be equal or even on the same level as gear earned in group play? What you are looking for is what your thread title implies, and online RPG. Not a MM Online RPG.

 

Which brings me to what my point was. Is it fair to bring down BioWare for doing it the "generic" way? From my experiences, MMO games are a grind once you get to the end game. The change you are asking for is not totally fair to the people that earned the gear the way it was intended. I would have no qualms in being able to purchase a version of gear comparable to Columi for some sort of comms such as Dailies. To get any gear comparable to what people have to work at endlessly is just not realistic.

 

A point of it not being realistic: if you could get the same level of gear from HM TfB doing dailies would you bang your head on the KB wiping or do it on your own the "easy" way. No one would have unique gear, finding groups for the hardest difficulty would be near impossible, and it takes out the entire end game time sink.

 

Whereas a game like Diablo 3 will let you progress through the majority of it's content. Some of it being very challenging, and allowing you to progress through it on different difficulties as your gear advance. This doesn't affect others as it would on SWTOR. It is just not its design. Someday they might have an event that allows you to get decent gear on your own, but it will still not be top tier. To say the game is worse off for it though... no way.

 

I hate to mention D3 so often because I don't even play that game anymore, but what you are looking for is a different play style. To ask them to incorporate that into this system would have nasty backlashes.

Edited October 9, 2012 by MrGreaterGood

[Kalfear]

See Mr, I dont think he is asking for D3 (I dont play it either but assuming it plays like D1 and D2)

 

I think (and he can correct me if im off base on this) what hes ultimately asking for is to play this game as KotOR3-12 but as a single player game.

 

So when it comes to ops contnet he pulls out his 2 companions (as in the KotOR game we used 2 companions rather then 1) and solos through the content!

 

He wants TOR, just in a single player context where he can see and do all the content!

And for that, hes willing to pay the monthly fee to do so

 

If you think about it, its not much different then the modern DLC for games but the initial game is much much larger and the company would have to work harder and faster to get the monthly DLC out to ensure people continued with their subscription.

 

Frankly speaking, if they offered that for KotOR or DA:O (not 2, a advancement of origins, I will not pay for DA2 style design) or even Mass Effect but expanded to TOR size, Id totally sign up for that. In a heart beat.

 

But again ill say TOR is not that game and never will be as giving away the ops gear and WH gear to a solo player who only solos diminishes the gear for the people that spend the time doing the ops in 8 man and 16 man groups.

 

Its two simular but yet vastly different products!

 

Thats how im reading the request anyways.

He wants the end game gear via soloing but soloing fir the end game gear as this product designed doesnt fit and simply cant be done.

You need a game where grouping is not a issue at all and thats single player games, plain and simple.

 

Or maybe im way off base

[CosmicKat]

 

I really dont get how you cant maintain interaction in the industry standard chat box interface.

 

 

Several things contribute to the poor interaction in this game.

 

Specifically with the interface:

- The default colors for /say and /general are the same. New people, and people who haven't changed this can't spot /say from /general.

- The /say range is insanely large. It's near impossible to be in a "social area" such as a cantina without hearing every single conversation going on in the place. This makes local chat very hard to follow. Imagine being in any bar or restaurant and being able to overhear every conversation in the place, it would be chaos.

- Nothing blocks speech. You can hear other people's conversations through walls and from a distance that would require yelling or a bullhorn in real life.

 

Non-specific to the interface:

- The game is primarily a solo game that gives players very little reason to ever interract with other players.

[well]

Gotta love those tolerant replies; these first couple of answers to my original post are why grouping in most MMO's is so unpleasant; I sure would not help players like them.

 

Of course, it is not a question of "either-or"...my suggestion benefits everyone, not just the "PvP-group elitist crowd". To suggest that only group-players should get good rewards is elitist and selfish.

 

MMO isn't just about end-game groups, Pvp, Heroics and Flashpoints; it involves people to talk too, players that craft and sell gear, the rare-but-occasionally satisfying PUG that arises when someone politely asks for help, it is answers to questions that arise from other player experiences. it is that opportunity to toss a buff, a chance encounter where you might assist a doomed player to survive an unfortunate encounter going bad.

 

I don't dislike playing with others; I dislike elitism and snobbery, though.

 

There was, by way of example, a series of Heroic-like quests in WoW not too long ago, where solo players could get some pretty nice gear with some substantial effort. No one left the game because solo players could, with sustained effort, achieve results comparable to grouped players.

 

I just don't see why "grouping-elitism" should set the bar, but it always has; WoW and SWTOR are mired in that mind-set.

 

But, to the game developers who continue to try to please the fickle and noisy end-game elitists, I offer this warning:

 

if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten.

 

So how about a little love for the WHOLE player base?

 

You expected different responses?There are more narcissistic people on this forum then controlfreaksareus.com .Their comprehension that different people may want to play the game other then the way they do is beyond their limited thinking abilities.I just picture Gollum from the Lord of the Rings.Some folks are so funny.The reason I don't group is because I don't want to be stuck with one of these folks from the forum.It would be good to have more solo type quests for end game.I don't think it will happen.

[well]

Several things contribute to the poor interaction in this game.

 

Specifically with the interface:

- The default colors for /say and /general are the same. New people, and people who haven't changed this can't spot /say from /general.

- The /say range is insanely large. It's near impossible to be in a "social area" such as a cantina without hearing every single conversation going on in the place. This makes local chat very hard to follow. Imagine being in any bar or restaurant and being able to overhear every conversation in the place, it would be chaos.

- Nothing blocks speech. You can hear other people's conversations through walls and from a distance that would require yelling or a bullhorn in real life.

 

Non-specific to the interface:

- The game is primarily a solo game that gives players very little reason to ever interract with other players.

 

The reason might be that you don't want to play in a group with some yutts.I PVP but I won't group in PVE except on rare occasion.Someone needs help ok but other than that and a few rare occasions I won't in PVE.Games are suppose to be about fun.It isn't fun to play with some folks who don't understand the basic concept of team work.I rather have someone who tries hard and isn't that good then some whining princess.

[Uluain]

Gotta love those tolerant replies; these first couple of answers to my original post are why grouping in most MMO's is so unpleasant; I sure would not help players like them.

 

Yep. Pretty much.

 

I don't want to have to group with children who don't have manners, who are abusive in chat, who do not take time to assure the group has a plan and think anonymity is their license to be a jerk.

 

There should be more ways to play at the end of the game than having to rely on the kindness of strangers.

[Gokkus]

I dont get it, what are you going to use Rakata gear for soloing?

 

Besides, every class quest is a Heroic 1+, what would be the difference with your version of a Heroic?

 

Yeah they could make some endgame solo flashpoint and minigames, that would be pretty nice, but apart from that, there is plenty of soloing to be done in this game...