Marqhill Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 So yeah, I'm well aware of the fact that as it regards DPS Rage is just plain superior in PvP. It's always been better for DPS but before there was some sort of parity. Rage did more damage but Vengeance had a decent balance of damage and utility that was pretty sweet if you knew what you were doing. Well... Rage may have gotten insanely better but Vengeance, excluding the nerf to pooled hatred, pretty much stayed the same. So... I mean, Vengeance is still able to put out the same amount of damage and utility that it was pretty much always able to do so while my Focus(Rage) Guardian is pretty my competitive main toon that I've almost completely optimized for Focus(Rage) I decided that my Juggernaut that I'm leveling for fun will be my fully optimized Vengeance Juggernaut. Which is actually interesting... because I'm wondering what's actually the best way to do that. Right now, I've actually got damn near a full set of war hero gear for my juggernaut except for the chest which is and all this gear will pretty much be ready for him by the time he hits 50. The thing that I'm doing a little differently this time around is I'm going to make sure that I'm stacking the highest possible amount of Strength on everything. With the 6% Strength increase in, the Sage buff, a Rakata Might stim and all the datacrons and fully augment my gear I would doing the math and the total Strength for my Juggernaut would be hovering somewhere around just shy of 2000 Strength. Probably a little less maybe but still quite a bit. Additionally what I've done is gather up a bunch of the enhancements that have 45 endurance as well. So I'm sacrificing a little bit of Crit or Power depending on the Enhancement but I'm gaining myself a significant deal more endurance per Enhancement. The reasoning for stacking up Endurance on the Enhancements is because of Enraged Defense and the 3% self heal. The more health you have in your pool the better it will be right? I won't have to worry too much about losing a little bit of Crit/Power here and there because of the amount of strength I'll have to make up the difference in damage/critical hit chance. I do still want to have some Crit/Surge and I don't have to worry about too much power because the War Hero relics will actually provide a huge boost in power and damage output. Anyway, I pretty much have all the gear ready but it's going to take me a couple weeks to finish everything up because I'm not trying to hit 50 on this character until I have 3500 ranked warzone comms and 2000 regular war zone comms. With that completely full I'll be able to buy my War Hero offhand and mainhand as soon as I hit level 50. In any case, this is mostly just me musing. I think that it's going to be pretty beastly though when I actually get it all up and running. I'll keep you posted and possibly throw up some screen shots once I have all the war hero gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnalisNailo Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I wouldn't sacrafice anything for Enraged Defense at all. I've played Vengeance for a long time now (though I did stop pvping after they changed from the battlemaster bags, my entire reason behind pvping was for the black-red crystal) and not once have I ever equated enraged defense as the reason for keeping me alive in a hairy situation. The self heals are not enough to offset any major damage (They are about equal to that of a tick from a sintanks harnessed darkness) the threat drop is minor in PVE and useless in PVP and the rage cost of activation and the continual drain screwed me over more times than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reli_BOON Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 correctly played, Enraged defense will never stop you from fully dpsing in Vengeance. Is it worth it stacking endurance for it? Probably not. Getting healed for 450 per tick instead of 430 will not save you. Also, stacking up on strength, i assume using the +64 str mods, will not yield more dmg. On the contrary, the loss in power is great enough to overcome the difference. The argument of STR vs POW for juggs only stands in favor of STR when it comes to augments. And that's just due to crit. Not dmg output. I personally feel comfortable at 19k-20k HP buffed. Feel free to play around with that to fit your own playstyle. Have fun mate. I believe in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 i believe in you. ftw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himeji_Endless Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Doesnt 2 points in Deafening Defense give 15% damage reduction when Enraged Defense is active for 15 secs combined w/ a WZ adrenal for 15% damage reduction give at least 10 secs of 30% damage reduction and a lil hp back? Thats kinda like a Bounty Hunter's blue bubble (25% DR for 12 secs.) ... of course there is a rage cost, but in the thick of battle, i've heard that rage isn't an issue for Vengeance? I usually won't pop it in a 1v1 and just use the adrenal, but in those big scrums, im sure that flat mitigation helps out. Edited October 2, 2012 by Himeji_Endless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marqhill Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Doesnt 2 points in Deafening Defense give 15% damage reduction when Enraged Defense is active for 15 secs combined w/ a WZ adrenal for 15% damage reduction give at least 10 secs of 30% damage reduction and a lil hp back? Thats kinda like a Bounty Hunter's blue bubble (25% DR for 12 secs.) ... of course there is a rage cost, but in the thick of battle, i've heard that rage isn't an issue for Vengeance? I usually won't pop it in a 1v1 and just use the adrenal, but in those big scrums, im sure that flat mitigation helps out. Exactly right sir. I've been playing this skill tree for a while and the extra 15% damage reduction is a life saver. Particularly when I'm carrying the ball in huttball and I've switched to Soresu form. At that point I'll have 67% damage reduction and a 3% self heal. If I max out my Endurance this could make me pretty darn tanky in addition to putting out solid damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teioh_White Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Oh, Enraged Defense is one of the best parts of Veng Jugg for pvp, either tanking or dps'n. When tanking, since it's not lame 25% of damage taken, like saberward, but instead, +15% onto current mitigation, it's a very solid shield against everything, bumping you up to 67% to hold off a node or carry a ball. In DPS, what the extra rage you get from AoE's, and getting CC'd, and with Shien being rage friendly, I generally can run it full time, putting me at 50% DR for 10/45 sec while losing barely any dps, plus a decent heal. The ability is 100% worthless outside Veng though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Oh, Enraged Defense is one of the best parts of Veng Jugg for pvp, either tanking or dps'n. When tanking, since it's not lame 25% of damage taken, like saberward, but instead, +15% onto current mitigation, it's a very solid shield against everything, bumping you up to 67% to hold off a node or carry a ball. In DPS, what the extra rage you get from AoE's, and getting CC'd, and with Shien being rage friendly, I generally can run it full time, putting me at 50% DR for 10/45 sec while losing barely any dps, plus a decent heal. The ability is 100% worthless outside Veng though. Yeah, that 15% damage reduction is a necessity, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalkingDinosaur Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Yeah, that 15% damage reduction is a necessity, Enraged Defense is more of a disadvantage than an advantage. The activation cost on this thing is already big and it drains focus with each hit you take to heal you for 3%. That 3% is so useless it can't even mitigate a DoT. I find my self to be in a worse situation when popping it. All the enemy has to do is slap you silly and you'll lose focus and that's something already on their mind especially if they're accompanied by their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 The self-heal is useless, the damage reduction isn't. Come on, 15% damage reduction for 10 seconds every 45 seconds? That's just amazing. It does have a very high cost but with a proper Vengeance/Vigilance build it shouldn't be much of an issue, I always swim in Focus in PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Himeji_Endless Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Dont forget that its an additional 15% on top of the 4% you get for talenting it ... combined w/ a wz adrenal, you're getting 34% which is like other classes bubbles ... the little sip of health is just an added bonus. I really dont think we have rage starvation issues when you're in a big fight, especially since i have 2pts in unyielding which gives me 4 rage everytime i get stunned, sleeped or knocked down. and we know how often that is! plus you can activate it when operatives/scoundrels get you out of stealth to help mitigate their burst. the 4 rage to activate it comes right as they knock u down ... perfect ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The self-heal is useless, the damage reduction isn't. Come on, 15% damage reduction for 10 seconds every 45 seconds? That's just amazing. It does have a very high cost but with a proper Vengeance/Vigilance build it shouldn't be much of an issue, I always swim in Focus in PvP. Actually just consider the "Self Heal" as additional DmG Mitigation..Since it only heals "On Hit" thats all it is...No different then having a shield...And the higher your health the more of each hit it absorbs....So it can be manipulated...It van be useful...just not great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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