Un-Intended Consequences

[Titanstroke]

Bioware, I am wondering did you decide to make Stealth which is already OP even more OP or was this just something that never entered your mind when you did another change to game dynamics. Stealthers already can hold a node against two other toons without a lot of effort, they are already premier at the continued stun. Now suddenly my AOE instant cast Forec Wave on my Sage as an example is now one direction rather than all around, in the past I could hit my hot key come out of stun and hit my Force Wave and probably knock the stealther out of stealth and into combat forcing that person to burn their immediate stealth button, only to be followed by my laying down another aoe right where they appeared to force the fight.

 

This meant that I had to have two instant AOEs out of cooldown to counter that player. While they only needed their only instant stealth cooldown to escape the first one. Now I have to guess which way did he go, which means a huge advantage to the player who is the stealther. At least if they are any good at all, add to that I have hit people in stealth with one of my instant casts got damage and not kicked them out of stealth. So either this is by plan and PvP needs to evolve into kill the stealth at all costs or this is again Bioware doing a Shoot, Ready, Aim and causing game issues when they didnt think it through.

 

Already, PvP is owned by first Gear, then communication, then heals, none of which the patch addressed. I still state that there needs to be a progressive PvP process where your gear decides the group rather than have some poor person who just finished levelling a toon and is in Recruit gear (the new gear isnt as good as advertised, but that is my opinion) against a full group in WH. Literally people go into groups now and if they see more than one less than decently geared player they drop that group fast, it isnt worth the frustration. While I am seeing less of the 8 people all from the same guild in PvP groups for Pugs which means they split into two groups of four and all hit the button at the same time, I am still seeing groups of four own PvP against Pug groups. Again something that a decent ranked PvP league would and still doesnt address.

 

So as we watch the wait time go up and the number of people who are playing dwindle I still see Bioware fiddling. Not to mention where the heck did the sudden huge lag spikes come from. I have meters on my lines and they are coming from the Game Servers not from my system, did catch one group using a variation of the old WoW PvP Lag Cheat and reported them to both Bioware and the FCC, since it was a denial of service issue under the Federal Rules but outside of that the lag has gotten lousy from the Game Server side after the last few patches/

[MidichIorian]

On the topic of people dropping, I had a premade consisting of four maras drop when they saw that they got two sorcs on their team. It's so awesome. I've also had people telling me that I should play on a mara instead despite that I had just managed to grab a top spot amongst the 6 maras on the opposite team in the post-game stats. I guess they were thinking that if I could survive long enough to do that damage in that envrioment and on a sorc I must be great on something that actually lasts more than 3 secs.

 

One would think that BW at some point would go "hmm, who does this tweak affect", but nah. They're only concerned about the total outcome and will totally disregard that the only ones affected by it are the classes that already are at the bottom of the "want list".

 

BALANCE AT ITS' FINEST

Edited September 29, 2012 by MidichIorian

[foxmob]

I've had lag issues in WZs as well. wasn't my comp. didn't have the line monitored though. this is pretty common behavior after a patch. expect another 3 weeks of patches for the patches and then patches for those patches.

[jmsutton]

I just gotta say that this is basically the worst strategy I've ever heard of.

 

In the past I could hit my hot key come out of stun and hit my Force Wave and probably knock the stealther out of stealth and into combat forcing that person to burn their immediate stealth button, only to be followed by my laying down another aoe right where they appeared to force the fight.

[Titanstroke]

When you are dealing with a class that can slip in and out of stealth and if they are all up has enough stuns to put you down before you can kill them between the slows and the stuns and the roots which allow them to run around to the back side constantly while you are slowing trying to target them, it is about the only strategy I have found to kill them. I can play games with Maras slow, root, stun, and continually kite them if everything is up, however for fighting with the agents, I am screwed and I watched them take out others as well. You have to force them into combat and get away from them as fast as you can, which amounts to coming up with a combination which takes them out of stealth and roots them and dots them.

 

I agree I wish there was another strategy that would work but this one works about 60% of the time to at least allow me to do dps on them. Oh and if my cooldowns are down Maras flat own me as well, which doesnt seem to happen to them when I am on them.

 

Sages, Socerers unless they are heals are almost not welcome in high level groups. This inspite of the fact that I turn in huge levels of dps and I am very good at focusing down and interupting the others healers. They also look at how many times I have died and I am extremely squishy compared to agents and maras or even Jugs if they have any heals at all.

 

If Agents are going to be given all of those gifts then they need to have light armor and be more squishy as well. High DPS should be balanced by the ability to be taken out quickly. That is not happening and until Bioware gets their act together (I havent seen that happen yet) I dont think they will address the more popular classes for PvP to bring them in line with other classes.

 

Oh by the way, if you have a better strategy then list it otherwise you are just voicing an opinion without any facts to back it up.

 

One last comment, Bioware thanks a bunch for basically killing mine and other guilds on the server. We went from 60 to we are lucky to have 5 or 6 on at a time. They havent gone to other Guilds they have left and gone to other games, the most prominent comments on the boards where they still post in our Guild Boards. Class balance in PvP, lack of new content, failure to address issues in a timely manner. So just in three aligned guilds I have watched it dwindle to almost nothing, the number of people who are un-Guilded are rising as well. I take these as symptoms of a dying game and I dont see Bioware doing much at all to fix it. MMO time has sped up from EQ and early WoW days, you can no longer sit and allow content to get old, you cannot wait to fix class quest issues or other issues until the next patch day. The Consumer has gotten to expect better and on other game platforms is getting better service. Right now I would say your customers are rating you as a 'Do Not Buy' or at best as a 'Wait and See' in stock nomenclature.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Titanstroke

[crunchbarry]

i had a level 11 sorc i was leveling and quit him because they changed overload, their coolest ability next to force lightning.

[jmsutton]

Sleep Dart only lasts 6 seconds and breaks on damage. There's no need to pop your CC breaker on it and then try and knock them out of stealth. If they stay stealthed they can't cap. If they attack you they lose stealth. As someone who plays a stealth class I love watching people pop their CC breaker on the in-stealth mez and then flail around with AOE, because it means I can then use my 8 second stun and cap without breaking a sweat.

[vimm]

i had a level 11 sorc i was leveling and quit him because they changed overload, their coolest ability next to force lightning.

 

Overload is much better now, lol.

 

Friggin' whiners.

[Shnoogen]

I get stunned by stealthies but never attached. so i just wait it out lol. not really a problem, and there are stealth classes in all mmo's most of them containing way more daunting dmg then swtor. Edited September 30, 2012 by Shnoogen
miss spelled

[Slicktime]

I get stunned by stealthies but never attached. so i just wait it out lol. not really a problem, and there are stealth classes in all mmo's most of them containing way more daunting dmg then swtor.

 

the fact that you said "never" attacked is false. operatives run up stun and stab everyone in the back and i mean everyone.

[crunchbarry]

Overload is much better now, lol.

 

Friggin' whiners.

 

i just don't see how that is possible. you are trading a 360 knockback for a 120 degree cone and saying its better because it goes off a milisecond faster? you're pretty ignorant just saying. the fact of the matter is i just have no interest in playing the class now. like i said, it -was- one of their coolest abilities. i liken changing overload to taking away mara's OH weapon. its like... "hey thats cool, oh wait, not" or maybe we should just get rid of leaps. i mean if we took the coolest ability away from each class this game would suck.

[aVmuse]

i just don't see how that is possible. you are trading a 360 knockback for a 120 degree cone and saying its better because it goes off a milisecond faster? you're pretty ignorant just saying. the fact of the matter is i just have no interest in playing the class now. like i said, it -was- one of their coolest abilities. i liken changing overload to taking away mara's OH weapon. its like... "hey thats cool, oh wait, not" or maybe we should just get rid of leaps. i mean if we took the coolest ability away from each class this game would suck.

 

Except they made overload faster because in some void star matches a bomb would get planted before the animation goes off, they also increased the distance that it knocked people back hence the change to a 120 degree cone. The downside is you have to aim it and as a guardian I don't really see what the problem is with aiming your knockback.

 

 

And with your changes to stuff that makes classes look different, is beyond ridiculous. For instance force leap is not a kb, so the only changes you could make are extending the range and moving the root, or shortening the range and increasing the root time. Also removing the OH weapon for a marauder would just make them a jug with medium armour, which if you had thought out is just pointless.

 

The game isn't balanced around the coolness of abilities either.

[crunchbarry]

pointless. exactly. the nerf to overload was pointless. they basically -did- take the ability out of the game. you play a guardian and you think this needed to be changed? i play a guardian. i feel bad for sorcs/sages. maybe they'll put force leap on a 1 minute cooldown.

[crunchbarry]

and i'd also like to mention you don't have to aim anything with a guardian. you target, face your opponent (240 los infront of you), and your KB will go off and be effective 100% of the time. this isn't modern warfare 3. people shouldn't be "aiming" things in this game. you can "aim" you KB so that your opponent can say... hit a pillar around a firepit on huttball and effectively be toast. i don't know about you but i'm not able to pull that off too often. opposing players typically like to do this thing called move around.

[Scotland]

When you are dealing with a class that can slip in and out of stealth and if they are all up has enough stuns to put you down before you can kill them between the slows and the stuns and the roots which allow them to run around to the back side constantly while you are slowing trying to target them, it is about the only strategy I have found to kill them.

 

I stopped reading after this part as i now see it as a l2play issue.

[bloopbleep]

I enjoy the change to overload/force wave and play a Sorc and Shadow.

[Daiyukie]

Bioware, I am wondering did you decide to make Stealth which is already OP even more OP or was this just something that never entered your mind when you did another change to game dynamics. Stealthers already can hold a node against two other toons without a lot of effort, they are already premier at the continued stun.

If it's so easy, get on your stealth class and hold the node 2v1 "without a lot of effort".

When you are dealing with a class that can slip in and out of stealth and if they are all up has enough stuns to put you down before you can kill them between the slows and the stuns and the roots which allow them to run around to the back side constantly while you are slowing trying to target them, it is about the only strategy I have found to kill them. I can play games with Maras slow, root, stun, and continually kite them if everything is up, however for fighting with the agents, I am screwed and I watched them take out others as well.

Stunlocking with one stun, like a boss! Those darn stunlocking Operatives.

You have to force them into combat and get away from them as fast as you can, which amounts to coming up with a combination which takes them out of stealth and roots them and dots them.

Oh, so you mean you have to pull the stealth class out of stealth before you can hit them? WHAT A CONCEPT, who'da thunk it?

[TheronFett]

If it's so easy, get on your stealth class and hold the node 2v1 "without a lot of effort"

 

Yeah, really. You can be a bad player and succeed with just about any other class. There's no room for error with a DPS Operative.

[Ycoga]

Sages, Socerers unless they are heals are almost not welcome in high level groups. This inspite of the fact that I turn in huge levels of dps and I am very good at focusing down and interupting the others healers. They also look at how many times I have died and I am extremely squishy compared to agents and maras or even Jugs if they have any heals at all.

My hybrid Seer/Telekinetics sage (StunBubble + Heal) generally has the lowest death rates in (pug) WZ's now, post 1.4.

 

<3

Edited October 1, 2012 by Ycoga

[vimm]

i just don't see how that is possible. you are trading a 360 knockback for a 120 degree cone and saying its better because it goes off a milisecond faster? you're pretty ignorant just saying. the fact of the matter is i just have no interest in playing the class now. like i said, it -was- one of their coolest abilities. i liken changing overload to taking away mara's OH weapon. its like... "hey thats cool, oh wait, not" or maybe we should just get rid of leaps. i mean if we took the coolest ability away from each class this game would suck.

 

It launches instantly, as opposed to having a second delay, as well as having a larger range, and push-back distance. I'm by no means ignorant.

[Kusanami]

I just don't care for the new overload animation. The Consular variant is a nice visual since it looks like a giant force push. Inquisitor its like I'm hop skipping to death.

[Sivlar]

I stopped reading after this part as i now see it as a l2play issue.

 

I stopped reading after he posted this....

 

If Agents are going to be given all of those gifts then they need to have light armor and be more squishy as well. High DPS should be balanced by the ability to be taken out quickly. That is not happening and until Bioware gets their act together (I havent seen that happen yet) I dont think they will address the more popular classes for PvP to bring them in line with other classes.

 

I guess he didn't get the memo that dps spec agents were nerfed into the ground ages ago. Agents are squishy, and don't put up as much burst as some other classes. Pre-1.1.1 maybe before AB/FR and Biochem was nerfed, but not now by any means.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Sivlar

[Titanstroke]

I have read all of this and I have been in multiple WZ where it is basically a stealth kill fest. My only chance to get them is to knock them out of stealth and off of me, slow and then kite them. With the new aoe knockback design I have to be facing them, to face them I have to stay alive and out of stun long enough to do it and I am slowed, while they are not slowed. I guess the guy who said L2P just wants to ignore basic physics and the fact that if you are any good at all as a stealth class you need to keep moving. As a caster class I need to keep up room and trade dps for distance, stealth basically puts me at an immediate disadvantage. Even for the Marauders I have heard them cuss long and loud about cant get on the stealth guy who is taking them out, to that I have to laugh. Then again from what I am seeing if I am willing to kite then Marauders are toast, big problem with that is that I also need to defend that area, so by design I am tethered there.

 

I also read the other post where the guy very knowledgably stated well I laugh at people who use their get out of stun ability on me. Guess what you are right now, I can't hot key it along with my aoe knockback figuring that I have a good chance of also hitting you with a second aoe. So under the current rules, I will let you almost take the node before I come out and go after you. If my dot on you would stay and it would bring you back out all of the time great, but a lot of the time it is dumping the dots as well considering that I have had someone completely dotted up and givng me health they stealth and suddenly nothing. Guys that is OP, especially if it isnt a long cool down ability they figured that out in WoW and cloak of shadows was the only way a rogue could pull that one off and it had a long cooldown so they thought long and hard before using it.

 

Personally I would like to see a PvP relic that gives you a second get out of stealth ability, that is about the only way I can see to balance this at all. Now to sit back and listen to all of the Fan Boys who are liking the easy way flame the heck out of me, when frankly they need to be given something that requires some skill and work. Kiting while staying close enough to drop an aoe on a door or node requires all of that and more.

[UGLYMRJ]

Overload is much better now, lol.

 

Friggin' whiners.

 

This...

 

I LOL every time I see a complaint about it. I wish everyone who complained got to keep their 1.3 sorc/sage.

[Technohic]

Maybe improving stealth scanning abilities of commando and merc would give them a reason to be included in warzones?

 

Would have to be very effective though.