This game could learn from SWG

[Kalifus]

Just for the record, you seem to be bullying at this point, or simply missing the other posters point.

 

The previous poster is rightly saying that the development of new, large scale systems for TOR will divert resources away from other potential new features. So, for example, the development of a JTL-style expansion would very likely divert resources away from the development of new planets, or new end game raids, therefore if I don't like JTL but do like raiding then such a decision by the BW/EA would negatively affect my gaming experience.

 

 

Personally, I don't like space combat so the development of a JTL-style expansion would likely divert resources away from activities I do want to see developed (open world pvp, new raids, bigger planets).

 

 

I am also aware, ofc, that companies like BW have multiple development teams that *can* work independantly of one another. However, the larger the project, the more teams are likely to be involved. So, developing something like player housing is unlikely to affect the development of new endgame raids because they are radically different types of content and thus likely to be different teams. However, developing JTL-style space combat is huge, requiring people from the world builder team, animators, mechanics, art teams etc which would definitely divert resources away from things like new raids, warzones, pvp revamps etc.

 

 

What you are asking for pretty much is the same old thing that is currently being implemented now, and in 2 months you will be crying for more of the same old same old, but if the people wanting 3-D space get what they want maybe they will be happy for 6 months, before crying for new content. Plus how selfish of a post can you make," I want what I want. If they make something you'll like then I'll be mad." There are plenty of people in this game that have different likes, so I don't see how it would be a bad thing for this game developing depth instead of the same old tired boring raids and flashpoints. This is an MMO for crying out loud, it needs depth and if we had it your way all it would be is the same old tiring crap. Then I can tell you this game won't be around for very much longer.

[Kalifus]

SWG was never a great game. It was a niche game with some interesting ideas. Sure, we can learn from them. We can also learn what not to do.

 

This also seems to be a niche response. See what I did thar.

[Ashivauto]

SWG was never a great game. It was a niche game with some interesting ideas. Sure, we can learn from them. We can also learn what not to do.

 

Well considering this game has lost more subs than it currently has as well drove away more players than swg ever had, we can honestly say its too late to learn what not to do... Its seems they got the "what not to do" down to a science

Edited September 3, 2012 by Ashivauto

[Jamus_Divinus]

SWG had some amazing features. Indepth player housing, 3D space sim, complex crafting. The game struggled not due to those features. If anything those features were the reason the game lasted 8 years.

 

I played over 10,000 hrs on my main toon alone. I had 10 accounts. Spent over $15,000 on SWG in close to 7 years. I saw many people leave in that time.

 

Not one left because they didn't like having the option to fully decorate over 32 different housing structures (from barns, swimming pools, bunkers, temples etc).

 

Not one left because they hated the crafting system ingame and disliked having the option to craft over 7,500 distinctly different items. Nor did one of them bemoan the dynamic resource hunting game which kept all crafters on their toes.

 

Not one left announcing their absolute hatred of the space game as their reason. The ability to fly over 24 different ships (differing in mechanics/handling aswell as appearance/performance) freely and engage in Space PvP sickened noone enough to cause them to quit.

 

They nearly all left due to an incredible lack of content. TOR has much more content now after 9 months than SWG had after 8 years...and lots of people think TOR's content level to be light.

 

To imply that the features I listed were the reason SWG didn't make it to a 9th year is ignorant to say the least. Those 3 features would improve TOR. The question is would they attract more people to the game compared to other possible features? That I do not know.

 

I personally would not want all 3 features in TOR. Not because I have an immature paranoia about 'OMG, not SWG2!!!!!' but because they are large scale projects that require quite a bit of development time and personally I don't think the game will be around in time to finish all 3.

 

Nah, my money's on the space sim upgrade. Regardless this whole thread is conjecture and so not to be taken too seriously right? :p

[Caelrie]

Or they could just include the best SWG ideas to make SWTOR better.......... no, no that idea is just pure maddness, of course.

 

Nobody can agree on which features those might be. The only nearly-universal one I've seen is the JTL space.

[MajikMyst]

There's absolutely no logic or truth in "SWG only had 3 subscribers therefore nothing in SWG could possibly improve SWTOR".

 

That works both ways.. There's absolutely no logic or truth in "SWG only had 3 subscribers therefore SWG has something that can improve SWTOR."

 

Bottom line is some people either didn't like SWG or don't like the ideas being suggested.. That is their right.. They don't need to qualify their likes and or dislikes anymore than you do.. Except to say that SWG was a horrible game and numbers show that you and others like you are the minority.. Now if you can just come to terms with that logic..

 

 

That doesn't mean that SWG has nothing to offer SWTOR.. But by popular opinion.. SWG doesn't have anything to offer SWTOR.. Do you understand the difference?? One is logic and one is opinion.. Since opinion is what controlled the number of subs for SWG.. Which do you think Bioware cares about?? Not logic.. Have a nice day..

Edited September 3, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Moaky]

The point is, this game needs more sandbox elements. The game does not need to turn into SWG. Just a few things to do outside of combat would be nice.

 

Swoop bike racing

Exploring/discovery of planets

Pazak games

RvR on Ilum would be amazing

3D space of course

dynamic events on planets

and so on

 

 

But the things you are asking for are reasonable. They fit into the context of TOR.

 

 

Making Owen gear rule, reserving land to build houses, and things like that totally do not fit the game BW sold us. It wold be very much a NGE total change of the game.

 

 

When folks mention exploring....there is some exploring in this game. It is called removing the fog of war. Of the items you listed, this one is by far the least likely to catch on IMO. Perhaps they could throw events into remote areas, but making folks travel huge distances to the juicy content doesnt make the game accessable to the common gamer. IMO we travel plenty as is.

 

 

If they do wanna get folks out in all areas, I say go with collection quests ala EQ2. Turn seeing the sights into a addictive easter egg hunt.

 

 

But stuff like what we are talking about can be found in various games. When folks try to push SWG, we remember the 100 some odd thousand players holding multiple subs to reach above the 200k mark. SWG just wasnt popular among MMO gamers then, and it definitely wouldnt be now either I say. The far majority of folks are gonna choose plenty of PVE content over housing/roleplay everytime IMO.

 

For a RP enthusiest, I am sure SWG was great.For those of us looking for PVE(which TOR centers on), it was a joke.

[Mallorik]

If bioware studied swg then id say they did learn something from swg, how to make an mmo flop with the best ip you could possibly have,

[Kyriosgundam]

How about the number/variety of pet/mounts vehicle/mounts? And even pet combat! I would really like to see this in swtor and would add a lot of gameplay. Imo I would also like to see player ship housing. Chat bubbles is also something which would increase the mmo feeling for this game rather than a really long singleplayer game

 

There is so much swtor can learn from swg its absurd they havent started implementing most of these features yet :(:(

 

When you reach level 25 with your initial character you can get a SPEEDER (aka mount) License so you can move around much faster when on the ground. Also unlike SWG SWTOR is STORY driven where as in SWG you could level up without even fighting (which turned me off to it from day 1). Also there are plenty of ways to get groups together other than Ops or PvP. I have had nothing but fun with this game since it launched and its the first MMO in a very longtime that has been a game play challenge for me since FF XI launched almost 10 yrs ago. Plus the majority of the features in SWG are not suited for TOR simply because of what I stated earlier. The Game is STORY centered (which is what drew me to the game in the first place). So would people stop comparing this game to Galaxies. Galaxies is gone and not coming back, if you dont like a Story centered MMO then obviously TOR is not for you reguardless of the fact your a Star Wars fan or not.

[LordArtemis]

Nostalgia is pretty much a cold, hard fact.

 

Must like most of the posts here. Especially mine when I'm speculating or just guessing...

Edited September 3, 2012 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

Just go play SWG emu the more support they get there the better that game will be.

 

Asking SWTOR to be more like SWG is like asking a housefly to get a job, pointless.

 

If you like SWG go play that it, if you like SWTOR play this, if you want both...go to college, learn to make video games and make it your self.

 

....he says to the 500k to 1.2 million players that have left the game

[Kalfear]

Not one left because they hated the crafting system ingame and disliked having the option to craft over 7,500 distinctly different items. Nor did one of them bemoan the dynamic resource hunting game which kept all crafters on their toes.

 

Not one left announcing their absolute hatred of the space game as their reason. The ability to fly over 24 different ships (differing in mechanics/handling aswell as appearance/performance) freely and engage in Space PvP sickened noone enough to cause them to quit.

 

They nearly all left due to an incredible lack of content. TOR has much more content now after 9 months than SWG had after 8 years...and lots of people think TOR's content level to be light.

 

To imply that the features I listed were the reason SWG didn't make it to a 9th year is ignorant to say the least. Those 3 features would improve TOR. The question is would they attract more people to the game compared to other possible features? That I do not know.

 

I personally would not want all 3 features in TOR. Not because I have an immature paranoia about 'OMG, not SWG2!!!!!' but because they are large scale projects that require quite a bit of development time and personally I don't think the game will be around in time to finish all 3.

 

Nah, my money's on the space sim upgrade. Regardless this whole thread is conjecture and so not to be taken too seriously right? :p

 

LOL, if you think people didnt quit over the SWG crafting system your in complete denial!

 

While some love the SWG crafting system there was far far far more that hated it because of how complexe it was.

Hated it because of having to run around moving havenstors every day/week

Hated it because of cost of mats when they didnt want to move havestors every day/week

Hated it because ...

 

List goes on and on

 

Yes some people loved SWG crafting

And for every 1 that diud there was easily 1000 that didnt!

 

Personally I hated it because it allowed a few to hold the server population hostage with outragiously inflated priced!

 

Give me DAoC crafting or EQ2 crafting any day of the week over SWG crafting.

 

The few should never hold the power over the many like SWG crafting allowed to happen!

 

And land masses should never be cluttered with houses and havestors like it was in UO and sWG so yeah, many people voiced their dislike of SWG housing as well because urban sprawl SUCKS

[Avatarless]

It's funny how SWG seems to have never had as much success as it has since it died.

 

While it was live people complained no end about it's pointless open worlds with nothing to do but build player cities. Those too died quickly. An open sandbox game driven by the players did not work, which is why they opted to try the NGE. That also was a total failure.

 

The initial skill system was good, but would NEVER work if you want balanced PVP. There was no end of problems, first with everyone rolling Teras Kasi, then with them all rolling Combat Medic once TK was nerfed. It was pointless even trying to implement pvp in SWG.

 

That being said, the most fun I've had in an MMO was in SWG, raiding Rebel player owned cities with 50-100 Imperial players all dressed as storm troopers. It was pointless, but looked pretty awesome.

[DevonDs]

Some of us don't enjoy grindy sandboxes....some people do....I personally really do enjoy this game as it is and don't want it to become SWG 2 ......

 

I do think it was a huge mistake to shut down SWG. The games are very different and the people that lvd SWG deserved to be able to play the game they loved....

 

As someone that loves this game and dreads the FTP I empathize with the sandboxers that loved SWG .

[WarbNull]

You need to build a bridge and get over your first MMO.

Who ever said it was my first MMO? I have played quite a few MMO's before it.

Plus...

If that is all you can say while quoting just a few things that I listed which I liked from SWG and would like to see in SWTOR, then you seem to be the one that needs to get over something. Your not really contributing to the thread. The least you could have done is given a rebutall to what I wanted to see in the game. Your reply did nothing but show a little rudeness.

[Moaky]

Who ever said it was my first MMO? I have played quite a few MMO's before it.

Plus...

If that is all you can say while quoting just a few things that I listed which I liked from SWG and would like to see in SWTOR, then you seem to be the one that needs to get over something. Your not really contributing to the thread. The least you could have done is given a rebutall to what I wanted to see in the game. Your reply did nothing but show a little rudeness.

 

And yet continually carrying on about that game in TORs forum isnt rude?

 

 

We get it....some of you guys liked that game. This game isnt SWG though, and I know for myself, I am beyond tired of you guys spamming the boards about turning this game into the PRECioUs.

 

 

By rights they need to move threads like this to suggestions, or create a SWG sub forum altogether.

[opriv]

And yet continually carrying on about that game in TORs forum isnt rude?

 

 

We get it....some of you guys liked that game. This game isnt SWG though, and I know for myself, I am beyond tired of you guys spamming the boards about turning this game into the PRECioUs.

 

 

By rights they need to move threads like this to suggestions, or create a SWG sub forum altogether.

 

If you don't like it, don't read it. What we do know is that SWTOR is in the ICU with the hospital staff scrambling to get a crash crash cart to it's bedside. I love the core of SWTOR but it is bare bones. Guess what, this game has to change. Players have voted with their feet and have chosen to walk away. I don't like it, but it's the cold hard fact.

 

What do we do from here? If the game is a solid themepark and thempark is not working, the alternative is to add some hybrid elements of sandbox. Or.... we can continue in the same downward direction.

 

I am a huge fan of this game, but after 5 months of no content updates I see the handwriting on the wall. SWG at least offers a template of what might attract a niche market of 300k players to support this game long term. Can any of you offer a better market to capitalize on that has real metric data to support it?

[Vandicus]

If you don't like it, don't read it. What we do know is that SWTOR is in the ICU with the hospital staff scrambling to get a crash crash cart to it's bedside. I love the core of SWTOR but it is bare bones. Guess what, this game has to change. Players have voted with their feet and have chosen to walk away. I don't like it, but it's the cold hard fact.

 

What do we do from here? If the game is a solid themepark and thempark is not working, the alternative is to add some hybrid elements of sandbox. Or.... we can continue in the same downward direction.

 

I am a huge fan of this game, but after 5 months of no content updates I see the handwriting on the wall. SWG at least offers a template of what might attract a niche market of 300k players to support this game long term. Can any of you offer a better market to capitalize on that has real metric data to support it?

 

SWG only attracted 100k players long term.

 

The largest sandbox on the market, EVE is hovering around 350k, perhaps less than half of the sub population SWTOR currently has. SWTOR would be unlikely to lure many of those players over by adopting a small handful of sandbox elements.

 

F2P will likely attract more players. Metric data from other themepark MMOs that went F2P support this. Google LoTRO or DDO if you want to learn about their populations.

 

Most of the subscription MMOs in recent years have had attrition rates similar to SWTOR, losing around 2/3rds of the population and then stabilizing. We probably haven't reached that 2/3rds point yet, which would be 560k subscribers.

 

You say that solid themepark is not working. This is not necessarily correct. It is perhaps more likely that a lack of sufficient themepark content is what causes some players to leave. You present a false choice between hybridization and failure. You ignore the potential of the game to maintain its sub numbers and grow in the number of players by providing additional amounts of themepark content.

[opriv]

SWG only attracted 100k players long term.

 

The largest sandbox on the market, EVE is hovering around 350k, perhaps less than half of the sub population SWTOR currently has. SWTOR would be unlikely to lure many of those players over by adopting a small handful of sandbox elements.

 

F2P will likely attract more players. Metric data from other themepark MMOs that went F2P support this. Google LoTRO or DDO if you want to learn about their populations.

 

Most of the subscription MMOs in recent years have had attrition rates similar to SWTOR, losing around 2/3rds of the population and then stabilizing. We probably haven't reached that 2/3rds point yet, which would be 560k subscribers.

 

You say that solid themepark is not working. This is not necessarily correct. It is perhaps more likely that a lack of sufficient themepark content is what causes some players to leave. You present a false choice between hybridization and failure. You ignore the potential of the game to maintain its sub numbers and grow in the number of players by providing additional amounts of themepark content.

 

Solid themepark is not working because they can't put out the content. It has been 5 months since EC and lost island. How many times can you run the same flashpoint before you can't stand the tedium of killing the same trash. The game is static, not dynamic. If they could maintain a themepark they content would be rolling out in a manner that maintains a player base. Hence, SWTOR's model of themepark= fail. Can they correct that, perhaps, but nothing they have done gives evidence that they can.

 

With all due respect, you present a false lack of a choice by maintaining that a directed player experience is the only path that will save this game. If your significant other came to you and said, "Our relationship is having some problems." you would be foolish to not try and make some changes.

[Jamus_Divinus]

LOL, if you think people didnt quit over the SWG crafting system your in complete denial!

 

While some love the SWG crafting system there was far far far more that hated it because of how complexe it was.

Hated it because of having to run around moving havenstors every day/week

Hated it because of cost of mats when they didnt want to move havestors every day/week

Hated it because ...

 

List goes on and on

 

Yes some people loved SWG crafting

And for every 1 that diud there was easily 1000 that didnt!

 

Personally I hated it because it allowed a few to hold the server population hostage with outragiously inflated priced!

 

Give me DAoC crafting or EQ2 crafting any day of the week over SWG crafting.

 

The few should never hold the power over the many like SWG crafting allowed to happen!

 

And land masses should never be cluttered with houses and havestors like it was in UO and sWG so yeah, many people voiced their dislike of SWG housing as well because urban sprawl SUCKS

 

You have problems reading? I usually don't bother replying to people who quote themselves in their signature as that alone speaks volumes...

 

I never thought SWG crafting was loved by all. I was saying in the 7 years I played I never had one friend/acquaintance leave because of the crafting complexity.

 

Also the player city feature was cool but had some problems. It was mainly for Mayors. However I never mentioned Player Cities. I specifically mentioned Player Housing and the ability to decorate/create the Star Wars home of your choosing.

 

Next time try reading what I wrote before you decide to reply to it

 

Good luck with your crusade though. Bang up job so far

[Shuno]

SWG never went free play, therefor = better game. Nuff said

 

Here is a picture! http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc232/Dekkameron/SWG%20Farstar/screenShot0225cropped.jpg

Edited September 4, 2012 by Shuno

[robotkar]

SWG never went free play, therefor = better game. Nuff said

 

Here is a picture! http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc232/Dekkameron/SWG%20Farstar/screenShot0225cropped.jpg

 

/saberDervish2;

/saberDervish2;

/saberSlash2;

 

[robotkar]

SWG never went free play, therefor = better game. Nuff said

 

Here is a picture! http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc232/Dekkameron/SWG%20Farstar/screenShot0225cropped.jpg

 

it was much more complex.

PRO

* crafting

* vendor system (shops)

* housing

* skill system

* more, various classes

* world pvp

* highend content

 

KONTRA

* combat system is dumb, in swtor is better

* graphics are worse, well it is a 10 years old game. It was good back then though.

* no quests

* endless rancor hunt (i loved my rancors though)

[MajikMyst]

it was much more complex.

PRO

 

KONTRA

* crafting

* vendor system (shops)

* housing

* skill system

* more, various classes

* world pvp

* highend content

* combat system is dumb, in swtor is better

* graphics are worse, well it is a 10 years old game. It was good back then though.

* no quests

* endless rancor hunt (i loved my rancors though)

 

There.. Fixed that for you.. See what a difference of opinion does??

[robotkar]

There.. Fixed that for you.. See what a difference of opinion does??

 

Imagine that you have been dirving a Ferrari, and then you would switch to a Renault

This is what we old SWG players feel if it comes to a comparision between SWTOR and SWG, but someone who has never driven a ferrari is doing absolutely well with a renault

 

feel me?