Arsenal without using Tracer

[LukeSaberRattler]

So I prefer Arsenal over Pyro but I hate with a passion tracer as the activation time makes it useless. Can you use arsenal successfully without Tracer? If so what is the best rotation PvP or PvE?

[Chaoskyx]

Short answer: No

 

Less short answer: Absolutely not

[yoomazir]

Arsenal without Tracer is like swimming in a pool without water: a complete disaster.

[LukeSaberRattler]

Yeah I figured I guess I just have to leave with being pummeled to death trying to fire off a few tracer rounds.

[Phasersablaze]

So I prefer Arsenal over Pyro but I hate with a passion tracer as the activation time makes it useless. Can you use arsenal successfully without Tracer? If so what is the best rotation PvP or PvE?

 

You have almost got it. Your question should more specifically be: "Can you use Arsenal successfully without Tracer in PVP when someone is attacking you?"

 

The answer is yes, absolutely. All the good pvp mercenaries are doing this.

 

Arsenal Mercs' sweet spot is standing back from the crowd and firing to their heart's content. Tracers are an integral part of the rotation and should always be used in this scenario. The problem is that when you play Rated or any team with good mele players they are going to try to stop you because you are an asset if left alone. And here is what sepparates the good PVP mercs from the masses. AS SOON AS YOU GET SINGLED OUT YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR TACTICS.

 

1) If they jump to you - They have already made a grave mistake by wasting their charge. Use your AE knockback followed by stun. THEN you can tracer/Fusion missile or else powersurge into your second stun is they break out of your first.

 

2) If they run up to you - Still open up with Jet Boost but do not follow up with a stun (if they break out and leap back to you then your out of tricks). Ideally you would use unload to snare them as they walk back to you forcing them to either eat lead or jump back to you. If they jump back then use your second KB (Rocket Punch) followed by a stun. You are now safe to cast Tracer/Fusion Missile.

 

Note: Never open up a 1v1 fight with tracer. The only way this is ever successful is if the other guy is bad...and then you didn't need to open up with tracer to win anyway. Opening up with tracer just gets you interrupted, and puts your enemy at an advantage. Use Explosive Dart instead of tracer for opening up when you can.

 

Here is a video of a Commando named Zachariah doing exactly what I'm talking about. I'm a Merc on the opposing team (Phaser). At the end you can see we both ranked in the 600k plus range for damage blowing everyone else away except a couple Marauders who did okay. I would consider that to be pretty successful.

 

Conclusion: Tracer is an important part of your rotation, but never use when you are being attacked.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Phasersablaze

[Phasersablaze]

Oops forgot to put in the video!

 

[Soljin]

You have almost got it. Your question should more specifically be: "Can you use Arsenal successfully without Tracer in PVP when someone is attacking you?"

 

The answer is yes, absolutely. All the good pvp mercenaries are doing this.

 

Arsenal Mercs' sweet spot is standing back from the crowd and firing to their heart's content. Tracers are an integral part of the rotation and should always be used in this scenario. The problem is that when you play Rated or any team with good mele players they are going to try to stop you because you are an asset if left alone. And here is what sepparates the good PVP mercs from the masses. AS SOON AS YOU GET SINGLED OUT YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR TACTICS.

 

1) If they jump to you - They have already made a grave mistake by wasting their charge. Use your AE knockback followed by stun. THEN you can tracer/Fusion missile or else powersurge into your second stun is they break out of your first.

 

2) If they run up to you - Still open up with Jet Boost but do not follow up with a stun. Ideally you would use unload to snare them as they walk back to you forcing them to either eat lead or jump back to you. If they jump back then use your second KB (Rocket Punch) followed by a stun. You are now safe to cast Tracer/Fusion Missile.

 

Note: Never open up a 1v1 fight with tracer. The only way this is ever successful is if the other guy is bad...and then you didn't need to open up with tracer to win anyway. Opening up with tracer just gets you interrupted, and puts your enemy at an advantage. Use Explosive Dart instead of tracer for opening up when you can.

 

Here is a video of a Commando named Zachariah doing exactly what I'm talking about. I'm a Merc on the opposing team. At the end you can see we both ranked in the 600k plus range for damage blowing everyone else away except a couple Marauders that did okay. I would consider that to be pretty successful.

 

Also keep Power shot keybound...If you get jumped and your stuns on CD you use PS to fake the interupt then get your Tracer missle off to get your buffs and procs off....If they dont interupt then commence 2 more tracers to get ful dmg potential....Its all about getting your procs and dmg buffs up......Just rotate tracer and PS to get them up then one when you can to keep them up if the dude isnt dead yet.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Soljin

[Chaoskyx]

Conclusion: Tracer is an important part of your rotation, but never use when you are being attacked.

 

...But then you're self interrupting. In fact, you'll probably get off fewer Tracer Missiles than you would if you just went ahead and let it get interrupted.

 

Powershot is a decent fallback, but Arsenal is too dependent on Tracer to succeed without it.

[Soljin]

...But then you're self interrupting. In fact, you'll probably get off fewer Tracer Missiles than you would if you just went ahead and let it get interrupted.

 

Powershot is a decent fallback, but Arsenal is too dependent on Tracer to succeed without it.

 

Agreed...you have to use Tracer Missle one way or another...The Arse spec is completely built around it...Unfotunately.

[Aerro]

I tried biting my tongue but here I go.

 

 

No.

[Phasersablaze]

Once again (for anyone who is actually interested in something other than their own ego)

 

Here is a vid featuring a Commando (Zachariah) doing exactly what I talked about. I am on the other team (Phaser). Both of us broke 600k damage; blowing everyone else out of the water including 2+ Marauders. Notice also the only times Zachariah died were when I killed him.

 

 

1/2 of learning how to PVP well with a Merc is staying 30m away from everyone else like Zach was doing. The other part is learning how to react when you get focused (I have some scenarios typed out earlier in this thread). If you want to be successful in PVP you have to break out of the mindset that you open up with 3 tracer missiles. I would say 80% of merc/commandos are still in the 3 tracer minset and those guys are even easier to kill than sorcs.

[Chaoskyx]

Once again (for anyone who is actually interested in something other than their own ego)

 

Here is a vid featuring a Commando (Zachariah) doing exactly what I talked about. I am on the other team (Phaser). Both of us broke 600k damage; blowing everyone else out of the water including 2+ Marauders. Notice also the only times Zachariah died were when I killed him.

 

 

1/2 of learning how to PVP well with a Merc is staying 30m away from everyone else like Zach was doing. The other part is learning how to react when you get focused (I have some scenarios typed out earlier in this thread). If you want to be successful in PVP you have to break out of the mindset that you open up with 3 tracer missiles. I would say 80% of merc/commandos are still in the 3 tracer minset and those guys are even easier to kill than sorcs.

 

1. Their ammo management was horrendous.

2. There were times when they used High Impact Bolt and Demolition Round without the proper buffs when cutting the set-up process short was entirely unnecessary. There were also times when the buffs were ready and they simply continued to use Grav Round.

3. WHY DID YOU EVEN LINK THIS VIDEO? There is not a single instance in the video where Zachariah employed your revolutionary idea of not opening with Grav Round. In fact, they were barely attacked at all, and only died due to overextension.

 

I have to ask: What's the point in opening with something other than Tracer Missile? Maybe if an enemy is going to leap you, Explosive Dart would be better to open with, but otherwise you're just delaying the set-up for your real damage.

If you mean that one shouldn't use Tracer when an enemy is able to interrupt you, there are several problems with that:

 

1. Some classes get 4m interrupts, some get 10m interrupts, and some get 30m interrupts.

2. Assuming melee interrupt range, Gunnery/Arsenal commandos/mercenaries simply do not have the tools necessary to keep enemies at range.

3. A decent player will know to save their interrupt for Tracer, so trying to bait an interrupt with, say, Powershot, simply isn't an option.

 

Also, if you were planning on doing so, don't mention fake-casts, because good players will wait until late in the cast to interrupt, in which case you've lost the DPS race anyway.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Chaoskyx

[Kusanami]

There is one reason to use Powershot/Charged bolts instead of tracer/grav. The Shadow/Assassin ability that blocks all tech damage. It's not always but it's nice to have a fall back.

 

In the current age of PVP, sometimes it's best to get your damage out fast instead of the most optimal setup. It's all situational for the most part. I only did 2 grav rounds to a target it's almost dead, might as well use demolition round/hib to finish it off and move on.

 

If you have time and the opponent is stupid, sure go the most optimal/max damage possible. Otherwise mixing it up, changing things around using procs when feasible. It's all about adapting more so with Commando/mercs.

[Phasersablaze]

There is one reason to use Powershot/Charged bolts instead of tracer/grav. The Shadow/Assassin ability that blocks all tech damage. It's not always but it's nice to have a fall back.

 

In the current age of PVP, sometimes it's best to get your damage out fast instead of the most optimal setup. It's all situational for the most part. I only did 2 grav rounds to a target it's almost dead, might as well use demolition round/hib to finish it off and move on.

 

If you have time and the opponent is stupid, sure go the most optimal/max damage possible. Otherwise mixing it up, changing things around using procs when feasible. It's all about adapting more so with Commando/mercs.

 

^^^ Finally someone who understands pvp. In the case of assasins though you still have unload, Railshot, and rapid shots which is why I don't have power-shot on my castbar. Force shroud only lasts 5 seconds.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Phasersablaze

[Phasersablaze]

1. Their ammo management was horrendous. (No it wasn't. That's a pretty ridiculous claim, considering he did 680k damage. If you want to push your dps, you have to be audacious.)

2. There were times when they used High Impact Bolt and Demolition Round without the proper buffs when cutting the set-up process short was entirely unnecessary. (All that is speculation. Sometimes it's best to use HSM/RS/Unload on cooldown. You never know if they are going to LOS you before you cast that 3rd tracer or not. Your argument doesn't really hold water considering his dps results.)

 

3. WHY DID YOU EVEN LINK THIS VIDEO? (Because the OP is wanting to understand how to becme better at Merc PVP. Zach is a very good example of what to do. And yes, if you actually watch, he never opens up with tracer on someone who has the potential to fight back. You can see him opening with stun or explosive dart. He is also very good at ranging his targets and also using rapid shots when hes starafing.)

 

I have to ask: What's the point in opening with something other than Tracer Missile?

 

a) At the start of a fight your enemy has potentially all of his cooldowns up, and you can bet he will be watching for your tracer.

b) Opening with explosive dart grants you the advantage of deception. By the time it explodes you have already done another attack and they are sitting at 75% health before they consider you a threat.

c) Having tracer interrupted is a huge tempo loss because you have done 0 damage. Opening with tracer is like giving your enemy a handicap every time you 1v1.

d) The goal is to use tracer, yes, but to do it at a time in the fight when your enemy wont be likely to interrupt. IE after a knockback, stun, or after having unload interrupted.

 

BTW: Fishing for interrupts is not something I like to do. A smart enemy will not be fooled. Better to just kill them since you have abilities that are very capable of doing so.

 

GL out there to anyone seeking to improve yourselves. A little practice and it is very possible to be pushing 700k in full length warzones. Most certainly over 300k every match.

[Aerro]

Why did you create another post after forum mods deleted it?

[Flintfire]

I have to ask: What's the point in opening with something other than Tracer Missile?

 

 

Because you can open with unload, then use it again after Barrage lets you use it again. Two hard hitting attacks if you open with unload. Tracer missile is great, but its by no means an opener due to its cast time, unless you are ambushing someone. Then go for it.

[Gankstah]

Once again (for anyone who is actually interested in something other than their own ego)

 

Here is a vid featuring a Commando (Zachariah) doing exactly what I talked about. I am on the other team (Phaser). Both of us broke 600k damage; blowing everyone else out of the water including 2+ Marauders. Notice also the only times Zachariah died were when I killed him.

 

Irony ^

 

Gotta love it.