Hessen Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I don't know about you guys, but I come and go from different MMOs based on whether or not I'm having fun. I'm having fun, I stay. I'm not, I go. Something new happens, I come back to check it out, I may stay for a long time, or for a little while. You're doing it wrong! If you play an MMO you have to forsake all other games and commit lifelong to it. If the game dies after a year of you enjoying it, it's a dismal failure and you deserve your money back and to be compensated that it isn't as much fun as when you first started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hessen Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Don't get me wrong I completely agree with you without regular content games die (MxO anyone?). But, you have to admit that many on these forums think that they are justified from everything from content, dev's speaking in the forums, the forums themselves and even Ham Samiches, just because they pay a fee an do not understand what that fee gives them. Sure some demands are outrageous, and are part of the embarrassing entitlement age we live in. Unrealistic expectations is ultimately what causes unsubscriptions. Either the end users have a host of unreasonable demands of what should be delivered, or the game publisher has contributed towards it. I don't think an improvement in developer communication on the forums, or more regular content updates is an unreasonable request. Expectation might be a bit too strong a word. On a side note, I did write a nice long post the other day about the most common SWTOR related unrealistic demands vs. realistic demands vs. what has actually been delivered. Alas it was in a thread the mods decided shouldn't exist, and the whole thing was deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Sure some demands are outrageous, and are part of the embarrassing entitlement age we live in. Unrealistic expectations is ultimately what causes unsubscriptions. Either the end users have a host of unreasonable demands of what should be delivered, or the game publisher has contributed towards it. I don't think an improvement in developer communication on the forums, or more regular content updates is an unreasonable request. Expectation might be a bit too strong a word. On a side note, I did write a nice long post the other day about the most common SWTOR related unrealistic demands vs. realistic demands vs. what has actually been delivered. Alas it was in a thread the mods decided shouldn't exist, and the whole thing was deleted. Screen shot or it didn't happen!!! Seriously though I would have loved to have read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) I don't know about you guys, but I come and go from different MMOs based on whether or not I'm having fun. I'm having fun, I stay. I'm not, I go. Something new happens, I come back to check it out, I may stay for a long time, or for a little while. Could not have said it better myself. As for all the hyperbole and self-entitelement in this thread.... come on guys, can't you come up with something new instead of rubber stamping the same tired cliches into the forum over and over? The topic was kind of new, but the pile-on was old and cliche. Edited August 24, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Could not have said it better myself. As for all the hyperbole and self-entitelement in this thread.... come on guys, can't you come up with something new instead of rubber stamping the same tired cliches into the forum over and over? The topic was kind of new, but the pile-on was old and cliche. Be reasonable!! We are all confined to a variable return rate skinner box clicking away for our virtual zinger in forum PvP!!! How dare you speak so. *tsk tsk* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fornix Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I don't know about you guys, but I come and go from different MMOs based on whether or not I'm having fun. I'm having fun, I stay. I'm not, I go. Something new happens, I come back to check it out, I may stay for a long time, or for a little while. But what's the fun in that, if rather you could keep yourself subscribed to the game for additional months just to keep whining, moaning, trolling and harassing on forums? 20 Years ago for people to vent such frustration they were expected to join group therapy sessions, visit psychologists, whatever. All coming for 15 bucks an hour if you were lucky. So 15 bucks a month must be a golden deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) I don't think that's too much to ask. They already do: http://www.swtor.com/ Updated regularly too. But I can see that your thread title is misleading. It's really a complaint post about legacy rewards, not a sincere request for an outline of why you should stay playing the game. Silly question anyway.... the only valid reason is because you enjoy the game. You don't need a developer wasting their time to help you realize this. Edited August 24, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WookieIsshe Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 We are in he entitlement age We sure are, just look at the CE owners that think that just because they spent extra they should get extra for the lifetime of the game. You got what you paid for in the box. No one else got that stuff. Same with everything else in the game. Everyone thinks they are entitled to everything. Here is a hint.. you only have a license to play on their servers. Everything on your character still belongs 100% to Bioware/EA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urael Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 We sure are, just look at the CE owners that think that just because they spent extra they should get extra for the lifetime of the game. You got what you paid for in the box. No one else got that stuff. Same with everything else in the game. Everyone thinks they are entitled to everything. Here is a hint.. you only have a license to play on their servers. Everything on your character still belongs 100% to Bioware/EA. I will turn this around and raise you all the people did NOT purchase the CE and whine that they should have what CE owners have. Oh I sooooo agree with your last statement!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 actually the 15$ a month we have all paid for the past 8 months says other wise. if they cant deliver on the content they can atleast take a few minutes out of their day to answer a few questions. and you can not say rated warzones and group finder are content. they should have been released with the actual box. You're just making up reasons why you believe you're more important in this equation than you are. Sorry, no dice. Go read your Terms of Service again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricktur Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 i read an article dated july 31st 2012 that stated that back in feb of 2012, EA announced swtor subs dropping to 1.3 million. recent EA earnings reports stated that swtor has lost another 400k subs. doing the math, that puts swtor at 900k active subs atm. thats still really damn good. all this talk about EvE's steadily rising 360k subs. . . swtor is triple that. so please chill about the f2p crap, its just a business ploy. just treat swtor like a sub based game like it always has been and you wont be so butt hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Once more second verse same as the first ..... Your sub price does not entitle you to anything other that access to the game, where in you accept the standard agreements on what that entails. Thats it. Period. Nothing more. Anything else is a perk. These forums for instance are a perk. I would rather have the Devs fixing things and making new content that spending all their time on the forums. The Community Team will compile lists and attempt to get answers to our questions. I admit I would like more communication but at this point I will take what I can get. When was the last time you saw a dev actually fix something, instead of introducing something new that inadvertently broke something else? And the devs are supposed to be communicating with community relations, who are then supposed to be on the forums talking with us, according to what they were posting just a week or two ago. Where did all of this great communication that was promised disappear to? Finally, if I pay for an MMO, it's supposed to be an MMO and yes community communication and game development are part of what I'm paying for. I'm sorry you think so little of yourself you feel it's alright for the EA/BW team to spit on you while they collect your money, but I'm a little (or perhaps a lot) older than you and expect customer service when I'm the customer. If EA/BW can't or won't provide it, I definitely won't stay. As for legacy, wahoo, they introduced yet another grind to the game instead of real content or real fixes. I was less-than-impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBuckets Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) We have been in a bit of a content and information draught, but now they've released a bunch of information. We've got information on vertical expansion to all existing aspects of the game: - PVE Endgame - New gear tier, new Operation: Terror From Beyond (SM/HM), Denova (NM), (New flashpoints not confirmed) - PVP - New gear tier, new Warzone: Ancient Hypergates - Character / Story Advancement - New planet : Makeb, slightly raised level cap, new abilities - Space Combat Mini-game - 10 New endgame missions - Fluff / Collectibles - HK-51 Companion, Cartel Coin shop items, new collectible pets/vehicles/titles/items - Features - Free to play / A la Carte Options for access, continuous optimization / bug fixes Based on the information provided, the tentative launch window for all of this content (with the exception of Makeb) is this calendar year, with the new PVE and PVP tiers launching in September / October. The big questions (and the most exciting prospect for players) deal with horizontal expansion of the game - that is, adding new game systems and ways to play. This will include SECRET SPACE PROJECT and OPEN WORLD PVP PROJECT. Those have been confirmed as in development but details are scarce. If we don't go as long as we did this summer for content updates, the technical bugs get quashed and become more infrequent, and we get some cool stuff out of the unannounced projects, the future of the game is looking very bright. The first year of SWTOR was a bit rocky, but the game will be in good shape when all the new F2P players hop in for the first time in a couple months (and there will be many). F2P also gives existing players the option to take breaks from playing primarily SWTOR but still participate casually and with guilds without ongoing monetary investment. Edited August 24, 2012 by DarthBuckets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShatteredVision Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 i read an article dated july 31st 2012 that stated that back in feb of 2012, EA announced swtor subs dropping to 1.3 million. recent EA earnings reports stated that swtor has lost another 400k subs. doing the math, that puts swtor at 900k active subs atm. thats still really damn good. all this talk about EvE's steadily rising 360k subs. . . swtor is triple that. so please chill about the f2p crap, its just a business ploy. just treat swtor like a sub based game like it always has been and you wont be so butt hurt. Yeah...except...swtor doesn't HAVE that many subs. They announced recently between 500 and 900k...which means probably closer to 500k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOvertone Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Wait, I'm a little confused... what's so bad about paying 100k? That doesn't seem unreasonable. Or is this just going right over my head? I pay more than 100k for one purple Overkill Augment. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aurellian Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 actually the 15$ a month we have all paid for the past 8 months says other wise. if they cant deliver on the content they can atleast take a few minutes out of their day to answer a few questions. and you can not say rated warzones and group finder are content. they should have been released with the actual box. See this is the problem. Everyone has an opinion on "what should have been released with the box." The problem with this is that what YOU think should have been released the box is relative to what the next guy thinks should have been released with the box. You're obviously not satisfied with the amount of content released so far. But Im happy with the fact that since I've been playing, I've seen a new warzone, a new operation, 2 world events, an easier way to find groups to experience flashpoints and operations, a new set of daily quests on Corellia, and multiple other additions to the game in addition to many timely bug fixes. Are there still issues and improvements I'd like to see? Absolutely. However Bioware has shown me enough to warrant patience on my part. I wish it was the same for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Personally I'm just sick and tired of made up lore that didn't exist before. I want existing Star Wars lore. Without it the game feels entirely too generic, no matter how many glowbats you throw into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Personally I'm just sick and tired of made up lore that didn't exist before. I want existing Star Wars lore. Without it the game feels entirely too generic, no matter how many glowbats you throw into it. I might be opening a can of worms by asking, but what sort of things are you running into? I've only watched the 6 movies and read the Zahn books, so I know there's a probably lot of EU lore that I'm unfamiliar with. I just haven't run into something lore-related that is so jarring it throws me out of the game. Now there are some game mechanics that are jarring until you get used to it (like little groups of myopic baddies standing around waiting for a fight). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 From a legal standpoint, sure. (although muddied somewhat by devs promising additional content on a monthly basis - could argue that's false advertising) But realistically, everyone is not paying a monthly sub just to access what already exists. There is an implied expectation of continued development in return for subscription fees. Not meeting that expectation is somewhat to blame for the game finding itself in the pickle it is in. I am paying a monthly subscription to access what already exists. I still haven't completed all of the content that's here yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubernetic Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 See this is the problem. Everyone has an opinion on "what should have been released with the box." The problem with this is that what YOU think should have been released the box is relative to what the next guy thinks should have been released with the box. You're obviously not satisfied with the amount of content released so far. But Im happy with the fact that since I've been playing, I've seen a new warzone, a new operation, 2 world events, an easier way to find groups to experience flashpoints and operations, a new set of daily quests on Corellia, and multiple other additions to the game in addition to many timely bug fixes. Are there still issues and improvements I'd like to see? Absolutely. However Bioware has shown me enough to warrant patience on my part. I wish it was the same for you. Well stated. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gungan Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I might be opening a can of worms by asking, but what sort of things are you running into? I've only watched the 6 movies and read the Zahn books, so I know there's a probably lot of EU lore that I'm unfamiliar with. I just haven't run into something lore-related that is so jarring it throws me out of the game. Now there are some game mechanics that are jarring until you get used to it (like little groups of myopic baddies standing around waiting for a fight). The problem is that they aren't using much of the EU lore. There are dozens of planets in the EU they could have added to the game, and instead they made up their own. Can you imagine Yavin IV in this time period. The Massassi are a clear avenue of exploration (because they're not extinct), and I bet they haven't even thought of it. The Gree are just a minor footnote in EU lore and they pick them to focus on. Makeb doesn't even exist in the lore until they add it to this game. They could be adding the Jedi Enclave on Dantooine, Witches of Dathomir, any of the homeworlds of the Quaren/Mon Cal, Twi'leks, etc. The homeworlds of most of the playable races aren't even in the game. They're working nothing interesting into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 The problem is that they aren't using much of the EU lore. There are dozens of planets in the EU they could have added to the game, and instead they made up their own. Nothing is part of the EU lore until it is added to EU lore. If the EU never wrote in anything that didn't exist already in EU, EU would only be comprised of the six original movies, and would not be the Expanded Universe at all. The idea of SWTOR is to be an original work, they specifically set the game 3000 years before the Galactic Civil War era so that they'd have free license to write in what they want. The entire plot of SWTOR did not exist in EU until it was made in this game, and you're complaining that they're writing new planets as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Nothing is part of the EU lore until it is added to EU lore. If the EU never wrote in anything that didn't exist already in EU, EU would only be comprised of the six original movies, and would not be the Expanded Universe at all. The idea of SWTOR is to be an original work, they specifically set the game 3000 years before the Galactic Civil War era so that they'd have free license to write in what they want. The entire plot of SWTOR did not exist in EU until it was made in this game, and you're complaining that they're writing new planets as well? I agree. I get that there are some players that are lore purests, but in reality staying in the timeline of the movies makes it very difficult to produce a good lore based MMO. As evidenced by SWG. The game was a lot of things to a lot of people, but as lore goes it had many flaws and was very constrained by the timeline. And let's be honest, any property (be it book, movie, game, etc) should contribute to expand the SW universe, not rehash the same stuff over and over again. This is a primary vision of Lucas Arts, and is why they allow the SW universe to continue to expand (with their oversight for continuity of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cakellene Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 If you like the game you play it and support it, if you don't like it then no reason to waste time you could spend having fun elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafaman Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) I don't need developers, marketing, or others of similar ilk to tell me why I should stay. In the same vein, I don't need self proclaimed MMO experts telling me why I should go. I pay for a service and I'll come and go at need. As for legacy, if that is the real axe to grind in this thread, I'm fine with it thus far. I'm legacy lev 43. I have maxed affection on my main's companions and see the benefit accross 7 other alts because of legacy. I have used the xp perk with great effect. I have used the speeder perk with great relief. I have a mail box on my ship and a field repair droid in constant use. I could go on but the net of it is, I'm having fun with legacy as it stands and don't need it improved as a justification to stay. I would like to see a huge perk for capping legacy. As I'm getting close now, I would really like a reward for getting there. Edited August 25, 2012 by Rafaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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