TOR to sell Stated Gear In FTP cash shop here is our new content after 6 monthes of n

[DarthAxe]

Anybody remember Bullfrog or Westwood?

 

What is happening at BW is exactly what happened to those companies, EA came in with the cash bought them up and shut them down eventually.

 

The fact that TOR has been an utter disaster, going from sub based to f2p in less than a year cannot be called anything less.

 

Anyways I will not be resubbing and I have had it with EA, I will not be buying anything else from them, ket some other peon give them their money.

[ripster]

After the F2P you kept access to the old content whether you had the VIP (sub) option or F2P option, although F2P did have other limitations such as charater slots/bank space/gold amounts etc.

If you dropped from VIP to Premium, you lost access to Quest Packs, even if you were a subscriber before the switch to F2P. You did keep any expansion you bought, which SWTOR has none to make an issue of yet.

[Eillack]

Lol @ OP and Massively. Those who listen to their troll rants become so foolish.

 

Look, the article said it would never be top-end stats. Most likely (seeing that no one here has any facts, only speculations!) green level items which are nothing. Do I like this in general, no, but it is still better than STO most likely.

[jarjarloves]

call me crazy but I prefer to wait and see rather then waste time and energy fearing what MIGHT happen.

 

If they do make it P2W I stop playing and don't give them a dime and move on. Simple as that.

 

Not going to rage and make some huge post on the forums how I supported the game from day 1 and Bioware failed me. I just simple take my money elsewhere. My money speaks louder then any forum post I could ever write.

 

If the game is still fun and not P2W then I keep playing until it is no longer fun.

 

I'm pretty sure Bioware knows what happens if they make the game P2W.

[Goretzu]

NM, I see what you are saying here. I'm not going to speculate further however because we do not have sufficient information yet.

Makeb isn't current content though. Makeb wasn't sold with the box, nor promised with it, so you have no right to demand access to it as "F2P', which is what I feel you're arguing for.

 

They MAY be able to sell it to some subscribers, I hope they don't and I feel it would be a terrible mistake if they did...this game is losing players (4 of 5 or more) because of how little there is to do, not a sub fee.

 

 

Once it's done, it is done.

 

To say it's pointless to worry about something because it hasn't happened yet is daft....... that is exactly the point TO worry about it.

 

What is daft is to worry about something AFTER it happened, because by then there's nothing to be done about it.

[Goretzu]

Aspects of the game ARE content. It's not just which zones you can play in.

Such as? It was only quest packs put in AFTER F2P, wasn't it?

 

Pretty much summed it up right there for yourself.

 

You keep expressing how mad you are about this, and when it is pointed out that you are likely wrong about something or purely speculating, you shift and come right back from a different angle. 90% of that is all on you because you are creating it in your mind instead of actually waiting to see the release details.

 

All you are doing is making yourself upset about it. It's not like anything you post here is going to drive Bioware in a differerent direction. Nor are you influencing many people to follow your imagination on the issue. So I don't see what this achieves for you.

 

Bioware can believe what they like, it doesn't make it right, correct, or what I (or anyone else) should believe though.

[TUXs]

Once it's done, it is done.

 

To say it's pointless to worry about something because it hasn't happened yet is daft....... that is exactly the point TO worry about it.

 

What is daft is to worry about something AFTER it happened, because by then there's nothing to be done about it.

 

I wasn't implying it was pointless to make your opinion on the matter known, I fully support, both your stance on Makeb, and your right to voice your opinion. But...you're going beyond stating your opinion on Makeb and accusing Bioware of vile practices that they haven't engaged in (yet).

 

I FULLY understand your concern and I share your thoughts on Makeb. I feel it NEEDS to be included in the sub fee because they need SOME carrot to dangle to the F2P people before asking for both $15 AND whatever the 'expansion' would cost. If they don't bait F2P people with Makeb, they'll never sell F2P people on a sub fee...there'd just be no advantage to paying one.

 

While I agree with your concern and share your opinion, I think you're going overboard in your chastising of Bioware on this and your arguing for getting Makeb for free in the wrong way. They don't just owe it to you because you bought the game...however, I do feel they owe it to people who PAY for their sub.

[Andryah]

I wasn't implying it was pointless to make your opinion on the matter known, I fully support, both your stance on Makeb, and your right to voice your opinion. But...you're going beyond stating your opinion on Makeb and accusing Bioware of vile practices that they haven't engaged in (yet).

 

I FULLY understand your concern and I share your thoughts on Makeb. I feel it NEEDS to be included in the sub fee because they need SOME carrot to dangle to the F2P people before asking for both $15 AND whatever the 'expansion' would cost. If they don't bait F2P people with Makeb, they'll never sell F2P people on a sub fee...there'd just be no advantage to paying one.

 

While I agree with your concern and share your opinion, I think you're going overboard in your chastising of Bioware on this and your arguing for getting Makeb for free in the wrong way. They don't just owe it to you because you bought the game...however, I do feel they owe it to people who PAY for their sub.

 

I agree with TUXs.

 

And now I am dizzy over the resonance between us today TUXs

[CKNORTH]

And then they will sell ten layered stat scrolls to be able to cap your stats at level one, lolololol

[DarthOvertone]

P2W is anything you can buy for RL cash that circumvents the need to progress in the game.

 

No it isn't. Pay-to-Win (P2W) is products only available in the game shop for real $$$ that give a player an advantage over another player which cannot be acquired through normal gameplay. Examples from LOTRO (and they are numerous) would be Stat Tomes, Store Pots (Healing/Power), and Store Buff Scrolls.

[ripster]

I feel it NEEDS to be included in the sub fee because they need SOME carrot to dangle to the F2P people before asking for both $15 AND whatever the 'expansion' would cost. If they don't bait F2P people with Makeb, they'll never sell F2P people on a sub fee...there'd just be no advantage to paying one.

Only if you think the purpose of F2P is to lure people into subs. Which I don't think that is the case. Of course they want more subs, but as someone who has spent more money on some F2P games than I ever would have had they remained sub only, there is a con to using stuff as a carrot for subbing: what happens when I unsub? If I am paying $15 a month just to access Makeb and whatever comes with it, if after 3 months I don't want to sub anymore, I lose Makeb and whatever comes with it. I'm pretty sure that, even if Makeb was $45 (and please let that be an overestimate) I'd be further ahead sticking F2P and paying for it outright. Now, I think access to content is a good perk, but I think it fails if you try to make it the focus. I think it is more useful for retaining subs.

[Mallorik]

Only if you think the purpose of F2P is to lure people into subs. Which I don't think that is the case. Of course they want more subs, but as someone who has spent more money on some F2P games than I ever would have had they remained sub only, there is a con to using stuff as a carrot for subbing: what happens when I unsub? If I am paying $15 a month just to access Makeb and whatever comes with it, if after 3 months I don't want to sub anymore, I lose Makeb and whatever comes with it. I'm pretty sure that, even if Makeb was $45 (and please let that be an overestimate) I'd be further ahead sticking F2P and paying for it outright. Now, I think access to content is a good perk, but I think it fails if you try to make it the focus. I think it is more useful for retaining subs.

 

Sub people better hope that they are trying to lure the f2p people into paying for a sub, the other model is horrible and counts on making people who pay for the game pay much more than the normal sub fee per month to make up for all the f2p people.

 

As far as paying for content, i have no problem paying for actual expansions as a subbed player.

[Andryah]

Sub people better hope that they are trying to lure the f2p people into paying for a sub, the other model is horrible and counts on making people who pay for the game pay much more than the normal sub fee per month to make up for all the f2p people.

 

As far as paying for content, i have no problem paying for actual expansions as a subbed player.

 

There is plenty of sound research (I've linked it in the past in the forums) now that demonstrates the average free-player will drop as much, if not more, cash per month on a game compared to if they subscribe. The game companies (from mobile gaming, through PC gaming) have tapped into a psychology that is common in the consumer base. So no, they don't need to design their dual access model to draw non-subs in as subs. They just need to support both audiences and let the audience sort out personal preference.

 

It's a different style of player/consumer, and it is growing (primarily via learned behavior in the mobile smartphone market) faster then classic subscriptions player base. So a dual access model makes good busines sense. It's low hanging fruit for companies right now.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Andryah

[Kraith]

Well, lets just hope most of the gear will be cosmetic with open modable slots. Even with a sub still active, i would pay a few extra $$$ for cosmetic gear.

[Goretzu]

I wasn't implying it was pointless to make your opinion on the matter known, I fully support, both your stance on Makeb, and your right to voice your opinion. But...you're going beyond stating your opinion on Makeb and accusing Bioware of vile practices that they haven't engaged in (yet).

 

I FULLY understand your concern and I share your thoughts on Makeb. I feel it NEEDS to be included in the sub fee because they need SOME carrot to dangle to the F2P people before asking for both $15 AND whatever the 'expansion' would cost. If they don't bait F2P people with Makeb, they'll never sell F2P people on a sub fee...there'd just be no advantage to paying one.

 

While I agree with your concern and share your opinion, I think you're going overboard in your chastising of Bioware on this and your arguing for getting Makeb for free in the wrong way. They don't just owe it to you because you bought the game...however, I do feel they owe it to people who PAY for their sub.

 

 

 

I haven't said they've done anything yet - they haven't.

 

I'm saying they are thinking about doing - which they are (they have said so).

[Goretzu]

No it isn't. Pay-to-Win (P2W) is products only available in the game shop for real $$$ that give a player an advantage over another player which cannot be acquired through normal gameplay. Examples from LOTRO (and they are numerous) would be Stat Tomes, Store Pots (Healing/Power), and Store Buff Scrolls.

 

Yes it is. If you can buy raid gear it's still P2W even if it's just used for PvE.

[NasherUK]

This smells a lot like pay to win. In which case, the game will be dead by this time next year.

 

EA will never learn.

[CorellianWannabe]

I addressed that. Gear progression. Raiding is gear progression. If you just buy the gear... well you beat the game, right? Still, raiding is where the real competitiveness starts, not leveling through the class stories.

 

But you didn't beat the game-there will always be a new raid coming out. So those people will have to keep paying, thereby increasing the cash flow.

[CorellianWannabe]

 

They have also said they will do content releases on a more regular basis (six weeks), and that such content will continue to be free to subscribers. They have not yet said if said content will be free to non-subscribers.

 

What is unknown, until they tell us definitively (as opposed to just sharing thing they are "thinking about") is how Makeb and a few other large content moves will be released to subscribers. And what is unknown is are they making it now part of a much large set of content that meets generally accepted standards for MMOs to qualify as a paid expansion product. We don't yet, so you constantly making sweeping statements of speculation and presenting is at fact is inaccurate and inappropriate.

 

So they have access to what updates since the game went live-2 raids and a warzone (maybe 3 by Nov)? Raids that freebie players can't access at all so they're not missing anything? They can't decide if HK and Makeb will be out before the f2p switch-which would conveniently exclude them from any grandfathering. Hell, even if Makeb is released before November there may be a cost to subscribers regardless.

 

So what is the large set of content-a string of DLC with included costs?

[CorellianWannabe]

If you drop your sub now, you lose access to everything. I don't know how you still don't get that. F2P is a new option, and it is free. Right now, free gets you nothing. After F2P, free gets you a lot more. You really think it makes sense to add F2P and let every subscriber switch to free and keep everything? Who would keep a sub?

 

Raiders? Pvpers? Let's see just how vital those cliques are to an MMO-beyond their inflated perceptions.

[CorellianWannabe]

Makeb isn't current content though. Makeb wasn't sold with the box, nor promised with it, so you have no right to demand access to it as "F2P', which is what I feel you're arguing for.

 

They MAY be able to sell it to some subscribers, I hope they don't and I feel it would be a terrible mistake if they did...this game is losing players (4 of 5 or more) because of how little there is to do, not a sub fee.

 

So freebie players should get to have world pvp on Ilum, right? Wasn't that part of the core game?

[CorellianWannabe]

There is plenty of sound research (I've linked it in the past in the forums) now that demonstrates the average free-player will drop as much, if not more, cash per month on a game compared to if they subscribe. The game companies (from mobile gaming, through PC gaming) have tapped into a psychology that is common in the consumer base. So no, they don't need to design their dual access model to draw non-subs in as subs. They just need to support both audiences and let the audience sort out personal preference.

 

It's a different style of player/consumer, and it is growing (primarily via learned behavior in the mobile smartphone market) faster then classic subscriptions player base. So a dual access model makes good busines sense. It's low hanging fruit for companies right now.

 

If it's so clever why didn't Bioware design and sell the game as such from the start?

[Ricktur]

i hear these complaints and i understand them. . .

 

however:

 

when you go in game and try and say less than half of the **** going on in this thread, you practically get run off.

 

so you guys wanna complain?

 

great.

 

just know people actually playing the game think you are all very irrelevant.

[TUXs]

So freebie players should get to have world pvp on Ilum, right? Wasn't that part of the core game?

 

I'd assume they'll be able to, but again, you're comparing apples to oranges - you're asking for something that was included with both your purchase of the game AND a monthly sub fee. Assuming those criteria are still met, I have no reason to doubt you'll be pleased. Free players, who don't pay their sub fees, will have the restrictions on 'core game' stuff I assume.

 

You seem to forget that right now, before F2P, you must pay a sub fee to access ANYTHING. You can't even log in without paying a sub fee. Purchase of the box doesn't entitle you to anything in game without a sub fee. I will assume that EVERYTHING we have access to now, will also be available to subscribers during F2P. Its the stuff they add AFTER F2P I worry about.

[CorellianWannabe]

I'd assume they'll be able to, but again, you're comparing apples to oranges - you're asking for something that was included with both your purchase of the game AND a monthly sub fee. Assuming those criteria are still met, I have no reason to doubt you'll be pleased. Free players, who don't pay their sub fees, will have the restrictions on 'core game' stuff I assume.

 

You seem to forget that right now, before F2P, you must pay a sub fee to access ANYTHING. You can't even log in without paying a sub fee. Purchase of the box doesn't entitle you to anything in game without a sub fee. I will assume that EVERYTHING we have access to now, will also be available to subscribers during F2P. Its the stuff they add AFTER F2P I worry about.

 

I know- free players will get to play one character (a human only), not get to craft (or gather), no inventory expansion, no bank access, ceiling on credit accumulation, walk everywhere, and uninstall when they've finished the stories. At least that's my plan-why pay to unlock more characters? Legacy perks that probably won't be allowed for free players either? No crafting mules, no bankrolling alts-no point to alts period. Just delete and make a new one (or make a new free account if you're attached to that crippled level 50 for some reason).

 

Bioware will definitely turn this into the single-player game everyone has always said it was.