TOR to sell Stated Gear In FTP cash shop here is our new content after 6 monthes of n

[TUXs]

What else is there to prove?

 

They quite clearly say they haven't decided yet, which means (unsurprisingly)..... they haven't decided (but they are thinking about charging subscribers for it).

 

So quite clearly at this moment (dispite what they have said previously ) Makeb will not be free to subscribers, it only might be, IF indeed they eventually decide that.

 

So presently subscribers may very well have to pay for Makeb.

 

Yup. The fact that they haven't 'decided' speaks volumes of what they feel about their current customers. All the promises of better, bigger and more frequent updates was all a lie.

[Goretzu]

Wow...

 

A lotta content huh?! Versus what we have?! I really hope they just sell it...that'll make my choice so much easier.

Yup. The fact that they haven't 'decided' speaks volumes of what they feel about their current customers. All the promises of better, bigger and more frequent updates was all a lie.

 

That's just it, they certainly implied, if not explicitly stated that Makeb would be free to subscribers under the "F2P/cashshop" model.

 

Now they have every right to change their mind, it's their game and their content, but then so do players intending to subscribe under that model have every right to be angry that the goal posts are being moved already.

 

It's one thing to be told "this is your journey" it's another to realise that at any point along that route everything from the destination to the route itself might well be changed without warning.

 

Things need to be explicitly stated so customers can make an informed choice, not told one thing one day and another on another day.

[discosoc]

More and more, this feels like a PAY TO WIN model instead of a FREE TO PLAY model.

 

It's an MMO, so how can you "win?"

 

Now, if the only realistic way to get the gear needed for end-game progression was through a cash shop, then yes, it would be pay to win. If a cash shop offers stuff for sell that you could normally obtain in game through normal play (not months and months of grinding, for example), then it's not pay to win. It's simply selling stuff to people too lazy to work for it. I'd hardly call those people winners.

[HarleysRule]

If someone is dumb enough and/or has enough disposable income to drop $20 on a set of leveling gear that they're going to outlevel in a couple hours of play, well then more power to them. If they start selling raid gear or PvP gear higher than Recruit in the cash shop, I'm done.

 

Unless Makeb and whatever else comes with it is equal to a "normal" expansion in size, it better free for subscribers, or I'm done. WTH would be the point of subscribing if I have to pay for content like a F2Per would?

[Tiek]

i would pay for makeb, if it was like $1.99. based on this game so far, 1 planet would be a poor excuse for an expansion.

[discosoc]

If someone is dumb enough and/or has enough disposable income to drop $20 on a set of leveling gear that they're going to outlevel in a couple hours of play, well then more power to them. If they start selling raid gear or PvP gear higher than Recruit in the cash shop, I'm done.

 

Unless Makeb and whatever else comes with it is equal to a "normal" expansion in size, it better free for subscribers, or I'm done. WTH would be the point of subscribing if I have to pay for content like a F2Per would?

 

As a subscriber, you would get unrestricted access to all of the existing game, and free Cartel Points each month. As long as you don't blow your Cartel Points on random crap, you should have more than enough to "purchase" new content updates like Makeb as they come, and it wouldn't cost you anything extra.

[tolaf]

As a subscriber, you would get unrestricted access to all of the existing game, and free Cartel Points each month. As long as you don't blow your Cartel Points on random crap, you should have more than enough to "purchase" new content updates like Makeb as they come, and it wouldn't cost you anything extra.

 

Then why don't i just unsubscribe and buy cartel points for a much cheaper price?

[Lostpenguins]

Can someone explain to me how this is "Pay To Win"? As far as I'm seeming to understand it, is this:

1) If you're a subscriber, then nothing will change, negatively. The only change is that, for each month you've subscribed you will get X amount of Cartel Coins which can be used to purchase extra things that are typically vanity items.

 

2) If you decide to go Free to Play and no longer want to subscribe, you will lose out on certain things. HOWEVER, you can spend some money to get access to specific things (unlimited PvP, or use of Operations, or use of multiple lvl 50 characters, etc.) You can also buy Cartel Coins.

 

Basically, the subscriber is getting access to everything at the buffet. The Free to Play player is paying for certain parts of the buffet they like going to. This is to retain customers who, say, were only PvP'ers and didn't like spending $15/month to have access to operations when they never set foot in them, and also to entice the more casual gamer to stick around and perhaps pay for vanity items.

 

So, can someone explain how a subscriber is going to have to Pay To Win? Cuz I don't see it in anything stated by a BW rep.

 

Rest assured, if I have to pay a cent past my subscriber fee to get something that I could not get access to otherwise (especially if it's a BiS item) I will be cancelling my account. This does not include the standard purchase of XPAC's (but I expect XPAC's to include many features and not me paying X amount of dollars to open up a new world - it better include level cap increases, new skills, new story, etc.).

 

As a subscriber, you would get unrestricted access to all of the existing game, and free Cartel Points each month. As long as you don't blow your Cartel Points on random crap, you should have more than enough to "purchase" new content updates like Makeb as they come, and it wouldn't cost you anything extra.

 

If I have to watch my Cartel Coins and decide between fluff and content, I'll probably unsub. I shouldn't have to miss out on new content because I don't have the coins yet and then either wait a month for new coins or buy them. As a subscriber I should have access to all content in the game the moment it comes out (this does not include the argument that I should be able to do operations solo or with bad gear so please don't go there...).

Edited August 20, 2012 by Lostpenguins

[bahdasz]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH! Already.

 

Geez.

 

At least let it happen before you start crying. Does anyone seriously think the stuff on the store is going to be any better than the stuff a paid subscriber can "earn"? I doubt it will be as good, or there would be no incentive to subscribe, and BW still want people to suscribe.

 

Besides all that, you people will cry about anything, seriously. If this brings more players to the game and keeps it up for a while I'm fine with it. I enjoy the game for the most part and I hope it stays open. Heck, I might even keep paying, depending one what content I can and can't get to if I don't pay. Either way, your jealousy is boring, get over yourselves.

 

This game is a business venture, and BW/EA are going to do whatever they think they have to to make money off of it. So accept it and adapt, or just quit and shut up already. Thank you.

[Goretzu]

As a subscriber, you would get unrestricted access to all of the existing game, and free Cartel Points each month. As long as you don't blow your Cartel Points on random crap, you should have more than enough to "purchase" new content updates like Makeb as they come, and it wouldn't cost you anything extra.

 

Except you're discribing somethign like LOTRO.

 

But LOTRO doesn't have subscribers, it has VIP players in a F2P model, which is a very different thing (you basically get more tokens for paying a regular fee week in, week out).

 

What Bioware EA have said so far isn't like LOTRO. It was subscription with F2P.

 

If they are going the LOTRO way then they shouldn't be reducing accounts that go from subs > F2P because as in LOTRO that content is already BOUGHT.

[discosoc]

Then why don't i just unsubscribe and buy cartel points for a much cheaper price?

 

Depending on how you play the game, and how they structure the points and feature costs, that may be a good decision.

 

Remember that free players will have things like restricted back space, character slots, Flashpoints, and Warzones. I don't think any Operations will be available to them. This means that, as a free player, you'll need to unlock those features through cash shop purchases.

 

If, for example, you only do PvP, then it may be a much better deal for you to be a free player and simply buy the Warzones, rather than pay a sub for content that you don't care about (operations and flashpoints).

[Goretzu]

Depending on how you play the game, and how they structure the points and feature costs, that may be a good decision.

 

Remember that free players will have things like restricted back space, character slots, Flashpoints, and Warzones. I don't think any Operations will be available to them. This means that, as a free player, you'll need to unlock those features through cash shop purchases.

 

If, for example, you only do PvP, then it may be a much better deal for you to be a free player and simply buy the Warzones, rather than pay a sub for content that you don't care about (operations and flashpoints).

 

Under the LOTRO model as a prior subscriber you should have access to ALL that content as you have already bought it.

[discosoc]

Except you're discribing somethign like LOTRO.

 

But LOTRO doesn't have subscribers, it has VIP players in a F2P model, which is a very different thing (you basically get more tokens for paying a regular fee week in, week out).

 

What Bioware EA have said so far isn't like LOTRO. It was subscription with F2P.

 

If they are going the LOTRO way then they shouldn't be reducing accounts that go from subs > F2P because as in LOTRO that content is already BOUGHT.

 

LotRO has subscribers. I'm currently one, in fact, on two accounts. My main account is a life-time sub from back in the day, and my daughter's is a monthly recurring. Their "VIP" term is just what they call subscribers; it's nothing more. They have a middle status called "premium" which has fewer restrictions than free players, but not completely unrestricted like VIP players. Generally, VIPs who stop their sub become premium players.

 

Everything I've read about Bioware's plan for the cash shop and F2P model is more or less in line with that basic idea. If they release detailed information that's drastically different, then I will stand corrected. In the mean time, Turbine's F2P conversion of DDO and LotRO are the two best cases of the hybrid sub/F2P model that Bioware has stated they are going to be using.

[Fardarter]

Free to play is a misnomer. If you think EA isn't a business out to make as much money as possible you are in for a surprise. The key thing really is can you play the game as much as you have been normally for the same amount of money you pay today? If you play a lot now and pay 15 bucks a month to do so will you be able to play the same in the future for the same amount of money?

 

If you continue to pay a sub will you be nickel and dimed to death in addition to the subscription cost? Fastest way to kill the game IMO, I doubt you will see it. If the game was really THAT GOOD it wouldn't be facing the problems it is now. If I were them i would offer a limited time lifetime vip membership to players. Expensive, like 200 bucks which will offer in game cash monthly for the life of the game and offer all vip benefits going forward.

 

I have a lifetime membership to lotro and although I dont play that game as much as I once did it is always there for me and I have a ton of in game cash since I get more each month even when not playing.

 

Just remember this, games don't go FTP to make less money they do it to make more. The cash shop will have some pretty compelling products you can be sure of that.

[Goretzu]

LotRO has subscribers. I'm currently one, in fact, on two accounts. My main account is a life-time sub from back in the day, and my daughter's is a monthly recurring. Their "VIP" term is just what they call subscribers; it's nothing more. They have a middle status called "premium" which has fewer restrictions than free players, but not completely unrestricted like VIP players. Generally, VIPs who stop their sub become premium players.

 

Everything I've read about Bioware's plan for the cash shop and F2P model is more or less in line with that basic idea. If they release detailed information that's drastically different, then I will stand corrected. In the mean time, Turbine's F2P conversion of DDO and LotRO are the two best cases of the hybrid sub/F2P model that Bioware has stated they are going to be using.

 

So just to be clear if you're VIP in LOTRO and you stop you then lose access to content you've already bought and paid for?

 

 

 

For example if you have 5 character slots and you stop being a VIP you only then get access to 3 character slots until you either buy them again or become a VIP again?

 

And you lose access to zone you previously had access to as a VIP customer that had bought them (unless you buy them again?)?

Edited August 20, 2012 by Goretzu

[Lostpenguins]

The cash shop will have some pretty compelling products you can be sure of that.

 

If it's vanity items I don't care. If if it's anything beyond vanity (content or items that are BiS) then I will unsub.

[discosoc]

Under the LOTRO model as a prior subscriber you should have access to ALL that content as you have already bought it.

 

And it sounds like Bioware is going to impose roughly the same restrictions. The two games are not exactly equal, however. LotRO has very different PvP, since it's a 1-faction game. Creating a monster character for PvP is available to former subscribers, but they are limited to 1 class out of the 7, i think, available. That's not 1 class of their choice either, it's just the basic fighter orc class.

 

If, as a prior subscriber, you had purchased Mines of Moria, then you were also grandfathered in for that content after F2P. Stuff like restricted bag space, the gold limit, auction house limits, and skirmishes were still restricted to you as a free player, even if you had previously been a subscriber.

 

That's roughly in line with what Bioware is talking about. If you stop subscribing, you can still play 1-50. You can still run flashpoints, but i think HM's and new flashpoints wouldn't be available. Operations you can't do. Bag space is limited, etc..

[HarleysRule]

Under the LOTRO model as a prior subscriber you should have access to ALL that content as you have already bought it.

 

Did they change it? I haven't played LotRO in a year, but when I did my "premium" account didn't have access to the quests in half the SoA zones.

 

LotRO has subscribers. I'm currently one, in fact, on two accounts. My main account is a life-time sub from back in the day, and my daughter's is a monthly recurring. Their "VIP" term is just what they call subscribers; it's nothing more. They have a middle status called "premium" which has fewer restrictions than free players, but not completely unrestricted like VIP players. Generally, VIPs who stop their sub become premium players.

 

Everything I've read about Bioware's plan for the cash shop and F2P model is more or less in line with that basic idea. If they release detailed information that's drastically different, then I will stand corrected. In the mean time, Turbine's F2P conversion of DDO and LotRO are the two best cases of the hybrid sub/F2P model that Bioware has stated they are going to be using.

 

Unfortunately, TOR's model (so far) looks more like AoC's model, which sucks horribly.

Edited August 20, 2012 by HarleysRule

[Goretzu]

And it sounds like Bioware is going to impose roughly the same restrictions. The two games are not exactly equal, however. LotRO has very different PvP, since it's a 1-faction game. Creating a monster character for PvP is available to former subscribers, but they are limited to 1 class out of the 7, i think, available. That's not 1 class of their choice either, it's just the basic fighter orc class.

 

If, as a prior subscriber, you had purchased Mines of Moria, then you were also grandfathered in for that content after F2P. Stuff like restricted bag space, the gold limit, auction house limits, and skirmishes were still restricted to you as a free player, even if you had previously been a subscriber.

 

That's roughly in line with what Bioware is talking about. If you stop subscribing, you can still play 1-50. You can still run flashpoints, but i think HM's and new flashpoints wouldn't be available. Operations you can't do. Bag space is limited, etc..

 

So far Bioware has mention "limiting" character slots per server, bag space, AH, Travel, FPs, space missions and PvP for subs that go to F2P, and no OPs at all.

[Goretzu]

Did they change it? I haven't played LotRO in a year, but when I did my "premium" account didn't have access to the quests in half the SoA zones.

 

Must be that way then, you've got to buy stuff twice.

 

F2P is more horrible than I thought then.

 

 

Unfortunately, TOR's model (so far) looks more like AoC's model, which sucks horribly.

If it's AoC then SWTOR subs that go F2P might well lose access to all their mounts too.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Goretzu

[Taorus]

LotRO has subscribers. I'm currently one, in fact, on two accounts. My main account is a life-time sub from back in the day, and my daughter's is a monthly recurring. Their "VIP" term is just what they call subscribers; it's nothing more. They have a middle status called "premium" which has fewer restrictions than free players, but not completely unrestricted like VIP players. Generally, VIPs who stop their sub become premium players.

 

Everything I've read about Bioware's plan for the cash shop and F2P model is more or less in line with that basic idea. If they release detailed information that's drastically different, then I will stand corrected. In the mean time, Turbine's F2P conversion of DDO and LotRO are the two best cases of the hybrid sub/F2P model that Bioware has stated they are going to be using.

 

As a fellow LotRO....QFT

[SaceDelora]

The lack of a Dev or Community Manager reply in here is scary.

 

I am what you'd call a Fanboy and maybe I should just avoid the forums because y'all tend to always assume the worst. I have returned to SWTOR, and in the span of three weeks reached 50 on a new toon, less than a week after that I had full Columni, and within a week I had full Rakata. Now of course that is based on years of MMO healing experience and good luck that I was able to get into some Ops and the gear I needed happened to drop over several nights, but still, I was able to reach the "raid geared" level in less than 30 days with a brand new toon.

 

That is way too fast. I am a fanboy, but I am frustrated. I own a company and I work 50 hours a week, but I was still able to come home at night, get a couple of levels, and raid at 7pm.

 

As the "new guy" having played at launch but was turned off by the Tanking mechanics and quit before my 28th day was up on my free month, I am frustrated. I want to believe in the future of this game, but the sheer volume of these OMG IT'S PAY2WIN threads is incredible. It's like there is no community management being done here whatsoever.

 

There is a severe break in communication between the community team and the producers who are making these decisions. I have faith in BioWare and in the future of this game, but when threads like this pop up and get no attention to even clarify that the comment was taken out of context (which I think it was) is incredibly scary.

 

This all really looks like y'all are asleep at the wheel up there and that is not the way to keep me paying.

[discosoc]

 

So just to be clear if you're VIP in LOTRO and you stop you then lose access to content you've already bought and paid for?

 

Not at all. Anything you purchase through the cash shop is unlocked forever. Being a VIP, however, does not give you access to any content other than the original game, Shadows of Angmar. So if you are a VIP, and you level to 50, you would need to purchase the Mines of Moria pack to be able to go any further. As a VIP, you were getting free Turbine Points each month though, so by the time you get to that point, you probably has enough TP saved up to either make MoM free or very cheap. Same thing for all additional content.

 

 

 

For example if you have 5 character slots and you stop being a VIP you only then get access to 3 character slots until you either buy them again or become a VIP again?

 

Correct. You wouldn't lose the extra characters, but when you stop subscribing, you will be asked which characters you want to be active.

 

And you lose access to zone you previously had access to as a VIP customer that had bought them (unless you buy them again?)?

 

No. Once you purchase something, it's yours forever. Remember, by default, being a VIP just means you have unrestricted access to the core game. Extra content, like expansions, still need to be purchased. Being VIP makes purchasing the content significantly cheaper though, and sometimes free, due to the free Turbine Points you get each month.

[Gronkaarr]

If they were smart, they would find out what armor models are the most highly sought after (supreme inquisitor's robe, vendetta, etc) and make them available on the cartel shop

[vfrost]

When I first seen 'Legacy" before the second to last beta, it already had Cartel Coins added to it. F2P was already being worked on.

 

from here