They are already discussing milking the subscribers

[thespin]

This is an ongoing point of interest to every player of every MMO.

 

Game Owners run their games for profit and they make decisions based on both long term and short term goals. New content is constantly being developed and released that requires a lot of extra effort to design. New content on a large scale frequently requires additional purchase to offset the cost of designing that content. This is not new in any game, including MMOs.

 

Other decisions made by game owners such as mechanics and what to focus on in smaller updates are more about sustaining the long term health of the game. Developers want happy players because that means they will continue to pay to play the game, and small fixes and updates tell the players that the game is constantly improving, which keeps them around.

 

The only time new content is released on a large scale for free is when the owners are worried about the long term health of the game, so the short term gains from selling new content is sacrificed to rebuild the long term health of the game. I would actually be a little worried about SWTOR's future if major content is added completely free of charge.

[MOPSFounder]

I have to point out that you have a way of shining constant negativity about the game no matter what the aspect it is. I wondered what is the thing that made you so jaded?

 

The games levelig experience is the best one I have witnessed in any MMO, it is one of the few areas may people throw their hatts off to the devs of this game to.

You ask what is the thing that's made me so jaded... it's that I was dropped several times when I was a kid.

 

If you expect to believe that, then I pity you. I don't hate every aspect of this game, but I have a right to bash it and post my opinions and justifications just like every other person here.

[Goretzu]

Just to get it straight they don't charge for it (money) everything is peachy, if they do charge for it (money) it's the end of the world as we know it?

 

But it's not about the money.......

 

Yes.

 

If they don't charge any money it's impossible to rip anybody off.

 

If they do (and do) then it's not about the money, it's about customer respect.

 

See I knew you'd understand in the end, and with a bit of patience and careful explaining you did!

[thespin]

Yes.

 

If they don't charge any money it's impossible to rip anybody off.

 

If they do (and do) then it's not about the money, it's about customer respect.

 

See I knew you'd understand in the end, and with a bit of patience and careful explaining you did!

 

I see it the opposite of you.

 

If they release a large amount of content and don't charge, it is because the devs are just trying to keep a sinking ship up for a while longer. If they do charge, it means the ship is up and ready to weather the storm (of whining from these types of posts).

 

I'm happy to pay to play a game I enjoy. Honestly, I'd be willing to pay up to like 40 bucks a month for the absolute perfect MMO, of course that mmo doesn't exist, so I end up paying just 15 bucks a month for a game I enjoy despite its flaws.

[SilentKitty]

Hmm... I hope people will buy stuff in the store.

 

If I see someone sporting a nice expensive mount or a snazy omg outfit that costs a horrendous amount of Cartel Coins, well then I will do a *thumbs up* because they are putting money towards new content just like me. Hope that players with deep pockets will buy pretty gear for all their comps so we can get more content in the game. It is a business. Since I will continue my subscription, (I vote with my wallet, if I like something I support it) I will most likely pick up gear I find good looking in the shop and other things for the characters that I play. Have been a sub since day 1 so there should be quite a few Cartel Coins for me to play around with. Anyone that buys stuff in the Cartel Shop are putting money towards my guildies getting a new Op and me getting more story content, which is just fine by me.

 

I would be sad if the Cartel Shop was the only means of getting nice looking gear, the only way to get new pets and so on. I would be upset if there was endgame gear but they have already said that it won't happen. So all in all, buy the stuff you like, I will get the stuff that I like and let's hope that it is enough of us supporting the game that we will have new fun content in the game.

[Ephesia]

You ask what is the thing that's made me so jaded... it's that I was dropped several times when I was a kid.

 

If you expect to believe that, then I pity you. I don't hate every aspect of this game, but I have a right to bash it and post my opinions and justifications just like every other person here.

 

Sure that's your right. Save your pity though. There are some people who will downright criticize everything and there are people who will approve of everything. I have not seen a single post of positive feedback from you so far. It's all about how this game is doomed and how bad it is yadayadayada

[vampiric_hoshi]

Comparing an expansion in WoW to an expansion in TOR is apples and pears.

 

One small TOR world with 5 levels worth of content also includes several hours worth of voiced story dialogue.

 

To put that in context with WoW, Makeb is likely to have more voice acting than the entirety of WoW alone.

 

You can expect the voice acting costs for Makeb to be at least 60% of the expansion's development cost. That is why it is at least 60% less than any WoW expansion or content cycle.

 

Simply put, the amount of content in a TOR update doesn't reflect its development cost as obviously as a WoW expansion.

 

Whether BioWare wish to admit it or not, this is fundamentally why making a fully voiced MMO was easily the biggest mistake they made with SWTOR. It has completely hampered their ability to add regular, or any, content in the nine months of launch and will continue to make (what should be large) content or expansions like Makeb look lacking.

 

Until they're prepared to accept their mistake and start adding non-voiced content (it isn't like every single quest is voiced already anyway) this is pretty much what you can expect. Nine months of nothing followed by an incredibly small and feeble looking paid expansion.

[Macabrae]

I know the fans will come in and say... well its an expansion, of course we should pay extra for it. Sorry but 1 planet and a 5 level increase is not an expansion. Its a way to justify milking more money. This is the type of content that we should have gotten all along.

 

 

Tell that to Blizzard. Yes it would be an expansion. A brand new planet and level increase would be an expansion for any game as they are increasing story lines, new gear and mechanics considering you will get more talents and that will have to be balanced as well. There is ALOT of work and programming to do when adding something like that and I don't blame them at all for wanting to be paid for their work. I know I want to be paid for the work I do as well.

[MOPSFounder]

Sure that's your right. Save your pity though. There are some people who will downright criticize everything and there are people who will approve of everything. I have not seen a single post of positive feedback from you so far. It's all about how this game is doomed and how bad it is yadayadayada

I have my reasons why I haven't posted anything more happy like rainbows and Candy Land-esque. I do define myself as a SWTOR Analyst and I"m a hater and lover (whether you believe it or not) of SWTOR. Hater for reasons in my "development timeline" thread and lover for personal preferences.

 

By the way, thanks for following my posts!

Edited September 26, 2012 by MOPSFounder

[Goretzu]

I see it the opposite of you.

 

If they release a large amount of content and don't charge, it is because the devs are just trying to keep a sinking ship up for a while longer. If they do charge, it means the ship is up and ready to weather the storm (of whining from these types of posts).

 

I'm happy to pay to play a game I enjoy. Honestly, I'd be willing to pay up to like 40 bucks a month for the absolute perfect MMO, of course that mmo doesn't exist, so I end up paying just 15 bucks a month for a game I enjoy despite its flaws.

 

 

 

It's absolutely their right to charge for content, but when they've said subscribers will get it for free, it's subscribers right to feel ripped off if it's not.

 

As things stand it sounds like subscribers won't be directly charged, but we'll have to see.

[LogicalPremise]

The bottom line is simple:

 

Do not say one thing and do another.

 

The problem is not charging for the content. The problem is BW making public statements saying subscribers won't pay for the content then turning around and BW making public statements saying subscribers may have to pay for the content.

 

If you haven't figured out whether or not to charge, how hard is it to avoid saying "we probably won't charge for it"? NO ONE would have gotten upset about this entire issue if from the get-go they had said "we'll probably charge for it" and THEN said "y'know, we haven't made up our minds about charging for it or not".

 

Defending them not being able to master public relations by saying "they are a business and have to make money" completely misses the point. Attacking them by saying charging for content is somehow wrong also completely misses the point.

[Jarvus]

They have already said this will not be an expansion and you will not be charged for it.

 

Yeah they said less than a year ago that they were going to have a subscription based model with no cash shop and no microtransactions. How's that working out?

[AlixMV]

All they initally said was they'd be giving you coin for collectors additions and the time you had subbed between Dec 2011 and Nov 2012.

 

Only in a recently have the stated that subscribers in F2P will be getting a monthly allowance of coins as well (like in LOTRO).

 

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that--like I said in my original reply, I recall that text being in the FAQ back on July 31st, the day free-to-play was announced, so if that's your 'recent', I'd be curious to know where you heard prior to the official announcement about the Cartel Coins that it would be in question.

 

 

 

Although this:

 

 

Is somewhat unclear in the context of new content, do they mean subscribers will get it free? Or they will have to buy it with "free" coins? Or something else entirely?

 

I think it's exactly what it says: free-to-play will have to pay for the content, and there is nothing there or what could be read into it as to how it's going to be handled for subscribers. The implication is that it would be free to subscribers, but I wouldn't conclude that without it being stated so explicitly.

[Goretzu]

Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that--like I said in my original reply, I recall that text being in the FAQ back on July 31st, the day free-to-play was announced, so if that's your 'recent', I'd be curious to know where you heard prior to the official announcement about the Cartel Coins that it would be in question.

 

It wasn't in the orginal F2P blub and the FAQ came later.

 

I think it's exactly what it says: free-to-play will have to pay for the content, and there is nothing there or what could be read into it as to how it's going to be handled for subscribers. The implication is that it would be free to subscribers, but I wouldn't conclude that without it being stated so explicitly.

 

Yeah it's impossible to say for sure until details are given.

[Nemmar]

This thread is all based on speculations and i want to tel everyone that doesnt know that subscribers will be getting a set ammount of cartel coins every month. Even if it were to cost additional funds, aslong as you can pay with cartel coins, it ends up beeing free for subscribers, so lets stop the pre-emptive QQ.

[Goretzu]

"Should" is the operative word. But, we know there will be those that have no self control. Then the QQ posts will ensue as to how they are not alotted "enough" Cartel Coins. This will be just another version of those that complain they have not enough "credits" to pay for their characters abilities because they are buisy buying everything in sight off the GTN.

 

Silly Humans.

 

Well you'd have to hope subscribers get at least as many cartel coins per month as spending $15 in the cashshop for them would get you.

 

Because subs are a month in month out income, and as such deserve that much.

[Stenrik]

Well you'd have to hope subscribers get at least as many cartel coins per month as spending $15 in the cashshop for them would get you.

 

Because subs are a month in month out income, and as such deserve that much.

 

Agreed. BW would just introduce uber-expensive items that would tempt us to get 'em earlier than we would if we just used our subs.

[Siorac]

Whether BioWare wish to admit it or not, this is fundamentally why making a fully voiced MMO was easily the biggest mistake they made with SWTOR. It has completely hampered their ability to add regular, or any, content in the nine months of launch and will continue to make (what should be large) content or expansions like Makeb look lacking.

 

Until they're prepared to accept their mistake and start adding non-voiced content (it isn't like every single quest is voiced already anyway) this is pretty much what you can expect. Nine months of nothing followed by an incredibly small and feeble looking paid expansion.

 

Basically, you want them to turn the game into Every Other MMO out there.

 

It's not a mistake, it's one of the attractions of TOR for me. It at least resembles an RPG, unlike the glorified dungeon crawlers like Rift or WoW.

[LadyRaven]

Basically, you want them to turn the game into Every Other MMO out there.

 

It's not a mistake, it's one of the attractions of TOR for me. It at least resembles an RPG, unlike the glorified dungeon crawlers like Rift or WoW.

 

If the game shuts down will you change your mind about the mistake part?

 

The devs already said the voiced content is extremely expensive and takes a long time that's why no new class story content...maybe ever.

 

I liked the idea myself but if they can't afford the "vision" they should...try to make do without or the gates will close.

[Foobert]

Well you'd have to hope subscribers get at least as many cartel coins per month as spending $15 in the cashshop for them would get you.

 

Because subs are a month in month out income, and as such deserve that much.

 

This basically happens with every other F2P MMO that uses the cash-shop model (LOTRO, Perfect World), so as such it's pretty much "industry standard" and I'm pretty sure EAWare is going to follow that paradigm.

[Hystorian]

A quote from F2P FAQ:

Subscribers will continue to have unlimited access to The Old Republic, including new, more frequent content updates that Free-to-Play members will have to buy. Subscribers also receive rewards in the form of monthly Cartel Coin grants, which can be spent at the Cartel Market on new gear styles, consumables, and specialty items.

[Goretzu]

Basically, you want them to turn the game into Every Other MMO out there.

 

It's not a mistake, it's one of the attractions of TOR for me. It at least resembles an RPG, unlike the glorified dungeon crawlers like Rift or WoW.

 

I think what he means is development is slow with fully voiced quests.

 

You can already see this in that some Flashpoints being very story driven, and some being basically what you'd find in a dungeon in WoW (or even EQ1) - i.e. normal dungeons with no or little story of voice acting.

 

You can also see it where they've had to add in terminal quests, probably because they've seen a levelling hold and didn't have time or resources for fully voiced quests to be added.

 

 

 

It's inecapable that fully voiced and animated quest dialogue is going to take longer and cost more, as LOTRO showed with it's book quests.

[Siorac]

If the game shuts down will you change your mind about the mistake part?

 

The devs already said the voiced content is extremely expensive and takes a long time that's why no new class story content...maybe ever.

 

I liked the idea myself but if they can't afford the "vision" they should...try to make do without or the gates will close.

 

They also said they have voice actors tied to long-term contracts... but whatever.

 

No, I won't change my mind. Even if it shuts down: I played a game that I could enjoy. If this was just another "click on questgiver, slaughter 10 rats, click on questgiver to turn it in" MMO, I wouldn't care. This at least tries to pretend it's an RPG. Taking away dialogue and dialogue choices would be the end of it, for me.

 

Of course, I'd welcome the idea of old-school text-based branching dialogue, like Fallout and well, any RPG in the '80s and '90s. But MMO players could not handle that, they basically want a shooter with gear progression. Sad. And dumb.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Siorac

[Goretzu]

This basically happens with every other F2P MMO that uses the cash-shop model (LOTRO, Perfect World), so as such it's pretty much "industry standard" and I'm pretty sure EAWare is going to follow that paradigm.

 

Yeah, hopefully, however:

 

[Andrea]Past performance is no guarantee of future results[/andrea]

[Goretzu]

They also said they have voice actors tied to long-term contracts... but whatever.

 

No, I won't change my mind. Even if it shuts down: I played a game that I could enjoy. If this was just another "click on questgiver, slaughter 10 rats, click on questgiver to turn it in" MMO, I wouldn't care. This at least tries to pretend it's an RPG. Taking away dialogue and dialogue choices would be the end of it, for me.

 

Of course, I'd welcome the idea of old-school text-based branching dialogue, like Fallout and well, any RPG in the '80s and '90s. But MMO players could not handle that, they basically want a shooter with gear progression. Sad. And dumb.

 

 

 

It's inevitable that it's going to be slow, that's why at this point there is no class story advancement on the horizon (Makeb will have planet story only apparently), which is understandable as it's 8x the work or already development heavy voiced and animated quests.

 

The other down side is that it is unlikely SWTOR will ever see new classes, as the amount of work to get a new class from L1 to L50 class story development-wise would be monsterous.

 

 

 

I think it is inevitably that SWTOR is going to have to move away from it, and we'll see more terminal type quests and old school type FPs, the remaining Devs seem to be already hinting at this.