They are already discussing milking the subscribers

[DorkTrooper]

Mini-Update? And youre getting this newsflash from where exactly? Impressive...

 

I'm referring to updates similar to 1.4. To me, this is a mini-update, because it likely does not contain additional class story quests (from what I've read). As referenced in the OP's newsflash, EA might be considering charging subs additionally for updates with planet quests, ops, quality of life features, etc. The class quest is the main draw for me, so I'm unlikely to even consider paying extra for anything less than that.

 

A majority of MMO players seem to like, or at least accept, the FTP/BTP/freemium model. I do not. Much as I enjoy the game, my continued support of the game depends greatly on how the cash shop will be handled.

 

Anyway my point is that this content update, in my humble opinion, is not an expansion, now you can argue with me as much as you want but that will hardly change my opinion. Thereby I believe that as loyal subscribers we should be getting it for free.

 

This.

Edited September 24, 2012 by DorkTrooper

[Surakis]

Trust me I dont want much LOL. All I ever wanted from a ToR expansion is for them to continue the class stories, add a fourth chapter. I dont want 364 new planets, 567 new war zones and 875 new flash points. Hell I dont even want new planets. Give me a fourth chapter, more companion quests and if they can a new companion and they have me. For that I would gladly pay. Of course it would be nice having new planets, FPs, Operations and stuff like that but they are not necessary for someone like me. For me the story has always been the heart of this game. Anyway my point is that this content update, in my humble opinion, is not an expansion, now you can argue with me as much as you want but that will hardly change my opinion. Thereby I believe that as loyal subscribers we should be getting it for free.

 

Funny how you redefine a meaning that magicaly benifits you.... "If I don't call it an expansion I can demand I get it free!!!!"

 

Yeah....

[TUXs]

Funny how you redefine a meaning that magicaly benifits you.... "If I don't call it an expansion I can demand I get it free!!!!"

 

Yeah....

 

What's "funny" is how you insinuate he demanded anything. He quite obviously said (in what you quoted) "Thereby I believe that as loyal subscribers we should be getting it for free." and even said it was HIS OPINION a number of times. No magic. No demands. Just his opinion, which you're free to disagree with, just don't twist it.

[kevlarto]

This will be such a matter of opnion, like what makes an item a p2w item, ask 10 players you get 10 different answers, and why would any one be surprised that huge greedy company would not try to milk subscribers, or any one else they can milk.. ./shrug

[Eightus]

Funny how you redefine a meaning that magicaly benifits you.... "If I don't call it an expansion I can demand I get it free!!!!"

 

Yeah....

 

First off I wasnt redefining or demanding anything, let alone something that would "magically" benefit me. I was simply stating my opinion. Secondly can you please enlighten me on what the official meaning of a gaming expansion is, as you seem to be very familiar with it.

[Surakis]

What's "funny" is how you insinuate he demanded anything. He quite obviously said (in what you quoted) "Thereby I believe that as loyal subscribers we should be getting it for free." and even said it was HIS OPINION a number of times. No magic. No demands. Just his opinion, which you're free to disagree with, just don't twist it.

 

Why would you say the poster didn't say something and then quote him saying it? Seems counter productive to whatever point you really wanted to make.

[Surakis]

First off I wasnt redefining......

 

"[The expansion] is not an expansion"

 

Good thing you're not saying that. It be weird if you were... oh... wait....

[AlixMV]

Have they actually said subscribers will be getting monthly coins.

 

They've said that they'll getting one off coins for the time they have been subbed (prior to F2P), but that's a rather different thing?

 

From -- Hyperspace Beacon: SWTOR's Gabe Amatangelo on 1.4 and free-to-play

 

Or even more directly to the source:

 

http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6468

 

If I’m a current subscriber, what will happen to me?

 

Subscribers will continue to have unlimited access to The Old Republic, including new, more frequent content updates that Free-to-Play members will have to buy. Subscribers also receive rewards in the form of monthly Cartel Coin grants, which can be spent at the Cartel Market on new gear styles, consumables, and specialty items.

 

I just caught up (or mostly caught up) on this thread thanks to the recent postings, but my reaction to it can be summed up by this response I read from over a month ago:

 

Better to wait and see what occurs...then getting in a tizzy over statements not yet complete.

 

A bunch of what I saw/ read were people getting upset because one person associated with SWTOR said they were still discussing how things were going to be going forward--something that a company should do from time to time (stagnate or die)--and then speculating on the negative side of things.

 

If they instead decide to not charge for the free content updates, all these promises of unsubs and dire threats nets the community...what exactly?

 

Really, the whole thing boils down to simple economics: supply and demand. They're a company, they're trying to turn a profit. Yes, they are are going to try to milk the subscribers--because that's the relationship between companies and customers. How much will the market bear? At what points can we get more money out of them vs. their pain point to make them unsubscribe? How many players do we need to retain to stay profitable, and how much money can we get from the freemium Cartel Coin shop to make up for the loss of monthly subscribers?

 

Rather than speculate wildly on what might happen and souring yourself (possibly for no reason at all)...wait and find out what really is going to happen. Decide at that point if you want to continue to subscribe. And, if not, then quit. No drama. No fuss.

 

Until then, try to enjoy a game you probably pay less for on a per hour basis of entertainment than, say, a movie at a theater. Or a good meal. Or a game ticket to your local professional sports team.

[Eightus]

"[The expansion] is not an expansion"

 

Good thing you're not saying that. It be weird if you were... oh... wait....

 

I said the content update is not an expansion. For you it might be for me it is not, it is called having an opinion, but wait I dont think you are familiar with that concept at all. I feel like Ive been trying to teach a budgerigar how to speak, he can repeat but he can never understand the true meaning of the words. Sad really...

[Surakis]

You would be fine if they called 1.4 an expansion and charged you $39.99 for it?

 

Read the thread.

[Surakis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_pack

[Nemmar]

I originally expected to have to pay for it, as it sounded like a mini expansion. Then they told us its a free content patch and all content is free to subscribers.

 

Tbh if its like 5-10 pounds (10-15$) I don't mind much but I'd still call it a bit of a shady move.

 

However if its just like 500 cartel coins I wouldn't mind, ill just save all of mine till then to make sure.

 

Indeed. As subscribers, we will get "free" cartel coins every month after F2P aswell, so either way, aslong as it costs cartel coins, we should be able to get it free of charge.

[Vis-Tecum]

the fact that it is still in discussion shows that there is someone at bioware fighting for the players. I think the devs want to provide free content but the finacial side might be looking to monitize what ever they can. if new content brings in subscribers I think the ones fighting for the players will start winning more battles. that said once the game has a cash shop everyone will be milked for all they are worth, subscription or not.

 

I am really not as concerned about the content as I am over random bags in the cash shop, RNG sucks no matter how its applied, i thought this was obvious with the battlemaster bags but they just keep trying to push RNG on players. and RNG for real money should be criminal [looking at you masseffect]

 

the truth is we have not been charged yet for one single feature or bit of content and were given extra character slots for free, something I dont think any free to play game has ever done. [im not including the free tranfers because that was a merger just done... oddly] bioware even said [i think it was blain christine in the live stream] that the character transfer system was not at a high enough quality to charge as a paid service. that says to me they are being very responsible and not just "milking subscribers"

 

there are so many things they could have monitized at this point but have not

Edited September 24, 2012 by Vis-Tecum

[Andryah]

It is not so much "the amount", it's the accuracy. Just look at GA's history of "getting things right" in "interviews" or the ability to write clear posts as to what is going on with patches (see the kerfuffle that was the final server merge).

 

Clearer writing is needed. Also they need to give EVERYONE that is doing interviews "talking points" and not let them go off message so as to quell much of the "speculation".

 

They really need a proffesional PR person because they sure don't seem to have one now.

 

 

Which is why they should say less honestly. No matter how they write it (and I agree they need some practice in trying to be ambiguity free) there will people that will read into it what they want, read around it to get to hyperbole, and read under it just to undermine it for the sake of undermining it.

 

As to the ambiguity free part of improving communicatons, you have to consider the wide range of the audience. So I stand by my view that they need to bring it down to third grade level and write it with neon crayon font colors and lots and lots of pictures.

[Andryah]

the fact that it is still in discussion shows that there is someone at bioware fighting for the players. I think the devs want to provide free content but the finacial side might be looking to monitize what ever they can. if new content brings in subscribers I think the ones fighting for the players will start winning more battles. that said once the game has a cash shop everyone will be milked for all they are worth, subscription or not.

 

I think it is more about them evolving their content development and expansion plans. Which is common in MMOs, so I really don't see why some people are so wound up about it. Content ideas are developed, and some are brought forward sooner and some later. Some start out as patch style content (ie: free) and evolve and expand to the point that they are bundled into a future paid expansion. It's the nature of the business.

 

I find i funny how some people are so intent on declaring what they will/will-not accept as free content vs a full fledged paid expansion. If they take Makeb, Cathar, maybe another race or two, a level cap increase, and gobs of new content (including new story arcs) and bundle it all together... it looks and smells like a classic paid expansion by normal MMO definition. People need to be less righteous about it IMO, and stop applying double standards between SWTOR and other MMOs.

[Cran]

 

the truth is we have not been charged yet for one single feature or bit of content and were given extra character slots for free, something I dont think any free to play game has ever done. [im not including the free tranfers because that was a merger just done... oddly] bioware even said [i think it was blain christine in the live stream] that the character transfer system was not at a high enough quality to charge as a paid service. that says to me they are being very responsible and not just "milking subscribers"

 

there are so many things they could have monitized at this point but have not

 

Uh... you haven't been charged for any content so far? Please tell me how to do it, because I have. I pay a monthly fee to play this game. So I've been charged for everything, including four new character slots, they were not given to me "for free". The game isn't F2P yet, it will be in the future.

[Vis-Tecum]

Uh... you haven't been charged for any content so far? Please tell me how to do it, because I have. I pay a monthly fee to play this game. So I've been charged for everything, including four new character slots, they were not given to me "for free". The game isn't F2P yet, it will be in the future.

 

/sigh, facepalm, rolls eyes... what ever people think is hip nowadays

Edited September 25, 2012 by Vis-Tecum

[Andryah]

Uh... you haven't been charged for any content so far? Please tell me how to do it, because I have. I pay a monthly fee to play this game. So I've been charged for everything, including four new character slots, they were not given to me "for free". The game isn't F2P yet, it will be in the future.

 

The context here is people predicting and then complainging about content that you would have to pay for above and beyond your monthly sub. And the previous poster is correct, I do not know of an MMO that gave more charcter slots that was not part of a paid expansion.

[Etheric]

As far as i'm concerned they can monetize whatever they wish, hey if they wanna give us more load screens and call that an expansion, be my guest. I don't have to buy it, that's my choice, one i am willing to make ( this isn't a life altering decision in the making here, its a game ) I didn't buy the AoC X-pack cause it looked lame, honestly i looked at the direction AoC was headed, cancelled my sub, un-installed, threw the disks in the garbage and never looked back.

 

I am happy some here in this thread refuse to take this laying down. I think its admirable that you stand your ground and voice your opinion, but realize the people behind this game are going to do what their going to do. Its their game and their buisness to run and operate. If they want to run it into the ground, again be my guest., have at it with your bad self. I don't know what unemployment pays in texas, but don't worry they eat ALOT of meat in texas and you can always get a job flippin burgers.

 

I am also as equally happy for the people in this thread who realize their sheep. I know this sounds funny but i'm serious, If we were all self assured, society wouldn't work, leaders need someone to lead and preditors need something to eat. Your good at being led by the nose and one should always play to their strengths. Don't let anyone ever put you down for being a sheep, you play an important role, Lamb chops are yummy especially with a plum glaze

 

I for one am not a Cow and will not be milked, Yes i might be a fool for staying with this game for as long as i have, but i'm a bull and no thats not milk.

[Goretzu]

Or even more directly to the source:

 

http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6468

 

 

 

I just caught up (or mostly caught up) on this thread thanks to the recent postings, but my reaction to it can be summed up by this response I read from over a month ago:

 

 

 

A bunch of what I saw/ read were people getting upset because one person associated with SWTOR said they were still discussing how things were going to be going forward--something that a company should do from time to time (stagnate or die)--and then speculating on the negative side of things.

 

If they instead decide to not charge for the free content updates, all these promises of unsubs and dire threats nets the community...what exactly?

 

Really, the whole thing boils down to simple economics: supply and demand. They're a company, they're trying to turn a profit. Yes, they are are going to try to milk the subscribers--because that's the relationship between companies and customers. How much will the market bear? At what points can we get more money out of them vs. their pain point to make them unsubscribe? How many players do we need to retain to stay profitable, and how much money can we get from the freemium Cartel Coin shop to make up for the loss of monthly subscribers?

 

Rather than speculate wildly on what might happen and souring yourself (possibly for no reason at all)...wait and find out what really is going to happen. Decide at that point if you want to continue to subscribe. And, if not, then quit. No drama. No fuss.

 

Until then, try to enjoy a game you probably pay less for on a per hour basis of entertainment than, say, a movie at a theater. Or a good meal. Or a game ticket to your local professional sports team.

 

 

 

Not always.

 

 

It may well have been that they WEREN'T intending to give out a month amount of cartel coins to subscribers UNTIL they saw and read threads like this very one.

 

And then they decided too!

[Goretzu]

The context here is people predicting and then complainging about content that you would have to pay for above and beyond your monthly sub. And the previous poster is correct, I do not know of an MMO that gave more charcter slots that was not part of a paid expansion.

 

Warhammer Online did.......... but that was only after server mergers.

[Digimanbyte_ID]

Doubtful they would ask current subs to keep paying for extra content, especially when its far more successful to deny F2play customers access to further content. Otherwise their wouldn't be a discussion they would just do it. I think its more of whether they plan to give free to loyal subscribers and not the ones who just jump on as soon as it gets great.

 

Either way I know that current subs won't have to pay for that major content but more about which extras within that content, such as gear looks, moods, emotes, starship skins, some items that do vanity stuff for fun. Hell even something like letting you ride a taunton that bleeds out instead of exploding.

[Larity]

I'd buy it.

I have a job with a steady income so its not going to bother me.

 

Maybe some people should get one and then be able to spend a few extra bucks on it?

 

Whiners will be whiners i guess.

[Goretzu]

I'd buy it.

I have a job with a steady income so its not going to bother me.

 

Maybe some people should get one and then be able to spend a few extra bucks on it?

 

Whiners will be whiners i guess.

 

 

It's not about money, it's about respect for your customers.

 

MMORPG subs are cheap enough that most people could easily run 2-3 at a time if they wanted to and probably not really notice the outgoing, but that's still no excuse to rip people off (or for customers not to be annoyed if things are changed), fortunately it looks like they are going with the better of the F2P/cashshop models at the moment.

[Urael]

If they are giving subscribers cartel coins (which they now say they are), and they are following the DDO/LOTRO model where you can buy new content with cartel coins (which would be the sensible option), then it shouldn't be an issue.

 

As a subscriber should be able to save up and buy new content with "free" cartel coins.

 

"Should" is the operative word. But, we know there will be those that have no self control. Then the QQ posts will ensue as to how they are not alotted "enough" Cartel Coins. This will be just another version of those that complain they have not enough "credits" to pay for their characters abilities because they are buisy buying everything in sight off the GTN.

 

Silly Humans.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Urael