They are already discussing milking the subscribers

[Styxx]

Well, BW has said during the gamescom interview that the Makeb update had more content than most games presented at the gamescom.

Secondly, they are still trying to decide whether or not they should charge people with subs for this particular update as apparently it's large enough to count as an expansion.

 

BW say a lot of things, I realise that, but it would even go beyond their poor communication to end up reducing this to a simple small update.

 

They also said each class has 200 hours worth of play.

 

What they "forgot" to say is that it counts ALL QUESTS on ALL PLANETS. Because there aren`t 200 hours in 5 quests per planet worth of class story arc.

 

So, the correct wording would have been : 200 hours worth of playing PER SIDE. Then it drops to about 24 per any 2nd and up toon.

 

It`s not like they don`t have the correct definition for "content" and how to gauge it...

[Blackardin]

They also said each class has 200 hours worth of play.

 

What they "forgot" to say is that it counts ALL QUESTS on ALL PLANETS. Because there aren`t 200 hours in 5 quests per planet worth of class story arc.

 

So, the correct wording would have been : 200 hours worth of playing PER SIDE. Then it drops to about 24 per any 2nd and up toon.

 

It`s not like they don`t have the correct definition for "content" and how to gauge it...

 

Can you quote the source on this. I'd be interested in reading it.

[United_Strafes]

They have already said this will not be an expansion and you will not be charged for it.

 

Really? Because in the quote in the OP looks like that's not what they're saying at all.......

[Styxx]

It may not be a full expansion, but it's more than "just a patch", too. I'd part with $5-10 for it. New zones and level cap increases are the main part of expansions.

 

OK, let`s clear things a bit:

 

A subbed player will get access to what it ALREADY has, by any of the following: EARNED grind /EARNED raid / BOUGHT / earned Legacy / BOUGHT bank slots / BOUGHT char inventory. Or in general, what it is already hers / his. Which is an issue in itself, since it`s not that nice to limit access to something that is an investment, or was seen as an investment PRIOR to having been turned into "premium".

 

So, what other reason is there to keep a sub? Because, how I see it, there isn`t any except access FOR FREE (not free anyway, but for 15$ a month) to ANY and ALL future content.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Styxx

[Styxx]

Can you quote the source on this. I'd be interested in reading it.

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-29-ea-200-hours-of-play-per-swtor-class

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-200-hours-of-gameplay--for-each-class/

Edited August 22, 2012 by Styxx

[Blackardin]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-29-ea-200-hours-of-play-per-swtor-class

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/star-wars-the-old-republic-has-200-hours-of-gameplay--for-each-class/

 

What I'm asking is where it stated, or what proof there is that it drops to 24 hours per side for one's second toon. I have a number of alts and I'm not seeing this at all.

 

Further, that time does not include all the peripheral aspects of the game, just actual questing. One cannot complete the game without the side quests and they vary from class to class. There are FP's that one would want to do with every toon, gear to achieve etc. There are differing side quests. so I'm trying to figure out where you are going with this and what indication you may have seen that demonstrates a different outcome then I am experiencing. Are you saying that you can go from 1 to 50 in 24 hours played just doing class quests?

Edited August 22, 2012 by Blackardin

[GalacticKegger]

What I'm asking is where it stated, or what proof there is that it drops to 24 hours per side for one's second toon. I have a number of alts and I'm not seeing this at all.

 

Further, that time does not include all the peripheral aspects of the game, just actual questing. One cannot complete the game without the side quests and they vary from class to class. There are FP's that one would want to do with every toon, gear to achieve etc. There are differing side quests. so I'm trying to figure out where you are going with this and what indication you may have seen that demonstrates a different outcome then I am experiencing. Are you saying that you can go from 1 to 50 in 24 hours played just doing class quests?

The puzzlement imho isn't where they are going with it. The puzzlement is why they are going there. Seems some are so bitterly virulent that they appear happy to spend hours upon hours in a forum of all places trying to prove how bad something else is. Even to the point of fabrication. One is defined by what they believe in. If one believes in negativity to the extent that they would preach it ... to each their own I suppose. Edited August 22, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Styxx]

What I'm asking is where it stated, or what proof there is that it drops to 24 hours per side for one's second toon. I have a number of alts and I'm not seeing this at all.

 

Further, that time does not include all the peripheral aspects of the game, just actual questing. One cannot complete the game without the side quests and they vary from class to class. There are FP's that one would want to do with every toon, gear to achieve etc. There are differing side quests. so I'm trying to figure out where you are going with this and what indication you may have seen that demonstrates a different outcome then I am experiencing. Are you saying that you can go from 1 to 50 in 24 hours played just doing class quests?

 

Yes. Speed might vary, but, if you are to do STRICTLY your class quests, it does not amount to 200 hours. After all, it`s only 5 quests per planet. So, ALL your class amounts to about 75 quests. That`s roughly 2 planets worth of quests. And it doesn`t go any close to 200 hours.

 

"Are you saying that you can go from 1 to 50 in 24 hours played just doing class quests?"

 

No. I am saying that by ONLY doing class quests you can`t come anywhere near 200 hours of content. You need to do ALL content on ALL planets to get to 50. Hell... you can`t even get to Quesh if you are not lvl 33 or higher. But, if you read the original post.. I never claimed you can. I only stated that you have the claimed 200 hours true only ONE TIME per side - for ONE level 50, as "new" content. The rest is a repeat of the same old filler quests.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Styxx

[Blackardin]

Yes. Speed might vary, but, if you are to do STRICTLY your class quests, it does not amount to 200 hours. .

 

I don't see the relevance to this. The game was not intended to, and they did not state that "class quests" would fill 200 hours. It seems that you assumed this on your own and are now assuming a deceptive tactic was used as a result of your first assumption.

 

They stated that there is 200 hours of base content per class. There is.

[GalacticKegger]

Yes. Speed might vary, but, if you are to do STRICTLY your class quests, it does not amount to 200 hours. After all, it`s only 5 quests per planet. So, ALL your class amounts to about 75 quests. That`s roughly 2 planets worth of quests. And it doesn`t go any close to 200 hours.

There was no statement associated with Bioware's pub that the mentioned 200 hours was limited exclusively to class storylines - only the exclusion of crafting, raids and multiplayer. That means planet and side quests may or may not be included. The words "exclusive to class quests" were never used or implied. I've averaged playing 20 hours a week since day 1 of early access and have yet to do everything there is to do in this game. Edited August 22, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Blackardin]

The puzzlement imho isn't where they are going with it. The puzzlement is why they are going there. Seems some are so bitterly virulent that they appear happy to spend hours upon hours in a forum of all places trying to prove how bad something else is. Even to the point of fabrication. One is defined by what they believe in. If one believes in negativity to the extent that they would preach it ... to each their own I suppose.

 

It certainly is a study. If one were to extract the hyperbole, conjecture, fabrication, and mind projection fallacies from this board it would appear as dead as they promulgate the game to be. ;p

[Styxx]

I don't see the relevance to this. The game was not intended to, and they did not state that "class quests" would fill 200 hours. It seems that you assumed this on your own and are now assuming a deceptive tactic was used as a result of your first assumption.

 

They stated that there is 200 hours of base content per class. There is.

 

"You look at a game that has 200 hours of gameplay for each of the six classes

Out of those 200 hours, you get repeating content. Like the other quests that are not class quest. Which are the very vast majority.

 

Example: If I am to level 8 imp toons = past the first level 50 I have to repeat the same quests 7 more times - if I am not counting class quests.

 

Furthermore, ASSUMING I am Superman and I can fly through them, or find, *GASP*, a friend, to boost me... I HAVE to level at least to 33 midway, because you don`t get vaccine upon trying to get to Quesh`s surface. So, we even have artificial level limitations ingame.

 

So, no, we don`t have 200 per class. We have 200 per side, because anything past the first 50 is the same repeat of the same filler quests. So, yes, he is counting the same thing 7 times

Edited August 22, 2012 by Styxx

[Styxx]

There was no statement associated with Bioware's pub that the mentioned 200 hours was limited exclusively to class storylines - only the exclusion of crafting, raids and multiplayer. That means planet and side quests may or may not be included. The words "exclusive to class quests" were never used or implied. I've averaged playing 20 hours a week since day 1 of early access and have yet to do everything there is to do in this game.

 

"You look at a game that has 200 hours of gameplay for each of the six classes"

He does mention 200 hours for each of the classes. Which is not precisely the case, unless you repeat content. Which is what I was saying all along

[GalacticKegger]

It certainly is a study. If one were to extract the hyperbole, conjecture, fabrication, and mind projection fallacies from this board it would appear as dead as they promulgate the game to be. ;p

Hehe. Probably because the vast majority of those who would contribute positively with a diligence equal to those who crusade against it are too busy playing to even bother. Edited August 22, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[GalacticKegger]

He does mention 200 hours for each of the classes. Which is not precisely the case, unless you repeat content. Which is what I was saying all along

In matters of precision with regard to a year-old quote about projected gameplay ... it really does not matter. At least to gamers like myself who have no desire to pick something apart to the point where it can't be put back together again.

 

In reference to Mr. Gibeau's comments, I see my 200 hours per character as a whole with numerous interchangable parts: like planet questlines with their repeatable heroics, as well as volumes of side quests and the often humorous VA dialogue interactions they all have. I personally doubt there is any developer who would ludicrously claim that their 8 month old MMO has 200 hours of gameplay for each of its 8 classes that no other class will ever see. To purely assume as much from a statement that doesn't come right out and say it is, well ... pure assumption.

Edited August 22, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Karkais]

OK, let`s clear things a bit:

 

A subbed player will get access to what it ALREADY has, by any of the following: EARNED grind /EARNED raid / BOUGHT / earned Legacy / BOUGHT bank slots / BOUGHT char inventory. Or in general, what it is already hers / his. Which is an issue in itself, since it`s not that nice to limit access to something that is an investment, or was seen as an investment PRIOR to having been turned into "premium".

 

So, what other reason is there to keep a sub? Because, how I see it, there isn`t any except access FOR FREE (not free anyway, but for 15$ a month) to ANY and ALL future content.

 

Which is the standard method for P2P MMOs as far as I can see. If you are a subscriber (or premium member or whatever) you usually get free access to all new storycontent or anything that resembles quests, flashpoints or ops etc. F2P people have to pay for those.

 

Even subscribers can have stuff they have to pay for, but its usually vanity/utility, like extra character slots, xp boost potions, name changes, costumes etc. This is how it is in other pay2play MMOs, and I would be very surprised if same wouldn't apply here.

[Elyx]

It certainly is a study. If one were to extract the hyperbole, conjecture, fabrication, and mind projection fallacies from this board it would appear as dead as they promulgate the game to be. ;p

 

Probably even less.

 

the studies I've seen show that regular forum posters account for roughly 5-10% of a games actual populace. and most of the post here are usually hyperbole or conjecture, or simply opinionated ranting. It would be interesting to pull out the details and see how much of the actual forum posting is from a very small group of accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if 3/4 of the posts here are actually regularly posted by 1-2% of the actual playerbase, max. the other 1/4 is probably a scattering of players that would still put it under the 10% mark.

 

But I'm too lazy to manually do the research myself, so i guess I just added another opinionated point of conjecture

Edited August 22, 2012 by Elyx

[Goretzu]

Probably even less.

 

the studies I've seen show that regular forum posters account for roughly 5-10% of a games actual populace. and most of the post here are usually hyperbole or conjecture, or simply opinionated ranting. It would be interesting to pull out the details and see how much of the actual forum posting is from a very small group of accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if 3/4 of the posts here are actually regularly posted by 1-2% of the actual playerbase, max. the other 1/4 is probably a scattering of players that would still put it under the 10% mark.

 

But I'm too lazy to manually do the research myself, so i guess I just added another opinionated point of conjecture

 

Which is strange when people were blaming the forums for making 1.7m people quit the game.

[Soluss]

Probably even less.

 

the studies I've seen show that regular forum posters account for roughly 5-10% of a games actual populace. and most of the post here are usually hyperbole or conjecture, or simply opinionated ranting. It would be interesting to pull out the details and see how much of the actual forum posting is from a very small group of accounts. I wouldn't be surprised if 3/4 of the posts here are actually regularly posted by 1-2% of the actual playerbase, max. the other 1/4 is probably a scattering of players that would still put it under the 10% mark.

 

But I'm too lazy to manually do the research myself, so i guess I just added another opinionated point of conjecture

 

Out of ~2.4 million box sales there are ~500k subs left. That speaks volumes.

[BigfootNZ]

Im already gone, so this Makeb issue regardless of how it works out wont effect me but given how the forums are currently this particular video is rather apt.

 

Jimquisition, Why Boycotts Fail Where Whining Tantrums Win

 

While I agree with the guy, I personally think EA/Activision Bioware/Blizzard have become monsters in the guppy pool and the sooner they go belly up the better for the entire industry (Hey I loved Bioware and feel for its employees, Pre EA acquisition I bought alot of their stuff and it was heaven... but now its like a family dog you own who becomes dangerous, you just have to let them go).

 

At least it appears whining has made SOME minor changes recently, or at least they've started caking their pants a little and pulling their thumbs out. Still think a mass boycott is needed, and given the way their going... it'll happen naturally.

 

The industry needs a house clean, and its refreshing to see the majority wont stand for immoral or just dubious business practices... regardless of how legal or acceptable it might be in a capitalist system.

 

Ps:- If there are any EA apologists or people who want to see a little more of EA, take a look at Jimquisitions other few vid rants about EA, might open your eyes. Dont have to agree with him, but might clear up why alot of us have no real hope or trust for this game with EA as its task master. yeah i bought the game, but hey i thought Bioware... must have some clout in this partnership so its all good. I was an optimist

Edited August 22, 2012 by BigfootNZ

[ShaideCa]

They are shooting them self in the foot for even suggesting subs pay for Makeb.

 

Unless they bring in a whole new sector for us with as much planets as we got now plus another 50 hours of class story. Than its not an expansion.

 

Its just a content patch our subs help to pay for.

 

Yes, because CLEARLY Every expansion pack DOUBLES the content of the core pack!

 

You clearly know nothing about expansion packs. Most expansion packs include between 5-10 level of additional content, as well as a 5-10 level cap increase. However, most expansions also include a new race/class(We are already getting the Cathar, Which despite peoples whining, I am actually looking forward to. I wish the race had a different voice, because I can see a Cathar sounding so perfectly human, but that applies to all the races in game(And sadly why the majority of my chars are human or cyborg..they could add a voice changer like they do when someone wears a helmet or rebreather)

 

Also, Expansion packs don't contain the same amount of quests and land mass as the core game..if they did it would be a sequel not an expansion pack. Most expansions contain a new starting area, a little reworking of older quests and one LARGE new area. From my understanding, there won't be a new starting location or reworks of old quests, however I wouldn't say this prevents it from being an expansion pack.

 

What is the size of this new planet? How much content will be there? Will it be story based or another PVP world? Just a raid world for end gaming or will it have SOLO content to expand on each classes story(Perhaps a 4th chapter?) I don't know any of this. If it does have that though, it IS an expansion by the same standards of every other expansion released by any other MMO.

[Utania]

So all the time I've been playing there have been comments from the game developers about regular updates to content that have failed to materialise.

 

The world event this month was less than an evenings game play even queueing for the open world events, coupled with there being bugs and only just receiving the "twist" in the email last night after completing it a week ago.

 

My subscription lapses in a couple of days and it is to the point now where they would need a big injection of content to keep me as a sub, there is a real lack of end game content

 

It feels like they have stored up all these little bits of contents and will release them all in one go and possibly charge for it, if they do it would certainly leave a bad taste in the mouth.

[Goretzu]

Yes, because CLEARLY Every expansion pack DOUBLES the content of the core pack!

 

Traditionally an MMORPG "expansion" puts out between 50% and 100% of the orginal vanilla square-footage.

 

Adventure pack and such are much smaller.

[Vespassian]

If they charge for the new content patch, I don't think I'll be paying for it... That's ridiculous. Everyone that is still paying the game held through the garbage-like moments in this game's short history.

However! If they charge through earning Cartel Coins, then I might reconsider. That being said, unless charging the content with IRL dollars/pounds/w.e is their way of throwing the bomb to make a few more bucks and cut the game after that. Think with those noggins BEAware.

[Daekarus]

The thing that pisses me off is this has nothing to do with Bioware. The soul-sucking game-wreckers at EA are just doing as usual, dictating to their pet studios regarding things about which they know nothing. I hope every EA exec burns in he... I mean, falls into a Sarlacc.

 

I would like to think that they are still in-touch enough to realize that it would be disastrous to charge for this upcoming content.