They are already discussing milking the subscribers

[Goretzu]

Which highlights an interesting point about the MMO community IMO.

 

They say if you give them content, they will stay and play. Yet, they don't.

 

Rift suffered ~65% attrition in it's first 6-8 months, all the while content continued to stream. it gets a lot of credit as an MMO that knows how to push good content, yet even today, it's at about 30% of it's launch population. It's fairly stable, but all those alleged loyal content junkies, they never came back to the game.

 

Is that Trion's fault?? or is that on the community??

 

 

They copied WoW, same mistake as SWTOR, unfortunately for Trion their IP has nothing like the hook of SW (or Warcraft for that matter).

 

If they'd made a genuinely innovative game, or had some of the more innovative stuff in a release things might have been different.

 

But nothing will ever out-WoW WoW, not even WoW2 if Blizzard ever dare to make it.

[mothear]

Yes two new zones,two new races 5 dungeons and 2 small...very small raids. Yes the re-did the old zones(they had to make flying and other things work) But that is not new content...just old re-hashed rubbish. after waiting for 11 months Between LK and the X-pac...11 months. Makeb we know little..next to nothing, But lets see New Planet(Multi-Zones) uncertain new levels...Cathar(New Race)...for what may...Or may not be a additional cost. Looks like something folks have already in the market purchase.

 

 

OK as you still seem to find it difficult

 

- 2 new races

- An underwater zone - Hyjal - Stonecore - Uldham - The final zone, I don't remember the name of - thats 5 not 2

- archeology - giving pets, novelty items and some BiS equipment

- all professions raised to new levels with new items to create, farm

- A new PvP area

- 3 new raids, plus the one boss raid in the PvP area

- 6 new dungeons, with HM and 2 reskinned HM dungeons of existing lower level dungeons

- 2 new warzones

 

I'm sure others will say if I missed anything.

[Surakis]

OK as you still seem to find it difficult

 

- 2 new races

- An underwater zone - Hyjal - Stonecore - Uldham - The final zone, I don't remember the name of - thats 5 not 2

- archeology - giving pets, novelty items and some BiS equipment

- all professions raised to new levels with new items to create, farm

- A new PvP area

- 3 new raids, plus the one boss raid in the PvP area

- 6 new dungeons, with HM and 2 reskinned HM dungeons of existing lower level dungeons

- 2 new warzones

 

I'm sure others will say if I missed anything.

 

If they're the same price.... if it's 39.99 I would expect 39.99 of new content. If it's 9.99.... my expectations change....

[Shadezilla]

If they're the same price.... if it's 39.99 I would expect 39.99 of new content. If it's 9.99.... my expectations change....

 

For sure as would any reasonable person, and myself or Mothear are not trying to White Knight WoW but for Tarous to say:

 

So...lacking any evidence you are going to continue hyperbole and fear mongering.

And WoW did it with Cataclysm, Two very small leveling zones...and 5 levels....but they did it for $39.99US.

 

Which isn't accurate at all and is just as hyperbolic. From what they have told us which is granted very little it does not sound like it matches up well with what people got with Cataclysm at all so to make the statement that we are going to be so lucky to only be charged $10 dollars for the same amount of content is hyperbolic in itself but of course that's ok because its positive hyperbole.

[mothear]

If they're the same price.... if it's 39.99 I would expect 39.99 of new content. If it's 9.99.... my expectations change....

 

Mine too but if I can't buy it with a proportion of my cartel coins I won't be doing so. As it has already been stated it doesn't include either chapter 4 or extended companion stories. IMO those two items are integral to anything that BW should call an 'expansion'.

[Tuscad]

If they're the same price.... if it's 39.99 I would expect 39.99 of new content. If it's 9.99.... my expectations change....

 

That is very reasonable. I think that it should be free though as I feel that we have not recieved $135 worth of content up to this point.

[Surakis]

For sure as would any reasonable person, and myself or Mothear are not trying to White Knight WoW but for Tarous to say:

 

So...lacking any evidence you are going to continue hyperbole and fear mongering.

And WoW did it with Cataclysm, Two very small leveling zones...and 5 levels....but they did it for $39.99US.

 

Which isn't accurate at all and is just as hyperbolic. From what they have told us which is granted very little it does not sound like it matches up well with what people got with Cataclysm at all so to make the statement that we are going to be so lucky to only be charged $10 dollars for the same amount of content is hyperbolic in itself but of course that's ok because its positive hyperbole.

 

It was a five level increase with the content to get you through those levels... and for 40 bucks!

[Surakis]

Mine too but if I can't buy it with a proportion of my cartel coins I won't be doing so. As it has already been stated it doesn't include either chapter 4 or extended companion stories. IMO those two items are integral to anything that BW should call an 'expansion'.

 

Whether they charge subscribers or not, a 5 level increase and content to go with it would be an expansion in almost any game. Acting like it wouldn't be in SWTOR is obtuse.

[Surakis]

That is very reasonable. I think that it should be free though as I feel that we have not recieved $135 worth of content up to this point.

 

Hey, I hope it is free to sub'bers too!

 

But if it is not I'll make a decision based on the facts. I won't be demanding a WoW sized update before calling it an "expansion" if at the same time not willing to pay the WoW sized price.

[Shadezilla]

It was a five level increase with the content to get you through those levels... and for 40 bucks!

 

And at the time seemed like a good purchase to me, because you knew you were going to get a few tiers of raiding added over the course of the expansion which didn't work out so well since I stopped playing in the first teir. I'm not trying to make this why WoW is better than SWTOR since SWTOR is the game I'm actually playing. Look if they add a great deal of stuff for the price beyond my subscription they will retain my sub and gain that extra money but if every bit of new content is going to come at a cost on top of a subscription then I'll be less than thrilled. Its all about value, everyone is going to have to make their own choice because value is subjective. Some people will be thrilled to pay for content updates on top of their subscription and that's fine, I have no genuine ill will towards them however I think that in order for me to decide that this game is worth supporting it can't go that way and all I can do is hope beyond hope that EA/BW sees that I'm probably not alone.

[Seregul]

I know the fans will come in and say... well its an expansion, of course we should pay extra for it. Sorry but 1 planet and a 5 level increase is not an expansion. Its a way to justify milking more money. This is the type of content that we should have gotten all along.

 

Good post. If they are reconsidering the purchase price of Makeb it is possible that the amount of content that will be coming with the Makeb update is much more than they had originally planned.

[Surakis]

And at the time seemed like a good purchase to me, because you knew you were going to get a few tiers of raiding added over the course of the expansion which didn't work out so well since I stopped playing in the first teir. I'm not trying to make this why WoW is better than SWTOR since SWTOR is the game I'm actually playing. Look if they add a great deal of stuff for the price beyond my subscription they will retain my sub and gain that extra money but if every bit of new content is going to come at a cost on top of a subscription then I'll be less than thrilled. Its all about value, everyone is going to have to make their own choice because value is subjective. Some people will be thrilled to pay for content updates on top of their subscription and that's fine, I have no genuine ill will towards them however I think that in order for me to decide that this game is worth supporting it can't go that way and all I can do is hope beyond hope that EA/BW sees that I'm probably not alone.

 

I just can't figure out folks, like you, who will pay for content for other games but act like paying for content in SWTOR is something akin to a crime.

 

First it has to be as much "content" as WoW to be called an expansion. Then when price is pointed out is switches to something else. People who want to complain will complain. They hand deliver the "expansion" in a gold paper to your home and still some would complain that their subscription entitled them to a bow wrapped around the box.

[mothear]

Whether they charge subscribers or not, a 5 level increase and content to go with it would be an expansion in almost any game. Acting like it wouldn't be in SWTOR is obtuse.

 

So I'm being obtuce yet you aren't by accepting, in a story driven MMO, neither class or companion stories are included in an expansion.

 

If you want my opinion, which I'm sure you really don't care, I agree but it takes more that a level increase to make an expansion, for TOR it needs chapter 4 at a minimum as well.

 

edit - by the way did Hickman not row back from the 5 level increase as well in the interview, I seem to remember he said it then got corrected bu the PR person there. Maybe wrong but I have no interest in watching it again.

Edited August 20, 2012 by mothear

[Shadezilla]

I just can't figure out folks, like you, who will pay for content for other games but act like paying for content in SWTOR is something akin to a crime.

 

First it has to be as much "content" as WoW to be called an expansion. Then when price is pointed out is switches to something else. People who want to complain will complain. They hand deliver the "expansion" in a gold paper to your home and still some would complain that their subscription entitled them to a bow wrapped around the box.

 

No, I think you misunderstand me, maybe not but I will try again. My concerns are simply that when they announced the whole transition to F2P they said subscribers would continue to receive new content for the price of their subscription like we do now which I was totally cool with because I planned to continue to subscribe to the game and not go the F2P route. I have no problem paying for an expansion for this game or any other my only concern is that they might make me pay for something that my subscription should cover. Again we don't know what Makeb will be and I'm frankly in wait and see mode I'm not here to burn down the forums in negativity and if I did plan do depart your not going to find some silly post here about I'll simply and quietly go. All I'm concerned about is getting value for paying my subscription that's all. Again value is subjective but if we are going to pay for what ever Makeb is on top of our subscriptions there had better be some content coming down the pipe that is going to go to subscribers for subscribing.

[Taorus]

No, I think you misunderstand me, maybe not but I will try again. My concerns are simply that when they announced the whole transition to F2P they said subscribers would continue to receive new content for the price of their subscription like we do now which I was totally cool with because I planned to continue to subscribe to the game and not go the F2P route. I have no problem paying for an expansion for this game or any other my only concern is that they might make me pay for something that my subscription should cover. Again we don't know what Makeb will be and I'm frankly in wait and see mode I'm not here to burn down the forums in negativity and if I did plan do depart your not going to find some silly post here about I'll simply and quietly go. All I'm concerned about is getting value for paying my subscription that's all. Again value is subjective but if we are going to pay for what ever Makeb is on top of our subscriptions there had better be some content coming down the pipe that is going to go to subscribers for subscribing.

 

But they have stated....even In the interview that this thread is based upon...that a New Op,New Warzone and a New Fp are coming....Makeb is after or before...depends when what gets done when and Separate from that. You should really watch the Interview.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Taorus

[Soluss]

So...lacking any evidence you are going to continue hyperbole and fear mongering.

And WoW did it with Cataclysm, Two very small leveling zones...and 5 levels....but they did it for $39.99US.

 

It doesnt matter how long it took you personally to level to 50. If you make a curve harder then it would take you even longer. It throws balance off of the game. Trust me... they are not going to change the curve in just 5 levels, they would have to change the curve in the entire game. It would be like changing a class room grade curve to be 20 in the class have x grading curve and the top 5 of the class are on a y grading curve. It just doesnt work.

 

I dont follow WoW much, because I didnt like the game. However, I think Cataclysm also reworked the entire game no?

With the release of Cataclysm, the maximum player level has been raised from 80 to 85. The game's two main continents, Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms have been redesigned with a changed appearance and some new areas. The quest system has been refreshed with almost 3500 new quests along with new and streamlined low and mid-level quests to complement the redesigned areas of Azeroth. Ten new dungeons and five new raids have been added as well as a new secondary skill, Archaeology. The glyph system has been overhauled to now have three types of glyph: prime, major, minor. Furthermore, glyphs are now permanently learned and require a reagent to remove from a slot. Two new playable races have been added, the Worgen and Goblins. In addition, existing classes have been expanded to be available to more races. The major cities of Orgrimmar, Stormwind and Dalaran have all experienced major changes. Lastly, the existing talent system has been overhauled. Players are awarded their first talent point at level 10, the next at 11, and then once per two levels until level 80. Levels 81 through 85 receives a talent point at every level bringing the total to 41 talent points. Talent points allow the player to choose new/improved abilities in combat.

 

Thats quite a bit more then just 2 leveling areas and 5 levels. I dont even follow the game but nice try on the downplay.

[Soluss]

Rift put out an amazing amount of content. If effort = subs they'd have more than WoW at this moment.

 

If ToR put out that effort then I would still be here and happy. I think many others would too. Some people would say that.... well rift only has 300k subs. They dont take into account that star wars launched 6 months later. They dont take into account that people are burned out on fantasy. They dont take into account it didnt have a huge IP following (its a new IP entirely) and they dont take into account that the company was pretty new (unheard of).

[Shadezilla]

But they have stated....even In the interview that this thread is based upon...that a New Op,New Warzone and a New Fp are coming....Makeb is after or before...depends when what gets done when and Separate from that. You should really watch the Interview.

 

I have watched it, it just seems like what they say changes with the wind, there is so little consistency in what little they tell us that it makes a guy nervous.

[TUXs]

Which highlights an interesting point about the MMO community IMO.

 

They say if you give them content, they will stay and play. Yet, they don't.

 

Rift suffered ~65% attrition in it's first 6-8 months, all the while content continued to stream. it gets a lot of credit as an MMO that knows how to push good content, yet even today, it's at about 30% of it's launch population. It's fairly stable, but all those alleged loyal content junkies, they never came back to the game.

 

Is that Trion's fault?? or is that on the community??

 

It's Trion's fault obviously. People will pay for a good game, but people are under no obligation to stay or return simply because Devs decide to listen AFTER the fact. This isn't 2004 when we had 1 or 2 viable MMOs...this is a very competitive market and developers need to step it up.

 

You get ONE chance to make it as an MMO these days. First impressions are all that counts. Welcome to the digital age.

[Taorus]

I have watched it, it just seems like what they say changes with the wind, there is so little consistency in what little they tell us that it makes a guy nervous.

 

completely understandable. Better to wait and see what occurs...then getting in a tizzy over statements not yet complete.

[Shadezilla]

completely understandable. Better to wait and see what occurs...then getting in a tizzy over statements not yet complete.

 

Exactly. I don't think a lot of people are in a tizzy, they making known where their breaking point with the game is. Its not your typical GW2 is going to cure cancer and crush this game rhetoric.

[Surakis]

So I'm being obtuce yet you aren't by accepting, in a story driven MMO, neither class or companion stories are included in an expansion.

 

Holy goal post moving batman!

 

PS: Class/companion specific stories do not dictate if it is or is not an expansion.

 

If you want my opinion, which I'm sure you really don't care, I agree but it takes more that a level increase to make an expansion, for TOR it needs chapter 4 at a minimum as well.

 

And it should have candy, and roses.....

 

edit - by the way did Hickman not row back from the 5 level increase as well in the interview, I seem to remember he said it then got corrected bu the PR person there. Maybe wrong but I have no interest in watching it again.

 

Why parse words so hard trying to find something to be mad about?

[Surakis]

Thats quite a bit more then just 2 leveling areas and 5 levels. I dont even follow the game but nice try on the downplay.

 

39.99 price tag... 39.99 price tag... 39.99 price tag.

 

Context. It means everything.

[Styxx]

Which highlights an interesting point about the MMO community IMO.

 

They say if you give them content, they will stay and play. Yet, they don't.

 

Rift suffered ~65% attrition in it's first 6-8 months, all the while content continued to stream. it gets a lot of credit as an MMO that knows how to push good content, yet even today, it's at about 30% of it's launch population. It's fairly stable, but all those alleged loyal content junkies, they never came back to the game.

 

Is that Trion's fault?? or is that on the community??

 

It is Trion`s fault, or, by generalizing, the Developer`s fault.

 

I am judging from my perspective alone: I bought this game and subbed, because it is one of the few that offer some degree of realism, as opposed to the medieval crap or the Goth theme. I also happen to like SW, but I won`t be called a fan. I watched the movies, sure, but I won`t remember every second nor did I see them 40000 times.

 

First and foremost I subbed to an MMO. I didn`t expect Bioware to reinvent the wheel, but I DID expect to be offered something more than re-rolling alts.

 

The onus is on Bioware alone to keep me as player, by offering me MMO content - multiplayer, not single player. I expect them to give me social content, I expect them to give me a reason to stay past leveling a lvl 50. I expect them to give me attractive game mechanics, I expect them to give me a REASON to play.

 

Ultimately, a game is entertainment... if I am not entertained, then I won`t stay. But it is not my fault that they only have ONE slot machine and ONE movie... and that being a '70s B-rated horror movie. Because that`s robbery, not entertainment. Or stupidity.

[mothear]

Holy goal post moving batman!

 

PS: Class/companion specific stories do not dictate if it is or is not an expansion.

 

 

 

And it should have candy, and roses.....

 

 

 

Why parse words so hard trying to find something to be mad about?

 

I'm only narked because you called me obtuce for not accepting your opinion. I like the game, enjoy playing it, and will continue to do so. All I'm saying is I won't pay for an expansion that doesn't expand the class story, i.e. giving my opinion whilst all you seem to want to do is disrespect my opinion.