Why is RP-PvE more popular than RP-PvP?

[DuchessOfDork]

I've found that my best experience with an RP community has been on an RP-PVP server. It feels like the best of both worlds, there.

[JaxinRiens]

Many PvE players definitely do, although I think a very large proportion of RPers do not. Many RPers, especially the ones that come to PvE-RP servers are more interested in the RP, the stories and the inter-character communication that is the bread-and-butter of their RP than the 'elite boss' kills.

 

Or maybe that's my own distorted view, since I'm one of them

 

In that instance i was speaking about the subset in general of "PVE'r" like the poster i quoted was talking about PVP'rs as a whole.

 

In the end it all boils down to ... everyone should play the game the way they want to. there is not fighting as there are server types for everything. The only one missing is a hardcore server type with full item loot and permadeath.

[Slamz]

I think PvP popularity is greatly underestimated.

 

Consider that console online play is almost 100% PvP. There are some co-op console games but the overwhelming majority of it is driven by PvP.

 

So I think the real situation is this:

 

Of people who play games, most prefer PvE.

Of people who play games online, most prefer PvP.

 

That is, 10 million people buy Starcraft. 9 million of them play it entirely offline and that's the whole game for them. Zero PvP. They don't even log in to battle.net. 1 million go online and out of those, 900 thousand will play head-to-head versus 100 thousand that play co-op versus the computer. So why someone makes an online-only game and offers almost no PvP is a mystery.

 

 

 

If SWTOR was a massive online wargame, would it be more or less popular? I think it's pretty debatable. There is a vast untapped market of people who like competitive games who simply do not play MMORPGs because nobody makes competitive MMORPGs. Lots of competitive gamers have completely ditched the PC gaming platform because it's too hard to fine competitive games for it anymore. It's all consoles. And I think it's a big factor in why PC gaming as a whole is dying out -- the PvE market alone can't drive it.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Slamz

[Plastic]

Can someone help me understand this. In my opinion Roleplaying is all about immersing yourself in the game world, feeling like you're part of it and that there's nothing unnatural stopping you from being who you want to be. So naturally I feel a PvP server, where the freedom of attacking whoever you want (on the opposite side) is present, is the best suited type of server for RP.

 

Wouldn't the PvE mechanics break immersion? You're standing next to a player of your opposing faction with your lightsaber/blaster ready but simply can't touch the person because of some other-wordly intervention called "pvp-flag". To me that breaks the spell of being in a world of war, conflict and constant danger.

 

On the other hand, I can understand the annoyance of people who are in the server NOT to RP and might try to destroy the experience for RP'ers which is easier to do in a PvP server. But really, to me that's an added danger of the world that can be easily "embedded" in the roleplay.

 

So what is your stance on this? Why did you choose RP-PvE or RP-PvP?

 

 

// Alkara Nelien

 

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS AN OPINION. VIEWERS DISCRETION ADVISED!

 

A lot of RPers are just scared of PvP - this is just my opinion. Even when I played Age of Conan - the people who played on the RPPVP servers would openly claim they don't want to PvP and travel in packs of people, either it be friends/guilds/paid just to avoid it. But, that itself encouraged RP - hired guards, mercenaries, backstabbings - a lot of fun.

 

Honestly, I just think a lot of RPers just use 'gankers' as an excuse of not wanting to learn how to PvP and hide behind it religiously. I'm in the same boat as you - I think PvP should be included in roleplay and it actually encourages MORE RP. How can a Sith Lord be a brutal tyrant without displaying his power and installing fear via killing. Do you think Darth Bane would of just let jedi walk right past him without a glance? Things like that - PvE doesn't cut it. People who've PvP'd on any game had at least a moment of: "Ah, crap, not this guy..." when a dude came into a battle.

 

As said, look at what people did in Age of Conan - they hired mercenaries, got body guards. Gankers are something that are easily handled with a good community but no one wants to take up arms - most just wait for hand-outs.

 

Look at what 80% (guesstimate) of RP has become - tavern RP. This has became a norm for most RPers and, knowing people - we don't like breaking norms. And throwing in PvP breaks norms because it would restrict it to just home worlds/towns. I'll throw in World of Warcraft, for example - I really love Nagrand, its a beautiful zone but if I was a roleplayer who followed the norm I would be in Stormwind because Nagrand was open for PvP if PvP was enforced on all RP servers.

 

Thats just my thoughts on it.

 

TL;DR: A lot of RPers are intimidated by PvP and roll on PvE for that reason.

Edited December 19, 2011 by Plastic

[raelimar]

Hour and a half queue for Jung Ma says hi. People like RP-PvP too.

[Plastic]

Hour and a half queue for Jung Ma says hi. People like RP-PvP too.

 

 

Why I rolled on Ven Swallow or .. whatever; I never spell my server right

[thewatcheruatu]

That's exactly why I prefer an RP-PVP server. I feel like.. if I'm gonna play a character that thinks she's powerful, and then I get my *** kicked in PVP, I have no business roleplaying a powerful lord of the Sith. I feel like PVP makes us earn our reputations. I want to actually have a character people don't want to run into because I weel KEEL zem.

 

I've heard this before, but it always seemed a pretty odd perspective to me. Roleplaying is about...well...playing a role. The only requirement to earn that role is that you act it well. Alec Guiness didn't suck as Obi-Wan Kenobi because Alec Guiness wasn't actually any good at swordplay.

[OddjobXL]

Hour and a half queue for Jung Ma says hi. People like RP-PvP too.

 

Yeah, that is kinda interesting but it does need some perspective. There are only three RP-PvP servers compared to seven RP-PvE servers.

 

Also, for a longer term perspective, look up Cimmeria, official RP-PvP, and Wiccana, unofficial RP-PvE, in AoC. You'll see how that population shifts over time. It is one way and not towards RP-PvP. And the crashing and burning of Bonny, Unofficial RP server, in Pirates of The Burning Sea was a very dramatic version of the same phenomenon.

 

I don't think RP-PvP has very long legs. People go with high hopes and the best intentions but things usually go south because nonroleplaying PvPers just make life miserable for 'em. Most will migrate to RP-PvE servers within a year or two.

[fodigg]

Yeah, that is kinda interesting but it does need some perspective. There are only three RP-PvP servers compared to seven RP-PvE servers.

 

Also, for a longer term perspective, look up Cimmeria, official RP-PvP, and Wiccana, unofficial RP-PvE, in AoC. You'll see how that population shifts over time. It is one way and not towards RP-PvP. And the crashing and burning of Bonny, Unofficial RP server, in Pirates of The Burning Sea was a very dramatic version of the same phenomenon.

 

I don't think RP-PvP has very long legs. People go with high hopes and the best intentions but things usually go south because nonroleplaying PvPers just make life miserable for 'em. Most will migrate to RP-PvE servers within a year or two.

 

Generally in most MMOs the population shifts away from PvP servers. Less people enjoy PvP, and many who don't know this up front abandon PvP servers later on.

[DuchessOfDork]

I've heard this before, but it always seemed a pretty odd perspective to me. Roleplaying is about...well...playing a role. The only requirement to earn that role is that you act it well. Alec Guiness didn't suck as Obi-Wan Kenobi because Alec Guiness wasn't actually any good at swordplay.

 

Yeah, but it still seems strange to me. I feel like I should earn the right to be feared, not just pretend it. I love playing pretend, but we have an actual game to back up our claims. I'd like to quest and raid and kill Jedi for more than just shiny things.

[Haekel]

I played on an RP-PVP server once, in another game.

 

At first I thought it was a good idea. The game had a strong reason for PvP, and the rough world made it natural to try a RP-PvP server.

 

But not all of the players there were RPers.

 

I'd say that about half the population was there for other reasons than RP. One of them: ganking RPers. In an open world PvP setting, there WILL be ganking. Even if you're lucky and the ratio is way down, there will always be some jerk that thinks it's incredibly funny to kill you two dozen times on your way to the quest, using his stealthed, 10-levels-above-the-area char.

 

Whole groups of PvPers sabotaged our RP meetings, there was a war happening between RPers and non-RPers. While that may sound interesting, trust me, it was not. It ruined the game for me.

 

And the worst thing is, you can do NOTHING about it. You can't even complain; after all, you chose an (RP-)PvP server.

 

 

Conclusion: Never again will I play on an RP-PvP server. If I absolutely, positively have to fight other players, I can always use the duel function, or just emote the combat - which can be pretty rewarding in itself.

 

So long. *waves*

Edited December 20, 2011 by Haekel

[JaxinRiens]

Yeah, that is kinda interesting but it does need some perspective. There are only three RP-PvP servers compared to seven RP-PvE servers.

 

Also, for a longer term perspective, look up Cimmeria, official RP-PvP, and Wiccana, unofficial RP-PvE, in AoC. You'll see how that population shifts over time. It is one way and not towards RP-PvP. And the crashing and burning of Bonny, Unofficial RP server, in Pirates of The Burning Sea was a very dramatic version of the same phenomenon.

 

I don't think RP-PvP has very long legs. People go with high hopes and the best intentions but things usually go south because nonroleplaying PvPers just make life miserable for 'em. Most will migrate to RP-PvE servers within a year or two.

 

Dude Cimmeria died rp wise because they kept merging pvp servers into it and not RP servers, the RP players free transferred off because the rp community died from all the server merges. For a long time Cimmeria had one of the best RP communities in Conan Right down to RP sieges.

[StealthNerf]

Wiccana was mostly tavern ERP. Right now on Wiccana there are no real events. Just tavern stuff. Edited December 20, 2011 by StealthNerf

[DownWithSOE]

If you REALLY want to roleplay, there should be "RP-FFA".

 

That is, I should be able to kill people on the same team, too. Everquest had one server like this and it stayed as a popular option even after they introduced team-PvP servers as an alternative. Just today I wanted to kill someone because he took my quest item after I'd killed all the stuff it spawned. I had to kill it all again. What a jerk. If it was an "RP-FFA" server, I would have put my flamethrower up his nose.

 

 

But yes, anyway, I agree. "RP-PvE" is not really roleplaying.

 

I couldn't agree more.

[nite_shade]

RP-PvP I feel caters for the more hardcore RPer, with the element of realism the PvP aspect gives them.. That's why I'm on the RP-PvP server (when i can get on..... Queues and all.... 2 Days now since I got on ). RP-PvP is for those who want to be relaxed, who fear being Ganked whilst solo'ing etc... or running their story lines... or simply want to play in a more relaxed manor...

 

However, a true RP-PvP server shouldn't be a gank server, if people are TRUE RPers..... there are and should be a global understanding or rule set...

 

I used to play on an RP-PvE server on WoW.. but after a while it got to boring without the added PvP element...

[StealthNerf]

Well have decided to just roll identical characters on both a PvE and PvP server. When both are 50 I'll decide which one I like best.

[Raphael_diSanto]

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING CONTAINS AN OPINION. VIEWERS DISCRETION ADVISED!

 

A lot of RPers are just scared of PvP - this is just my opinion. Even when I played Age of Conan - the people who played on the RPPVP servers would openly claim they don't want to PvP and travel in packs of people, either it be friends/guilds/paid just to avoid it. But, that itself encouraged RP - hired guards, mercenaries, backstabbings - a lot of fun.

 

Honestly, I just think a lot of RPers just use 'gankers' as an excuse of not wanting to learn how to PvP and hide behind it religiously. I'm in the same boat as you - I think PvP should be included in roleplay and it actually encourages MORE RP. How can a Sith Lord be a brutal tyrant without displaying his power and installing fear via killing. Do you think Darth Bane would of just let jedi walk right past him without a glance? Things like that - PvE doesn't cut it. People who've PvP'd on any game had at least a moment of: "Ah, crap, not this guy..." when a dude came into a battle.

 

As said, look at what people did in Age of Conan - they hired mercenaries, got body guards. Gankers are something that are easily handled with a good community but no one wants to take up arms - most just wait for hand-outs.

 

Look at what 80% (guesstimate) of RP has become - tavern RP. This has became a norm for most RPers and, knowing people - we don't like breaking norms. And throwing in PvP breaks norms because it would restrict it to just home worlds/towns. I'll throw in World of Warcraft, for example - I really love Nagrand, its a beautiful zone but if I was a roleplayer who followed the norm I would be in Stormwind because Nagrand was open for PvP if PvP was enforced on all RP servers.

 

Thats just my thoughts on it.

 

TL;DR: A lot of RPers are intimidated by PvP and roll on PvE for that reason.

It's not always being "intimidated" by it.

 

Some of us simply don't like it having another human being as an opponent. I used to play a lot of Quake, Unreal Tournament, that sort of thing and when I was younger, I enjoyed that. I wasn't hugely successful, but I held my own.

 

I simply don't enjoy that sort of thing anymore. I play video games these days to play with people, not against them.

[Raphael_diSanto]

Yeah, but it still seems strange to me. I feel like I should earn the right to be feared, not just pretend it. I love playing pretend, but we have an actual game to back up our claims. I'd like to quest and raid and kill Jedi for more than just shiny things.

 

An interesting point here - I've noticed that you keep saying you, not your character.

[OddjobXL]

Wiccana was mostly tavern ERP. Right now on Wiccana there are no real events. Just tavern stuff.

 

I haven't been there in a long time but be that as it may the server population numbers show a shift and it was also reflected in forum banter. Folks from Cimmeria complaining about the experience and happy to have found Wiccana. Cimmeria RPers trying to recruit players from Wiccana back. But eventually it kinda collapsed on itself. First the hardcore PvP servers died, their players went to PvP-RP servers and made a mess of things, so the remaining roleplayers (many had already left) moved in to Wiccana.

 

I think, if I recall correctly, Wicanna was the largest population PvE server even before the merges. Given the RP community picked it for having an obscure name and being at the bottom of the alphabet I have to think the reason Wiccana pulled that off has entirely to do with the fact it collected so many RP refugees from the PvP-RP servers.

 

But, yeah, I do have to agree with the ERP assessment (though there was other kinds of RP and RP beyond the taverns when I was there). I kinda came for Hyboria and not Gor. So I eventually moseyed along...old fart roleplayer that I am.

Edited December 20, 2011 by OddjobXL

[GalacticKegger]

This game spawned from KOTOR, Sith Lords & Mass Effect - and all three have uber amounts of role play built into them. In fact, eliminate the RP from these games (SWTOR included) and they lose probably 2/3 of their content. PvP was never a part of those games so TOR's core old school player base is probably having so much fun with the storylines and quest interactions that they just haven't tried it yet.

 

Role playing "Dinner at 8" while they're getting the snot beat out of them is a new twist for BW's core customers. That's easy enough to do in PvE because the bad guys' moves are choreographed, thus making their interruptions largely avoidable. There's nothing choreographed about PvP so interruptions would be a constant.

 

Now if engaging PvPers had a common voice-to-text chat channel so they could trash talk during a fight...

Edited December 20, 2011 by GalacticKegger

[Garrem]

I dislike all PvP. It's disruptive... And frankly, I suck at it. I'm the type of player that just goes "Eep!" when attacked by another player...

 

I once tried to RP-PvP servers. I kept getting ganked while walking around in my RP outfit (low leveled) outside the cities. Wasn't that fun. On RP-PvE servers, I get to focus on the more... roleplaying aspect of, well, RP - instead of the I gotta be ready for anything while taking a stroll.

[kitsunegirl]

Pve-rp is more popular simply because, despite the best of intentions, pvp-rp servers ALWAYS devolve into pvp servers. They might stay primarily RP oriented for a time, but they eventually succumb to the corruption of the Darkside.

[JadeBranch]

I don't know if the Republic and Empire would attack each other at random on a constant basis. Don't they have a tense peace treaty? At least at the start of the game? Sure there is lots of conflict and fighting between the two, make no mistake of that, but like someone else said, I kind of figured it would be more....organized than total chaotic man slaughter.

 

 

The next part of it is that people have itchy trigger fingers. Just because you can kill someone doesn't mean you should. If you're *immersively* roleplaying how realistic is it to go out of your way to kill someone without the slightest provocation? A good deal of people on RP servers aren't even RPers so you have people who are killing you just because they can as well as griefers. If you are having a tender moment out in the woods alone then you're more likely to disregard it than actually accept it as RP. If there's an option to attack, people often choose to no matter what, even RPers I've found do the same.

 

 

So in short, mostly the griefing potential and trigger happy individuals discourages rp-pvp servers. (And you can still do organized rp-pvp on a normal one as well.)

[Kholvan]

For me it's simply a mechanical question. I want to be able to RP in the field and not just the Fleet station. However, I can't exactly type out a custom emote if someone's going to run up and stick a lightsaber in my back 45 characters into the typing. And then what, I'm supposed to RP like it never happened afterward?

 

I'd be all for Free for All PvP if the appropriate consequences were attached to attempted murder. It's not just nearby NPC guards that attack - it's detectives that hunt you down, send your picture to the other garrisons on the world or set up check points at the spaceport to keep you from leaving the planet.

 

Put a system like that in place that reflects a civilized society and makes ganking more painful for the ganker than the gankee and it's a totally different story. For those that would suggest these aren't civilized settings ... In Kaas city, there's a quest where you use the authorities to take out a whole group of Sith lords by arranging for them to attack an acolyte while the authorities are watching.

 

Warfronts are a different story, but even there I'd expect your own side to make a big deal of it. Every friggin' petty officer in the fleet seems willing to ask me to stop some Republic git from killing their men, after all.

[DuchessOfDork]

An interesting point here - I've noticed that you keep saying you, not your character.

 

Well yeah. I feel like I should earn the right to play the character that I want to play. I don't want to be able to just up and say I'm an awesome and powerful dark lord of the Sith because I'm really good at pretending to be one. That feels phony, especially when we can actually DO evil things in this game.

 

When I played WoW, we had a guild on an RP-PVP server that lasted YEARS. My husband would go out and hunt down gankers. We'd keep a list of "bad guys", and he'd have fun sneaking into their cities and killing them. That makes the game feel more real, to me. Like, I'm actually in danger of getting my *** kicked most of the time, and if I see a Jedi, I weel keel them or get my *** kicked trying!