Jedi Sages aren't Jedi

[clearsighted]

Just to clarify. The main reason Yoda was amazing with the lightsaber was because of the force.

 

"Much of his lightsaber combat style relied on jumps and acrobatics, many of which were aided by the Force and augmented by his mastery of Force Valour." - starwars.wikia.com

 

So even though he used his lightsaber, the majority of his fighting was done with the force. As a side note, Yoda was trained as a Jedi Consular.

Edit: This is also a game. If you don't like the class, don't play it. If you don't like the game because it isn't hand catered to you, don't play it. This isn't WoW, quit whining on the forums like it is.

 

Seems like a lot of people are doing that, lately.

 

And I would contest that if the SWTOR community seems like WoW's to you, it is because at some stage in development, the SWTOR devs did everything they could to WoWify their game. Instead of hewing to something more original.

 

You get the good with the bad. If you don't like it, don't read the forums, where you are exposed to other people's opinions.

[VigDiath]

As the creators of Kotor, BioWare could have given Sages the ability to do more than just block damage with their lightsabers. Consulars in that game relied on the Force more than anything but could still open a can of whoop a** with their lightsabers. I would up my Wisdom & Charisma in the game and everything else I used would be Strength stat. Especially with the glitch in Kotor2, my Wisdom & Charisma would be close to 18 and my Strength at least 16 and my gear would be all Strength gear. Here we don't have that option but they should give us the option to be more than just casters in this game.

[CephalicRex]

Man, I had a Sith Lord (Force using class) in KOTOR II that had a strength of 26 and a Wisdom in the mid 40's after utilizing the infinite exp. glitch. The result was a beast of sheer terror. I whooped Jedi Masters and Sith alike with my lightsaber. However, the real fun came in when I could use the Mind Trick to make boss characters like Darth Sion and Nihilus friendly for a little while. It was useless combat wise, but said a lot for a character to have that much willpower. I did get to use the mind trick to turn Kreia's 3 lightsabers against her though. That was fun.

 

Enough about KOTOR, though. If you had the raw force power of a Jedi Sage or a Sith Sorcerer, would you, for all practical and combat purposes, use a a close range melee weapon such as a lightsaber and risk injury? Or would you opt to use your sheer command of the force instead and assault your enemy at range?

 

I know I'd be the one force pushing or chucking debris or shooting lightning if I could. Anything to keep that dangerous lightsaber that could probably maim me, away. It is obviously the more tactical approach in a given situation. However, if the all force powers failed and someone got in my face, I'd still like to fall back on some old fashion lightsaber skills though. But I could see why, from a logical point of view, that Bioware designed the Sage/Sorcerers the way they did. Not just for the sake of game mechanics, but it just makes sense they would prefer to fight at range.

 

Also, since when did not using your lightsaber not make you a Jedi? I always figured it was that whole,"Defender of peace and maintainer of balance throughout the galaxy" that made a force user a Jedi.

[Ejahl]

Jedi Sages aren't Jedi.

 

If you say so..

[TheAlopex]

I'm going to agree with the OP.

 

I have a lovely orange lightsaber that I fire up every time. But I don't know why I bother. I guess deflecting blaster fire? Vader was able to stop blaster fire just with his hands, though, so it can't be that essential.

 

I don't want to be a melee class, but I do want my saber to do... SOMETHING...

[VigDiath]

I'm going to agree with the OP.

 

I have a lovely orange lightsaber that I fire up every time. But I don't know why I bother. I guess deflecting blaster fire? Vader was able to stop blaster fire just with his hands, though, so it can't be that essential.

 

I don't want to be a melee class, but I do want my saber to do... SOMETHING...

 

It's got a variety of uses. Flashlight in the dark. Cigarette lighter. Slices butter & toast phenomenally! Just don't use it to attack with!

[ingenuityfails]

Couldn't you just assume that in this era, us Sages are so ****** that don't need our lightsabres? Yeah, they're cool and all, but imagine say, Episode 1. Qui-gon and Obi-wan strolling through Naboo, having to whip out their sabers to whoop every droid that come along.

 

Now imagine instead, your Sage strolling through the same situation. Sure, he deflects a few blaster bolts with his sabre, but he doesn't need it to attack them, in fact most of the bolts he's just dodging. He just crushes them into the ground, pushes them into walls, generally messing up their world by looking/pointing at them. Doesn't that convey an ever greater aura of force mastery? xD

 

 

I will grant however, that (as with Yoda) when you understand the force that much, you can fortify you own strength and speed, add in the precognition and reflexes that come with being in touch with your surroundings through the force, and that's why Consulars are as untouchable in lightsabre combat as Guardians. It would be freaking awesome to take out one of the current skill tree's for one that focuses on increasing your evasion and damage reduction while giving you force-based melee combat attacks to reflect the above. But no matter how much anyone complains, do you ever see it happening?

 

As cool as it'd be, if you're that unhappy with it, best bet would be to reroll as Sentinel.

 

 

EDIT:

Anyone who doesn't get what I mean by "Consulars are just as untouchable in lightsabre combat as Guardians": Think back to Kotor 2. Towards the end of the story, you get Force Enlightenment. A Jedi Weaponmaster using Enlightenment, meh. No big difference. A Jedi Master using Enlightenment, turns into an invincible killing machine. Killing Darth Traya with a Master was infinitely easier than with a Weaponmaster because of this.

Edited September 11, 2012 by ingenuityfails

[clearsighted]

Couldn't you just assume that in this era, us Sages are so ****** that don't need our lightsabres? Yeah, they're cool and all, but imagine say, Episode 1. Qui-gon and Obi-wan strolling through Naboo, having to whip out their sabers to whoop every droid that come along.

 

Now imagine instead, your Sage strolling through the same situation. Sure, he deflects a few blaster bolts with his sabre, but he doesn't need it to attack them, in fact most of the bolts he's just dodging. He just crushes them into the ground, pushes them into walls, generally messing up their world by looking/pointing at them. Doesn't that convey an ever greater aura of force mastery? xD

 

 

I will grant however, that (as with Yoda) when you understand the force that much, you can fortify you own strength and speed, add in the precognition and reflexes that come with being in touch with your surroundings through the force, and that's why Consulars are as untouchable in lightsabre combat as Guardians. It would be freaking awesome to take out one of the current skill tree's for one that focuses on increasing your evasion and damage reduction while giving you force-based melee combat attacks to reflect the above. But no matter how much anyone complains, do you ever see it happening?

 

As cool as it'd be, if you're that unhappy with it, best bet would be to reroll as Sentinel.

.

 

This line of reasoning would not seem to work by contrast with KOTOR I or II set in the same time period, where the Jedi Consular had a much different thematic, and more pleasing Star Warsy aesthetic feel...while still being part of a level-based RPG with multiple paths.

 

What Bioware does with the Sage in its current incarnation, is detract from the wonder and mystery of the Force, by making the use of it basically a banal, weaker version of blaster fire.

 

And it's why I hope the guy who designed the 'Jedi Wizard' class, who had just got off his WoW spellcaster, and that was the only ideas he had, has long since been fired. Hell, WoW did spellcasters better than Bioware anyways. At least WoW spellcasters don't start as close range fighters, then abruptly shift gears to long-range wizards at lvl 10.

Edited September 11, 2012 by clearsighted

[CephalicRex]

I'm going to agree with the OP.

 

I have a lovely orange lightsaber that I fire up every time. But I don't know why I bother. I guess deflecting blaster fire? Vader was able to stop blaster fire just with his hands, though, so it can't be that essential.

 

I don't want to be a melee class, but I do want my saber to do... SOMETHING...

 

It can do something. You can finish enemies below a 5th of the maximum health with it.

[clearsighted]

It can do something. You can finish enemies below a 5th of the maximum health with it.

 

More like fiftieth.

[Altheran]

I think the problem resides in the fact that when choosing Sage/sorcerer AC, Willpower doesn't affect melee anymore. I don't get why the stat is changed that way...

[GavinPatterson]

I like how the sage is force based and ranged - but i'd love to see saber throw - i have no idea why we don't....

[clearsighted]

I think the problem resides in the fact that when choosing Sage/sorcerer AC, Willpower doesn't affect melee anymore. I don't get why the stat is changed that way...

 

I don't get it either. It is needlessly confusing.

[Galland]

Exactly, look at Yoda. The moment he had to fight, he became a lightsaber monkey on crack-cocaine.

 

Dooku even made the point, at one time, that 'force mastery', like throwing bricks at people or shooting lightning, was used as a way to dispatch opponents that were beneath them. Dooku had to resolve his fight with Yoda with a saber, and Palpatine had to fight Mace with a saber.

 

The only time Palpatine fought a worthy opponent, purely with the Force, was at the very end when he was hucking council seats at Yoda, and that was to show his dark side power had gone OVER 9000.

 

This is the nerdiest thing possible to debate, but it's still true. Cinematically, jedi use lightsabers, and Bioware made them into wizards instead. A colossal fail on their part, and they knew it too, since every time they show the consular, he is using double-strike.

 

This, I totally agree.

[Rabenschwinge]

I don't know what they are. But they aren't Jedi.

 

Yoda, Palpatine, Count Dooku...All characters the archetype (or its counterpart, sorc) were designed with in mind...All whipped out sabers when sh/t got real.

 

They should just give us wizard hats.

 

The game is licensed by Lucas Arts so, it's a self-fullfilling truth... if they say there are Jedi who are like sages, there are, because they say it. I agree it doesn't feel much like what we see in the movies, but that's just the way it is - no point in worrying about.

 

I suppose the design is mostly the way it is, because the MMOG audience expects certain classes and behaviors.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Rabenschwinge

[DPCummerbund]

Still never seen any jedi not use their lightsaber. Game flaw.

 

Yoda, 1980-2002.

[GFreeGamer]

I'd just like to add that even in the Clone Wars era, there were Jedi who did not use their lightsaber.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fay

 

Fay was a Jedi who fought entirely with the Force and didn't even draw her saber, and Obi Wan did not even know if she had one. Also, she did use a pebble throw that slowed Ventress.

 

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071019025446/starwars/images/d/d7/Fay.jpg