Mortianna Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Aloha all, at first, i was amazed - warzones from 10th level equal to 49 with same base bless - found that really a great idea..But now, after 2 weeks of PVP, i am really dissapointed to be honest. With strongest attacks and boosts on it, i am leaving jedi characters - reason? snipers simply give tripple or double dmg than jedi melee and from distance (tried all jedi characters, does not depend on armor or abilities, seing other around me with different classes and armor types).. This game is unballanced by this, whitch is a shame, cause of really great graphic, story, design works, ideas, rp stories and lots of other things. But in pvp rule the shooting classes, especially snipers. Some smart lads may add, that "everything is op i cannot play" but i found not ballanced to give critical strikes over 2400 dmg per strongest ability versus over 4200 dmg per one distance critical basic attack from snipe..In stories, force wielders could defend themselves from blasters and energy shot - i see no ability in pvp to survive for force users and cause of it i write here - i see many players created a snipe character, so in one battleground i can meet 3 to 4 in one team - seems many people can see their advantage. To be honest, ill not buy another period of playing if this andvantage remains - loving starwars and force characters, i will not build shooters (can play shooting games for that)..
Skolops Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Aloha all, at first, i was amazed - warzones from 10th level equal to 49 with same base bless - found that really a great idea..But now, after 2 weeks of PVP, i am really dissapointed to be honest. With strongest attacks and boosts on it, i am leaving jedi characters - reason? snipers simply give tripple or double dmg than jedi melee and from distance (tried all jedi characters, does not depend on armor or abilities, seing other around me with different classes and armor types).. This game is unballanced by this, whitch is a shame, cause of really great graphic, story, design works, ideas, rp stories and lots of other things. But in pvp rule the shooting classes, especially snipers. Some smart lads may add, that "everything is op i cannot play" but i found not ballanced to give critical strikes over 2400 dmg per strongest ability versus over 4200 dmg per one distance critical basic attack from snipe..In stories, force wielders could defend themselves from blasters and energy shot - i see no ability in pvp to survive for force users and cause of it i write here - i see many players created a snipe character, so in one battleground i can meet 3 to 4 in one team - seems many people can see their advantage. To be honest, ill not buy another period of playing if this andvantage remains - loving starwars and force characters, i will not build shooters (can play shooting games for that).. Snipers are able to do a ton of damage if they are left alone or well protected, which makes sense as they are a pure DPS class. They are, however, very easy to kill if they are focused and/or their team does not support and defend them. Jedi melee classes can easily take out snipers if they are allowed to get up near them. You also need to consider that only one of the Jedi melee classes is pure DPS - the sentinel. Guardians and Shadows have DPS specs, but they are technically tanks, so it makes sense that their DPS specs would be slightly weaker. In practice, however, their DPS specs can produce just as much damage as snipers if, again, they are supported by their team.
irishtim Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 ^^ spot the Google translate errors On a more related note Snipers are fine, they are the very definition of the term glass cannon stop QQing about every class that beats you people and learn to play your class On a completely unrelated note but similar to these posts i have decided that Sages/Sorcs need a nerf because when i was playing on my Commando i was at 4% health after fighting off a Merc and a Sorc came along and 1 shotted me with death field, no class should be able to do that /end sarcasm (see i can use useless stories about my experience in PVP to make pointless nerf posts too)
iNeXxS Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Don't base your opinions of PvP on 10-49. Classes like Snipers get a lot of faceroll abilities early on compared to other classes but once you get to 50 they are pretty easy to kill. If you're a Knight (Guardian/Sentinel), then Snipers are your counter-class. You can't leap to them and all your attacks are melee, but they also have less mobility. This means Snipers/Gunslingers are for area lockdown and not for carrying the Huttball or switching between nodes in Novare/Alderaan.
ATroch Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 SWTOR, more then any game I have ever played, gives the most advantage to melee classes over ranged in pvp.
AlyxDinas Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 I think they're possible one of the few truly well designed classes in the game
Eyesmindassassin Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 SWTOR, more then any game I have ever played, gives the most advantage to melee classes over ranged in pvp. Really? Because I dominate on my Sniper like any of my melee classes. It isn't harder to play or anything either, just different. As a Sniper you have a LOT of tools to keep melee off you. Not to mention, ranged are and always will be easier and preferred in PvE encounters. I think it's a learn to play issure, sir.
ATroch Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Really? Because I dominate on my Sniper like any of my melee classes. It isn't harder to play or anything either, just different. As a Sniper you have a LOT of tools to keep melee off you. Not to mention, ranged are and always will be easier and preferred in PvE encounters. I think it's a learn to play issure, sir. You mis-understood me "sir". All I am saying is compared to other games I have played melee is much better equipped to deal with ranged, and preform exceptionally in all pvp encounters. Take for example Daoc or more recently Gw2, ranged classes excel in the constant terrain changes and castle defense. Closing the gap in swtor couldnt possibly be any easier to get in there and bash away the ranged classes.
kjkdollarbanny Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Aloha all, at first, i was amazed - warzones from 10th level equal to 49 with same base bless - found that really a great idea..But now, after 2 weeks of PVP, i am really dissapointed to be honest. With strongest attacks and boosts on it, i am leaving jedi characters - reason? snipers simply give tripple or double dmg than jedi melee and from distance (tried all jedi characters, does not depend on armor or abilities, seing other around me with different classes and armor types).. This game is unballanced by this, whitch is a shame, cause of really great graphic, story, design works, ideas, rp stories and lots of other things. But in pvp rule the shooting classes, especially snipers. Some smart lads may add, that "everything is op i cannot play" but i found not ballanced to give critical strikes over 2400 dmg per strongest ability versus over 4200 dmg per one distance critical basic attack from snipe..In stories, force wielders could defend themselves from blasters and energy shot - i see no ability in pvp to survive for force users and cause of it i write here - i see many players created a snipe character, so in one battleground i can meet 3 to 4 in one team - seems many people can see their advantage. To be honest, ill not buy another period of playing if this andvantage remains - loving starwars and force characters, i will not build shooters (can play shooting games for that).. yes snipers op! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=511935 thread started just sucks on any class. best burst? Line of sight noob!!!! 4200 from basic attack? wear something with expertise noob!!! come and play sniper first, then you can complain. But im sure that you will cry next day : "something else are op!"
Vancanto Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Snipers are able to do a ton of damage if they are left alone or well protected, which makes sense as they are a pure DPS class. They are, however, very easy to kill if they are focused and/or their team does not support and defend them. Jedi melee classes can easily take out snipers if they are allowed to get up near them. You also need to consider that only one of the Jedi melee classes is pure DPS - the sentinel. Guardians and Shadows have DPS specs, but they are technically tanks, so it makes sense that their DPS specs would be slightly weaker. In practice, however, their DPS specs can produce just as much damage as snipers if, again, they are supported by their team. i destroy ANY ranged class with my bomb spec guardian lol. There is not even near a chance any class can stand against a well played guardian. Actually guardians are pretty much on the same lvl of PT/VGs. If you have a bad fight a guardian destroys you with 4 hits. in 10 seconds. With 5-6-7k Hits with bomb spec any class is doomed to hell. Throw a saber and a force push and the fight is over so fast you dont even realize who you are
Skolops Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 i destroy ANY ranged class with my bomb spec guardian lol. There is not even near a chance any class can stand against a well played guardian. Actually guardians are pretty much on the same lvl of PT/VGs. If you have a bad fight a guardian destroys you with 4 hits. in 10 seconds. With 5-6-7k Hits with bomb spec any class is doomed to hell. Throw a saber and a force push and the fight is over so fast you dont even realize who you are Bomb spec?
ThorgrimLutgen Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 yes snipers op! http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=511935 thread started just sucks on any class. best burst? Line of sight noob!!!! 4200 from basic attack? wear something with expertise noob!!! come and play sniper first, then you can complain. But im sure that you will cry next day : "something else are op!" Did you actually read his/her post? Some kind of reading noob are we? OP has only played 1-49 it appears, so expertise a moot point, and a typical reaction I might add from many of the social skill noobs that inhabit internet forums. Whilst I don't agree with the OPs post, there really is no need to bash them in such an unpleasant manner. Struggling making a structured argument ? Conversation noob!
Vancanto Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Bomb spec? Focus for every1 who has no guardian ( Force sweep)
Skolops Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 Focus for every1 who has no guardian ( Force sweep) How are you supposedly getting hits of 5kish in rapid succession in Focus spec?
Vancanto Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 5k hits are not very big with 4 ticks of singularity ;-) i got hit by 8k yesterday from another guardian
Skolops Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 5k hits are not very big with 4 ticks of singularity ;-) i got hit by 8k yesterday from another guardian Yes, one of our Guardians (FS) has hit for 7k a few times recently. I understand how the spec works and have my own Guardian, which is why I am a bit confused by your post. Getting 5, 6, or 7 k crits from sweeps separated by the ramp up makes sense to me, but you seem to be implying you're hitting such crits 3 times in a 10 second span to finish off a sniper, which confuses me as I can't imagine what attacks are generating these, short of someone standing there and allowing you to master strike them while you wait for your next sweep.
Vancanto Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Yes, one of our Guardians (FS) has hit for 7k a few times recently. I understand how the spec works and have my own Guardian, which is why I am a bit confused by your post. Getting 5, 6, or 7 k crits from sweeps separated by the ramp up makes sense to me, but you seem to be implying you're hitting such crits 3 times in a 10 second span to finish off a sniper, which confuses me as I can't imagine what attacks are generating these, short of someone standing there and allowing you to master strike them while you wait for your next sweep. If you use Force Leap -> Force Stasis -> Force Sweep -> Force Push -> Saber Throw -> Masterstrike -> Dispatch you dont even have to crit very high to kill him with this attacks. Well 4 attacks and 10 seconds was a bit overrated. But leave it at 15 seconds and a few more attacks you are good to go. The enemy has not a lot of time to attack you since you use force push and force stasis Edited July 29, 2012 by Vancanto
dcgregorya Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 But now, after 2 weeks of PVP After 2 weeks of PVP you think you can actually make judgements about the power balance. Epic.
Scinald Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 If you use Force Leap -> Force Stasis -> Force Sweep -> Force Push -> Saber Throw -> Masterstrike -> Dispatch you dont even have to crit very high to kill him with this attacks. Well 4 attacks and 10 seconds was a bit overrated. But leave it at 15 seconds and a few more attacks you are good to go. The enemy has not a lot of time to attack you since you use force push and force stasis Lol....well....I guess the sniper won't be using cover pulse, entrench, leg shot, debilitate or shield probe to stop/slow you down while you are magically crushing him with your rotation. I have a full WH DPS Juggernaut. I have a Battlemaster sniper. My sniper eats DPS SW/JK alive and when I'm on my Jugg I go out of my way to kill snipers/gunslingers first if I can. Tanky juggs give him a few fits mostly b/c it takes too long to kill them. Pretty much any 1v1 the sniper is a wicked little class. But under focus he starts having some problems (like other dps classes). As for the original topic, I wouldn't say snipers are OP. But they are in a very nice place at the moment.
Lithy Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Lol....well....I guess the sniper won't be using cover pulse, entrench, leg shot, debilitate or shield probe to stop/slow you down while you are magically crushing him with your rotation. I have a full WH DPS Juggernaut. I have a Battlemaster sniper. My sniper eats DPS SW/JK alive and when I'm on my Jugg I go out of my way to kill snipers/gunslingers first if I can. Tanky juggs give him a few fits mostly b/c it takes too long to kill them. Pretty much any 1v1 the sniper is a wicked little class. But under focus he starts having some problems (like other dps classes). As for the original topic, I wouldn't say snipers are OP. But they are in a very nice place at the moment. And if the sniper is MM. thats -60% AOE damage in entrench so force sweep is Edited July 29, 2012 by Lithy
Rogoo Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) snipers simply give tripple or double dmg than jedi melee and from distance (tried all jedi characters, does not depend on armor or abilities, seing other around me with different classes and armor types).. This game is unballanced by this If your team leaves snipers just sitting there and dishing out damage... you all really deserve to die. Seriosly ? You leave the ranged DPS alone and complain ? What are your operatives / assasins doing ? o.O Snipers, while surely they pack a punch, are also the most easily killable / avoidable class in the game. Edited July 29, 2012 by Rogoo
Mortianna Posted July 29, 2012 Author Posted July 29, 2012 Thanks to all of you for inspiring conversation, advices, explanations.. I understand advantage of ranged classes over melee ones from distance, just did not understand melee classes like my sentinel die in few seconds in a fight, where i meet a sniper, worst of all two of them - healers can die trying but are not able to apply first heal salve on target dying faster than healers cast time..i saw saber defence in pve fights but havent noticed any saber defence against blasters or ranged energy weapons in pvp - writing my opinion, not a judgement..Anyway, thanks all intelligent responders, general chat was full of sarcastic, stupid or bold answers i am not interested in. Main problem was in damage comparing - many rpg*s have different classes including the ranged ones but havent seen ranged class do double or tripple damage on one shot than a melee specialist with strongest ability. I also uderstand and my opinion is that 10to49 chars can do pvp in warzone almost equal-whitch is reaaly cool-but with problem i saw and described, i see no reason to just run like target practice dummy in warzones..Sorry if this thread is stupid for advanced or pro players, but its their opinion, experience and advice i was looking for..
LenrocNewDawn Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) HI! I play both a SS slinger and a defense guardian so here are my 2 cents. As a melee player if you are expecting to close on a SS slinger over open terrain then you are in for a world of hurt. That's because he gets to shoot at you first and w/o using any of his CC abilities. So when you get on top of him he'll start with AOE KB with root attached and shoot you some more and waiting for his "Quick Aim" to proc. When you start approaching him he'll just use "Aimed shoot" KB you again w/o filling resolve then applies a leg shot and shoot you some more. When you approach him again he'll kick you in the nuts. Of course variations of this may occur depending if he has hunker down off CD and denying you the use of CC or you have your own CC breaker off CD, etc. Your first concern when engaging a sniper as a melee should be how to start the fight on your terms , meaning melee range. You can try to approach him using a route that he doesn't see or force jump to one of his teammates that is close to him or wait for him to move in order to jump to him directly. If your opening is successful then your chances will increase substantial. After that is just the dance, if he has Hunker Down on him burn a defensive CD(best CD cool down against a Hunkered sniper is breaking LOS) and don't try to CC him. Save the push for when he's channeling "Speed Shots" or activating his "Aimed shot" same with force stasis. Save the CC breaker for when you have full resolve. On a final note remember that the snipers are knights hard counter if you put on top of that a bad opening then you are guaranteed to lose the fight. Oh and please have the patience to try level 50 PvP but keep at it at least until you have a full BM set because recruit, while not being useless, is still the entry level gear for the 50 bracket. Edited July 29, 2012 by LenrocNewDawn
LHRFreak Posted July 29, 2012 Posted July 29, 2012 I actually have a 50 sniper, and I disagree with them being OP. I will immediately admit that I am not the best PvP'er and am more suited to ops than PVP. This aside, snipers are an annoyance for the enemy if left alone. We have several instant shot abilities that, if used properly, can ssist in a kill very easily. However, they are pretty much just support. Any melee class knows that the sniper has to face the target for all but a couple of their abilities. Meaning that if they just run in tight circles, the sniper is pretty much helpless. While the sniper may have range and a higher dps platform (pure dps class), they are also cursed by the fact that they must remain still for all of their abilities. As soon as we leave cover, whatever shield we had up, entrench or ballistic, go away. We also suffer from long channels for our more powerful shots (4.5 seconds base time for ambush). In short; If you play a melee class and can manage your cc's, the sniper is easy pickings if they are alone. If they have support... Then that is another story entirely.
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