Soluss Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 yes i understand that and retailers usually take 3% from the sale and taxes vary per country, digital takes no cut as it is origin and only taxes apply, so as your the math wiz work the math out. I have no idea if they recouped there money but try adding in the 6 month subs peeps % and see what you get and remember these sales figures are from release. You do the math. You are the one that claims they got their money back. We will say 200 million to make it easy because thats the generally accepted number. 2 million units sold is about right. Decide what you want to call the sub numbers to this point... and remember that 2 months were free. Add in the ongoing costs and see if you hit 200 million. I bet ya dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltydogg Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 This game is a lost cause end of story. The reason why you are not hearing any feed back is the same reason why no one heard feed back when Warhammer died. There is no feed back to be had. All the content that has come out was alredy premade, 90% of it was going to come out in release but EA rushed it to catch the Christmas rush, just like they did with Warhammer. They see the writing on the wall and that is evident with the Tweet of "The Star Wars fan base ruined this game" which was pretty much wiped off a unnamed developers page almost as soon as he put it up. In the end this game is exactally like Warhammer was a big failure thanks to EA. Here is a small list of what this game is to me: Bad content patches, horrible bugs still not addressed, no real content or plans for the future due to EA pulling the development plug, new carrots added to the broken stick to keep people interested, horrible pvp balance, horrible ability mechanics on some classes still not addressed, HOLY crap buy a game engine that can hold more than 40 people fighting in one area, questing and game content on a complete rail system no matter what class you play, RESOLVE SYSTEM enough said there, 1.2 nerf on healing that totally screwed some healing classes, Expertise (I love how my damage has increased yet my healing remains the same the more Expertise I get), horrible trade network to start off with, no feeling of being in a guild (no colors or symbol on armor ect, easy mode FP's that a pug group of 6 year olds with no hands one eye and ADHD could complete, SPACE LOL, the total disaster on the one and only pvp planet, end game gear means nothing in pvp unless you have end game pvp gear (all fp gear is useless), having a neutral planet that flags you for pvp when flying to said neutral base just to have 30 enemies standing there greifing, lack of gear design, horrible story arc for the majority of Republic classes. The list goes on and on and on. Needless to say this will be my last month here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soluss Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I'm trying to figure out how TOR is going to become Tabula Rasa. I'm still trying to understand how 500-750k subs is so terrible, in and of itself. It isnt in itself. Its a question on whether they keep that number or not. Its also a question on what they consider their profit point. This is what EA said At half a million subscribers, the game is substantially profitable, but it's not the sort of thing we would write home about," Riccitiello said. "Anything north of one million subscribers is a very profitable business." Hanging around 500k subs doesnt seem like what they are after. The way things are looking to people, I dont think they will even have that number. Speculation of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) watch to learn about DLC http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/mass-effect-3-dlc oh and Avatar basically did that when they relased the special edition in theaters with 10 mins of bonus footage. Hell George Lucas does that. yes and? WAR took 6 years and was a licensed property and cost less then 100 million dollars. AoC also cost less then $100 million and took around 6 years, also a licensed IP. In fact I really doubt Bioware had to pay a dime until the game was released especially since Sony was still running SWG. But again I guarntee the SW IP for a MMO is based off of percentage of profits not by anual fees. Using your numbers (with the exception of QA because those guys DO get paid penuts) and giving them ALL 80k a year for 6 years the total is only 184 million So STILL under 200 million and that is way overboard seeing as 1. all those people didn't work for all 6 years 2. a lot of those artists where outsourced 3. No way in hell everyone got paid 80,000 year. More likely the bulk of them got paid 40k or less. Despite what you might think game developers don't get paid much. Especially by EA who pays it's employees the least and especially during tough economic times. So even by your numbers not even 200 million /endthread. Excuse me it's time for me to go out for my run. Additional costs Licensed IP Software Licenses (Hero Engine, Windows Software, Build Engines, Ect.) Initial Cost to set up Tech for developers and game, Server Set ups can cost between $1m- +$25m, air conditioning unit alone is probably worth 1m-2m range, (Servers are in house, it easier to maintain, fix, do maintenance, if one goes down they need to be on hand to repair it ASAP) Building Costs (Lease, Electrical, IT) 300+ Actors, (average voice over actor earns around 50k a year, I have no idea how long they where hired for) renting of recording studio at $500 an hour with additional overhead to staff the studio add an additional $500 an hour, Writers, to write an re-write scripts Music 250k of lines with Takes and Retakes Director of sound make between 200k-500k Executive and management salary (250k-1m) Average costs near the end of a production (usually around the eight month to launch mark) usually run at 150%-200% more because of overtime Edited July 31, 2012 by Ensquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 watch to learn about DLC http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/mass-effect-3-dlc no really it's extremely informative. oh and Avatar basically did that when they relased the special edition in theaters with 10 mins of bonus footage. Hell George Lucas does that. yes and? WAR took 6 years and was a licensed property and cost less then 100 million dollars. AoC also cost less then $100 million and took around 6 years, also a licensed IP. In fact I really doubt Bioware had to pay a dime until the game was released especially since Sony was still running SWG. But again I guarntee the SW IP for a MMO is based off of percentage of profits not by anual fees. Using your numbers (with the exception of QA because those guys DO get paid penuts) and giving them ALL 80k a year for 6 years the total is only 184 million So STILL under 200 million and that is way overboard seeing as 1. all those people didn't work for all 6 years 2. a lot of those artists where outsourced 3. No way in hell everyone got paid 80,000 year. More likely the bulk of them got paid 40k or less. Despite what you might think game developers don't get paid much. Especially by EA who pays it's employees the least and especially during tough economic times. So even by your numbers not even 200 million /endthread. Excuse me it's time for me to go out for my run. Your right and all the voice actors all worked for free. I dont think some of the big boys in SWTOR only made 80k either. You think dallas and Rich only made 80k a year? They most likely made well over 100k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Your right and all the voice actors all worked for free. I dont think some of the big boys in SWTOR only made 80k either. You think dallas and Rich only made 80k a year? They most likely made well over 100k voice actors don't make much but as I said yes some (a very few made more) and the vast majority of them made much much less then 80k a year. AND very very few of them worked for 6 years. Seroiulsy it's like i'm taking crazy pills here. if you guys aren't going to bother to read or even comprehend what I type then this entire thread is pointless. oh and Ensquire salary employees typically don't get overtime. Edited July 31, 2012 by jarjarloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) voice actors don't make much but as I said yes some (a very few made more) and the vast majority of them made much much less then 80k a year. AND very very few of them worked for 6 years. Seroiulsy it's like i'm taking crazy pills here. if you guys aren't going to bother to read or even comprehend what I type then this entire thread is pointless. oh and Ensquire salary employees typically don't get overtime. You have no evidence to show me to suggest that the numbers are less than 200 million, other than pointless cartoons about nothing Edited July 31, 2012 by Ensquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blattan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Seroiulsy it's like i'm taking crazy pills here. I'll accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 You have no evidence to show me to suggest that the numbers are less than 200 million .... I showed you using your own numbers and giving every one 80k over 6 years which is absolutely inacurate and it was still less then 200 million... I'm at a loss for words here. I could break it down using estimates for who worked when and for how much but I guarantee it will be far less then 200 million. Hell it will be less then 184 million. All right i'm out maybe i'll come back tomorrow and maybe you won't be spewing absolutely ignorant crap out of your mouth tomorrow.... nah that's not gonna happen but maybe you will learn how to read. hey did you ever figure out where this article you linked says the game cost $200 million to make ? http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-21-stock-ticker-why-eas-market-valuation-has-crashed/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I'll accept that. right over your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blattan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 right over your head Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 .... I showed you using your own numbers and giving every one 80k over 6 years which is absolutely inacurate and it was still less then 200 million... I'm at a loss for words here. I could break it down using estimates for who worked when and for how much but I guarantee it will be far less then 200 million. Hell it will be less then 184 million. All right i'm out maybe i'll come back tomorrow and maybe you won't be spewing absolutely ignorant crap out of your mouth tomorrow.... nah that's not gonna happen but maybe you will learn how to read. hey did you ever figure out where this article you linked says the game cost $200 million to make ? http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-21-stock-ticker-why-eas-market-valuation-has-crashed/ Quote from same article "given the game's much-publicised high development costs (which probably make it the most expensive game project ever)" Maybe you can give me something that suggest the number is much lower because i can give you pages that think the number is in the 500million range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 You have no evidence to show me to suggest that the numbers equal to or more than 200 million, other than pointless blogs quoting discredited numbers Fixed that for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Fixed that for ya Firstly, there's Star Wars: The Old Republic. EA's stock price went into decline after The Old Republic's launch, and hasn't recovered yet - and that timing is unlikely to be a coincidence. Expectations among investors for SWTOR were extremely high, given the game's much-publicised high development costs (which probably make it the most expensive game project ever), the strength of the Star Wars license, the track record of developer Bioware and, crucially, the tantalising possibility of building an ongoing MMO revenue stream for EA which would match the one enjoyed by rival Activision Blizzard from World of Warcraft. While it would be unfair to characterise SWTOR as a complete failure, it has certainly not been a success on the level which EA or its investors would have wanted. The game has lost 400,000 subscribers since February, and it seems inevitable that the company will be forced into an embarrassing (but probably commercially sensible) transition to a free-to-play model sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Firstly, there's Star Wars: The Old Republic. EA's stock price went into decline after The Old Republic's launch, and hasn't recovered yet - and that timing is unlikely to be a coincidence. Expectations among investors for SWTOR were extremely high, given the game's much-publicised high development costs (which probably make it the most expensive game project ever), the strength of the Star Wars license, the track record of developer Bioware and, crucially, the tantalising possibility of building an ongoing MMO revenue stream for EA which would match the one enjoyed by rival Activision Blizzard from World of Warcraft. While it would be unfair to characterise SWTOR as a complete failure, it has certainly not been a success on the level which EA or its investors would have wanted. The game has lost 400,000 subscribers since February, and it seems inevitable that the company will be forced into an embarrassing (but probably commercially sensible) transition to a free-to-play model sooner rather than later. Opinions are like ..... well you know the rest ..... move along there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeda Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 .... I showed you using your own numbers and giving every one 80k over 6 years which is absolutely inacurate and it was still less then 200 million... I'm at a loss for words here. I could break it down using estimates for who worked when and for how much but I guarantee it will be far less then 200 million. Hell it will be less then 184 million. All right i'm out maybe i'll come back tomorrow and maybe you won't be spewing absolutely ignorant crap out of your mouth tomorrow.... nah that's not gonna happen but maybe you will learn how to read. hey did you ever figure out where this article you linked says the game cost $200 million to make ? http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-21-stock-ticker-why-eas-market-valuation-has-crashed/ You came up with 186 million I think? Thats also not counting the 300+ voice actors which I can promise you didnt work for pennys. That also doesnt include what they have to pay EA When you want to talk about profits you need to include LA's cost in there also. Again I dont think LA gave their IP for free or even just for a few million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Market watch, ToR development, $500 million http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electronic-arts-riccitiello-aims-high-2012-01-17?pagenumber=2 “I think it’s safe to say that the total all-in investment in ‘Star Wars’ is probably approaching half a billion dollars,” Creutz says. “EA has minimized its risks as much as it can on this bet, but it’s still a risky bet. To the extent that any one game defines his tenure, it’s going to be how ‘Star Wars’ performs.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTREDEN Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Common thread here is how the company treats its customers. Sometimes a game is so great customers lightly overlook it, but not so true with MMO's. In a game that you play over a long period of time, having a company you feel is not on your side and not making decisions that support growth is a big deal, at least to me. The biggest issue though is they keep releasing sub-par games. Half finished or inferior to competitor products. The only thing that somewhat saved the ship with this game was the Star Wars franchise and loyal fans to the genre that just wanted a great SW fantasy game to play. We stuck around through a game that was released before it was ready. Maybe the only people who are left are people who just prefer star wars to wow and other games, because this game has not been as high quality as its competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mothear Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Market watch, ToR development, $500 million http://www.marketwatch.com/story/electronic-arts-riccitiello-aims-high-2012-01-17?pagenumber=2 “I think it’s safe to say that the total all-in investment in ‘Star Wars’ is probably approaching half a billion dollars,” Creutz says. “EA has minimized its risks as much as it can on this bet, but it’s still a risky bet. To the extent that any one game defines his tenure, it’s going to be how ‘Star Wars’ performs.” More opinion, there's a reason Carlsberg says 'probably' the best lager in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Esquire is really not gonna like me....But I couldn't Help myself:D http://www.vg247.com/2011/05/05/analyst-swtor-could-cost-ea-as-much-as-80-million-to-develop/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Esquire is really not gonna like me....But I couldn't Help myself:D http://www.vg247.com/2011/05/05/analyst-swtor-could-cost-ea-as-much-as-80-million-to-develop/ Original Thread http://www.industrygamers.com/news/star-wars-mmo-costs-an-estimated-80-million-to-develop/ The actual original annalist was from the Highly respectable Micheal Pachtor (No I mean that Pachtors awesome), whom cased his projections from an estimated staff of only 200 of six years of development We now know that number sits around 600 So having said that the number of costs could be and should be much higher Edit quote from the article "with an estimated 200 full-time developers working on it, we estimate that EA’s investment exceeds $80 million," Also those projections did not take into account the Voice staff or actors Actual Number 30 Production 75 Designers 80 Engineers 40 Platform 10 Localization 10 Audio 140 Artists (Both internal and outsourced) 280 QA (Both internal and outsourced) Edited July 31, 2012 by Ensquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBetty Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Esquire is really not gonna like me....But I couldn't Help myself:D http://www.vg247.com/2011/05/05/analyst-swtor-could-cost-ea-as-much-as-80-million-to-develop/ Wow $80 million? really? That literally does mean that their r&d costs were completetly covered in initial sales. I wouldn't call that a financial disaster lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taorus Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Original Thread http://www.industrygamers.com/news/star-wars-mmo-costs-an-estimated-80-million-to-develop/ The actual original annalist was from the Highly respectable Micheal Pachtor (No I mean that Pachtors awesome), whom cased his projections from an estimated staff of only 200 of six years of development We now know that number sits around 600 So having said that the number of costs could be and should be much higher Edit quote from the article "with an estimated 200 full-time developers working on it, we estimate that EA’s investment exceeds $80 million," Actual You mean the Analyst....His name is Michael Pachter. and beside a link to the many bloggers you like to link to...you have a link for 600 Full Time Developers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensquire Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/122/1220280p1.html You mean the Analyst....His name is Michael Pachter. and beside a link to the many bloggers you like to link to...you have a link for 600 Full Time Developers? Edited July 31, 2012 by Ensquire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blattan Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Esquire is really not gonna like me....But I couldn't Help myself:D http://www.vg247.com/2011/05/05/analyst-swtor-could-cost-ea-as-much-as-80-million-to-develop/ From the article, first paragraph (two, if you count the summary): This massive number was figured by the analyst by adding together the presumed cost of development, along with EA having to front all expenses for the game, plus pay a royalty to Lucasarts. It is just an opinion piece! Michael Pachter did zero research! :-P (And for the sarcasm impaired, that is just a little jab at some other posters. Not serious.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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