Daiyukie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Can someone please explain how Expertise is a problem when it cancels itself out at equal gear level? If you're being outgeared, of course they have an advantage; if you have the same Expertise level, it's a non-factor by design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eszi Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Just played my sorc with recruit gear, topped the damage once, got 2nd 3 times. It's a l2p issue and better gear won't make the difference you want it to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todgins Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Can someone please explain how Expertise is a problem when it cancels itself out at equal gear level? If you're being outgeared, of course they have an advantage; if you have the same Expertise level, it's a non-factor by design. People are playing 10 warzones, getting 1 piece of BM and complaining about people who have spend alot of time playing warzones and got themselves a WH set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fujeo-finel Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Just played my sorc with recruit gear, topped the damage once, got 2nd 3 times. So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 People are playing 10 warzones, getting 1 piece of BM and complaining about people who have spend alot of time playing warzones and got themselves a WH set. Which is called being outgeared, so what do they expect? Do they also complain about going into a Raid with Tionese gear and not doing as much damage as the guy in Black Hole and Campaign augmented stuff? Come on people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) gosh darn, you're everywhere! You play a Sentinel on a PvE server and think you're hot **** in PvP, I mean jeez. Stop saying L2P in every damn thread please. Yeah L2P, you realize without Expertise pvers would destroy everything? Marauders running around right now with 2100 Strength and 1700 Endurance? Actually i'm up for that since they are my mirror class. REMOVE EXPERTISE XD! i would love to have those stats. And people say Marauders/Sentinels are overpowered now rofl. Umad? Edited July 26, 2012 by PowerReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) I am up for removing Expertise =) we need Assassins like Praven running around with 27k HP and Sentinels/Marauders running around with 1800 Endurance and 2000+ Strength =) REMOVE EXPERTISE! Edited July 26, 2012 by PowerReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Yeah L2P, you realize without Expertise pvers would destroy everything? Marauders running around right now with 2100 Strength and 1700 Endurance? Actually i'm up for that since they are my mirror class. REMOVE EXPERTISE XD! i would love to have those stats. And people say Marauders/Sentinels are overpowered now rofl. Umad? Lol, how did my post in any way state that I am for removing Expertise? Please learn to read.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Lol, how did my post in any way state that I am for removing Expertise? Please learn to read.. Please L2P =) and isn't this the time you should be ranting about how every class is overpowered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Please L2P =) and isn't this the time you should be ranting about how every class is overpowered? Only class I can't kill 1v1 is the Marauder/Sentinel, so no, not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Only class I can't kill 1v1 is the Marauder/Sentinel, so no, not really. Oh yeah that's right, all you people qqing about removing Expertise and how you can't beat Marauders and Sentinels. Have a good time trying to beat them if expertise is removed when they have 2000+ Strength and 1800+ Endurance from pve gear =) Edited July 26, 2012 by PowerReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Oh yeah that's right, all you people qqing about removing Expertise and how you can't beat Marauders and Sentinels. Have a good time trying to beat them if expertise is removed when they have 2000+ Strength and 1800+ Endurance from pve gear =) Like I said, where did you get the idea that I want Expertise removed? Do read the entire thread before spewing nonsense, no one with half a brain or more wants Expertise gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Like I said, where did you get the idea that I want Expertise removed? Do read the entire thread before spewing nonsense, no one with half a brain or more wants Expertise gone. No, you brought up a good point about Marauders/Sentinels that's all, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Can someone please explain how Expertise is a problem when it cancels itself out at equal gear level? If you're being outgeared, of course they have an advantage; if you have the same Expertise level, it's a non-factor by design. People are playing 10 warzones, getting 1 piece of BM and complaining about people who have spend alot of time playing warzones and got themselves a WH set. Which is called being outgeared, so what do they expect? Do they also complain about going into a Raid with Tionese gear and not doing as much damage as the guy in Black Hole and Campaign augmented stuff? Come on people. There you go, since reading is hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 There you go, since reading is hard this is what you need to do =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 this is what you need to do =) Can't do Youtube at work, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Oh Cristine. I'll give you this, you're consistent. Anyway expertise should NOT be removed from the game simply because there is PVE and PVP in this game. If expertise is removed then all the PVPers will QQ because top tier PVEers will be able to roll in with best stats and kill everyone without having done any PVP. By the SAME token if you adjust the gear so top tier PVP gear has the same stats as PVE then people who have never set foot in Hard Mode EC would be able to walk in with BiS gear to any raid and be viable. (So the door swings both ways). This is already partially a problem with War Hero Relics being BiS for PVE, and War Hero barrels/hilts being arguably 2nd best for certain DPS classes as well. I would suggest that recruit gear be bolstered to Tionese or even Columni level since the biggest problem is how absolutely horrid the stats are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucks Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 When it comes to PvP, I'm much more interested in which team has better players than which team spends more time farming comms. It might be very enjoyable if they scrap the gear all together in warzones and implement a mechanic to make everyone basically equal. Then we can aspire to well-deserved prestige, titles, unique gear models, etc. As it stands, we're motivated to get war hero gear so that we don't have to try as hard. Regardless of whether I'm on a toon with augmented war hero gear or a fresh 50 with recruit and battlemaster gear, it's just not as much fun when the fight isn't fair. We'd still need to have some customization in our play styles so I propose a warzone builder for each spec that will allow players to spend a set number of points on their stats and attributes to be used in warzones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babykahna Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 why do people in recruit gear feel that warzones are unfair? often i see regular warzones where people in recruit gear get paired with teams of geared people. and those who are fully geared are usually in rated warzones where they dont have time to pick on recruit geared people. unless the problem is where recruit geared people feel that they should be allowed to be competitive in a rated warzone which then makes no sense. the whole point of gearing yourself up just like in PVE, is so that you can be more competitive and take on better competition. Should people be allowed to use columni gear and down explosive conflict hard mode? No. There is always a gear tree. If anything, its the dying population and the lack of people in warzones. Bioware needs a system where gear scores and team rating factors into the team of opponent you play. But with a dying population, obviously badly geared people trying to do rateds are then paired against the top levels of competition simply because there is barely anyone queueing. Heck its the reason multiple top pvp guilds on my server have quit....the lack of competition. And yeah I guess I feel bad for facerolling certain teams but should the entire pvp system be changed simply because Bioware can't maintain the interests of its population? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zin-Zin Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) I happen to like that in order to get good gear for PVPing, you have to...PVP. I've played a lot of MMOs and it had always bugged me when the best way to get pvp gear was by doing craptons of pve raids. I'd think that this model would work better for those people who enjoy the pvp game, so I don't really see the reasoning behind all the complaining over the existence of a 'pvp stat'. The inherent gear gap at level 50 is another story, but even that doesn't bother me as much as the prospect of raid, raid, raid just to pvp. I still beat people in my recruit gear, and when I lose I tend to pick apart the fight to figure if there was anything at all gameplay-wise I can improve. I've learned a lot that way. Edit to add: TOR is probably the first MMO I've played where I'm really enjoying working on my gear, looking forward to upgrades, all of that. Because I enjoy what I'm doing in order to GAIN the gear. Edited July 26, 2012 by Zin-Zin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renita Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I happen to like that in order to get good gear for PVPing, you have to...PVP. I've played a lot of MMOs and it had always bugged me when the best way to get pvp gear was by doing craptons of pve raids. I'd think that this model would work better for those people who enjoy the pvp game, so I don't really see the reasoning behind all the complaining over the existence of a 'pvp stat'. The inherent gear gap at level 50 is another story, but even that doesn't bother me as much as the prospect of raid, raid, raid just to pvp. I still beat people in my recruit gear, and when I lose I tend to pick apart the fight to figure if there was anything at all gameplay-wise I can improve. I've learned a lot that way. Edit to add: TOR is probably the first MMO I've played where I'm really enjoying working on my gear, looking forward to upgrades, all of that. Because I enjoy what I'm doing in order to GAIN the gear. The sad thing is you do have to raid or dish out a massive amount of creds to get the best pvp gear as it is. The top teams replace some of their expertise for more main stats because there comes a point that more expertise is not better than more main stats. The true gap is augmenting, while I agree it seems silly to augment recruit gear, you really should augment your battlemaster. You will have it for a very long time. And you can use the same augment in your warhero gear anyways, and the kits are really not that expensive anymore. If you put a fully aug team of mainly battlemaster gear who are working together on a high skill level they will beat a fully aug team of warhero gear if the warhero geared team is less skilled or equal skilled, but the first team to make a mistake loses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 The difference in main stats and secondary stats are more responsible for the difference between the effectiveness of War Hero and of Recruit gear than Expertise. You can very quickly get to about 1000 Expertise, after that it doesn't make that big a difference. The main stats and secondary stats on Recruit gear, however, are very low, especially compared to augmented War Hero. Please note I'm in no way saying that this is either a good or a bad thing, I'm just saying that Expertise isn't that important. It serves its purpose: that high-end PvE gear doesn't dominate PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scritchy Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 unless the problem is where recruit geared people feel that they should be allowed to be competitive in a rated warzone which then makes no sense. the whole point of gearing yourself up just like in PVE, is so that you can be more competitive and take on better competition. Should people be allowed to use columni gear and down explosive conflict hard mode? No. There is always a gear tree. If anything, its the dying population and the lack of people in warzones. Bioware needs a system where gear scores and team rating factors into the team of opponent you play. But with a dying population, obviously badly geared people trying to do rateds are then paired against the top levels of competition simply because there is barely anyone queueing. Heck its the reason multiple top pvp guilds on my server have quit....the lack of competition. And yeah I guess I feel bad for facerolling certain teams but should the entire pvp system be changed simply because Bioware can't maintain the interests of its population? No. You can't call it competitive when the only competition is who has more time to farm comms until everybody has the max gear. PVE is suppose to be a progression environment, PVP is suppose to be a competitive one. The reason the population is dying is because PVP sucks. Gear grinds have no place in PVP, all the stats should be normalized to your class, modified by your ability trees. The current situation is the same thing that is going on in WAR, people leave and nobody is going to backfill because the gear gap is too large. It makes the game more frustrating than fun, which in turn forces more to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkiestj Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Well this is refreshing... someone QQing about a PT dying too quick? I LOLed. Also, . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supafreak Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Expertise is important because it means you are a PVPer and you dont do Op's to get gear to kill people in. You have to PVP to be able to PVP. My problem is, you have to PVP for 1000's of matches before you can reach a point where you can PVP where skill matters, because of expertise. If IM in full recruit, im pretty well screwed if I want to do any balanced PVP until I grind out a few thousand matches. I think expertise should be like valor and be a part of you and mark you as a PVPer (with a cap), instead of coming from gear. Trade in comms for looks, gear (without expertise), or trade in for expertise itself. This way you still have to be a pvper to pvp, you cant raid to pvp, but it wont matter what you wear after that, your expertise is a part of you But if someone maxes warhero expertise and campaign gear...then truly they have too much time on their hands, and probably deserve to be godly.....ok so its not perfect idea but it's a start. I feel as though we should reach a lvl playing field sooner, so we can all start Pvping for real. I dont see the sense in getting facestommped no matter how good you are, for hundreds of hours because of gear gaps, to slowly grind up to be able to start real play. It's boring and not fun at all, it's a chore, not a game. This is not a "I want free war hero" post Edited July 26, 2012 by supafreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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