Gunnery commando PVE Guide

[Boufsa]

Note: PVP players should take a look at my Gunnery commando PVP Guide

 

Ok, There is so much waste on how a lots of commandos are misunderstanding their class, that I think a guide is definetely needed.

 

I personnaly reach the 1600 DPS on the "operation training dummy", and I already cleaned EC HM and killed the nightmare pilgrim several times. I am now going to explain how I designed my commando.

 

I Talent tree

I used this Talent tree. Some minor variations are indeed possible around this.

 

II Stats optimization

1) Have around 100% accuracy. I am at 99.87% currently

2) Without stims and buffs, have between 30% and 33% crit chance. I am around 32.3% currently

3) You have to know that 1 point aim is a little better than 1 point power. Consider that 1 aim = 1.1 power and maximize both to have the bigger values. For example you will use aim augments rather than power augments, but you will trade "+68 aim/.../+12 power" modifications for "+51 aim/.../+41power" ones

4) Once you have done all this, you should not have the possibility to change another stat, but if you can do it, go for surge and try to maximize it.

 

And indeed, you NEED the 4 pieces set bonus.

 

 

III Base cycle and ammo management

 

I have met a lot of guys who don't know how to manage their ammo, they begin by using all their ammo in one go, then they reload and keep going, while having to use a lot of hammer shot because ammo regenerates too slowly. To help things get worse, some of them still use abilities like charged bolts and explosive round, which are a total waste past level 25.

 

Here are the 5 only skills you have to use when training on the dummy:

- Full auto (FA)

- High impact Bolt (HiB)

- Demolition Round (DR)

- Gravitationnal Round (GR)

- Hammer shot.

 

Keep in mind that ammo management is your top priority, you have to make so that your ammo bar is always filled at minimum 7/12. Keep your reload for emergency cases when you missed something in your cycle, or if you just used your doping and relics and want to maximize your dps output while they are active. Use you reserve round for the same purpose.

 

I don't have a cycle, because I am dependent on the proc of the effect Curtain of Fire (CoF) which reset the FA cooldown and increases its damages. I will start the fight with GR x3, then FA, then HiB. After that, depending on my ammo bar and CoF procs, I will use FA as much as possible, often use GR to keep my debuffs on the target active and have a chance that CoF will proc, and use HiB every time it is up since it costs no ammo while dealing great damages. If my cycle does not cost too much ammo (CoF procs often), I will also use DR, and on the opposite, if my ammo regeneration is too slow, I will give it some air and use hammer shot.

 

Here is one of my dummy training for those wanting to look at the stats.

 

IV Some more hints

You don't have interrupts but you have two bumps, one stun, one mezz, that's four ways of indirect interrupting. It won't work on bosses, but on other players and elites it will do the job even better than a real interrupt since some players abilities are uninterruptable.

 

The GC is not a very mobile class, but it doesn't have a very complicated cycle. What I want to point out is that you have a lot more time for reacting than the guy who have to use 15 different abilities in the correct order if he wants to output some damage, because that guy will spend most of its time looking at his bars while you will have time to overlook the situation. So don't fall asleep on your easy cycle, keep an eye open to look around you, warn the team every time something happens, and leave quicker the enemies aoes. If your healers seem to encounter some trouble, you can temporarily give them a little help, if some of your teammates have physical debuff damage on them, you can cleanse them (sages cannot cleanse physical effects like fire, you will save a lot of their mana by doing this).

 

On a side note, please note that the GR ammo is used only once the canalization time is over. Meaning that if you are fighting a boss with a lot of aoe, you won't use full auto and take the risk to have it interrupted halfway because you have to move, but rather use GR since if you have to move out, at least you won't have lost your ammo.

 

Last but not least, I gave you the 5 abilities to use on "pole type" boss. Of course their are other abilities you will have to use depending on the fight. I only explained the basics here, it's up to you to know all you abilities and learn to use them wisely depending on the situation.

 

V PVP

I have to warn you the gameplay in pvp is very different from the pve gameplay, be wary and look at the pvp guide (from my signature), because you will face clever opponents that know how to cause you trouble. But one good thing about pvp is that it will teach you how to move, how to optimize your placement, and how to not waste your cycle in stressful situations. I definitely recommend you to give it a try or two.

 

I don't have looted a campaign assault cannon yet, so I am using a barrel that I extracted from a War hero weapon. Compared to the rakata I lost some aim, but gain a higher damage range, so I think it is worth trying.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Boufsa

[deadandburied]

This would be the way to gear with all best in slot gearing. Commando BIS post 1.3

 

For talents you can use 7/31/3, 6/31/4 or 5/31/5 as shown in game and not to be confused with tors incorrect layout. The difference between them are the alacrity talents. That being 5%, 7% and 4% respectively. The 6/31/4 talent build would sim the highest at approx 1950 dps. I use the 5/31/5 talent build myself. I been using this mostly as i'm used to the timing and ammo management of this build.

 

When to use Full Auto. Should you wait for a curtain of fire proc or not. Usually the correct answer is no you should not wait for the proc. There are exceptions like if HiB is coming off cooldown in ~4.3 seconds and FA is off cooldown you know you will use both a Grav Round and a Full Auto in that time frame. So hit Grav first as it may proc CoF. If it doesn't you still hit FA.

 

Demo Round and High Impact bolt are very important in your rotation. Not to nit pick the Op but he should have equal amounts of hits for Demo and HiB. And both Reserve Powercell and Reload should be a part of your rotation and NOT used for emergencies. Missing out on quite of bit of dps is you don't use them correctly in your rotation.

Edited July 25, 2012 by deadandburied

[ArchangelLBC]

Good post overall. I agree with your choice of gearing priority (the BiS profile posted above could stand to switch out a few power/surge enhancements for crit/surge in my opinion, but I think that's mostly a personal preference than anything), as well as your talent build.

 

My preferred opening rotation goes Grav Round x3 > HiB > FA > DR. The HiB gives enough time to regen ammo so that when you use FA you'll still be in top tier regen after you spend the ammo, which FA will regen during it's channel, and then there's plenty of ammo for DR. From there I more or less agree with your priority. HiB whenever it's up, FA whenever CoF procs (I personally prefer not using ammo if I don't get the proc, but this is definitely something I could change), DR whenever its up, and grav round if none of those are available. Use hammer shot if you're at 6 ammo.

 

I usually use Reserve Powercell if I'm at around 7 ammo and want to use FA, since it will give me the longest time to regen ammo during the cast. HiB > RP > DR would also be viable. Depends on ammo level. If I'm on a part of the fight where I really need to push out the damage and recharge cells is up I'll push the limit as long as I can and use it when I run dry. It's actually pretty impressive how hard it is to completely run dry just using FA, GR, DR, and HIB.

 

My last test on the dummy had lower DPS but I just finally got my war hero barrel so I'll be testing again soon. I had columni before but I agree that it's also better than a rakata barrel. The extra damage is just too good (Basically 35 damage is better than 25 aim).

[Boufsa]

This would be the way to gear with all best in slot gearing. Commando BIS post 1.3.

I think we almost use the same gear, excepted for the relics. I am still using the matricial cube, but your relics seem great, I will definetly take a look.

 

Demo Round and High Impact bolt are very important in your rotation. Not to nit pick the Op but he should have equal amounts of hits for Demo and HiB. And both Reserve Powercell and Reload should be a part of your rotation and NOT used for emergencies. Missing out on quite of bit of dps is you don't use them correctly in your rotation.

 

Err... I am totally okay with this, but I think you are pushing it too far. My original purpose was not to make the ultimate gunnery optimisation guide, but to give the correct directions for undertanding the class. Since I am not that good in focusing on the perfect cycle, I can't make "Reserve Powercell" and "reload" a part of my rotation, but even though, I am still using them as much as possible. When I know they are about to be off cooldown, I just use a cycle a little more agressive in ammo consumption.

 

But if there are things you think incorrect/incomplete in the guide and want them reformulated, just PM me or say it there and I will edit the post. Actually english is not my mother language, so incorrect formulations are not improbables

[Ziggymaster]

Thanks - I found this discussion very helpful. I just finished leveling my commando and really didn't have a good grasp of what to use in endgame rotation. It's similar to my gunslinger, where you can just focus on a few key abilities and do a lot of damage.

[Acrolepsia]

I Talent tree

I used this Talent tree. Some minor variations are indeed possible around this.

 

I dont quite understand the 2 points spent on he alacrity talent (Weapon Calibrations). Whats the point for a gunnery mando?

Wouldn't it be better to get 2% endurance (soldier's endurance) or even 2% healing done/received (Advanced Tech) ?

[Aaoogaa]

I dont quite understand the 2 points spent on he alacrity talent (Weapon Calibrations). Whats the point for a gunnery mando?

Wouldn't it be better to get 2% endurance (soldier's endurance) or even 2% healing done/received (Advanced Tech) ?

 

The alacrity will allow you to cast grav round/ FA faster...yes, this will use ammo quicker but you still get the same damage per ammo used. You will then be able to throw in additional hammer shots to keep ammo up thus increasing your overall dps, as long as you can maintain the same damage per ammo with grav/FA/etc. Adding endurace or heals does not increase damage and if dps is your role you would not take them.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Aaoogaa

[ArchangelLBC]

The alacrity will allow you to cast grav round/ FA faster...yes, this will use ammo quicker but you still get the same damage per ammo used. You will then be able to throw in additional hammer shots to keep ammo up thus increasing your overall dps, as long as you can maintain the same damage per ammo with grav/FA/etc. Adding endurace or heals does not increase damage and if dps is your role you would not take them.

 

This. While you never want to gear for alacrity, it's definitely worth taking the talent for all specs of commando.

[deadandburied]

Good post overall. I agree with your choice of gearing priority (the BiS profile posted above could stand to switch out a few power/surge enhancements for crit/surge in my opinion, but I think that's mostly a personal preference than anything), as well as your talent build.

 

The gear posted is what sims out the highest. That isn't the gear i have. I don't have the 2 war hero relics yet. So i'm using a matrix cube and champ relic and 1 less crit mod until i do get them. I also don't use Rakata shells as i prefer to go for looks. So short 22 Aim due to that. Other than that it's the same.

 

Your rotation is pretty much spot on to include using reserve powercell with FA. By far the best way to get ammo back. HiB before Demo works great for ammo regen like you said. Depending on the fight there are times when you should use reserve powercell/tech overide/plasma grenade. Although it isn't needed for Kephess hard mode for us any more i'm sure we'll need it for nitemare on the Trandoshan Trenchgutters. And probably on the Vorgath fight. Use on the big probe to get aeo damage on the 3 adds.

[ArchangelLBC]

The gear posted is what sims out the highest. That isn't the gear i have. I don't have the 2 war hero relics yet. So i'm using a matrix cube and champ relic and 1 less crit mod until i do get them. I also don't use Rakata shells as i prefer to go for looks. So short 22 Aim due to that. Other than that it's the same.

 

Your rotation is pretty much spot on to include using reserve powercell with FA. By far the best way to get ammo back. HiB before Demo works great for ammo regen like you said. Depending on the fight there are times when you should use reserve powercell/tech overide/plasma grenade. Although it isn't needed for Kephess hard mode for us any more i'm sure we'll need it for nitemare on the Trandoshan Trenchgutters. And probably on the Vorgath fight. Use on the big probe to get aeo damage on the 3 adds.

 

Looking back at the profile I withdraw my previous objections actually. That profile is using more crit mods and more power enhancements. I tend to like to keep my Mods and Enhancements both focusing on Crit or Power because I get OCD over stupid things. I just saw the stats and looked at the enhancements without remembering that AMR can be kinda fuzzy on the stats vs actual ingame stats. I agree with saving Reserve Powercell for use with Tech Override and Plasma grenade for the few times you actually need that kind of AoE power, and yeah at the moment HM Kephess is the only one that really needs that kind of thing, and that not always, though it's not a bad approach to killing the adds on Vorgath either.

 

Also I like how rakata gear looks (though I use an onslaught helmet. Rakata helmet is absolutely horrifying, but you don't need the helmet to get the 4 piece set bonus).

[Boufsa]

I also like the combination reserve powercell + plasma grenade, but If I remember correctly, effects are limited to 3 targets, and in the kephess HM fight I didn't find it worth using. I preferred using it with mortar volley which costs 3 ammo and impacts more targets, then using our lightnings and HoB to finish the packs.

 

But in pvp I saw several posts of people that like to use RP + TO + PG as their opening on groups. I myself use it sometimes depending on the situation, even if I usually prefer to keep TO for insta-casting a medical probe if healers are too busy to keep me alive.

[ArchangelLBC]

I also like the combination reserve powercell + plasma grenade, but If I remember correctly, effects are limited to 3 targets, and in the kephess HM fight I didn't find it worth using. I preferred using it with mortar volley which costs 3 ammo and impacts more targets, then using our lightnings and HoB to finish the packs.

 

But in pvp I saw several posts of people that like to use RP + TO + PG as their opening on groups. I myself use it sometimes depending on the situation, even if I usually prefer to keep TO for insta-casting a medical probe if healers are too busy to keep me alive.

 

 

I only ever use that combo for certain fights in PVE. In general I prefer using RP for a normal rotation to extend the life of our ammo bar without resorting to Hammer Shot.

[Boufsa]

Same thing for me

[Boufsa]

One important thing to also know for commando optimizers, some really cool black hole stuff can drop from képhess or the nightmare pilgrim. I got my chest from the pilgrim, which is much more interesting than any chest from the vendor (more power & primary stat). I also got an interesting ear piece with power in place of crit.

 

I am currently farming the War Hero relics, I am curious how high our dps can reach.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Boufsa

[Acrolepsia]

Well. Look at that:

 

The new tier of gear in HM Terror From Beyond is higher-level than Campaign. It shares the appearance, but it uses a new color palette.

 

[Eutoxis]

I'm trying to figure out the Talent tree linked in the original post. When I follow the link, it's 4/5/18. How is this a Gunnery spec?

[Boufsa]

That come from tor-head. They recently changes the order of display of the three tree specs and the points got lost. It should be fixed now.

[Eutoxis]

That come from tor-head. They recently changes the order of display of the three tree specs and the points got lost. It should be fixed now.

 

Much better, thanks.

[DenitharPurloin]

The only thing that confuses me regarding your post is your need for close to 100% accuracy. I have ~96-97% and feel that is sufficient for PvE.

 

I do try to get 100% accuracy on my dual-wielders (sentinel and gunslinger) but they are a different story as the offhand chance to hit is MUCH less than a primary weapon.

 

I also very rarely run out of ammo and use Grav Round a LOT, so that full-auto and HiB are doing the maximum amount of damage. Very rarely do I ever need to resort to a hammer shot, unless it is trash.

[ArchangelLBC]

The thing is, you lose even one tick of FA and you're gonna feel it, so yeah I like close to 100% too. Plus surge hits DR at that point so it's not like you're gaining a lot for that accuracy.

[Tom_the_Narwhal]

I'm currently sitting at 1485 dps in the ops dummy with 3 peices on campg and the rest BH modded for power/crit, once stimmed I'm sitting at 35% crit, 78.5% surge, 96% Acc and Top End mainhand damage of 1331.

 

I assume from the rotations you guys listed you are layering those skills with hammer shot inbetween, yes?

[ArchangelLBC]

I'm currently sitting at 1485 dps in the ops dummy with 3 peices on campg and the rest BH modded for power/crit, once stimmed I'm sitting at 35% crit, 78.5% surge, 96% Acc and Top End mainhand damage of 1331.

 

I assume from the rotations you guys listed you are layering those skills with hammer shot inbetween, yes?

 

Not if I can help it. You'd be surprised how long you can go without ever needing to use Hammer Shot.

Edited August 21, 2012 by ArchangelLBC

[Acrolepsia]

The only thing that confuses me regarding your post is your need for close to 100% accuracy. I have ~96-97% and feel that is sufficient for PvE.

 

I do try to get 100% accuracy on my dual-wielders (sentinel and gunslinger) but they are a different story as the offhand chance to hit is MUCH less than a primary weapon.

 

I also very rarely run out of ammo and use Grav Round a LOT, so that full-auto and HiB are doing the maximum amount of damage. Very rarely do I ever need to resort to a hammer shot, unless it is trash.

 

The thing is, you lose even one tick of FA and you're gonna feel it, so yeah I like close to 100% too. Plus surge hits DR at that point so it's not like you're gaining a lot for that accuracy.

 

I have been meaning to ask about this.

Probably a silly question but here it goes:

Does our cell - and debuff for that matter - affect hit chance? If they do, wouldn't that mean we actually need a little less accuracy?

Edited August 21, 2012 by Acrolepsia

[DenitharPurloin]

The thing is, you lose even one tick of FA and you're gonna feel it, so yeah I like close to 100% too. Plus surge hits DR at that point so it's not like you're gaining a lot for that accuracy.

 

It is my understanding (and I could be wrong) that any "ranked" ability (full auto and HiB included) is a "special ranged" attack. Any that are "unranked" and "default" are the normal ranged attacks (hammer shot and hail of bolts included).

 

This would mean that full auto starts at 100% accuracy (like Tech abilities).

Edited August 21, 2012 by DenitharPurloin

[DenitharPurloin]

I have been meaning to ask about this.

Probably a silly question but here it goes:

Does our cell - and debuff for that matter - affect hit chance? If they do, wouldn't that mean we actually need a little less accuracy?

 

They lower the targets armor rating, this means your attacks are mitigated less by armor.

 

So, you basically want 5 gravity vortexes stacked to get the full effect from your normal rotation.

 

And, don't get me wrong, I do the same as the OP as far as attacks go.

Edited August 21, 2012 by DenitharPurloin