Soooo.. GW2 is coming and you do nothing to keep the PvP-Players here?

[kyube]

All new mmos do. They never live up to individual expectations because eventually it all becomes familiar. For every player i know that says gw2 is amazing I know another that says "really dissapointed".

 

Before swtor the hype machine was in overdrive - you must have been living under a rock not to notice. The same hype is in overdrive for d3 and now people are looking at gw2 like its the new messiah of mmos.

 

Dont assume all players who enjoy pvp will automatically cream themselves over gw2, just because you do.

 

You act like the only reason people hate vanguard/d3/aion/lotro online/Conan the Barbarian/ warhammer online/rift/swtor was because they got "familiar" with the game. No, the reason why people hated these games was because every single one of them was fundamentally flawed and the developers where slow with adressing it and fixing stuff. It's hard to say if Gw2 will be different but since this is an experienced company, with several succesfull earlier products, I would like to think that they know how to handle a community.

 

And yea not every pvp'er will like gw2. The lack of gear stat progression might be a roadblock to some. I think it's awesome but people who confuse skill with their gear might not be so enthousiastic .

[islander]

Aren't ppl sick of fantasy setting?? I want to throw up everytime i see yet another elf or orc.

 

Yes. Thats why I'm giving this game every chance possible to keep me.

[Hellapain]

All new mmos do. They never live up to individual expectations because eventually it all becomes familiar. For every player i know that says gw2 is amazing I know another that says "really dissapointed".

 

Before swtor the hype machine was in overdrive - you must have been living under a rock not to notice. The same hype is in overdrive for d3 and now people are looking at gw2 like its the new messiah of mmos.

 

Dont assume all players who enjoy pvp will automatically cream themselves over gw2, just because you do.

 

I guess that may true for the hypers who expect things that are not yet in the game to be in release. However, for me I'm not basing my opinion on expectations of WvWvW but rather on what I have already experienced during BWE2 and BWE3.

 

I don't have any further expectations other than what is already available in WvWvW remains there on release and anything extra beyond that is just icing on the cake.

 

I agree hype and expectations can easily be dashed upon release but what I experienced during the BWEs is neither.

 

To be sure GW2 will not be for eveyone. There is no infinite gear grind (progression) and no raiding for gear. These devs are more focused on PvE/PvP fun and challenge with PvP additionally being more about strategy, tactics and skill than gear/stats. You can however grind for gear that has the best looks and fllashy effects if that suits you.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Hellapain

[Thirn]

All new mmos do. They never live up to individual expectations because eventually it all becomes familiar. For every player i know that says gw2 is amazing I know another that says "really dissapointed".

 

Before swtor the hype machine was in overdrive - you must have been living under a rock not to notice. The same hype is in overdrive for d3 and now people are looking at gw2 like its the new messiah of mmos.

 

Dont assume all players who enjoy pvp will automatically cream themselves over gw2, just because you do.

 

I think you are absolutely right. What is this now, the seventh or eight coming of MMO Jesus? The hype is flying every where now, but I give it til the end of September to mid October, at best, before the endless waves of "X CLASS IS OP" and "THIS GAME IS TEH SUX" threads.

[Hellapain]

I think you are absolutely right. What is this now, the seventh or eight coming of MMO Jesus? The hype is flying every where now, but I give it til the end of September to mid October, at best, before the endless waves of "X CLASS IS OP" and "THIS GAME IS TEH SUX" threads.

 

You won't have to wait that long. There are players already posting about OP and UP classes right now.

 

There are also players already saying this game SUX because it doesn't have infinite gear grind progression or raiding

or "insert personal preference" here.

 

For me I'm just talking about the WvWvW content where organization, teamwork, tactics and skills in a largescale warfare scenario will trump any build/spec. I'm talking about the massive fun that GW2 calls WvWvW PvP.

 

The game will not be for everyobdy but if you are looking for some exciting world PvP that features largescale sieging, medium scale raiding and small scale marauder style skirmishes then check it out and decide for yourself. I only wish SWTOR featured a quarter of what WvWvW offers and I would easily renew my 6-month subscription.

Edited July 27, 2012 by Hellapain

[mangarrage]

I think you are absolutely right. What is this now, the seventh or eight coming of MMO Jesus? The hype is flying every where now, but I give it til the end of September to mid October, at best, before the endless waves of "X CLASS IS OP" and "THIS GAME IS TEH SUX" threads.

 

Those thread are already out there about op, not so much whole classes but certain abilities. I think the main difference was necro as an example was a little out of control in beta 2 and they got adjustment for beta 3, that is a huge difference.

In addition op classes arent as overwhelming in wvwvw as they are when 6 out of 8 in a wz are. Sure they have tourny mode and we'll see it there for sure, but I am going to be alot more wvwvw then anything else

 

basically the life of a game or when people start complaining about what to do etc is after they are done with their story or reach max level, then spend a few weeks at max level and then hit a wall, very similar to this game. It take longer to level in that game plain and simple. There are more things to do pve and pvp wise in that game.

I'm not saying there wont be a ton of this game sucks post pop up just a little longer then this game.

[fungihoujo]

I think you are absolutely right. What is this now, the seventh or eight coming of MMO Jesus? The hype is flying every where now, but I give it til the end of September to mid October, at best, before the endless waves of "X CLASS IS OP" and "THIS GAME IS TEH SUX" threads.

 

There's one significant difference.

 

People will keep playing the game as an FotM- but in this game and most others, you are looking at hundreds of hours to level up a character and gear up- the process of which is extremely dull to people- people want to play that fotm at max efficiency like the players who were them at the start and have the top gear and are getting free wins for being the best class.

 

In GW2- if necro get nerfed and mesmer are now the best class- you roll a mesmer, and five minutes later you are top level, max geared. No hundreds of hours of boredom- just get into the game and play.

 

You have any clue how many subs would still be here if after 1.2 you could just pop out a top geared mara or PT? All those sorcs, mercs and non healer ops likely could have played and been happy with another class... but not everyone wants to reroll and relevel- especially the majority of players who have 5-10 hours a week to play, and it would take a month or longer just to hit 50- and anther half a year to get full WH.

 

 

Half a year... 5 minutes... half a year.... 5 minutes- which do you think people are more willing to put up with?

[Vaipyr]

Aren't ppl sick of fantasy setting?? I want to throw up everytime i see yet another elf or orc.

 

Actually as a PvP'er I don't really care what the setting is or character's are, UNLESS it gives me a performance advantage (IE: Smaller hitbox abusing ala Darkfall early on, etc). We could all be pink or blue puffballs using rubber dongs as weapons and as long as the gameplay is good, BALANCED and lacks a grind I'd be all for it.

[Volcanicstrad]

GW2 may have professions that get out of balance which seeing as Anet wants a pvp esport out of their game, they will keep it in check. Plus as a player, you have more control of what you do, dodge roll, each class can heal and have o-sh*t moves. If you want to just pewpew do it and if you want survivability and support do it. Fix traits different weapons and sigils do what you want without getting new gear and spending weeks to see if you like it. Gear differences in SWTOR are a giant pile of BS. You can't: compete, ask advice, complain, or even do rank wzs if you are not WH geared. Lol....

Answer to everything: "get geared it balances out" - translation "Spends months getting WH and random cue with those in Recruit gear, kick them around and then you can think everything is in balance because you are the BEST!!"

 

That doesn't exist in a game like GW2. You either outplay you opponent or they counter you and have an easier win. Good player vs good player some specs beat others in 1vs1. If you aren't bad you don't die in 5 seconds in a root stun mess of crap without the help of another class.

Also, gotta love how easy it is to try another class. So you get pwned by someone a few times in spvp....you spend 20 minutes rolling one figuring out sigils traits and weapons, a little time on the test dummy. Hop in and play, find out if that guy was a great player or if that set up fits your play style better.

 

Plus I love the people in this thread who know nothing about GW2. Wowzerz goblins and orc erywhere1!!!111

 

I never usually get very upset at losses of team random pvp until SWTOR. The fights are frustrating the loss of character control is unneeded and the glitchy laggy crap that happens is infuriating. Die...stay face down in entrance to WZ, get kicked from wz. Watch a character fall off the bridge, jump down, watch his body glitch between the ground and top level 5-10 times and watch him start walking over the goal...all unacceptable.

 

I lost some bad matches in GW2 beta weekend, but never getting mad. More of a "..dang.." reaction. Knowing you lost because of bad communication strat or lack of caring about objectives and people just fighting. It was...dare I say it...fun. Seeing the same person 4-5 times in a match 1vs1 and trading kills is awesome. All you are thinking when you engage again is..."what did he do last time?" not "crap this guy is fully geared"

[Skolops]

I still don't get the draw. Heck, I think the setting is kindof nice. I like fantasy settings and I've never actually played an MMO with one. I even think some of how side-kicking to max level works and the initial PvP setup area.

 

It's the actual PvP which I think is abysmal. 5v5? Boring and lame. PvE for extra PvP points? Absolutely, positively despise it - compllllleeeeeeettteeely destroys the spirit of PvP, and this is NOT DotA.

 

Finally, the structured PvP just looks lame in how it works out. I've watched a number of videos of it and it just doesn't look fun or look like it takes all that much skill, frankly. Admittedly the skill requirements are hard to judge from a video, so I may be wrong on that point, but as for whether it looks fun or not, I think that's pretty easy to see. It looks silly. The entire system of finishing looks especially stupid and simply distracting from what PvP combat is supposed to be.

[Vaipyr]

I still don't get the draw. Heck, I think the setting is kindof nice. I like fantasy settings and I've never actually played an MMO with one. I even think some of how side-kicking to max level works and the initial PvP setup area.

 

It's the actual PvP which I think is abysmal. 5v5? Boring and lame. PvE for extra PvP points? Absolutely, positively despise it - compllllleeeeeeettteeely destroys the spirit of PvP, and this is NOT DotA.

 

Finally, the structured PvP just looks lame in how it works out. I've watched a number of videos of it and it just doesn't look fun or look like it takes all that much skill, frankly. Admittedly the skill requirements are hard to judge from a video, so I may be wrong on that point, but as for whether it looks fun or not, I think that's pretty easy to see. It looks silly. The entire system of finishing looks especially stupid and simply distracting from what PvP combat is supposed to be.

 

zomg! 5v5 so much worse than 8v8! *Even though it was considered the top tier for arena in the game that shall not be named*

 

(5v5 is plenty fine for a structured sport-like event)

 

And how dare games reward people for playing the WHOLE game and not just part of it (and the mini-game part in MMO's tbh). I mean, rewarded for playing BOTH PvE AND PvP?! Madness!! It's... it's..... almost like something from the golden era games like UO or AC: DT and such.....

 

The looking silly is completely valid as that's simply a subjective thing. I hate abstract art and think it's absurd it's even considered art, but other people love it and praise it. Just one of those "whatever marinades your sausage" things.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Vaipyr

[Scritchy]

The entire system of finishing looks especially stupid and simply distracting from what PvP combat is supposed to be.

Which is to keep grinding out commendations to get gear so the gear can overcome lack of skill and you win.

[Skolops]

zomg! 5v5 so much worse than 8v8! *Even though it was considered the top tier for arena in the game that shall not be named*

 

(5v5 is plenty fine for a structured sport-like event)

 

I guess this is a matter of preference. Personally, I think 8 is nice. 5 is too few, in my opinion. I think it makes for combat with less going on. To me, the organization, awareness, and skill required to manage 14 people in a battle is just so much more enjoyable than what it takes for 8 or 10.

 

And how dare games reward people for playing the WHOLE game and not just part of it (and the mini-game part in MMO's tbh). I mean, rewarded for playing BOTH PvE AND PvP?! Madness!! It's... it's..... almost like something from the golden era games like UO or AC: DT and such.....

 

I don't mind doing this, and to a degree games like SWtOR do that, such as when someone uses armoring earned in PvE to make his PvP gear better. What I despise is the idea of killing some NPC or mob in a warzone rather than having the outcome entirely and without exception decided by the combat or interactions between players. If I want to compete with other players in PvE, I'll post my Ops progression somewhere. If I want to compete with people in PvP, I'll enter a warzone or arena where I combat other players.

[Skolops]

Which is to keep grinding out commendations to get gear so the gear can overcome lack of skill and you win.

 

This is a point I disagree with many on. I strongly, strongly believe that the only people who think gear is THAT much of an advantage are bad players. It is an advantage, but it's not that much that you can't accomplish anything with lower gear. That said, this is not my point.

 

My point is that there is a flow to combat, and to have to take 5 seconds after I've killed someone to go and really kill them interrupts that flow in such a way that it isn't even fun - not to mention it's like a CC in SWtOR, but even worse. The "dead" player is effectively CCed before he dies, while the living player is also "CCed" insofar as he needs to take 5 seconds out of his combat to do something that should already be done in the first place.

 

Furthermore, being sarcastic is silly. I want to like the game, actually, but from what I've seen I really cannot. Try and convince me, rather than acting insulting towards my questions/complaints.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Skolops

[Scritchy]

Furthermore, being sarcastic is silly. I want to like the game, actually, but from what I've seen I really cannot. Try and convince me, rather than acting insulting towards my questions/complaints.

That isn't acting insulting, it is pointing out the absurdity of claiming what is in SWTOR is what PVP should be. You think the flow of PVP should really be stun, knockback, root, root, snare, stun? You believe the quality of a fight should based on gear comparisons than skill (and no, recruit or partial BM have no chance against WH with augments - unless the WH wearer is AFK or an absolute idiot)?

[Skolops]

That isn't acting insulting, it is pointing out the absurdity of claiming what is in SWTOR is what PVP should be. You think the flow of PVP should really be stun, knockback, root, root, snare, stun? You believe the quality of a fight should based on gear comparisons than skill (and no, recruit or partial BM have no chance against WH with augments - unless the WH wearer is AFK or an absolute idiot)?

 

PvP should not be about 1v1s, first of all, so I really don't care if I can beat a WH guy in my recruit gear - which I have done before, by the way, as skill plays a bigger role than you may realize. What I care about is whether or not I can contribute to the team in a positive way, and with recruit gear or more I can. The gear grind is also vastly overrated, as it takes at most two weeks to get full BM gear - far, far less for the hardcore PvPers that supposedly want to jump ship for this game. You should also be starting your 50 PvP toon with anything from 1 - 2 implants/earpiece to a WH mainhand, from saving up as you level.

 

I think that CCs and CC breaks can fit into the flow of battle, yes. Sometimes they can be too much in SWtOR, but I don't think its nearly as bad as people do. That said, I think it's absolute garbage to have to kill a guy, stop, walk over to him, and then take 5 seconds to kill him again where you don't even have control of your character and it looks like something from Mortal Kombat. It's straight up idiotic.

[Volcanicstrad]

PvP should not be about 1v1s, first of all, so I really don't care if I can beat a WH guy in my recruit gear - which I have done before, by the way, as skill plays a bigger role than you may realize. What I care about is whether or not I can contribute to the team in a positive way, and with recruit gear or more I can. The gear grind is also vastly overrated, as it takes at most two weeks to get full BM gear - far, far less for the hardcore PvPers that supposedly want to jump ship for this game. You should also be starting your 50 PvP toon with anything from 1 - 2 implants/earpiece to a WH mainhand, from saving up as you level.

 

I think that CCs and CC breaks can fit into the flow of battle, yes. Sometimes they can be too much in SWtOR, but I don't think its nearly as bad as people do. That said, I think it's absolute garbage to have to kill a guy, stop, walk over to him, and then take 5 seconds to kill him again where you don't even have control of your character and it looks like something from Mortal Kombat. It's straight up idiotic.

 

Lets get something straight unless your opponent was incompetent you did not kill a Wh geared player in recruit . Face to face. Hiding and shooting while he is fighting someone else is not 1vs1. Only people who like to toot their own horns, or those who don't know the difference between crafted WH gear with mods on it from BMs gear, say that gear levels are "vastly" overated. So you can hit for 1/3+ the health pool of a WH geared player in one keystroke?... oh ok.

Also, do you even know what happens with downing a character in GW2? It's a nice change that actually involves other players and more team work than just pewpew you're dead.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Volcanicstrad

[Skolops]

Lets get something straight unless your opponent was incompetent you did not kill a Wh geared player in recruit . Face to face. Hiding and shooting while he is fighting someone else is not 1vs1. Only people who like to toot their own horns, or those who don't know the difference between crafted WH gear with mods on it from BMs gear, say that gear levels are "vastly" overated. So you can hit for 1/3+ the health pool of a WH geared player in one keystroke?... oh ok.

Also, do you even know what happens with downing a character in GW2? It's a nice change that actually involves other players and more team work than just pewpew you're dead.

 

If you think its necessary to get hit in PvP combat, then you're bad. I have fought people in WH in recruit one on one and won because they never hit me. It's a matter of skill. If you have the skill, you can limit how often your opponent can hit you with your movement. '

 

And yes, I do know what is involved in downing a player in GW2. It's stupid.

[Scritchy]

If you think its necessary to get hit in PvP combat, then you're bad. I have fought people in WH in recruit one on one and won because they never hit me. It's a matter of skill. If you have the skill, you can limit how often your opponent can hit you with your movement. '

 

And yes, I do know what is involved in downing a player in GW2. It's stupid.

So, your 'skill' is on the Gunslinger?

[Volcanicstrad]

If you think its necessary to get hit in PvP combat, then you're bad. I have fought people in WH in recruit one on one and won because they never hit me. It's a matter of skill. If you have the skill, you can limit how often your opponent can hit you with your movement. '

 

And yes, I do know what is involved in downing a player in GW2. It's stupid.

 

If they never hit you they failed you didn't win.

 

And by simply saying "it's stupid" I know you have no clue what is involved.

[IntaLou]

If they never hit you they failed you didn't win.

 

And by simply saying "it's stupid" I know you have no clue what is involved.

 

lol isn't winning by definition not losing? He didn't die, therefore he won. simply by saying they failed and he didn't win tells me you have no clue what is involved.

[Volcanicstrad]

lol isn't winning by definition not losing? He didn't die, therefore he won. simply by saying they failed and he didn't win tells me you have no clue what is involved.

 

Nice try there guy

[Skolops]

So, your 'skill' is on the Gunslinger?

 

No, I know how to strafe, to kite, to circle, to move behind people, to get them turned around... Honestly, if you are so inexperienced, bad, or ignorant that I need to explain this to you then you're not qualified to discuss what is good or bad PvP.

[Volcanicstrad]

No, I know how to strafe, to kite, to circle, to move behind people, to get them turned around... Honestly, if you are so inexperienced, bad, or ignorant that I need to explain this to you then you're not qualified to discuss what is good or bad PvP.

 

Forgot how much other characters in the way make them lose you as a target in swtor.

[kyube]

I guess this is a matter of preference. Personally, I think 8 is nice. 5 is too few, in my opinion. I think it makes for combat with less going on. To me, the organization, awareness, and skill required to manage 14 people in a battle is just so much more enjoyable than what it takes for 8 or 10.

 

The warzones are designed for 5 vs 5, 8 vs 8 already feels too "zergy". Nevertheless, normal spvp will allow you to play 8vs8 and down the road even 10 vs 10 will be possible. Tournaments will stay 5 vs 5 for the time being though.

 

What I despise is the idea of killing some NPC or mob in a warzone rather than having the outcome entirely and without exception decided by the combat or interactions between players. If I want to compete with other players in PvE, I'll post my Ops progression somewhere. If I want to compete with people in PvP, I'll enter a warzone or arena where I combat other players.

 

There's no difference in killing players to get acces over those two mobs, then its to kill people to keep exclusive access to the turrets in alderaan / bunkers in novare coast/ blowing up a door / keeping control of mid to get the ball over the other line. There's not a single warzone in swtor where killing is the primary objective, yet in gw2 you actually contribute to the teamscore by killing people. Yes, killing people actually gives you points.

 

I still don't get the draw. Heck, I think the setting is kindof nice. I like fantasy settings .

Finally, the structured PvP just looks lame in how it works out. I've watched a number of videos of it and it just doesn't look fun or look like it takes all that much skill, frankly. Admittedly the skill requirements are hard to judge from a video, so I may be wrong on that point, but as for whether it looks fun or not, I think that's pretty easy to see. It looks silly. The entire system of finishing looks especially stupid and simply distracting from what PvP combat is supposed to be.

 

You're vastly underestimating the skill present in those movies. The difference between someone who's good and someone who's decent is absolutely massive, same counts for the difference between good an decent teams. This movie

shows a lot of those aspects though you have to be familair with the mechanics to really see it. Also SuperSquad uses some tactics that might be bordering on OP so the tactic might no longer work in a month or so.

 

This movie also shows that the downed state in itself adds a new layer of strategy. If the gw2 audience will actually see this mechanic as fun ,remains to be seen. The biggest topic on the gw2 spvp forums in the last bwe weekend was a post asking to remove the downed state from spvp and lot of those reactions actually agreed with that notion. If the downed state doesn't change in the next month I might actually agree as well.