PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 other classes rejoice, victory has been granted us this day! sike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 sike! Why'd you de-capitalize everything in that quote? o.0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warultima Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 As long as the "metrics" is in place maras will never be touched. Maybe they will make obfuscate 30m range next patch you know little buff here and there thats all they do to maras, which is underpowered according to the metrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 As long as the "metrics" is in place maras will never be touched. Maybe they will make obfuscate 30m range next patch you know little buff here and there thats all they do to maras, which is underpowered according to the metrics. According to the metrics, they do the highest sustained damage, actually. But I agree with the gist of your post damage-wise; as many have said, it's the survivability and escape mechanisms that are OP. I mean, if they nerfed Shadow/Assassin survivability, you gotta assume Marauder is next. They already nerfed Force Camo from 100% damage reduction to 50%, but the ability retains the same usefulness. Putting a 90% incoming heal reduction on Undying/Guarded would be to the same tune; still allows you to win that 1v1 or get off 5 seconds of extra whatever-you-want when being focused, which is its design goal I believe, but wouldn't let the Mara/Sent have a free life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Yep. Sents/maras are by far the hardest dps to kill. Which is why they are usually focused last. Makes more sense to burn the squishies first. Highest DPS, most mobility, most survivability, most interrupts... Gee it's just so balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Highest DPS, most mobility, most survivability, most interrupts... Gee it's just so balanced. You forgot about... Most Heals! Most Aoes! Most Taunts! Most CC! Most Ranged Abilities! We really are balanced! Also what class are you? Edited July 21, 2012 by PowerReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) According to the metrics, they do the highest sustained damage, actually. But I agree with the gist of your post damage-wise; as many have said, it's the survivability and escape mechanisms that are OP. I mean, if they nerfed Shadow/Assassin survivability, you gotta assume Marauder is next. They already nerfed Force Camo from 100% damage reduction you have to speed 2 talent points for that to 50%, but the ability retains the same usefulness. Putting a 90% incoming heal reduction on Undying/Guarded would be to the same tune; still allows you to win that 1v1 or get off 5 seconds of extra whatever-you-want when being focused, which is its design goal I believe, but wouldn't let the Mara/Sent have a free life. No heal debuff that's to much considering its only useful when your low on Hp anyway, maybe a -30% movement speed no -90% heal debuff. Why are people so mad about Marauders and Sentinels when there is PT Pyro's getting 500k+ dps every match. Edited July 21, 2012 by PowerReaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criminalheretic Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 You die a lot because most of you guys (sorry real good marauders out there) are self entitled fools playing a class that has grown a PvP god complex on you, when im playing my assault trooper (which is, by definition, a lot squishier than you guys) i rarely get more than 4-5 deaths per round, which is quite ok for a dps. You guys look like rogues on WoW vanilla, everyone who played or watched World of Roguecraft knows what im talking about. WTB Mute on SWTOR, he would have HUGE material to make an epic MarauderTOR movie. You have no idea of the relative skill level of anyone posting on these forums. You can't blithely assume that every time you lose to a Marauder it is an average player using an OP class, and every time you beat a Marauder it is because YOU are awesome. I mean you can, but please don't pretend it lends any credibility to your arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 You have no idea of the relative skill level of anyone posting on these forums. You can't blithely assume that every time you lose to a Marauder it is an average player using an OP class, and every time you beat a Marauder it is because YOU are awesome. I mean you can, but please don't pretend it lends any credibility to your arguments. No, but you can make general observations of a class. Player skill is always going to skew things; one of my guildies (Vanguard DPS) can't beat another guildie (Sage DPS) because of excellent kiting. He also can't kill me as Scoundrel healer because kiting, but that's more to be expected than DPS vs DPS always losing. If you listened to the forums though, you'd think such a thing was impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindarstorm Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Personally, having played all 3 specs quite a bit, I feel that combat is balanced well, watchmen is a little bit too easy to play, and focus is just way too easy to play. Their numbers (and even their cooldowns) aren't too off-the-hook.. but their rotations are just too easy to pull off effectively. I feel the PT is similar in this regard, for the record. Their metrics are about right, but their rotations are cheesy simple. For example: if infiltration specced shadows could quickly and reliably build exit strategies the way a focus sent builds singularities, they too would feel OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 You forgot about... Most Heals! Most Aoes! Most Taunts! Most CC! Most Ranged Abilities! We really are balanced! Also what class are you? What I wrote was the truth. I'm a marauder, and since the day I rolled one 4 months ago, I magically got 5 times better at PvP compared to my old operative. Imagine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerReaper Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 What I wrote was the truth. I'm a marauder, and since the day I rolled one 4 months ago, I magically got 5 times better at PvP compared to my old operative. Imagine that. That doesn't prove anything really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
criminalheretic Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 What I wrote was the truth. I'm a marauder, and since the day I rolled one 4 months ago, I magically got 5 times better at PvP compared to my old operative. Imagine that. Yeah me too, ever since I rolled a Marauder at launch. In fact, Marauders are not only OP, but so easy to play, that every time I run into one in a WZ (there are approximately 14 per WZ according to anecdotal forum gripes) we end up just fighting forever, or until servers go down every Monday. I've missed weeks of work, it's a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daiyukie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 What I wrote was the truth. I'm a marauder, and since the day I rolled one 4 months ago, I magically got 5 times better at PvP compared to my old operative. Imagine that. That doesn't prove anything really. Nah, no correlation at all. Lmao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siorac Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Well that said...Its not been my experience on RMP, nor The Bastion servers... I dont make any claims against my opponents. I am guarentee'd the opening advantage if I want it via push..I can counter GbtF with choke which I always save for control...I just rarely ever lose to a Mara/Sent 1v1...it happens but rarely..honestly most the time they rarely get a chance to fight back....Granted Im full WH but so are many at this point. Now a Pyro/PT I might as well go afk...dont have a chance...I spent many hours dueling different PT/Pyros to learn how to counter and came out with 2 wins to their 10 kinda ratio... Mara/Sent is just not a class I have a problem with at all as a Rage Jugg....Now my Merc has zero chance aganst a Mara regardless...they could be at 10% health and there is a strong chance I will lose that fight if they see me coming. I dont put stock in that though...My Merc really cant do much against most classes really..He is BM/WH mix and pretty much feels like a complete turd of an AC anymore. Not sure why I dont sweat Mara/Sent...But I dont. Well, let's assume we're talking about pure 1v1, both participants starting from 100% with all cooldowns. Extremely rare in PvP but hey, we're talking about the 1v1 capabilities of the classes. As Rage/Focus spec you have one epic Force Sweep, you can hit him for 6k. Now you're having a bit of a problem: how to survive until the next Force Sweep? He can Pacify/Obfuscate your Master Strike/Ravage and he - assuming he's competent - can burn you down quite quickly. If Combat/Carnage specced, you have a slight chance by using Push at the right time; if Watchman/Annihilation you don't, those bleeds and burns will destroy you. And there's Guarded by the Force for the next Sweep/Smash, there's Force Camouflage to win a few moments (and to let the burns tick if he's Watchman). DPS Guardians have basically no chance 1v1 against a skilled Marauder/Sentinel. They hit harder and have much better defensive cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laforet Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Well, let's assume we're talking about pure 1v1, both participants starting from 100% with all cooldowns. Extremely rare in PvP but hey, we're talking about the 1v1 capabilities of the classes. As Rage/Focus spec you have one epic Force Sweep, you can hit him for 6k. Now you're having a bit of a problem: how to survive until the next Force Sweep? He can Pacify/Obfuscate your Master Strike/Ravage and he - assuming he's competent - can burn you down quite quickly. If Combat/Carnage specced, you have a slight chance by using Push at the right time; if Watchman/Annihilation you don't, those bleeds and burns will destroy you. And there's Guarded by the Force for the next Sweep/Smash, there's Force Camouflage to win a few moments (and to let the burns tick if he's Watchman). DPS Guardians have basically no chance 1v1 against a skilled Marauder/Sentinel. They hit harder and have much better defensive cooldowns. A marauder will never take a 6k smash, because theres a low tier talent that reduces the AoE damage they take in 30%, and every marauder worth his salt specs for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jediharrsion Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I don't, never have, never will, Sentinels/Marauders do you think we are overpowered. This is not to start a rant i am asking the Sentinel & Marauder pvpers... No i don't think Sentinels/Marauders are overpowered. the class i believe to be way overpowered is the bounty hunter classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkzehhh Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Oh i know, my sniper likes to knock em back for the CC and then spam out the crits on em. It is great fun. I see sages and other squishy players trying to fight them melee style and I'm like ***. You gotta fight them on your own terms not theirs. I hate to say it but it really is a matter of L2P for all of these nerf criers. This. It's clearly L2P issue's, i destroy 'ALL' mara/sents i come up against on my assasin, Fact. Non-tank spec i may add, so much QQlazors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Well, let's assume we're talking about pure 1v1, both participants starting from 100% with all cooldowns. Extremely rare in PvP but hey, we're talking about the 1v1 capabilities of the classes. As Rage/Focus spec you have one epic Force Sweep, you can hit him for 6k. Now you're having a bit of a problem: how to survive until the next Force Sweep? He can Pacify/Obfuscate your Master Strike/Ravage and he - assuming he's competent - can burn you down quite quickly. If Combat/Carnage specced, you have a slight chance by using Push at the right time; if Watchman/Annihilation you don't, those bleeds and burns will destroy you. And there's Guarded by the Force for the next Sweep/Smash, there's Force Camouflage to win a few moments (and to let the burns tick if he's Watchman). DPS Guardians have basically no chance 1v1 against a skilled Marauder/Sentinel. They hit harder and have much better defensive cooldowns. Alright this has gone off topic regardless....I stated previously in this thread, or the other similar thread that Mara/Sent is a little high on the balance scale due to thier Defensive CD's. Against most ranged classes Mara/Sent is a hard counter...Hard counters are not intended designs "hard Counter" is a phrase used to describe what happens when bad designs go live. Now about the 1v1 Jugg Mara/Sent thing...Mara/Sent looks better on paper because of their defensive CD's I admit. I also said occasionally a Mara/Sent takes me out..But its not an easy win for them. On my Merc the only Mara I can beat is if I steal a KB on one seconds from death. The "arguement" From your end illistrates counters the Mara/sent have against Jugg...You also only mention Smash/Sweep and ravage....Smash is our hardest hitter...not our only hard hitter...Ravage hits decent but honetly If you blow a heavy defensive CD on it.....You did exactly what I wanted you to do! It can be debated indefinately...I dont care either way...My day to day encounters show a different story then the "perfect scenario" your describing....In WZ's and Duels. If you take someones momentum away, and keep the oponenet on the Defense...they are going down...Trick is having a class with the abilities to achieve that pressure...Some in this game dont have them...Jugg does IMO...Please recognize emphasis on opinion!! Jedi Mind Tricks only work in the movies...you wont convince me to believe any different then what I experience in the game...So our conversation is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtblanks Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 sentinels/marauders aren't OP. most of the other ACs and specs are just poorly designed in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soljin Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 No i don't think Sentinels/Marauders are overpowered. the class i believe to be way overpowered is the bounty hunter classes Be more specific...Im pretty sure your not talking about Mercs....Wild guess at Pyro Power Tech on this one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelLBC Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Why are people so mad about Marauders and Sentinels when there is PT Pyro's getting 500k+ dps every match. Because if I happen to get the jump on a Pyro PT I might actually win, and when they realize it they can't just Force Camo out of it, or Gbtf and get healed to full. Anyway, as I said in another thread. Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Those who play FOTM OP classes shouldn't cry nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Individual Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think that only 1 change should be made to us. And that is to make GBTF/UR require no health cost to activate, but allow for no healing received for the duration. With that change I would say we are not overpowered because it would take away 1 of our get out of jail free cards. GBTF/UR are easy to counter in a 1 on 1 situation, but with a healer with us it essentially gives us a second life. edit: this could potentially be changed to not being able to receive healing from outside sources so that the dots would still heal. However, I'm not certain if medpacks should be allowed during it. Would love to hear others thoughts on this. Nooooo way. The cost to healt is fine as it is. It's ridiculous people even have this ability at all. I can work around it as it is now, but it should be changed to help you guys be more powerful.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Individual Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) I don't, never have, never will, Sentinels/Marauders do you think we are overpowered. This is not to start a rant i am asking the Sentinel & Marauder pvpers... I think you guys are op. If you play against a person who actually knows how to play the class, they'll kill you in about 5 secs flat. That's keeping in mind they're full war hero. I don't like seeing nerfs, I just think Bioware should beef up the other DPS classes that need it. Also, you guys have heaps of survivability compared to most of the other DPS classes. The mura/sent class is pretty much the only class in this game that can do every ability that designed in this game.... Stealth..... Check Aoe Stun..... Check Leap..... Check Roots.... Check I win Shield.... Check Another Shield.... Check Speed Boost..... Check Snares..... Check Never having to run out of energy, or force..... Check Never having to worry about overheating..... Check If you were playing this class and had a picket healer, you could keep going nonstop. The other DPS classes can't do that as they require a source of enery or requries managment of heat. Only thing you lack is what, a pull ability? On top of everything else. you guys get to mod both your main hand, and off hand. Half the other classes can't do that either. Not that that's a big deal, but everything you guys have all adds up. Edited July 22, 2012 by Individual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerain Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think that only 1 change should be made to us. And that is to make GBTF/UR require no health cost to activate, but allow for no healing received for the duration. With that change I would say we are not overpowered because it would take away 1 of our get out of jail free cards. GBTF/UR are easy to counter in a 1 on 1 situation, but with a healer with us it essentially gives us a second life. edit: this could potentially be changed to not being able to receive healing from outside sources so that the dots would still heal. However, I'm not certain if medpacks should be allowed during it. Would love to hear others thoughts on this. You know how op'ed it'd be for a sent/mara to get 5 seconds of 99% damage reduction at the start of a fight? Yeah you think it's bad now. I'd love to see the QQ from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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