vsalcedo Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 If your a healer... just throw a couple of heals around before the match... this way we can find you... thanks! healers win WZ and I like winning... Or you can mark em... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Most healers that I've guarded when solo queuing don't even realize it. They just think they're great at surviving, as my health slowly drops while they're attacked - I get literally zero heals and die, because they heal themselves. Edited July 18, 2012 by vimm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackeyla Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I will heal the most damaged teammember placing priority on Juggs/Maras/Pyros. So while you may not get a dedicated healer from me when you guard me, I'm keeping the rest of the team alive and keeping myself alive by being highly mobile. I personally don't single target heal the person with the least health first automatically. I heal myself, I heal my guard, I heal the other healers, I heal people I like, and then I heal people who aren't tards. I throw my aoe heal out there into the big crowds to help the biggest number of people with the least ammount of effort on my part. I would love to have a guard on my *** nonstop, but they have other things to pay attention to as well like objectives, and they should also get to have some fun too, I sure as hell wouldn't want to guard me. Playing my tank, I often have to guess who to guard when nobody is forthcoming with their healer role. The few times I've tried to mark myself in pugs I've gotten nothing but complaints because apparently it "confuses" people and they kept feeling the need to run at me and attack me...awesome. It would be cool if the person being guarded and the person guarding had an icon above their heads or something to make it easier for them to find eachother. Often, I hear great healing and get no votes even though I am by far the number one in protection. In pugs, I tell the healer "I vote you." Sometimes I get votes, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I get sorry I'm voting for my pal. Guarding does seem to be a pretty thankless job. If I'm being guarded in a PuG WZ, I'll usually vote for my guard if he's halfway decent BUT I won't vote for them if they get a butt-ton of medals...as good tanks can do pretty easily since they're probably going to get lots of votes because of it...and really a vote is like one comm...it's more of a nod to the person who helped you more than anything else; it's not like it makes a big difference in the long grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaar Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I *used* to guard healers on my shadow, but I realised that 99% of them just use me as a health battery and don't actually heal me, so I never, never, guard healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 If your a healer... just throw a couple of heals around before the match... this way we can find you... thanks! healers win WZ and I like winning... Healers win warzones, sure, but they're no more important than your DPS or tanks - they're necessary for the win as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Most healers that I've guarded when solo queuing don't even realize it. They just think they're great at surviving, as my health slowly drops while they're attacked - I get literally zero heals and die, because they heal themselves. Forever cloning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Forever cloning. Like The Sixth Day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistols Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) And yeah, guard is not strictly for heals (altho I throw it on them when they're focused), but a tank shld be rotating that guard as needed, and letting the healer(s) know beforehand. In a pug situation I'll try to convey this, but more often than not, I'm part of a group full of downs and I will simply put my helmet on and hope for the best. Also, use taunts please. Edited July 18, 2012 by Pistols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissentus Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 My tank is hybrid immortal/vengeance and I switch stances depending on situation. I will not sit in tank stance and protect one healer, I move all over the place and help anyone that is in trouble, slow their entire team, pressure their healers because I have so many ways to interrupt them and I'll often push targets to our team to focus them down, as well as watching objectives as first priority. The only time I am always in tank stance, is when I have a guildie healer that I know and trust will not let me die from incoming damage. Pugs are a crap shoot and you never know what you are getting into. I'm not going to sacrifice myself for someone who is terrible, unless it's someone trying to run a huttball or I am delaying opponents from an objective. If we are both going down fast, I will drop my guard off you, because without guard I can pop cooldowns and medpacks and hold out longer while respawns return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 My tank is hybrid immortal/vengeance and I switch stances depending on situation. I will not sit in tank stance and protect one healer, I move all over the place and help anyone that is in trouble, slow their entire team, pressure their healers because I have so many ways to interrupt them and I'll often push targets to our team to focus them down, as well as watching objectives as first priority. The only time I am always in tank stance, is when I have a guildie healer that I know and trust will not let me die from incoming damage. Pugs are a crap shoot and you never know what you are getting into. I'm not going to sacrifice myself for someone who is terrible, unless it's someone trying to run a huttball or I am delaying opponents from an objective. If we are both going down fast, I will drop my guard off you, because without guard I can pop cooldowns and medpacks and hold out longer while respawns return. Can you explain your sig? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 The only reason I don't guard a healer is because some other tank puts guard on you and they go left and you go right. Some people are stupid with guard; they put it on and then don't follow the healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Or you can mark em... That's another lost art in the Empire's forces. Marking opposing healers. I do it about 60-70% of the time (before anyone else), observing it from a distance while healing others. Then there are those occasions where I mark him, and still no one focuses on him. I kinda thought crosshairs would be a universal dead giveaway to "go kill that guy first" but alas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Most healers that I've guarded when solo queuing don't even realize it. They just think they're great at surviving, as my health slowly drops while they're attacked - I get literally zero heals and die, because they heal themselves. Part of the problem is the fact that the guard logo doesn't tell you who's doing it. I have no idea - out in the field/combat who's guarding me 'out of the blue'. This assumes there's no one specifically 'assigned' to guard me. Bioware should give you a notification in the chat console imho. Or at least let me mouseover the guard logo and tell me there. I can figure out who does it pre-match start by looking at the feet of folks, but that's about it. Edited July 18, 2012 by islander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Part of the problem is the fact that the guard logo doesn't tell you who's doing it. I have no idea - out in the field/combat who's guarding me 'out of the blue'. This assumes there's no one specifically 'assigned' to guard me. Bioware should give you a notification in the chat console imho. Or at least let me mouseover the guard logo and tell me there. I can figure out who does it pre-match start by looking at the feet of folks, but that's about it. Simple fix let us have macro. I can macro who I gaurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) Healers win warzones, sure, but they're no more important than your DPS or tanks - they're necessary for the win as well. I actually think good DPS and low heals will beat good heals and bad DPS most of the time (given equal skill). Most WZ's are all about achieveing objectives in a timely manner. If you don't believe me, try winning a warzone with 4 healers in your group. Unless you run across a group of pug bads...its not going to happen unless its huttball. from my own experiences currently, I find the most successful groups I have are ones with only one primary heal spec and myself as a second. If we both do our jobs well, and the DPS is competent, we generally win or are damn competitive. Edited July 18, 2012 by islander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissentus Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Can you explain your sig? lol. It's from an epic thread that started in beta. The quote is from that person, and I don't think anyone ever figured out what he was asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejected Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Guard = death sentence for a tank. 'Nough said. I'll taunt/peel all you want, but unless you say these exact words "Hey Logic'al, stick guard and taunt on me and I'll make sure we both stay alive" You can deal with full damage. edit: I will probably throw guard on you for a few seconds in between taunts to reduce damage, but it wont stay there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACTroyan Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I play both a healer and a tank and in my opinion Guard is not that useful in regular warzones, unless the healer is consistently keeping probes or a static barrier up on both of us, or the enemy is actually good at focusing targets (kinda rare in regular warzones). Due to the lack of aoe healing in this game it just makes the healer have to switch targets a lot to keep us both up, which while it's their job adds more stress if we are in a large battle already. I still peel and taunt and throw guards on friendlies about to die to give the healer time to save them etc... just a 100% guard up time on healer is not worth it unless i know the healer and his/her capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tragamite Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Seriously... What is with you tanks not guarding the healer, or even worse let some lolmarauder rip me a new one because you were busy trying to kill the opposing player in heavy armor that is being guarded :| To which Tanks are you refering? Because someone is a Jugg/Guardian, PT/VG or Assassin/Shadow does not mean they are a tank! When I first started my Jugg I intended him to be DPS but do to raids I switched to Tank and always put guard on someone! I prefer it to be a healer but often times there are no healers for Imperials! When I enter a match I look at peoples gear for Ops and Sorcs to see who is likely a healer. I ask who is or I look at a Mercs Cylinder to see if they are heals or DPS. The same can be done by healers! ALL tanks can be identified without even checking gear. Jugg/Guadians and Assissin/Shadows have a tanking stance, PT/VG have a tanking Cylinder. Take note of who is in your group what stance they are using and ask for guard if they are in tank stance. Many of these "Tanks" are hybrids more geared for DPS then protection so them putting guard on you would hurt them more then its worth! But if it saves you the healer so you can give them more heals why would they say no? Most people see a Jugg and think he is a Tank and then wonder why he's not throwing guard up when he is in a DPS stance and deals 300k+ damage in the WZ! Most "True Tanks" are lucky to score 100k+ in most WZ but will have at least 100k+ Protection! These are the guys healers want to team up with cause they will not leave you to get slaughtered by a marauder or whatever as they try to make a kill. As a "True Tank" I never try to kill anyone! Not to say I don't try and make kills I just don't go out of my way to kill nor do I chase kills! My job is to taunt and push everyone around so the only one they try to kill is ME! I want to be attacked by every member of the opposing team that gives my team the advantage to pick targets and focus down each one! So while I can understand your frustration as I have a Merc healer who is soggy paper without a tank oddly enough. But understand who IS and IS NOT a tank not just base it off of AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islander Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Honestly, I'd be ecstatic just to get consistent peels from alert DPSers. I can even help DPS them down a bit. I just don't have the offensive output to actually solo any competent DPSer in a warzone environment specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Order-Sixty-Six Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I'll tell you just like I told the garbage healer whining about me not guarding him yesterday. When I'm guarding you, that damage you're not receiving doesn't just vanish into thin air contrary to popular belief - it goes to me. If you're not healing me while I'm tanking the mobs that aren't attacking you, I'm not going to commit suicide by guarding you when I can live just as long without doing so. If you're in recruit, there's no chance in hell I'm guarding you either because they're just going to focus you in order to break through my defense quicker. Then I die because you keep getting hit hard and healing yourself up, you're the only one left there, and you die seconds later. In huttball the only person that should be guarded is the ball carrier unless you have more than two tanks (one should be holding the ball). So if you're in huttball - fat chance you're getting gaurded as a healer. What you should be doing is rescuing the ball carrier if you're a sage - or healing the ball carrier while cc'ing mobs around him as a scoundrel. A good tank doesn't always guard healers, and this seems to be the standard healers judge tanks by. If I see a tank guarding a squishy sage - I'm still going to focus the sage because I'll hit just about as often before, just distributed between two people instead of one, making that tank much easier to kill than before. Edited July 18, 2012 by Order-Sixty-Six Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltydogg Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Seriously... What is with you tanks not guarding the healer, or even worse let some lolmarauder rip me a new one because you were busy trying to kill the opposing player in heavy armor that is being guarded :| Well I feel its not a tanks job to babysit a healer just because one dps can burst them down. Maybe if the guard range was increased to make it more viable to guard a healer then it would actually work. Until that time get use to running without a guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saltydogg Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I'll tell you just like I told the garbage healer whining about me not guarding him yesterday. When I'm guarding you, that damage you're not receiving doesn't just vanish into thin air contrary to popular belief - it goes to me. If you're not healing me while I'm tanking the mobs that aren't attacking you, I'm not going to commit suicide by guarding you when I can live just as long without doing so. If you're in recruit, there's no chance in hell I'm guarding you either because they're just going to focus you in order to break through my defense quicker. Then I die because you keep getting hit hard and healing yourself up, you're the only one left there, and you die seconds later. In huttball the only person that should be guarded is the ball carrier unless you have more than two tanks (one should be holding the ball). So if you're in huttball - fat chance you're getting gaurded as a healer. What you should be doing is rescuing the ball carrier if you're a sage - or healing the ball carrier while cc'ing mobs around him as a scoundrel. A good tank doesn't always guard healers, and this seems to be the standard healers judge tanks by. If I see a tank guarding a squishy sage - I'm still going to focus the sage because I'll hit just about as often before, just distributed between two people instead of one, making that tank much easier to kill than before. My feelings are to guard a dps, you can do so much more in PVP with a DPS guarded. Specific healing classes have mobility issues right now and its a total waste to guard a Commando Medic. Sage has a ton of ways to escape dps and to guard a Ops healer shouldnt even need a guard with all their cc and healing mobility. Guard does not work well in PVP unless you guard swap but even then you still need a healer tossing you hots and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I pop my guard onto good players who make the most of it. That is usually not the healer in PUG games. Like someone said guard is a two way deal. If we guard you and get killed all the time without recieving any heals we probably won't do it a second time. Also not only the tank has to pay attention to where the healer is, but the healer has to position himself smartly as well. Guard is a teamwork ability that requires the healer and the tank to work together. That is seldom the case in PUG games. Also it is not static, good tanks switch guards according to the situation actively. Edited July 18, 2012 by Twor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oredith Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 only the really bad tanks guard just the healers. it would be like a tank asking you "why don't you only heal me" guard is just like healing. you put it on the person that's taking damage. when i was playing as a shieldtech, i moved my guard around based upon who's getting trained on. if you're not getting reamed, don't expect a guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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