Jump to content

PvP build for veng jug whats urs?

beyondkilling

By beyondkilling
in Guardian / Juggernaut

 Share

Recommended Posts

MephiX

MephiX

Posted
Posted
I run 18/23 hybrid veng in soresu. Currently trying a variant WITHOUT free chilling scream. Experimentation is good. I respec 1-2 times a week.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101rzGzuzMZfzrMrhzzM.1

 

Being able to pick up savagery in the hybrid is what makes it a great choice. Choosing sonic barrier over it is just laughable.

 

You not picking up the free chilling scream either doesn't surprise me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
wadecounty

wadecounty

Posted
Posted (edited)

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/juggernaut#22-7kddie8e1f-22

 

The 1 big debate I'm having with myself is whether to grab Decimate, or put the full 2 points into Sundering Throw and Improved Sundering Assault. My logic is this, in PvP the returns on sundering an opponents armor are negligible at best, since most fights end so quickly and the majority of an opponents mitigation comes through CC and defensive cooldowns anyways (CC which can cause your sunders to wear off). However, Smash can still deliver nice AOE damage in crowded situations (happen quite often in warzones) and is a great tool for stopping caps, meaning having the lower cd is a huge benefit.

 

The way I play my Juggernaut, I'm constantly weaving in and out of combat via charge and intercede, so I'm not relying on 100% uptime with Sunder Armor (I'm not a Marauder, I don't want to be in my enemy's face 100% of the time, and if I tried to facetank a Mara I would lose if he knew what he was doing).

 

Also, no free Chilling Scream because I'm playing in Shien, so I have more than enough rage at all times to throw it out there when needed. It lasts 9 seconds and is an AOE, you don't have to hit it more than once typically. The only situation you'd ever need to spam Chilling Scream is in the hallways on Voidstar, and you can always pop an Enrage for when that comes up.

 

The only time I think free Chiling Scream is a necessity is if you run in Soresu. I do still occasionally swap over to Soresu in all out defense situations and to guard a healer, but I'm primarily in Shien, so I'm not going to sacrifice skillpoints towards DPS to spam a slow when I already have more than enough rage to use it when I need it.

 

I know a lot feel the hybrid is the only effective role for a Juggernaut in PvP, but full Vengeance is still extremely viable, you won't kill quite as efficiently as a Marauder/Sentinel but you will move more easily around the battlefield, and as the skill states, at times you can be more Unstoppable. I can kill Operative and Scoundrel healers efficiently with a full Vengeance Juggernaut, I cannot do so with a hybrid running in Soresu.

Edited by wadecounty
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Veeius

Veeius

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'd like to go veng, but I just don't see where veng has good burst. It all seems like nice, smooth, sustained damage - the damage is good, don't get me wrong. I just don't see how you can consistently make a healer scrabble b/c someone is at 60% health the way rage will.

 

Edited to clarify: I'm not bashing veng for pvp. It just seems to me that it's lacking a burst mechanic to scare a healer into reacting badly. If someone could show me otherwise, I'd be happy to play with veng - though videos don't really do that - they tend to go "zomg I got 3 back to back 3k crits" - ok, that's nice, except you crowing about that implies that that's not something you often see. I'm bad - I admit that, but I can scare a healer by routinely getting 4.5 to 5k smashes with a 2.5 to 3k scream 1 gcd later. They see that enough and they try really hard to keep everyone over 60% health, which inevitably means they will fail at doing so on themselves.

Edited by Veeius
clarification
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Khalhazar

Khalhazar

Posted
Posted (edited)
Being able to pick up savagery in the hybrid is what makes it a great choice. Choosing sonic barrier over it is just laughable. You not picking up the free chilling scream either doesn't surprise me.

 

Why don't we have a discussion about the relative value of these talents, instead of just posturing? My post said I was experimenting, not that I believed my build was the best. (And why not just post yours too?)

 

The tactical value of free CS is obvious, both 1-1 and in groups. But I don't use it as much as I should. I am seeing how much I lose by running without it, while looking for opportunities to use it. As for SB instead of Savagery, Savagery may very well be better in general --- but that's what experimentation is for. I used to have Savagery, and noticed a substantial drop in deaths with SB instead. With better gear, I might switch back. But I am not convinced that Savagery is better for me *at the moment*.

 

One day soon I will try out full DPS in shien. It was too frustrating for me in recruit gear, but I'm not wearing that anymore!

Edited by Khalhazar
Link to comment
Share on other sites
froops

froops

Posted
Posted
I'd like to go veng, but I just don't see where veng has good burst. It all seems like nice, smooth, sustained damage - the damage is good, don't get me wrong. I just don't see how you can consistently make a healer scrabble b/c someone is at 60% health the way rage will.

 

Edited to clarify: I'm not bashing veng for pvp. It just seems to me that it's lacking a burst mechanic to scare a healer into reacting badly. If someone could show me otherwise, I'd be happy to play with veng - though videos don't really do that - they tend to go "zomg I got 3 back to back 3k crits" - ok, that's nice, except you crowing about that implies that that's not something you often see. I'm bad - I admit that, but I can scare a healer by routinely getting 4.5 to 5k smashes with a 2.5 to 3k scream 1 gcd later. They see that enough and they try really hard to keep everyone over 60% health, which inevitably means they will fail at doing so on themselves.

 

I run a full vengeance spec at the moment for PvP and PvE. Below is my spec.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZfzrRrhddGkZMM.1

 

The burst from vengeance isn't bad, it's just not going to be as high as rage.

 

For maximum damage in the shortest period, after saber throw and charge, I'll shatter, impale, force scream (almost guaranteed crit) and then ravage. By that time, shatter and impale are usually back up and I can keep hitting them hard. With crit at about 35%, if I get that rotation off, most softer targets would be looking at about 11-12k damage. After taking all of that, they're usually within vicious throw range. If not, then just force choke and the bleeds will bring them into vicious throw range. Also, a near guaranteed vicious throw is a godsend for trying to finish off pesky healers or people with healers.

 

I might not be hitting them for the 5k crits but I can do consistent high damage to bring down an enemy's hp and it more than worries a healer when I'm focused on them.

 

I have tried rage as well as a hybrid veng/rage build but I think I prefer the playstyle of vengeance. I felt that with rage, I would hit them hard with that first smash crit, but after that I'd run around tickling them, waiting until my next smash was off cooldown.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
froops

froops

Posted
Posted (edited)
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1010MZcGMRMuzdGRZGR.1

 

It hasn't let me down so far and I am usually in the 1 to 3 in damage at the end of a pvp round.

 

You've gone full Vengeance but haven't picked up Savagery? If you haven't already tried, I would highly highly highly recommend dropping some points in other talents and picking that up instead.

 

Drop the 1 point in Payback and 1 point in Malice at least and put them into Savagery.

 

+60% chance to crit on Force Scream and Vicous Throw > +2% Force critical chance

 

Also, keep in mind that Unyielding works in both large group PvP and 1v1 situations whereas Deadly Reprisal only really works when you're already getting caned by AoE.

Edited by froops
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AllanGand

AllanGand

Posted
Posted (edited)

vengeance is awesome to put pressure on healers people just need to learn to take advantage of the set bonus and the talents in vengeance.

 

Our best skill is ravage, your opener as vengeance in pvp should always be saber throw > force jump > ravage.

After force jump you will have the 4 seconds of CC immunity, 10% increased damage for 5 seconds, and the enemy will be rooted for 3 seconds. I've had ravages that have done 9k damage total on sorcs from that opener.

 

After that you can go ahead and shatter scream (if ravage cd reset) force push jump > ravage > impale > vicious throw.

Edited by AllanGand
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coldserpent

coldserpent

Posted
Posted
2-26-13

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#1010MZcrrorhdzMzZGR0rz.1

 

Tried a lot of builds, this one does what I like to do best which is kill sages.

 

No points in Stagger, and two in Accuracy? I'd take that extra second of rooting a sage so that you can fire off a Ravage without having to worry of a knockback or crowd control(since you have Unstoppable as a Vengeance spec Juggernaut)

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MZfMRRrhddbZGR0Mz.1

 

This build gives not only the Obliterate, but a chance of Impale refreshing your Ravage so that you can hop to someone else and hit them with the same Force Leap/Ravage combo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scinald

Scinald

Posted
Posted
No points in Stagger, and two in Accuracy? I'd take that extra second of rooting a sage so that you can fire off a Ravage without having to worry of a knockback or crowd control(since you have Unstoppable as a Vengeance spec Juggernaut)

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MZfMRRrhddbZGR0Mz.1

 

This build gives not only the Obliterate, but a chance of Impale refreshing your Ravage so that you can hop to someone else and hit them with the same Force Leap/Ravage combo.

 

Like I said, this one works best for me. It's a toss up between the accuracy and the extra second of stagger. I chose accuracy to use on higher defense targets since the extra second of root is "meh". The extra vicious slash and obliterate damage comes in handy as does the armor debuffs. Free force scream doesn't matter for me since I have yet to experience any real rage problems. Anyway...the builds are nearly the same except for some style differences. As usual, ymmv.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Xtrema

Xtrema

Posted
Posted
I'd like to go veng, but I just don't see where veng has good burst. It all seems like nice, smooth, sustained damage - the damage is good, don't get me wrong. I just don't see how you can consistently make a healer scrabble b/c someone is at 60% health the way rage will.

 

Edited to clarify: I'm not bashing veng for pvp. It just seems to me that it's lacking a burst mechanic to scare a healer into reacting badly. If someone could show me otherwise, I'd be happy to play with veng - though videos don't really do that - they tend to go "zomg I got 3 back to back 3k crits" - ok, that's nice, except you crowing about that implies that that's not something you often see. I'm bad - I admit that, but I can scare a healer by routinely getting 4.5 to 5k smashes with a 2.5 to 3k scream 1 gcd later. They see that enough and they try really hard to keep everyone over 60% health, which inevitably means they will fail at doing so on themselves.

 

I used to play full rage with optimized gear and I have to say post 1.2 it's much harder to pressure healers and win 1v1 fights. Since switching to Veng I've been able to pressure my server's best healers better than I ever could as rage - those 3 extra seconds is just an eternity in PvP, and we don't have enough filler abilities to cover the gap.

 

Veng can be pretty damn bursty, the numbers are definitely not as big as rage but don't underestimate it, plenty of good veng players streaming around you should check them out sometime. Finisher is much stronger too, my vicious throw crits regularly from 4-6k (geared players included). Rage is still good, but with marauders doing it so much better now we've become a poor man's rage build unfortunately. With the upcoming relic nerf rage is taking another hit, at least give veng a try like I did, geared try btw, not just respec in rage gear. I didn't understand either until I tried :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Vodrin

Vodrin

Posted
Posted

I'd definitely agree with the comments above. Burst is not quite as heavy as rage, but is still quite good (and actually a little better than my watchman sentinel). And sustained damage is superior to rage due to easier rage management and better durability.

 

Incidentally, this is the build I run with now: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrZsMrRrhbdGkZM.1

 

I used to argue against the bleeds, but taking them has increased my damage and kills in warzones. I like the free snare because I still run into rare occasions where I am short on rage during long fights, and keeping targets permasnared is a great way to combat kiters, and also to allow me to move away and leap back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...