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F2P up to Level 15.


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Just a couple of thoughts:-

 

Curious to see if there is any way they can use the f2p 1-15 guys to pad their numbers for next investor report.

 

At the moment there are thousands of people who have paid and are not bothering to play

 

How many regular MMO players that were interested in SWTOR do you think did'nt buy this game and try it already?

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WoW always had free trials, but 7 day trials have been going away for unlimited free trials to a low level cap for quite some time in the industry. Why would TOR want to offer trials that are inferior to their competitors? There is obviously marketing data that shows that these kinds of trials transit into subs or no one would offer them.

 

That is how I started, I wasn't going to buy a game sight unseen so I had not considered SWTOR as a possible game. A friend sent me the 7 day trial and on Day 6 I bought that game and am happy to sub.

 

The fact that it is less than a year since SWTOR launched and they are doing this means nothing, more and more games in the market offer free trials (D3 does and they will be available for anyone 30 days after launch), to compete SWTOR needs to offer the same to potential new players.

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Thi sgame is doing fine we as players dont know diddly there are many players who are paying and just not playing 24/7 i jump on and quest maybe 2 or 3 hours in a week so do a ton of other players i know. Just because there not 10s of thousands of people online doesnt mean bioware isnt earning the money they need.
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You see, the funny thing is, people give feedback, they support the game, and hundreds of loyal fans will rush to the defense of TOR despite what happens.

 

The game is still new, yes, but that is no excuse for the improvements that need to be made. We're getting a new race (that is, another basic humanoid shape with a unique head design) and some new areas to run around in, but we're also losing a lot of ground with people leaving. OPs become harder to complete when guilds lose members, and the population is spread quite thin as it stands now.

 

The F2P model will bring in a few players, sure. You'll have a lot of twinked out characters sitting at 15 for PvP, most likely -- which is all well and good, but that can only hold one's interest for so long, and not everyone is going to upgrade to a full subscription.

 

If a player wants a feature that has become available in... say... WoW... the good folks here in the forum drop down on that individual with a cascade of defenses, often including such phrases as "WOW HAS BEEN AROUND FOR YEARS! GIVE THEM SOME TIME!"

 

However, at what point do we forgive the developers for initially overlooking these features and having to patch them in? When do we stop being patient and start asking "What took so long?" Do we continue to sit idly by, handing over our subscription fee, waiting for the day when the community magically triples in size?

 

$15/month + $60 for game purchase = $150 investment into 5-6 MONTHS of gaming. If this is too much of an investment for you over half a year of gaming than I propose that maybe a subscription model game isn't the right move for you.

 

Have a little perspective. Obviously the devs are sititng over there at BW HQ and saying, "How can we make more people leave our game so that we make less money." If you believe this, or any other variation of thought process, than you are probably stupid.

 

Pay and wait for improvements, or leave. But either way, please stop ruining the experience for the rest of us.

Edited by Shaabyy
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$15/month + $60 for game purchase = $150 investment into 5-6 MONTHS of gaming. If this is too much of an investment for you over half a year of gaming than I propose that maybe a subscription model game isn't the right move for you.

 

Have a little perspective. Obviously the devs are sititng over there at BW HQ and saying, "How can we make more people leave our game so that we make less money." If you believe this, or any other variation of thought process, than you are probably stupid.

 

Pay and wait for improvements, or leave. But either way, please stop ruining the experience for the rest of us.

 

How does asking for the game to be improved at all ruin your experience? :rolleyes:

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How does asking for the game to be improved at all ruin your experience? :rolleyes:

 

Haters hoot about how their threads are just meant to improve the game. :rolleyes: They are usually worded in such a way to be toxic and generally just bad mouth devs for what they consider bad design :confused: They claim to represent the entire community :mad: You can be critical without being a jackwad :o

 

TIL Smileys = punctuation

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How does asking for the game to be improved at all ruin your experience? :rolleyes:

 

It's like going to see a comedian and some idiot behind you is heckling the comedian the whole night. It just adds an air of negativity to things that is unnecesary. ESPECIALLY knowing that the problems have all been addressed and are being worked on.

 

People ask for more content, so they announce a level cap increase and a batch of new content. And what do people do? The complain about things again.

 

People like that, and I'm sorry if you are one of them, are a disease and directly NEGATIVELY effect the already wounded community.

 

We know merges are coming. We know that new content is coming. We know that they are adding rated WZ's. Either shut up and wait for them, or leave. Griping endlessly about how its taking to long adds NOTHING worth reading/hearing to the conversations.

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Haters hoot about how their threads are just meant to improve the game. :rolleyes: They are usually worded in such a way to be toxic and generally just bad mouth devs for what they consider bad design :confused: They claim to represent the entire community :mad: You can be critical without being a jackwad :o

 

TIL Smileys = punctuation

 

Really? :cool: So what do you say to the very constructive threads that are still derailed and hijacked by the anit-haters? ;) I guess those were really just hate posts in disguise? :eek: Maybe you can explain that to me? :o

Edited by Dezzi
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It's like going to see a comedian and some idiot behind you is heckling the comedian the whole night. It just adds an air of negativity to things that is unnecesary. ESPECIALLY knowing that the problems have all been addressed and are being worked on.

 

People ask for more content, so they announce a level cap increase and a batch of new content. And what do people do? The complain about things again.

 

People like that, and I'm sorry if you are one of them, are a disease and directly NEGATIVELY effect the already wounded community.

 

We know merges are coming. We know that new content is coming. We know that they are adding rated WZ's. Either shut up and wait for them, or leave. Griping endlessly about how its taking to long adds NOTHING worth reading/hearing to the conversations.

 

Actually it adds immediacy, as in "We need this now because a portion of us are growing impatient." If the negativity on the forums bothers you so much, you have every ability to avoid them. The choice is yours to come to the forum and take part in the back-and-forth dialogue between the developers and players.

 

So I guess that makes you the guy griping about the heckler for the whole show--the one who makes a bad situation worse because he can't control himself enough to not let it bother him.

Edited by Dezzi
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Really? :cool: So what do you say to the very constructive threads that are still derailed and hijacked by the anit-haters? ;) I guess those were really just hate posts in disguise? :eek: Maybe you can explain that too me? :o

 

Is it a constructive thread that proposes a new or innovative idea? :confused:

 

Or is another "Dead Bioware, When oh when will you see?!" titled thread that says something like:

 

"We can not possibly wait until Summer! We know you have addressed the population problem, but we simply need it now. So push your magic button and fix things."

 

Because if its another one of the latter posts, yes I will post on there and say that you are beating and DEAD AND DECAYING horse. :D

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Actually it adds immediacy, as in "We need this now because a portion of us are growing impatient." If the negativity on the forums bothers you so much, you have every ability to avoid them. The choice is yours to come to the forum and take part in the back-and-forth dialogue between the developers and players.

 

So I guess that makes you the guy griping about the heckler for the whole show--the one who makes a bad situation worse because he can't control himself enough to not let it bother him.

 

But why add immediacy at all?

 

Do you or anyone else really think the devs are taking their time and watching the subs leave?

 

No.

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Really? :cool: So what do you say to the very constructive threads that are still derailed and hijacked by the anit-haters? ;) I guess those were really just hate posts in disguise? :eek: Maybe you can explain that too me? :o

 

If you can't figure it out on your own then there isn't any hope for me explaining it to you ;) But I'll give it a try :cool: It's simple: dozens of posters create hate threads for days and weeks and months for no other reason than to bash the game under the guise of feedback :confused::eek: posters who actually care about the game respond but are immediately called "biodrones" and "bioware defense force" :( The negativity breeds more negativity and the threads get caught in the crossfire

 

In conclusion: Jawa :jawa_wink:

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I got to say it absolutely infuriates me that people think this game is failing. Since when is 1.4 million subscribers bad? Yes, some subscribers left. So what? Most gamers don't dedicate more than 2-3 months to any game - PC and console gamers alike. New bright and shiny games came out that pulled the more fickle, short-term memory, attention-deficit gamers to them, at least for now. In the northern hemisphere, it's summer, daylight until 8-9pm which means a lot of people go outside and do stuff in the real world, not the virtual. Why pay for something you aren't using currently when you can come back?

 

i.e.:

It isn't new - means a subscription drop.

It's summer - means a subscription drop.

 

It doesn't help that "gaming journalists" come to these forums (which are generally populated with people complaining since the players that like the game are actually playing) and see all the flaming, trolling, and QQing as part of their "research" and go blog up some "news" somewhere about the game failing. This creates a vortex of stupidity and misinformation that feeds itself and makes people jump ship "before it really gets bad." It's freaking nonsense.

 

But when you have Bioware (or most likely EA [voted worst company ever, btw]) giving away the first 15 levels to anyone that wants to try it out, it lends itself to that "Epic Fail" mentality that we've seen with many games (star trek online most notably). I know there are some hopefuls out there that think that this will lead to increased subscriptions and I pray it does. I don't think it needs more per se, but whatever. I think the server consolidation and character transfers will do what needs to be done for those of you who can't find team. Personally my server is thriving and my guild has 20-30 active players every night - not just the weekends which sometimes doubles that number.

 

I understand some people have issues with the few problems that arise from time to time, it's an MMO, it happens - don't like it, go back to your console. But we have had spontaneous events pop up in game (The Rakgoul Event). We're getting expansions, extra races, planets, war zones, a cap raise, space battles and a plethora of new content for our tiny - yes, tiny - subscription fee. We are not being forced to buy new races in some kind of Bioware store, we don't have to run out or pay to download the new content and we get random surprises for our money. If this game goes free to play, ALL of that goes away.

 

I am definitively NOT happy with f2p to 15. Special free weekend passes, special free trial weeks, give away passes that you can give to your friends and family for a trial period, a free 14-day trial period - any of these I'm fine with, but free to play for everyone? No -deleted- way!

 

I truly want to rage in such a way that breaks forum protocols with a litany of profanity and attacking specific folks and their respective posts over this, but I will remain restrained and reasonably "professional." But I think that Bioware (if they get a say in this) needs to retract the F2P to 15 thing and wait a full year before they do anything along this route. Let us get through one more holiday season and see where things stand AFTER that.

 

Please. I'm begging. Have faith in your product. This game is fantastic. It has raised the bar for every MMO currently and for the future - all voice acted, vast re-playability within the same class/storyline, vast explorable areas, a fluid, multi-act story arc...and so very much more. Do not let the nay-sayers ruin this MMO. If this one dies, then let them ALL die.

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If you can't figure it out on your own then there isn't any hope for me explaining it to you ;) But I'll give it a try :cool: It's simple: dozens of posters create hate threads for days and weeks and months for no other reason than to bash the game under the guise of feedback :confused::eek: posters who actually care about the game respond but are immediately called "biodrones" and "bioware defense force" :( The negativity breeds more negativity and the threads get caught in the crossfire

 

In conclusion: Jawa :jawa_wink:

 

So you're part of the problem you're lamenting? Got it.

 

In conclusion, cool rakghoul. :rak_03:

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But why add immediacy at all?

 

Do you or anyone else really think the devs are taking their time and watching the subs leave?

 

No.

 

Of course not, but immediacy adds importance, which hopefully impacts how the developers establish project priorities. Make sense?

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So you're part of the problem you're lamenting? Got it.

 

In conclusion, cool rakghoul. :rak_03:

 

I just get tired of it. :mad: It's irritating to see your hobby pooped on, especially when you know that most of the pooping is unfounded and probably for "lulz." :( I might jab at haters but know that if there is polite feedback being given, even harsh feedback, I could get behind that feedback. :)

 

I see your cool Rakghouls and raise you: :jawa_cool:

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I just get tired of it. :mad: It's irritating to see your hobby pooped on, especially when you know that most of the pooping is unfounded and probably for "lulz." :( I might jab at haters but know that if there is polite feedback being given, even harsh feedback, I could get behind that feedback. :)

 

I see your cool Rakghouls and raise you: :jawa_cool:

 

Here's some advice: You have no more capability to change the behaviors of people than I do--which is none. So you either roll with the punches and be part of the solution by providing as objective as feedback as possible, or you can continue fanning the flames.

 

:i_cool:

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Here's some advice: You have no more capability to change the behaviors of people than I do--which is none. So you either roll with the punches and be part of the solution by providing as objective as feedback as possible, or you can continue fanning the flames.

 

:i_cool:

 

You can't directly change someone's behavior, no, but you can change their attitude. And their attitude will eventually change their behavior. Happens every day.

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Here's some advice: You have no more capability to change the behaviors of people than I do--which is none. So you either roll with the punches and be part of the solution by providing as objective as feedback as possible, or you can continue fanning the flames.

 

:i_cool:

 

Advising to keep a cool head and remain constructive is good advice, but the notion that we can't change people's behavior is false. We can certainly change the way people act, often by how we respond to their actions. For example, if someone likes to shoulder bump everyone they walk past, they will probably stop doing so after the first time someone knocks their teeth in for being rude. Of course, the forums are much harder to deal with because of juvenile trolling, and the protection of anonymity. BUT, even then, we have some recourse: ignore the flaming posters; don't sink to their level and start bickering. The problem is too many people take the bait and start fighting.

 

ON TOPIC for the thread, though, F2P is nothing but a good thing. You can say it signals the end, but it does breathe life into the game, even for a game that's not dead like SWTOR (over a million subs? sure, some of those may be people who bought longer subs and are now just ticking down to cancellation, but that number is still very hard to ignore). I got into SWTOR after a free weekend--prior to that, I was unwilling to drop $60 on the game and then another $15 for a sub for something I couldn't even sample. And by level 15, you get a really good taste of how the leveling in this game works out, which is simply amazing (the idea that leveling is played through a character-driven story is fantastic, and makes the journey to cap actually feel like a game and a good time, rather than a chore like other MMOs). To be honest, I was really surprised when Bioware didn't launch any kind of F2P mode for the game at launch, as that would have probably dragged in a lot more players who got hooked after their free taste.

 

If you really think F2P is bad for a game, or heralds the end, just look at DDO. That game was nearing death, then went F2P. Now? That game couldn't be further from death, and Turbine is actually expanding the size of its staff. I think that SWTOR going F2P now is a sign of foresight. Why wait till the game is in real trouble to hook more players in? Do it now, and never get to that point.

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Anyone who thinks this is bad just does not understand mmos these days. The "wow took 6 years to have a free trial" arguement just doesnt hold water, wow also took years to have an lfg tool and dual specs, does that mean a new mmo should wait to add those features too? Free trials are the new norm for MMO's all mmos are and will do them in the future as soon as the hype that gets people to buy the game without actualy trying it has died down.

 

Giving a free trial is a very ballsy move, if you think your game is crappy why on earth would you let people try it before they bought it?

 

Personaly i dont even buy mmos anymore without trying them first, since throwing money away on so many mmos the last few years like WAR, AOC, Tabula Rasa the list goes on and on, I did not buy Rift until they gave me a free trial and i did not buy Tera because it has no free trial. I didnt buy GW2 yet either because i have not tried the beta yet.

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It's not semantics. GW and GW2, STO and CO--those are F2P games. A cap on your experience of free content is a free trial.

 

Wrong GW / GW2 are not F2P.. you pay for the game.. you just dont pay a sub... maybe eventually you can but never with GW and not currently with GW2.... http://www.guildwars2.com/en/... see the "BUY NOW" thing ...

 

F2P is a zero cost function like LOTRO or DDO for eg.. you download for free, play for free with limited content and features then use with the option to use cashcow shop to upgrade and eventually pay to win....but that is a choice thing, your not forced to just enticed to...

 

Also to note TERA has just implemented its own free play trial to lvl10 ish I think.. so trials are nothing new to MMO's any more and are as good for the game as they can be bad for the game... but a game that has no marketing or temptiation initatives will only see their sub bases eroded by others that do or that are F2p anyway.. so BW are getting in try and pull back some of those subs.. personally I would be happier seeing a busier game than an game like it is now suffering daily across the plethora of dead servers.... its what they do after the trial periods have run there course that would concern me more... :)

Edited by Bloodstealer
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