How did it come to this?

[SpyderBite]

How did it come to what?

 

My enjoyment hasn't changed since Beta.

 

.. Or did you forget an "IMO"?

[BJWyler]

I also enjoyed the group content and actually spent many of my play session with my guildies. It had some epic quest lines that could take you months to complete (the Claymore series). We spent many an evening down in some dungeon, chatting and waiting for whatever boss you needed to kill to spawn. EQ2 had a bit more camping than I was used to but it forced you to socialize and get to know your groupmates pretty well. I thought that EQ2 did so many things right and had many of the elements that I love in an MMO. If SWTOR had some of EQ2's depth, I would probably stick around a bit more. I do like SWTOR but as others have said, it feels like a well done single player game.

 

I know that no game is perfect at launch. I can tolerate bugs and unpolished content. However, there are so many things that would have been awesome in SWTOR. For example, I was excited about customizing my ship. Or as I'm out and about in Dromand Kass, I look at all the interesting buildings and wish that I could have an apartment somewhere. My personal house. What about some neat hobbies like pod racing, gambling, etc. Whenever I enter a casino, it calls out for minigames. Heck, just let us sit in chairs.

 

But you see, that's where a lot of the problem lies - what seems like a lack of content or failure of a game for one, is a non-issue for another. I don't need to customize my ship; I don't need to explore every room or every floor of every building in the game; I don't need to sit in chairs; More mini-games are (almost) always nice for a quick diversion. For me, the game isn't broken because those things aren't in the game, the game isn't lacking because crafting isn't very deep. The things that the game is offering now is enough to keep me playing and anticipating the content they will add in the future.

 

There have been many games in the past that haven't kept me captivated or offered things that I would want in the game. The difference is that I didn't spend my times on the forum demanding or QQing that the game sucks because it didn't fit my playstyle or method of enjoyment - I simply accepted that the game wasn't for me and moved on. Certainly the SWTOR as is can improve in several areas (PvP anyone?), but there is no need to change the fundamental design of the game because that fundamental design still appeals to a target playerbase, and no game will be able to have features and gameplay that will satisfy everyone, nor should it try because that is the recipe for disaster.

 

iin the end, despite what lots of people are saying, i think there is a demand for something fresh(er). that freshness is, of course, a sandbox. sandbox games, from a big companies point of view, cater to a "niche" market. games like Eve have a small but dedicated sub base, and as such, big companies of course refuse to take that path despite the fact that it's the only viable path that just hasn't been utilized properly. the themepark MMO design is just terrible and everyone is starting to realize it. once TERA and "the secret world" (what a joke of a concept) fail miserably, and TOR keeps bleeding subs, perhaps the AAA companies will wake up and get some balls. only then can they take a chance with an actual unique concept for a game.

 

Really? I prefer Themepark over full sandbox any day of the week. My playstyle and time to play simply do not make full sandbox games enjoyable. Pure themepark can be linear and boring, but with a proper sprinkling of sandbox can offset that. There is a reason that big dev companies avoid sandbox - the very reason you stated: they're niche. The reason they are niche is because there are vastly more "casual" gamers out there today then there are "hardcore". Look at the games that are extremely popular and sell well - Facebook games, the Sims, and console games, these are all casual games that the "hardcore" would not even consider "true games", but those are the types of games that appeal to the vast majority of people that would be inclined to play games. The age of the catasser are over, the era of the poopsocker has ended, therefore those types of games will no longer be the mainstream, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

BJ

Edited June 3, 2012 by BJWyler

[Plumz]

They had a fantastic opportunity to take everything great out of SWG - all the bits that kept ppl returning - and lose the not so great parts - then add their own special expertese with the nice graphics and storylines / speech etc - they missed it and ended up with a dull non-addictive game that is very easy to put down.

 

They had fantastic opportunity and the biggest budget in history of mmos (not to mention the support of I would say most loyal, forgiving and excited fans) to create something that would thrive for years brining us all enjoyment over and over again. And what did they do with all fo that? How could they screw up so badly? How can you ever think that your product will suceed if it lacks not only standart functional components but main components of what makes MMO in a first place? How can you be so disconnected from reality of mmo market and playerbase expectations to have something to do in some communities with decent functional features?

 

How did it come to this?

[sumuji]

Well mate, 100s of 1000s of people have been walking out the door, at a steady rate, since the end of the first month. If it's eluded you so far, then I guess it's eluded you. But can you at least acknowledge that a game doesn't have people walking out since the first month, nor losing 25% of subscribers in a matter of a few months, if it's hunky dory?

 

By that bar every game has been horrible post-WoW because they've all seen the same pattern of people leaving. Do we really think they were all bad or maybe it's just unreasonable people that are the problem? Even my last game Rift started out very solid and saw quality updates at a fast pace that was unrivaled in the industry yet it saw the same kind of sub loss as TOR and every other game. I'd bet my bank account that almost all of the people that have left went back to WoW or if they're burned out on that they're eagery waiting for GW2 or some other title coming soon to release so they can cancel it in the first few months.

[Deewe]

Overblown rhetoric is overblown rhetoric.

 

Name another MMORPG that launched in the last year with a monthly subscription and a stellar subscriber story.

 

There's a solid set of reasons why BioWare was granted the opportunity to create this game and why the countless players on the forums did not get the same opportunity, and that was because of their vision for the game. It's really easy to sit back on the other side of the development wall and say "You should have done this instead, or this, and this" but it's a whole different scenario when YOU are the guy at the table with the clean sheet of paper and you have to determine what kind of game A) You want to make, and B) you CAN make within the timeframe and budget allowed.

 

And what is wrong with that vision? Nothing inherently. The story is immensely well-done and has changed the landscape of MMORPGs forever. Try going back to a little text bubble quest game. The vision of multi-team flashpoints with the ROTJ Attack On Endor/Death Star II as the "Holy Grail" of flashpoint design, with a team in space, a team on the ground, and a team on the Death Star. The vision of the Legacy system, replicating the central core Skywalker family and its interactions amongst its members. The vision of a fantastic ground game experience married to a compelling and playable space game experience, with further developments on the way and a complete break from the rails in motion.

 

There's nothing wrong with the vision of this game's developers, IMHO.

 

Of course, there have been a few stumbles along the way, specifically in regard to PVP, and perhaps in endgame constructs. But the PVP issue has been addressed and is being reformulated, and this is not at all outside the scope of possibility. It's much easier to take the fully functional game we now have and alter the PVP systems than to take a game with good PVP mechanics and add the rest of the game to it. Similarly, it's much easier to graft new visions of endgame onto the existing framework they have built.

 

Most of what I can see that's wrong with how this game has unfolded is that a million or so gamers thought this was supposed to be SWG2, even though no one ever said that's what the game would be. The silver lining, however, is that at least most of them bought the core game and helped recoup the game's development costs, leaving it with a great opportunity to be highly profitable going forward.

 

For that, those of us who will be playing for years to come thank you and appreciate your contributions toward making this an awesome game for the rest of us. I'm sure the development team and management teams are also thankful that so many people bought the game even though their expectations were completely out of line with reality. They may not be able to say as much openly as to that specific reason, but I'm sure they are appreciative. We all hope you'll check back from time to time as other games you check out also don't pass the extremely high bar being set by some of today's players.

 

Over time, the doom and gloom seen here will give way to the realization that there was a bright future after all.

Good post still...

 

 

I disagree with the story part it's not that great and personally I find AoC or Lotro much better. Remove the voice over and well the stories are bland, full of stereotypes, totally lack meaningful choices, makes being a Jedi Knight of Wrath or the Emperor nothing more than a grunt because every damn NPC can ask you to sweep the floor for them. In TOR you feel like a peon. In LotRo you feel like being part of a grand scheme, your actions feel like you are doing something important even if you aren't the main hero. Even for a single RPG game TOR is worse than most BioWare games and not as good as say the Witcher or Risen.

 

Then there's something very wrong with the vision of the game by the Devs:

-------V.O. story encompasses everything else in an MMO. No it simply doesn't.

 

V.O. should not only have been considered as a topping only.

Also it hinders the game in the long term. First because of the prohibitive long and costly increase of content development. Then because you brain do remembers much better spoken text so it gets old and repetitive way faster than text... you aren't obliged to read (sic!).

The producer decided V.O. Story > good UI, responsive combat, efficient engine, world PvP, character customization, space sim, living world, good NPC AI... etc. It was a bad choice. Too much $$$ went into story and comparatively too few in the rest. So we end with an half finished product and a lacking MMO. At least for a game with monthly fees.

 

Also I'm sorry but only a few players expected this game to be SWG2, in fact even SWG fans did not want it so. However most of them would have appreciated more sandboxes elements for sure.

 

 

Now moving forward, first this game needs a new direction. Everybody playing this game knows that.

Second they have to totally change their communication behavior: stop the self congratulation. Nor more blaming players for giving poor feedback. Never ever say things like we can't speak about that or will speak when it's 100% ready. Accept that your ideas and design concept will be challenged and get ready to drastically change them.

 

 

MMO are bit like Formula 1 the devs are the mech and the players the drivers.

 

When the driver tells you the car is breaking left even if your million dollars mainframes and telemeters tells you he's wrong, do what he says. He's right because it's his brain, which is in control of the steering wheel, and it will react to what it's feeling, not the reality.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Deewe

[thomasgallant]

They had fantastic opportunity and the biggest budget in history of mmos (not to mention the support of I would say most loyal, forgiving and excited fans) to create something that would thrive for years brining us all enjoyment over and over again. And what did they do with all fo that? How could they screw up so badly? How can you ever think that your product will suceed if it lacks not only standart functional components but main components of what makes MMO in a first place? How can you be so disconnected from reality of mmo market and playerbase expectations to have something to do in some communities with decent functional features?

 

How did it come to this?

 

forgiving fans? are you kidding me? from beta one the fan base has been anything but forgiving.. the littlest thing sets half of the forums off like a group of children with tourettes syndrome..

 

and i can not say that the devsmade the player base this way..the players who play this also play games like ME3, which got a **** storm of negativitiy because they ended the game the way they did..

 

gamers are anything but forgiving, the gaming industry is one of the most snowflake creating, me generation harboring communities i have ever seen. honestly the smallest change that people dont like makes the community look like a bunch of crying babies whos world just ended..

 

we are not a forgiving bunch...but hey..we pay for the game ,we reserve the right to act like children. right?

[BJWyler]

And I agree with post before. Poeople are not leaving because they are impatient. We waited patiently 3 years for what was advertised as, the next thing in MMO, and it doesn't even have most freaking mmo aspects in it!

 

What I saw advertised was a game that would focus more on story than any other MMO to date. I never saw anything to lead me to believe that it would completely revolutionize the genre or change the mechanics.

 

The game is just boring plain and simple. You cant base a mmo around rerolling alts ...

I could go over all the things i nthis game that fails but honeslty i'm done becasue it just falls on deaf ears. There have been SSSSOOOO many great threads from experienced gamers on how to make the game more fun and instead we get legacy...

 

All the altoholics would disagree with you. I have been gaming for over 30 years, so does that make me experienced enough to say that not everything that has been suggested (i.e. demanded) would not make the game any more fun for me?

 

BJ

[thomasgallant]

What I saw advertised was a game that would focus more on story than any other MMO to date. I never saw anything to lead me to believe that it would completely revolutionize the genre or change the mechanics.

 

 

 

All the altoholics would disagree with you. I have been gaming for over 30 years, so does that make me experienced enough to say that not everything that has been suggested (i.e. demanded) would not make the game any more fun for me?

 

BJ

 

the problem is exactly that..not everyone finds the same things fun...and people think that their idea.. though they love it.. will be universally loved by everyone else....which isnt the case at all.

[RixoFutu]

i wish i could looking forward to something in this game ... or if im not playin it, have feeling that i missing something. Yet, there is no such things.

[Brendar]

The game never really "came to" anything. It was designed this way from the very beginning. Which, as many of us are finding out, was the problem to begin with. IMO, Bioware's strategy was just flawed from the get go. Instead of creating an MMO with some unique features, or doing something more ambitious, they set out to slightly improve all the little things we'd come to know from MMO's (i.e. WoW). Voice acting replaces text. Choreographed combat replaces wildly swinging/shooting.

 

While all that was fine and dandy, it's the things like the Legacy system that are just blatant, shiny object-type distractions that, once their novelty wears off (in about 10 minutes) leaves you with the same old things we've been accustomed to.

 

I was one of the staunch Bioware supporters early in the game and during development that rebutted people's "It's WoW with sabers" argument by pointing out that there are universal elements of an MMO that transcend games and genres (EQ had many similar things that WoW had, that Guild Wars had, etc.). But it's become clear after playing for six months now that this game, is just OLD. It feels old. It looks old. It plays old. And the smaller things they've done to make us forget that it's old just haven't done the trick. At least not for me.

[KennethHoover]

If people would get over their incessant need for instant gratification and let the game have time to mature, most of the problems would fix themselves.

 

Agreed. A culture raised on instant gratification leavened by Special Snowflake Status, along with a dresser full of "participation medals" from school and sporting events, isn't going to be patient enough to wait for anything of substance.

[BJWyler]

Absolutely you can. You personally may think it unreasonable to make these comparisons, but you do not have the same viewpoint as all players everywhere. Clearly, many MANY players did expect many of the features found in WoW to be in TOR at launch. Whether you agree or not, it has definitely hurt TOR in the long run to launch without a lot of these things.

 

It would NOT double development time to add in things like moddable UI, group finder, xserver functionality or server transfers, better guild features, etc. These are all things done by teams OTHER than the main content development team. We know TOR had a dedicated UI team during development (look back at the Friday map update that caused such a ruckus); they should've been working on the customizable UI that we got in 1.2 for launch. Group finder and Xserver functionality have nothing to do with in-game content and definitely could've been done by people on another team. Guild features are the same way. All of these things should have been in the game at launch.

 

Once again, you personally may not feel it is appropriate to compare a new release to a game that has been out for 7-8 years, but too bad. People have/do/will make that comparison. Players (well, reasonable players at least) are willing to accept a small amount of end-game content at launch -- to expect otherwise is ludicrous. But they are much less willing to wait on things that are considered basic features.

 

I agree with the customizable UI - that should have been in from the start. However, things like X-Server and LFG aren't as cut and dry. Let's remember this game had over 1.5 million signed up for betas, iirc pre-orders were at, or at least close to 1 million. Boxed sales were 2.4 million. When you expect your game to have a healthy population at the start, that makes X-Server and LFG tools redundant and a waste of development time/resources (IMO natch), and that time is better spent working on other things. Of course, now in hindsight, not having those type of things in place, including server transfers is a mistake, but you know what can be said of hindsight. I think the bigger issue was that they added more servers on top of raising server caps at launch. I think if they just raised caps, the population issue wouldn't have been such a big issue as soon as it was, and thus make LFG and transfers less of a priority at this point.

 

Agree with the original thread posting from Plumz completely and would like to offer some solutions as another suggested:

 

TOR needs to mimic and add the following SWG elements and they may blow all other MMOs out of the water:

 

1) Rich, complex and varied crafting and resource gathering system

2) Player housing, guild cities and atmospheric flight

3) Interactive buffing systems

4) Space engineering and flight / battles that allow more freedom and customisation - plus social interaction for grouped players within larger ships (TOR space currently sux IMO)

5) More sandboxing for all planets

6) Intelligent movement for mobs so that they wander outside set patterns (or at least appear to)

7) Heroics / instances that require alot of thought / planning and co-ordination to win rather than just click stuff and kill loads of golds

8) Improved dueling and social gathering in places like cantinas to enhance the social experience

 

They had a fantastic opportunity to take everything great out of SWG - all the bits that kept ppl returning - and lose the not so great parts - then add their own special expertese with the nice graphics and storylines / speech etc - they missed it and ended up with a dull non-addictive game that is very easy to put down.

 

Yep, they sure did. Years back, even before the existence of the first TOR forum, when there was a group of us talking on the main Bioware forums about the rumoured Star Wars MMO, I kept saying over and over and over and over, until I was blue in the face, that they were likely to go the WoW route, but what they should do is tack some nice sandbox stuff onto the themepark. Why? because it keeps people engaged, even when the themepark gets old. Did they listen? Did anyone listen? Nope. Of course not. If you're not a game designer, you apparantly can't have good ideas.

 

Uhmm, no. Not all of that stuff would make the game fun for me. Read my above posts for additional comments on this topic. There is a reason why sandbox games are niche and casual/themepark games are more popular. The ideal route is to be primarily themepark with a sprinkling of sandbox. The problem is, it is easier to add sandbox to themepark than the other way around. For me, this has been the first game that I truly can't put down or wait to get back in to play since GW1 - no need to make it SWG 2.0.

 

BJ

Edited June 3, 2012 by BJWyler

[ScarletBlaze]

Yes it does... if they want my subscription money. Of course if they don't want me to pay them then they can continue to produce whatever junk they want at a snails pace. If they can get people to pay for that then best of luck to them..

 

Well in that case what you want may not be what someone else wants. For instance you could love pvp and want more pvp stuff and I hate pvp so I could care less about adding more stuff for pvp.

 

Bioware has to take the wants and ideas of all their subscribers and balance it between them all and that is not always easy. They have to find a middle ground.

[demotivator]

No, the biggest problem is that people like you think that it's the consumer's fault for why the game isn't successful. This is the reason BW is so slow to making changes, and this is why people who are still paying the monthly sub are so bitter about players leaving.

 

It's a shame that the OP took that much time to make one point because that one point is being largely ignored.

 

That point is that TOR does not feel like an MMO. This is a problem that no amount of time will fix unless the Devs completely change direction, which with their arrogant attitude, will not happen. They foolishly believe that transfers and LFG tools will fix their single player MMO.

 

Care to explain how it is not a MMO?

[Nyteblades]

Care to explain how it is not a MMO?

 

He didnt say it wasnt aan mmo he said it dosnt feel like an mmo. To be honest these forums feel more multiplayer than most of the servers do.

[demotivator]

He didnt say it wasnt aan mmo he said it dosnt feel like an mmo. To be honest these forums feel more multiplayer than most of the servers do.

 

Not the devs fault if players don't want to group. There is plenty of group content to do in this game, while the lack of LFG feature hurts this content it is there and it's up to the players to run it. Heck even your regular quests bring more fun in a group than alone.

 

That's the issue with the MMO community these days: they want soloable content (see the Chronicles in RIFT, downgraded versions of raids for a couple of players) and still whine that there is not enough group content...

[DarthMaulUK]

Not the devs fault if players don't want to group. There is plenty of group content to do in this game, while the lack of LFG feature hurts this content it is there and it's up to the players to run it. Heck even your regular quests bring more fun in a group than alone.

 

That's the issue with the MMO community these days: they want soloable content (see the Chronicles in RIFT, downgraded versions of raids for a couple of players) and still whine that there is not enough group content...

 

Yes theres plenty of group content but new players are finding it all but impossible to actually find a group. 1.3 will be adding tools that should have been there from day 1 and if they had been, things could have been a bit different. Its sad when a planet has only 12 players and someone is trying to do engage in group content but cant.

[Darkulous]

Not the devs fault if players don't want to group. There is plenty of group content to do in this game, while the lack of LFG feature hurts this content it is there and it's up to the players to run it. Heck even your regular quests bring more fun in a group than alone.

 

 

This is why having a X-server LFD is vital in todays MMOs. There are more people playing solo in MMOs than ever before. Having a Full server doesn't promise a large population of players who WANT to group up. X-server LFD allows players, who WANT to group up, to find each other. It maximizes the pool of group-up-players.

[Arnan]

The game never really "came to" anything. It was designed this way from the very beginning. Which, as many of us are finding out, was the problem to begin with. IMO, Bioware's strategy was just flawed from the get go. Instead of creating an MMO with some unique features, or doing something more ambitious, they set out to slightly improve all the little things we'd come to know from MMO's (i.e. WoW). Voice acting replaces text. Choreographed combat replaces wildly swinging/shooting.

 

While all that was fine and dandy, it's the things like the Legacy system that are just blatant, shiny object-type distractions that, once their novelty wears off (in about 10 minutes) leaves you with the same old things we've been accustomed to.

 

I was one of the staunch Bioware supporters early in the game and during development that rebutted people's "It's WoW with sabers" argument by pointing out that there are universal elements of an MMO that transcend games and genres (EQ had many similar things that WoW had, that Guild Wars had, etc.). But it's become clear after playing for six months now that this game, is just OLD. It feels old. It looks old. It plays old. And the smaller things they've done to make us forget that it's old just haven't done the trick. At least not for me.

 

Couldnt said it better. 4 years for me with same gameplay -> getting bored. But its not only the big elements they copied that makes me cry, but all the small ones. Like why the hell do I pay my trainer to get skills? Ever seen a sw movie where the trainer said: "I cant train you that skills becauae you lack 1 credit"? And why does every planet start off with mail boxes? I thought this was scifi and they havent invented e-mail/cellphone yet so I could just mail people from my gui? And why does my bike controll like my horse mount in wow? With a click of a mouse it turns 180 degrese and also when I press space it jumpes, ***? Why not use it for boost? I can come up with 100 of similar small stories where you dont need more then 1min of thinkig to figure out something little more creative then just to copy everything. And yes, if you dont innovate you are doomed to fail. If you think having just a story in this game is enough to call it innovative, you are dead wrong.

[Kryana]

Here is the real truth that a majority of gamers know what they want in a mmo and in many cases it is alot of the same elements. Bioware decided to cater to the casual gamer because there are more of those players but what they fail to realize is the dedicated/hardcore gamers are what make your community and grow your game these are the players that do all of the content that is worth doing and are the ones that find and report bugs etc.

 

The beta players and the dedicated players have been telling bioware for moths and years for beta testers what was wrong with the game and what it lacked but they were too full of themselves and thought they were right and the players wrong now they see that the players were right and it was them thats wrong and they dont know how to fix the game without admiting they are wrong so it will not get fixed and they will have their casuals playing their 2-4 hours a week and their subscriptions will fall to around 250k-400k but will not be above that and their will be no community only the casuals that will come and go and their game will never flourish or reach its potential.

[dayhak]

That's pretty funny because the exact same thing can be said about a lot of gamers. They think that because they don't like a game or some aspects of a game, they know more about what a developer "should have done" than the developers themselves.

 

The biggest "problem" with SWTOR is it's maturity (how long it's been around). If people would get over their incessant need for instant gratification and let the game have time to mature, most of the problems would fix themselves. But since nearly everyone posting threads like this wants the game to be perfect RIGHT NOW, which can't possibly happen, they decide to say the game is a failure and proclaim that they are abandoning the sinking ship before it's too late.

 

The best thing that Bioware can do is to take their time and fix things right even if it takes too long for all the folks who need instant gratification. Odds are that those folks won't get their gratification from the other games they're looking forward to, either. And by that time, maybe SWTOR will have evolved into something that can keep them busy for a couple more months, until their need for something new and exciting kicks in and makes them leave again.

 

This response is the winner! Very well said... I cancelled my sub recently, only because the two servers I play on are dead... As soon as server merges are up, I will be back. The foundation for this game is amazing, but as stated above, the game needs time to build. WoW, which most people compare this game to, has had years of development time. Imagine what SWTOR is going to look like just 2 years down the line!

[Captain_Zone]

I think at this point all of us SW (and SWTOR) fans just simply have to acknowledge the fact that the game is going to sink unless a major overhaul is done. Unfortunately, with the BW record on how fast things are done this is not going to happen soon. If it does at all.

 

Lots of us have issues with the game, some are raised repeatedly on forums similar (or identical) others vary to a different degree. But I think all those issues are not the major reason why the game is tanking hard. The major reason is in the idea of the game devs of what a MMO is.

 

It's true, BW is not responsible to build communities, but it is their responsibility to support such in various ways. Without communities there is no mmo, there is nothing that will keep people logging back everyday and play. Good, or bad with their good/bad characters they are the key element of any game pretending to be a mmo. SWTOR doesn't only have any, it lacks important tools to create one. And it is not a mistake. It is a design as intended.

 

All the changes proposed by so many on these forums (some back during beta testing) could save the game. I am not talking about LFG tool or character transfers. Changes that would shift this game into a real mmo. Unfortunately, those things were already discussed way in beta and the Devs chose their vision of mmo instead. The worst part is, at this point BW is trying to patch holes in a leaking hull, but still hangs into their “own” vision of the greatest, innovating mmo they intended this game to be.

 

Any of you also get the feeling that just as we, players are pissed off by the Devs narrow (or lack of) vision, they seem to be also really frustrated with us? They had the greatest vision and innovation and story line etc.. and we, the players, pissed on everything their brilliance produced, with some ridiculous demands...

 

I followed the game development for over a year. Read forums with curiosity and anticipation of what will the experience of playing it be. There were red flags raised by beta testers more and more of them as the time of launch was approaching. Devs chose their own path, chose to ignore some obvious and valid points made by people who've been playing mmos for over a decade. Results we can all see right now.

 

Is the game going to die? Sure not. There will be enough interests for some time to keep it alive. But, those of you who keep saying “Let the whiners go, we don't care about the numbers, let those who enjoy the game stay and play..” - clearly don't realize the power of subscription numbers. It represent cash that a part of is put into future game development. I am not in designing and managing a mmo at all, but my common sense tells me there is a different power of “purchasing” future game development between 1ml and 500k subscribers. From my little understanding of business mechanics the 500k subs will give much less that 50% of purchasing power than of what 1ml subs does because of budget allocations. Simply put, your game experience is not going to improve much with dwindling subscription base.

 

A lot of us are really angry and upset. Not because we hate the game. We love the game and we wanted it so much to succeed. The frustration is on part because lots of us clearly see why the game is falling, yet the Devs are stubbornly hanging on their vision of what they want us to do. Sure, some people do create alts and play them over and over, but they do it because they play in a community interacting with friends/enemies. Guess, devs don't get that either...

 

I am going to run my sub and not renew it. Not because the game is beyond saving. Because the devs at BW are refusing to abandon “their” visions and adapt and restructure the game to truly become a MMO with a community that interacts with love/hate and everything between. I think most veterans mmo players will agree. For last decade (or even longer) we played much worst designed games with more bugs/glitches and even less functionality that this “beta SWTOR” offers. You don't play mmo because of it's vibrant storyline, graphics, or functionality. You keep coming into the game because of people you meet/group/love/hate that are in it.

 

How many subs do you need to lose before you get it BW? If ever...

 

No constructive criticism up there. Just a heaping helping of QQ with a side of wah.

 

Seriously, OP. With no idea of what you want, the Devs are just going to keep going with their original plan. Suggestions help them figure out what, if anything, to do differently.

[Kryana]

Strange, EA should have ample experience with such kind of people, now they have plenty of MMO experience.

 

That is actually inacurate its not things that will fix themselves in time without major changes. Not everyone wants to roll alts and see every story they want to become attcahed and invested in 1 character. They want to have a reason to go back to planets not just sit on the fleet before I quit playing my toon did not leave the fleet for over 3 weeks because I had no reason to the flashpoints and ops were all there which is a huge mistake. We want to have a reason to craft in the game to make useful stuff they we can use and sell. We want to have to go gather crafting materials ourselves not just click a button and have a companion go do it for us.

[Tsukuni]

It's getting tiring now reading so many threads about the same thing. If you've had enough quit noone is stopping you....it's that simple.

[HexHammer]

Not the devs fault if players don't want to group. There is plenty of group content to do in this game, while the lack of LFG feature hurts this content it is there and it's up to the players to run it. Heck even your regular quests bring more fun in a group than alone.

 

That's the issue with the MMO community these days: they want soloable content (see the Chronicles in RIFT, downgraded versions of raids for a couple of players) and still whine that there is not enough group content...

In reality it's hard to group up on many dead servers. Accept reality don't push it away.