How did it come to this?

[pilotjosh]

If it was just an issue of there being too many servers I don't think people would be leaving in droves.

 

I have been trying to get this point across every time i post in threads like this, you have all these people crying about the game failing because there are to many servers, its true people are leaving this game in droves every single day and i have news for you guys, ITS NOT BECAUSE OF LOW SERVER POPS, sure that has something to do with it, but there are much much larger issues why people are leaving this game. 3 months ago the servers for the most part had decent populations. Did they all start leaving massively because of low server pops, absolutely not, the game got very bland after 1.2 and even before it. The lack of content, and endgame material is ultimately what started to make people lose interest in this game. that is why we started to see the decline of populations. Server transfers and mergers could possibly help the existing population but it sure as hell isnt going to respark this game and get thousands of people to come flocking back, it just isnt gunna happen

[Ryvath]

 

My issues with TOR are...

 

Dull Combat we have done in WoW for 7 years...

 

Gear grind is just that a grind it isn't fun nor enjoyable in anyway...

 

Lack of unique species for a starwars game this is pretty big...

 

Crafting ends up being kinda useless...

 

Is no real choice in game...all end the same way regardless of choices...

 

Still balancing issues in leveling game, especially on voss

 

Gear looks terrible and not very starwarsy...

 

Classes being locked per faction this is one of my biggest gripes... where is my imperial trooper? only the jedi/sith should have been locked.

 

SI story being about artifacts rather then manipulation, and sith hierarchy...

 

I agree and share your thoughts on almost all the points you made. Biggest one for me is how bad the gear looks.

Although there were many reasons I've decided to take a break from this game and not resub for a while ... I think that was the biggest one. Aside from the story lines (which are great!) for me I quest for the rewards... rewards in the form of gear or credits or tokens that let me get better gear... I want my toon to LOOK how I want..... not how some BW designer has envisioned what he wants me to look like....

 

ONE of the big draws to this game for me was way back when I first started hearing about it.... years ago one of the press blurbs stated that unlike other mmo's in this game you would have so many options to customize you appearance it was very possible you'd never run into a duplicate of yourself. The teaser video for 1.2 patch clearly showed how a you could customize the colour of your gear.... but was not included.... I'm easy to please... would have been content and occupied with this feature alone for a while... why was it not included? I think the reason is much like the OP mentions.

 

All the other reasons I am taking a break from this game are basically about lack of choices in many things and feeling restricted in things that make no sense to have restricted. Legacy gear for one, gear appearance customization, lack of choice in companions and companion alignment.

 

When summer is over and the cold weather is back I'll probably re-sub and see whats new, and what's changed but for now I'm not liking where things are headed.

[Kreedlore]

You can defend BW all you want sir. The fact is in less than 6 mohts when sub numbers drop below 500k mark and the company will slash suff out because of money trouble you will be filling those forums with your own bitterness that the game you love is going crap (insert more eloquent description here).

 

And I agree with post before. Poeople are not leaving because they are impatient. We waited patiently 3 years for what was advertised as, the next thing in MMO, and it doesn't even have most freaking mmo aspects in it!

 

I don't care about devs bloating on twitter or anywhere else hyping it up. Reality check. I am not paying for a tour ride around the town in riksha when it was advertised as a prime limousine service. Don't know about you, but lots of people decided not to pay it either.

 

 

YUP fully agree , same fanbois went on about things in Conan , Star Trek ,Champions .....All said it wasnt happening and give it time blah blah blah.......All will either stay in the shell with blinders on and ears covered or they will see everyone disappear and realize there is another reality occuring and ironically start b***t******g* that the game is flawed finally......Either way it doesnt really matter. Fact is the game needed to be equal or better than the competition's current stuff out there ,no more no less....And needed to have all of the options that have been cultivated over the years by others, the expected level of development as seen in others . Far, far to many things that were not simply in at launch that should have been . That were all stated in closed beta.....

 

In case you didnt see that note attached to your delivery notice when they dropped off your Ferrari that you ordered. "Engine coming soon have a nice day enjoy your new ride !......."

Edited June 3, 2012 by Kreedlore

[Kyse]

i think they doing a good job u all just need 2 stop playing 16 hours a day wait a year and im sure alot of what u want fixed is going 2 be fixed and im also sure u all are going to find something new to whine about if the game goes free then its not cuz of them its the players for wanting it all right from the start yeah they could of gave us more but even if they would have u all would find something to whine about im sure

 

i mean my Legacy is only like 18 or 19 not on right now so cant look but u all talking crazy with lvls of 40+! wth go outside! lol

 

 

also im not really a starwars fan either! never really got into but the game is really fun to me

Edited June 3, 2012 by Kyse

[Drom]

Here are the simple facts, and the reason we are in the shape we are in:

 

BIOWARE - Complete noobs in the MMO arena. (They have completely shown this in their fundamental design of this game)

 

EA - NEVER has had ANY successfully MMO in history, and has been 100% failure in that department. (go google and find one that did well....go ahead)

1. Motorcity Online - Shutdown

2. Earth and Beyond - Shutdown

3. Sims Online - Shutdown

4. Warhammer - Abysmal failure - On life support

5. SWTOR - Dieing

 

We got 2 companies that have no idea what they are doing. So go ahead and keep waiting, and waiting....

 

And i keep hearing....oh well X game didnt have this at launch, or Y game was like that at launch.....here is the difference....THEY ACTUALLY HAD STUFF TO DO to keep us entertained in the meantime. TOR has nothing, its dead, its pointless, its boring. The endgame in TOR is so utterly pathetic it hurts the mind. Were stripped of nearly any form of customization....and were all forced down paths.

 

The sooner companies realize that WOW will never be topped by a WOW clone, the sooner these companies will begin creating games that are fun, engaging, and designed where we WANT to keep playing.

 

Pure Themepark games are crap...there time is coming to an end. Were tired of being told what to do, let us make our damn story, let us do what we want to do, let us breath, let us be free.

 

You forgot APB! Shutdown!

[DarkSaberMaster]

YUP fully agree , same fanbois went on about things in Conan , Star Trek ,Champions .....All said it wasnt happening and give it time blah blah blah.......All will either stay in the shell with blinders on and ears covered or they will see everyone disappear and realize there is another reality occuring and ironically start b***t******g* that the game is flawed finally......Either way it doesnt really matter. Fact is the game needed to be equal or better than the competition's current stuff out there ,no more no less....And needed to have all of the options that have been cultivated over the years by others, the expected level of development as seen in others . Far, far to many things that were not simply in at launch that should have been . That were all stated in closed beta.....

 

In case you didnt see that note attached to your delivery notice when they dropped off your Ferrari that you ordered. "Engine coming soon have a nice day enjoy your new ride !......."

 

The highlighted hit the nail on the head.

[Megaloz]

You forgot APB! Shutdown!

 

Ah i missed that one...it shutdown within 2 months i believe! lol EA

[Lasica]

This must be some peoples first MMORPG. All I see on here is a bunch of QQ'ers complaining about how this game isn't perfect. Like it for what it is and learn a bit of optimism slash patience.

 

As a paying customer I can demand perfection and want it delivered immediately. If that doesn't happen then I can not pay for the game. I don't have to be patient with developers if they can't give me what I'm looking for.

[mathisk]

As a paying customer I can demand perfection and want it delivered immediately. If that doesn't happen then I can not pay for the game. I don't have to be patient with developers if they can't give me what I'm looking for.

 

The thing is that you are NOT paying for the game you want. You are paying for the game Bioware produced. If the two things are the same, great. If not, then that's too bad. The millions they spend and are spending on the game mean it's their property. The $60 you spent means you get to try the game and see if you like it. It doesn't mean you get to dictate what the game should be or should have been.

[Bluerodian]

The thing is that you are NOT paying for the game you want. You are paying for the game Bioware produced. If the two things are the same, great. If not, then that's too bad. The millions they spend and are spending on the game mean it's their property. The $60 you spent means you get to try the game and see if you like it. It doesn't mean you get to dictate what the game should be or should have been.

 

It does, however, mean the difference between retaining a customer or not. That does add up over time if the numbers not retained start to outpace those that are.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Bluerodian

[Plumz]

i think they doing a good job u all just need 2 stop playing 16 hours a day wait a year and im sure alot of what u want fixed is going 2 be fixed and im also sure u all are going to find something new to whine about if the game goes free then its not cuz of them its the players for wanting it all right from the start yeah they could of gave us more but even if they would have u all would find something to whine about im sure

 

i mean my Legacy is only like 18 or 19 not on right now so cant look but u all talking crazy with lvls of 40+! wth go outside! lol

 

 

also im not really a starwars fan either! never really got into but the game is really fun to me

 

If the devs keep the current trend of development in 1 year you will have 25k(or less) subs (not active players mind you ) spread on 6-12 servers. You will get a patch every 2-3 months and occasional tweet from someone in BW of how excited they are about the new pet/fluff/legacy usless emote/5 more new dailies/and next year game event coming along. All soon

 

I do agree with point made earlier. The complete overhaul of the game to save it is not going to happen. Not under this devs team. Even if it was a possibility the challenges that it presents are way over BW heads. You guys have trouble patching leaks, changing the direction of the game? Uh-hu... The outlook is bleak. Not becuase I am a pesimist, because the future doesn't start tomorrow, it starts right now. And BW past development is what causes the game to dive hard. Not players. For last 2 years it seems that the players were more interested in helping this game to be the sucess than BW as they are now bitterly asking to save it.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Plumz
typo

[Lasica]

The thing is that you are NOT paying for the game you want. You are paying for the game Bioware produced. If the two things are the same, great. If not, then that's too bad. The millions they spend and are spending on the game mean it's their property. The $60 you spent means you get to try the game and see if you like it. It doesn't mean you get to dictate what the game should be or should have been.

 

Yes it does... if they want my subscription money. Of course if they don't want me to pay them then they can continue to produce whatever junk they want at a snails pace. If they can get people to pay for that then best of luck to them..

[Darthshnooky]

I'm not a short-sighted player and I do not accept short-sighted predictions. The game will last as long as it will last, and no one at this point can do anything other than guess as to when that might be. Your expectations that "they don't have the amount of time they need" are simply an opinion, and not based in any real world fact or methodology. You say there's too much competition, but that's also an opinion, and not valid for all players.

 

The only other game I even remotely have an interest in at this point is taking a look at "Titan", and I don't expect that out until 2015. I'm also not convinced that most of the SWTOR player base is completely devoted to PVP. I think there are a lot more PVE players than PVP players, so other games with better PVP dynamics (regardless of the content material, which is still important to a lot of players) really don't matter that much. Sure, the PVP hardcore will ditch, but that doesn't say much about the rest of the player base.

 

Check my join date here on the forums -- believe me i'm a long-haul type of person myself. I'm just worried about how well this game can retain players because of decisions the devs have made. You cannot discount PvP in this game as I'm sure many of the subs they've lost so far were PvPers. The devs even admitted they weren't ready for this game to be as popular with PvPers as it was at launch. They made mistakes in that aspect of the game and lost people because of it. While you may not care about pvp, lost subs hurt a game in the end, no matter who those players are.

 

I'm an old school gamer. I can enjoy Coruscant the 9th time just like I enjoyed Centipede the 90th time or Super Sprint for the 5th hour that day in an arcade.

 

Now Dromund Kaas is a different matter. I've been through Hutta and Dromund Kaas twice so far and I don't really look forward to going back to either. Ugh. LOL. I'd rather pay $25 each for my Bounty Hunter and Imperial Agent to move them over from my old server than to go through DK or Hutta again.

 

Well i've only been through Coruscant twice, so maybe it's just better on multiple playthroughs than DK.

 

As to WOW's multiple zones, yeah that would be nice. But WOW is also a different game, and regardless of multiple zones, or a game like Entropia where the entire world is an open zone that you can choose to level anywhere you wish so long as you can hang out in that area without being killed by mobs, I have little interest in playing either game compared to SWTOR.

 

And it's only a bad design from your perspective. For players who like leveling up with a buddy, the standard planetary progression is a godsend, because you wind up on the same planets around the same time, and in the same zones on each planet as you move on. We can talk about the lack of variety or variation possibilities, but for a game at launch, I think it's a great design.

 

And each playthrough with different characters and different advanced classes is different to me because it's a new weapon and a new set of attacks and tactics, along with the dynamic created with different companions. Playing through Balmorra with a Jedi just isn't the same to me as playing through with a Trooper or a Gunslinger.

 

It's funny you bring up leveling with a buddy, because i've leveled all my characters on my main server with my girlfriend. We play together all the time, matching classes to make the progress easier/faster. It's not a problem to plan out where you're going to go with guildies or friends -- so i don't see how that in any way impacts the fact that there should be options for where to level up. A new class does bring some differences, but killing 8 guards while i click on the 3 power generators is not that different if i'm slinging lightning or laying down blaster fire. Of course, these things are all just my opinion, but i'm enjoying the debate/conversation.

 

Well sir, you certainly have extremely high standards for MMORPG's that had an early release and still in their first year. Point me to a game that's released and has been flawless. Even WoW was in a major nick at start, a considerable amount worse than this.

 

Once again this defense is presented. It's not 2005 or 2004... You cannot compare the launch of TOR to WoW in this way because the game market was very different when WoW launched. The MMO market especially was different then. WoW has changed the MMO market and developers have to be aware of that and understand what it means. TOR had absolutely the smoothest launch i've ever seen for an MMO -- it was unbelievable actually. Yes there were queues, but compared to the number of free weeks of game time i got from Blizz in the first couple months after WoW launched, it was nothing.

 

Now, aside from that, however, TOR was/has been lacking in certain areas. Each major patch has helped alleviate this (UI customization, more character customization, group finder, etc) -- but these are things that should've shipped with TOR. In 2012, developers have to be aware of who they are competing with. I'm not one of those people who thinks TOR should've shipped with as much endgame content as WoW has, that's just ludicrous. But the features and game elements should've matched what has become the industry standard because it's just expected due to competition and how the MMO market has changed.

[Ryvath]

This must be some peoples first MMORPG. All I see on here is a bunch of QQ'ers complaining about how this game isn't perfect. Like it for what it is and learn a bit of optimism slash patience.

 

Can't speak for everyone but personally been playing MMO's since before the term MMORPG and MMO was actually used.... If all you see is a bunch of QQ then maybe your new to MMO's, or haven't been following this games development for very long.... I've been following it since it was first announced a few years ago.

 

"like it for what it is" - no... BW + Star Wars + Kotor even before there were screen shots of this game or any info other then "hey we are making an MMO kotor 3... not sure what it's called yet... but were making it"

Just the combination of those three things should be like .... combining Peanut Butter + Jam + Sex

in other words.... I have no idea how they will mix em together... but I'm sooooooo going to LOVE IT!!!!

And I although I can understand a lot of the gripes about lack of MMO elements in this game for me I think they did a great job of merging a single player RPG like Kotor with an MMO.

 

Biggest thing that is killing the MMO fun for me, is lack of world pvp on the pvp server I tried.

Got 2 level 50's on a pve server.... then have been leveling a toon on a pvp server... it's only level 30ish right now but so far the leveling process is exactly the same on the pvp server as it was on the pve server. That is a problem... I expected / wanted more of an experience on a pvp server like on WoW when you started hitting contested areas. Anyways I could be patient with that and see if they work it out at some point....

 

Also I don't even think that BW's lack of experience in making MMO's is at fault either.... IMHO they have done a great job the creation and merging of the MMO and Single player aspects..... fixes are needed but for early stages it's a success in that regard.

 

The reason I'm letting my subscription run out and will not renew at least until the end of summer (unless something better is out) is because the game really feels restrictive.... As the OP states it really does feel like a lot of choice has been taken away from the player ONLY because it doesn't fit what the game designers envisioned. Character appearance as an example.... I figured being able to customize the colour of all my gear was a feature just not yet implemented but was in the works... Till I read a dev Q&A post that basically said "they" don't want to see a server full of toons with dull bland colours...

 

You honestly don't see a problem with that last bit? "YOU" pay for the game, pay for a subsciption but what "YOU" want isn't as important as what "THEY" want? Even when it comes to something soooo simple as the colour choice of what your toon is wearing? Personally if they take such a hard stance on something so simple, I don't have any optimism at all for what the future holds. I go to a place to get force fed what I don't want 8 hours a day 5 days a week... not going to waste the money or time for the same experience in my private time too.

 

I just figure BW is no longer the go-to guys they used to be... it was a great run and full of good memories...

ahhhhh Baldur's gate.... the hours we shared....

 

Still a bit of hope... but we shall see.

[Plumz]

That is exactly the attitude of the devs that is the nail to the coffin of the game. They don't want this or that and they want us to do this and that. I left preschool a very long time ago. What about instead of telling us what they "want" giving us some options of what we would like? Are we playing to please the devs visual likings?

 

Lets see how many subs will they salvage with this attitude. The thing is - even after you lay it out for them they still don't get it and keep the same attitude toward their playerbase. Am I paying BW to tell me what they want me to do? *** is that coming from? Are they from another galaxy or something?

[Styxx]

@OP

 

Because SWG has sunk like... 2 times, or more.. in, how many years again?

 

It took the newest iteration of the Star Wars MMO to manage to shut it down.

 

Yes.. I can totally believe you...

Edited June 3, 2012 by Styxx

[Darkulous]

Considering what the devs were targeting, in subscriptions, this game is sinking - fast! But like almost all MMOs, it will stabilize, even in it's current state. Personally, I think that number will be around 500K.

[blur]

How many subs do you need to lose before you get it BW? If ever...

 

I think there's a general arrogance that comes from the company, suggesting they never will.

 

As a dear guildmate once said to me, they'll go down on the sinking ship, still shaking their fist at everyone but themselves, for not appreciating their amazing story.

[Plumz]

I think there's a general arrogance that comes from the company, suggesting they never will.

 

As a dear guildmate once said to me, they'll go down on the sinking ship, still shaking their fist at everyone but themselves, for not appreciating their amazing story.

 

THIS! Nothing more to add...

[DarkerMatter]

Have to agree with the OP, even though I enjoy playing this game, it's failing..you can't deny it when at prime time on a Saturday there is one server at very heavy one at heavy, two at standard and the rest are all light... At this point Bioware needs to pull a proverbial rabbit out of their *** to save it.

[Kyse]

the year for the game is still only around what half way so they still got lots of time 2 get things to what u all want but people always want more i forone am happy with the way it is and lvling new chars with the time i play 1.3 is coming 1.4 is also coming after that all in this year and no telling how many more patches

[Trevuar]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=470564

[Elmillia]

How many times has WoW been called a sinking ship over the years? And it ended up with 12 million players.

 

SWTOR is doing fine functionality wise. The problem is with the impatient twits who forget that WoW didnt have character transfers or a dungeon finder when it launched yet they expect SWTOR to have all of WoWs features at launch.

[Kreedlore]

Kreedlore

 

Fact is the game needed to be equal or better than the competition's current stuff out there ,no more no less....And needed to have all of the options that have been cultivated over the years by others, the expected level of development as seen in others . Far, far to many things that were not simply in at launch that should have been . That were all stated in closed beta.

 

 

 

 

 

The highlighted hit the nail on the head.

 

 

Not sure which is worse the devs that don't get that fact or the gamer's that think things are fine as is.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Kreedlore

[Nyteblades]

How many times has WoW been called a sinking ship over the years? And it ended up with 12 million players.

 

SWTOR is doing fine functionality wise. The problem is with the impatient twits who forget that WoW didnt have character transfers or a dungeon finder when it launched yet they expect SWTOR to have all of WoWs features at launch.

 

Your right it didnt have them things. But it also had less servers more people per server and a higher retention rate than this game has. And to say it didnt would be wrong wows been out all these years and still yet has to do merges.

 

Sure they offerd transfers because people wanted them. But i have played wow since vanillas release. And while i havnt played in almost a year my wife still plays every day. You cant compare the short comings of this game to the short comings of wow. Simply because they dont match up.

 

Wow has had its problems and things sure, but never have they droped populations as a whole like this game has.

And no this game shouldnt be a wow killer or a wow clone.

 

But that dosnt mean the developers should have completly ignored the things blizzard got right either. If i'm Desighning a new custom ride sure i try to make it unique and speacil . But im also smart enough to realize theres many aspects from previous models and rides that just works to well to ignore.

 

Thats the great thing about following up a major success while yea its hard to reach the same levels. Theres plenty of points to draw from to get ideas and revamped structures.