Mistress_Ivi Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Several things need to be changed, about all proffessions in this game when it comes to weapons and what we are allowed to actually get our hands onto and actually blast, slash and maim with. Trooper : - Pistols: In all quest cutscenes with the trooper, not once has my Vanguard ever actually used her Rifle to threaten, shoot or kill with. Infact, the entire time she has used a pistol - which in all respect, is way more officer material than a rifle - so why not? - Rifles: Remove the penalisation of the Commando using a Rifle, they use rifles to begin with... how the heck did they forget once they got the shiney death machine? Bounter-Hunter : - Scattergun or Knife (and/or) : The tanking type of bounty hunter should be allowed to put a knife in their hands if they so wish, or a scatter gun. Instead of limiting them with a Pistol and-or Generator. - Rifles/Sniper: The Cutscenes may all be pistols, as are the cinematics, but Bounty hunters used any weapon they could grab onto, why can't they use what they want? Sith/Jedi : - Lightsabers : Both sides of the force are trained to use all melee weapons, both single and double ended. Yet they are forced to use only one type and if they dare use another, become penalised. I'm sorry, but anyone who is actually as well trained and powerful as a force user that has reach master/lord status - can and will be able to use any weapon at any point. This applies to all melee weapons currently in game, uncluding knives for extra Non-force dps (although Jedi/Sith friendly versions should be avaiable). Agent: - Pistols: I may not have played Agent long enough to find out, but an Imperial Agent would be more than able to use a blaster Pistol if they start the game with a Blaster Rifle, so why can't they? Smuggler: - Rifles: I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but Vette, the Sith Warrior's companion and most arguably the most smuggler-ish companion you can get after Andronikos can use Blaster Rifles... and since Smugglers are just civilians using any weapon they can get ahold of, why wouldn't they use a rifle if one was on hand? Anyways, I've said my part. If I had it my way, the only exclusive weapons would be the Heavy/Assault cannons for BH/Trooper... otherwise, any other weapon should be fair game. (Aside from melee/ranged cross over, naturally). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenjaminminU Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I would absolutely love to be a combat medic commando wielding a pistol, blame the overly whiny pvp crowd who want to be able to tell a class within a second of looking at them because of the weapon they wield. Of course i could be a commando, hide a rifle on my back and wear jedi robes just to troll them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxTNT Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 This has been on my mind since I started playing and I think would make a fine addition to the game(play) It would certainly allow people to play the way they like and customize their character to fit their views and/or roleplay. (e. g. Smuggler with a rifle -- its a dangerous world out there. Bounty hunter with a knife as secondary -- 'cause those pesky Jedi keep trying to hug me...etc...) And the weapons are already ingame, it would merely require the restrictions to be lifted (and maybe some special gear in a later game update) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 +1 (again) This should be put in the game. The arguments against it don't outweigh the benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The arguments against it don't outweigh the benefits. So the massive amount of animation work required with all the cost and lack of other content being developed, is not that big of a deal compared to a completely cosmetic thing such as what weapon you carry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 So the massive amount of animation work required with all the cost and lack of other content being developed, is not that big of a deal compared to a completely cosmetic thing such as what weapon you carry? Correct. All the hard work that goes into making a Porsche is worth it when that baby hits the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 All the hard work that goes into making a Porsche is worth it when that baby hits the road. A Porsche is objectively and mechanically superior to a Ford Focus. It should cost more because it's a all around better car, with better materials, better craftsmanship, better engineering, ect... Letting Jedi Guardians use a double bladed saber, or a Powertech use a blaster rifle will not change the way this game plays in the least, it is at best eye candy. What you're saying is that it's worth paying 3 to 4 times more for a red Ford Focus then a blue one. I happen to disagree, because the lack of other things being developed is not worth a purely cosmetic change in this game. A change that will effect nothing, and improve nothing other then some peoples concept of how their character should look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalinSword Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 +1 for the OPs idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJMazz Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 A Porsche is objectively and mechanically superior to a Ford Focus. It should cost more because it's a all around better car, with better materials, better craftsmanship, better engineering, ect... Letting Jedi Guardians use a double bladed saber, or a Powertech use a blaster rifle will not change the way this game plays in the least, it is at best eye candy. What you're saying is that it's worth paying 3 to 4 times more for a red Ford Focus then a blue one. I happen to disagree, because the lack of other things being developed is not worth a purely cosmetic change in this game. A change that will effect nothing, and improve nothing other then some peoples concept of how their character should look. I gave that wench a red Ford Focus. Wenches love red Ford Focus. Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) A Porsche is objectively and mechanically superior to a Ford Focus. It should cost more because it's a all around better car, with better materials, better craftsmanship, better engineering, ect... Letting Jedi Guardians use a double bladed saber, or a Powertech use a blaster rifle will not change the way this game plays in the least, it is at best eye candy. What you're saying is that it's worth paying 3 to 4 times more for a red Ford Focus then a blue one. I happen to disagree, because the lack of other things being developed is not worth a purely cosmetic change in this game. A change that will effect nothing, and improve nothing other then some peoples concept of how their character should look. A Porsche is aesthetically superior to the Ford Focus, it takes work to make it look better, but in the end it's great. Besides one is a utility and the other is a luxury. I want the luxury to keep me happy until they optimize, and re-optimize, and do it again, then break it, and re-optimize. Besides, more options are good. Keeping SWTOR as the home of the choice-challenged isn't a good idea. Edited May 31, 2012 by mattgyver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJMazz Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 A Porsche is aesthetically superior to the Ford Focus, it takes work to make it look better, but in the end it's great. Besides one is a utility and the other is a luxury. I want the luxury to keep me happy until they optimize, and re-optimize, and do it again, then break it, and re-optimize. Besides, more options are good. Keeping SWTOR as the home of the choice-challenged isn't a good idea. Just as I posted lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Just as I posted lol lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBBP Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Several things need to be changed, about all proffessions in this game when it comes to weapons and what we are allowed to actually get our hands onto and actually blast, slash and maim with. Trooper : - Pistols: In all quest cutscenes with the trooper, not once has my Vanguard ever actually used her Rifle to threaten, shoot or kill with. Infact, the entire time she has used a pistol - which in all respect, is way more officer material than a rifle - so why not? - Rifles: Remove the penalisation of the Commando using a Rifle, they use rifles to begin with... how the heck did they forget once they got the shiney death machine? Bounter-Hunter : - Scattergun or Knife (and/or) : The tanking type of bounty hunter should be allowed to put a knife in their hands if they so wish, or a scatter gun. Instead of limiting them with a Pistol and-or Generator. - Rifles/Sniper: The Cutscenes may all be pistols, as are the cinematics, but Bounty hunters used any weapon they could grab onto, why can't they use what they want? Sith/Jedi : - Lightsabers : Both sides of the force are trained to use all melee weapons, both single and double ended. Yet they are forced to use only one type and if they dare use another, become penalised. I'm sorry, but anyone who is actually as well trained and powerful as a force user that has reach master/lord status - can and will be able to use any weapon at any point. This applies to all melee weapons currently in game, uncluding knives for extra Non-force dps (although Jedi/Sith friendly versions should be avaiable). Agent: - Pistols: I may not have played Agent long enough to find out, but an Imperial Agent would be more than able to use a blaster Pistol if they start the game with a Blaster Rifle, so why can't they? Smuggler: - Rifles: I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but Vette, the Sith Warrior's companion and most arguably the most smuggler-ish companion you can get after Andronikos can use Blaster Rifles... and since Smugglers are just civilians using any weapon they can get ahold of, why wouldn't they use a rifle if one was on hand? Anyways, I've said my part. If I had it my way, the only exclusive weapons would be the Heavy/Assault cannons for BH/Trooper... otherwise, any other weapon should be fair game. (Aside from melee/ranged cross over, naturally). This is one of those areas where game mechanics win over reality (or assumed reality). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 yeah choices are for other games. this is better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 yeah choices are for other games A meaningless choice isn't really a choice. Unless the choice in weapons actually matter, then there's simply no reason to waste the resources needed to make this work. A Gunslinger doesn't do more damage then a Scoundrel because they have 2 blasters vs 1. Allowing a Bounty Hunter to use a rifle isn't going to change their DPS, or have any impact on the game in the least other then how your character looks. Giving gun classes more options could be fine, because that would require relatively few new animations if any. Allowing a Guardian to use two sabers or a double bladed saber would require two new animations for every power the guardian has, and two new ones for every power the Sentinel has, and the Shadow, and the Juggernaut, and the Marauder... Seeing how allowing a Guardian to use two sabers won't actually change anything in terms of game mechanics, it's the worse possible waste of time the Dev's could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendaric Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 A meaningless choice isn't really a choice. Unless the choice in weapons actually matter, then there's simply no reason to waste the resources needed to make this work. A Gunslinger doesn't do more damage then a Scoundrel because they have 2 blasters vs 1. Allowing a Bounty Hunter to use a rifle isn't going to change their DPS, or have any impact on the game in the least other then how your character looks. Giving gun classes more options could be fine, because that would require relatively few new animations if any. Allowing a Guardian to use two sabers or a double bladed saber would require two new animations for every power the guardian has, and two new ones for every power the Sentinel has, and the Shadow, and the Juggernaut, and the Marauder... Seeing how allowing a Guardian to use two sabers won't actually change anything in terms of game mechanics, it's the worse possible waste of time the Dev's could do. It's a choice that adds to our identification with our characters, plain and simple. And for a lot of us this is an important feature. While some new animations will be required, I'd assume it's far less than you may think. For example, the Sentinel's "Cauterize" (I think) is basically the same animation as the Guardian's "Overhead Slash", just with two sabers instead of one and many abilities are shared between the classes anyway. A lot of potentially usable animations seem to already exist for various NPCs, even though they'd have to be adapted to fit all body types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noollig Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Jedi wielding blasters, while possible, is weird. Other than that I'd say any class should be able to use any type of weapon, as long as they impose penalty for untrained weapons. Say a 70% accuracy drop while wielding a weapon that isn't native to your class. So you could have the cosmetic appeal but wouldn't be able to really fight with it. You might argue that a trooper should be able to use a pistol, sniper rifle, or a shotgun just as well as they can use a blaster rifle... but then you bring too much reality into a game that must be balanced. Really, a rifle should have more than a pistol, but doesn't. A sniper rifle definitely should have twice the range of a blaster rifle, too. There are too many reasons that wouldn't work though. Allow someone to hold a weapon as a stat stick or for cosmetics... sure. Changing the mechanics of the game to allow the differences in weapon power and such is polish for much later on. I personally would much rather be able to preview a weapon on my character before being able to switch from a pistol to a knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It's a choice that adds to our identification with our characters, plain and simple. And one that has zero in game impact. I'd be all for it if it were fairly quick and easy to do. You could likely do it fairly quickly and easily for the gun classes, because there's only so many ways you can hold and fire a gun. For lightsabers on the other hand, you're talking about 10's if not 100 thousand dollars worth of new animations. You can't simply reuse old animations because there are quite simply not enough of them. You might be able to use some of the Sentinels animations for two sabers, but there's like 5 double bladed saber attacks in the game, and that means making enough new animations to cover every power the Guardian and Sentinel have for that. Plus they won't reuse those animations across factions, because they already have different looking ones for both sides. So quite simply, you want them to spend who knows how much money and put more content on hold, so you can look a bit different then you do now. Because that will be the only impact on the game, a minor cosmetic change, for a huge amount of resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJMazz Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 And one that has zero in game impact. I'd be all for it if it were fairly quick and easy to do. You could likely do it fairly quickly and easily for the gun classes, because there's only so many ways you can hold and fire a gun. For lightsabers on the other hand, you're talking about 10's if not 100 thousand dollars worth of new animations. You can't simply reuse old animations because there are quite simply not enough of them. You might be able to use some of the Sentinels animations for two sabers, but there's like 5 double bladed saber attacks in the game, and that means making enough new animations to cover every power the Guardian and Sentinel have for that. Plus they won't reuse those animations across factions, because they already have different looking ones for both sides. So quite simply, you want them to spend who knows how much money and put more content on hold, so you can look a bit different then you do now. Because that will be the only impact on the game, a minor cosmetic change, for a huge amount of resources. It's in their best interest to make the game better. People like eye-candies. Gives them subs. This means cash, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 A meaningless choice isn't really a choice. Unless the choice in weapons actually matter, then there's simply no reason to waste the resources needed to make this work. A Gunslinger doesn't do more damage then a Scoundrel because they have 2 blasters vs 1. Allowing a Bounty Hunter to use a rifle isn't going to change their DPS, or have any impact on the game in the least other then how your character looks. Giving gun classes more options could be fine, because that would require relatively few new animations if any. Allowing a Guardian to use two sabers or a double bladed saber would require two new animations for every power the guardian has, and two new ones for every power the Sentinel has, and the Shadow, and the Juggernaut, and the Marauder... Seeing how allowing a Guardian to use two sabers won't actually change anything in terms of game mechanics, it's the worse possible waste of time the Dev's could do. Well, you threw the gauntlet down with that one lol. Status Quo for the sake of it ventures nothing. If cosmetics are meaningless then why are the characters anthropomorphic? Wouldn't it be better if they were simply spheres with your name on them? That would have freed up resources to make (insert what is important to You here). So the legacy system must have made your day. also, Who sat there and designed the Bounty Hunter and said, "well he should only have pistols, ever. nothing else makes sense." That's idiotic. The only explanations I can see is: 1) Path of least resistance, I will just lazy this up, and go to lunch. 2) Preserve the Story in every way possible as the devs see it. Too much variation will dilute our vision. Variation restricted as policy at the behest of the writing team, and then implemented as design philosophy (this is omnipresent in SWTOR) 3) I'm an intern, I don't know how to do multiple animations and the other guys are at lunch. Basic things are missing here, and the apologists say, "It's not needed." Have some self respect and up your expectations. If you really don't care then I guess you will be happy no matter what, so you have nothing invested. If you are in denial, I would suggest you take a look at that. Why make excuses for a giant company that should be able to produce something superior? It's all that your doing in the end, because we both know it should have been in the game from the beginning. The MMO before this had it, and the one after it will too. One of these things is not like the others, and that one is hemorrhaging subs at an alarming rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amendial Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I made a comment that all force users should have access to all force type abilities. I do not know of a Jedi Master who doesnt know how to force push someone, but Consulars and Inquistors cant seem to master the skill. It seems every Sith and his dog knows how to use force lightning, but for some reason Warriors cant master the skill. Jedi and Sith should be able to learn anything and then pick one or two of those abilities they want to make effective. This would open up Force users to a much greater customization of play styles, and as someone that has three 50 force users, it would be a much welcomed addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razdek Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 The thing that really bugs me was pre release they were advertising classes such as the BH using vibroswords techblades etc, only to find out that was companions. They lied to us. The current weopon restrictions are outrageous. Granted there would have to be some overall changes to many of the trees to accommodate other weapons. But it needs to be done. Im a shieldtech PT.. A tank... I am close up and personal with the mobs i am fighting as my biggest hitter is probably rocket punch. Yet i wield a pistol? Gimme a techblade please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I made a comment that all force users should have access to all force type abilities. I do not know of a Jedi Master who doesnt know how to force push someone, but Consulars and Inquistors cant seem to master the skill. It seems every Sith and his dog knows how to use force lightning, but for some reason Warriors cant master the skill. Jedi and Sith should be able to learn anything and then pick one or two of those abilities they want to make effective. This would open up Force users to a much greater customization of play styles, and as someone that has three 50 force users, it would be a much welcomed addition. This is so true, every game picks and chooses how the Jedi/Sith will be, and you only get a handful of the iconic actions they are capable of using in lore/movies. This is a better system that you propose. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistress_Ivi Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Nice to see some support. As to what someone said about Animations... guess what, if the skill is *not* channeled in some way, you don't need to link a unique animation to it. As for any and all gun animations, we have enough ranged specs to allow for any animation to be used by another ranged class. I just find it strange, my trooper, seems to act pretty much like a bounty-hunter in cutscenes... would it *really* be that hard to allow a trooper to use the pistol the entire time? The same applies to Smugglers and Bounty Hunters, why couldn't someone who's not trained, a civilian, use a rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattgyver Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Nice to see some support. As to what someone said about Animations... guess what, if the skill is *not* channeled in some way, you don't need to link a unique animation to it. As for any and all gun animations, we have enough ranged specs to allow for any animation to be used by another ranged class. I just find it strange, my trooper, seems to act pretty much like a bounty-hunter in cutscenes... would it *really* be that hard to allow a trooper to use the pistol the entire time? The same applies to Smugglers and Bounty Hunters, why couldn't someone who's not trained, a civilian, use a rifle? Carbines are equated with rifles in this game, and Boba Fett is famous for using a carbine. The weapons are not special in that they would require special training beyond what is germane to the character classes. The trooper gets no bonus for spending time at the range anyway so it's a moot point. Melee weapons should be viable options as well for Troopers, Agents, Smugglers, and Bounty Hunters. There are few classes in this game, they should try to get maximum mileage from those classes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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