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Jedi Master/Fleet Admiral


Darth_Halford

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So, I'm rolling through on my Trooper, and just met Master Doreck or whoever he is.

 

I was struck with a ball of hail to the brain when, in the conversation, I find that a Jedi Master is also a Fleet Admiral in the Republic Navy....

 

This doesn't make an ounce of sense to me. The Last time we had Jedi in the military, it was during the Mandalorian Wars (and we remember how that turned out).

 

Seriously, to be a Fleet Admiral, he would have to have been in the military long before the war with the empire broke out...and the Jedi Order isn't fond of such ideas.

 

I'm hoping that someone with more knowledge into this character can help me out here, cause I'm just seeing this in relation to the Fleet Admirals of the Second World War, which doesn't seem to work well.

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It's just a temporary command given to him because of the force influenced nature of the mission. Kind of like Vandar stood with the Admiral to advise them, except this time he's in charge of the mission.

 

Same thing with Bastila, she took command of the Endar Spire for all intents and purposes but only for the single mission.

 

Jedi and Sith don't become actual military leaders until some time later when the Galactic Republic falls.

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Obi-Wan was a General and was often called General Kenobi as well as Master. It's not unheard of for Jedi to have military ranks as well. On Tython there's actually a quest you do (as both the JK and JC) to see if you would qualify to lead Republic troops in a military sense.

 

I don't see it as strange.

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Well, my theory is a little different: I think ha was already a Jedi master before the last war. During the war he showed in some situation that he was very competent in leading a fleet so they gave him a military command and made him Admiral and later Fleet Admiral.

 

I think in the Sith Warrior story you also encounter a Jedi General. So Jedi in military positions seem to be not that uncommon in this era, but the majority of the military leaders are still non Force users.

 

Btw why does a Fleet officer need to have held a gun? He is standing around on the bridge, giving orders.

And he also has a lightsaber.

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that is a good catch on "General Kenobi", though to be honest i'm not a big fan of that either.:jawa_confused:

 

As per the gun question, any "basic training" for military is going to involve some kind of firearms training.

 

I'm sure Star Wars land it makes perfect and absolute sense that we let pacifist space-wizards to have the top positions in the military without actual military training, but it hurts my head whenever I think about it.

 

If that kind of shenanigan happened in the United States Navy, I'd probably get an NJP and discharged out for unruly behavior.

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that is a good catch on "General Kenobi", though to be honest i'm not a big fan of that either.:jawa_confused:

 

As per the gun question, any "basic training" for military is going to involve some kind of firearms training.

 

I'm sure Star Wars land it makes perfect and absolute sense that we let pacifist space-wizards to have the top positions in the military without actual military training, but it hurts my head whenever I think about it.

 

If that kind of shenanigan happened in the United States Navy, I'd probably get an NJP and discharged out for unruly behavior.

 

The jedi are also a knights. Knights as in: combat trained. They have learned how to use a lightsaber in firefights and can deflect blasterbolts while they aproach their opponent until they are close enough to cut his head off.

 

And the Jedi are not exactly pacifists. They are guardians of peace and peace loving, yes. But if it comes to fight, they are very capable. The avarege Jedi has spent far more time with practicing with his lightsaber than the avarege soldier has spent practicing with blaster rifles.

 

Maybe you could compare it with a Marine becoming an Admiral in the Navy. i don't know if this has ever happen in reality, but in star wars they are more flexible about that. (And more flexible about weapons.)

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As per the gun question, any "basic training" for military is going to involve some kind of firearms training.

 

Not really no. Not when they're already have proven to have mastered the light saber. Why in the world would they want a Jedi to learn to fire a blaster when there is no need for them to use one. It's not like a blaster is somehow superior to a Lightsaber, or that a Jedi actually needs to use one.

 

It's also not like your typical Fleet Admiral is going to spend much time in a firefight.

 

pacifist space-wizard.

 

No Jedi is a pacifist, they may prefer peace but every single one is trained for war. For example, it's typical that a padawan can't be considered a full fledged Knight until they faced the dark side, which almost always means facing a Dark Jed/Sith in combat.

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No Jedi is a pacifist, they may prefer peace but every single one is trained for war. For example, it's typical that a padawan can't be considered a full fledged Knight until they faced the dark side, which almost always means facing a Dark Jed/Sith in combat.

 

That seems a little exaggerated, though. You would need lots of Dark Jedi to test all the padawans. What do you do in peace times? No, I think facing a Dark Jedi/Sith can replace the normal trails, but it can never be considered a normal trail.

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No, I think facing a Dark Jedi/Sith can replace the normal trails, but it can never be considered a normal trail.

 

Perhaps, but lots of the stories involve a Jedi facing some sort of Dark Side event or person and that seems like part of the requirement to become a Knight.

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Perhaps, but lots of the stories involve a Jedi facing some sort of Dark Side event or person and that seems like part of the requirement to become a Knight.

 

Facing the Dark Side somehow of course. But in most cases it will probably be more like: meditating on some dark side teachings, visiting a dark side place or maybe studying a dark side holocron. I doubt the Jedi keep some imprisoned darksiders in their locker because they plan their trails like this.

There are some instances were "the Force guides the training" (=things don't go as planned) and this is where these things happen normally, I guess.

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and this is where these things happen normally, I guess.

 

Perhaps, but it seems for most Jedi, they end up facing some sort of Dark Jedi early on. But that might just be a indication of the Force having grander plans for them then a typical Jedi.

 

Either way, the point is, that Jedi are not in by any stretch of the imagination pacifists. They are all trained for combat and expected to fight when the time comes.

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And the Jedi are not exactly pacifists. They are guardians of peace and peace loving, yes. But if it comes to fight, they are very capable. The avarege Jedi has spent far more time with practicing with his lightsaber than the avarege soldier has spent practicing with blaster rifles.

Yes, but does the code not prohibit taking sides in, or participating in a war?

 

Maybe you could compare it with a Marine becoming an Admiral in the Navy. i don't know if this has ever happen in reality, but in star wars they are more flexible about that. (And more flexible about weapons.)

There are cases in joint-ops where a General in the Marine Corps. may be in charge of Navy, Army, or Air Force personnel, but in order to be an Admiral, you have to be in the Navy. And there's only ever been five Fleet Admirals, all within the same two-year period (1944-1945)

 

Not really no. Not when they're already have proven to have mastered the light saber. Why in the world would they want a Jedi to learn to fire a blaster when there is no need for them to use one. It's not like a blaster is somehow superior to a Lightsaber, or that a Jedi actually needs to use one.
To improve combat effectiveness and unit cohesion. It doesn't hurt to have the additional, standardized training that any other soldier recieves. Basic weapons handling and firing takes only a few days, additional training to improve skill would come as needed, just as it does now.

 

It's also not like your typical Fleet Admiral is going to spend much time in a firefight.
True, but you still learn the skills. Wether you ever need to use it or not, the point stands that you have it if you do.
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jedi are granted the title general during wartime and pasawans commander.

as for fleet admiral remmember the dude is a yoda species he could allready be like 400 years old.

 

A little off topic: In this case Oteg's age can be almost figured out. When the smuggler says something to him, he says:

 

"Ah, the voice of youth. It has been 200 years now since I was in your age."

 

We don't know how long the youth for his species is. But him being between 200 and 300 years seems about right.

 

So as I said, I think he already was a Jedi Master when the Sith returned and became Fleet Admiral sometime during the last war.

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jedi are granted the title general during wartime and pasawans commander.

as for fleet admiral remmember the dude is a yoda species he could allready be like 400 years old.

 

That would mean that he was alive during the Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Civil War, and following Dark Wars when the Sith Triumverate killed all Jedi but the Exile. Hell, he'd have even been a hundred at that point, so he probably would have been as noted as Vandar Tokare was at the time. In short, unlikely.

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Yes, but does the code not prohibit taking sides in, or participating in a war?

 

No, there's nothing in the Jedi code that prevents them from taking side in a war. In fact in every war that we know of the Jedi have taken sides at one point or another.

 

And there's only ever been five Fleet Admirals, all within the same two-year period (1944-1945)

 

Don't try to use real life ranks and stats when you're talking about The Old Republic, because what we do or did simply doesn't mater in the least.

 

It doesn't hurt to have the additional, standardized training that any other soldier recieves.

 

It would also be completely worthless to train a Jedi how to use a blaster when they would be reducing their abilities if they use one. They know full well the effective ranges and such of blasters, but being trained to use one would accomplish nothing. It would be no different then training a modern day solider how to fight with a broad sword.

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Yes, but does the code not prohibit taking sides in, or participating in a war?

 

Absolutly not. The Jedi have sworne loyalty to the republic. They serve the republic, it is something your master tells you early in your storyline.

They also are allowed to "use the force for defense", meaning defend themselves or others. They are allowed to participate in war if they are not the attacker.

 

There are cases in joint-ops where a General in the Marine Corps. may be in charge of Navy, Army, or Air Force personnel, but in order to be an Admiral, you have to be in the Navy. And there's only ever been five Fleet Admirals, all within the same two-year period (1944-1945).

 

Yeah, as I said, the ranks are probably a little more flexible in Star Wars. But Oteg either was set free from his Jedi duties to serve as a Fleet Admiral or he was a joint-ops commander and just got all the fitting titles.

I also think Fleet Admirals in Star Wars are far more commen than in the Navy. We have a republic that spans hundreds or even thousands of star systems, each like at least a nation on its own.

 

Edit: Even here on earth, Fleet Admiral/Admiral of the Fleet is a normal rank in some some countries' navy. Russia for example.

 

To improve combat effectiveness and unit cohesion. It doesn't hurt to have the additional, standardized training that any other soldier recieves. Basic weapons handling and firing takes only a few days, additional training to improve skill would come as needed, just as it does now.

 

True, but you still learn the skills. Wether you ever need to use it or not, the point stands that you have it if you do.

 

In Episode III Obi-Wan shoots General Grievous. So maybe he had this basic blaster training. It could be part of the Jedi training or it could be some kind of course offered by the military for the Jedi who are sent into the war.

Edited by Maaruin
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We don't know how long the youth for his species is. But him being between 200 and 300 years seems about right.

 

That would put his birth somewhere between 3,840 and 3,940 BBY, so he would of been born sometime just after the end of Old Sith Wars. He would of had to been a Jedi Master in the time of the Great Galactic War.

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Absolutly not. The Jedi have sworne loyalty to the republic. They serve the republic, it is something your master tells you early in your storyline.

They also are allowed to "use the force for defense", meaning defend themselves or others. They are allowed to participate in war if they are not the attacker.

Hmmm...I thought "I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you" and "we can't use our powers to help her (The Queen)" was based around the Jedi Code.

 

I also think Fleet Admirals in Star Wars are far more commen than in the Navy. We have a republic that spans hundreds or even thousands of star systems, each like at least a nation on its own.

 

Edit: Even here on earth, Fleet Admiral/Admiral of the Fleet is a normal rank in some some countries' navy. Russia for example.

Oh I have absolutly no doubt that they need more Fleet Admirals than we do. Makes perfect sense. However, there is still the need for Fleet Admirals to have actually gone through military training.

 

that position is more-so equivalent to the Chief of Navy Operations than it is to a Fleet Admiral Position. That said, Russia is interesting in that each fleet (Northern Fleet, Pacific Fleet, Black Sea Fleet, and the Baltic Sea Fleet) has different sets of platforms, doctrines, and so-on. For example, the Baltic Fleet is mostly the test-bed for Russia's new platforms, as well as collection operations on NATO.

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Hmmm...I thought "I can only protect you, I can't fight a war for you"

 

Yes the two Jedi were not going to fight a whole army for her at that time... Nothing to do with the code, and everything to do with superior numbers.

 

Again, the Jedi are always fighting in wars. The Great Galactic war, all the Sith wars, ect...

 

However, there is still the need for Fleet Admirals to have actually gone through military training.

 

And it's completely logical to assume that the training that Jedi go though might very well count as military training. In the game I've run into plenty of solders who have no issue with taking orders from my Jedi. I even took a test on Typhon to see if I was qualified to lead troops or not.

 

It's also possible that he went though some sort of war collage at some point in his life. If he's 200-300 years old, then taking off 4 or so years to study fleet maneuvers and command isn't exactly a huge chunk of his life.

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And it's completely logical to assume that the training that Jedi go though might very well count as military training. In the game I've run into plenty of solders who have no issue with taking orders from my Jedi. I even took a test on Typhon to see if I was qualified to lead troops or not.

I don't see the correlation personally. To get a Surface Warfare pin (which any officer aspiring to be command-at-sea needs), you need to understand engineering, damage control, electronic systems, and all of the other aspects of a ship. Than there's understanding tactics, platform abilities and specifications, ability to keep unit morale up, and so on.

Battle Meditation can only get you so far.

 

It's also possible that he went though some sort of war collage at some point in his life. If he's 200-300 years old, then taking off 4 or so years to study fleet maneuvers and command isn't exactly a huge chunk of his life

Would the Jedi Order really accept that though?

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Like others have said, when the Jedi's join the fight in a war, they're given positions of command. Knights and Masters generally becomes Generals. Not every jedi is given the titles and responsibilities of a general or commander, and some even turn the title down. In case you haven't played Knight of the Old Republic 2, the main character is called 'General' by Bao-dur.

 

Now, granted there is a difference between being a general, and being a fleet admiral, but I don't see that it should be unreasonable for a jedi to being given such a high command when for 400 years (Between 1,400 bby - 1000 bby) all the Supreme Chancellors of the Republic were Jedis.

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I think it's more a case of entitlement. A Jedi Master or a Sith Lord are naturally experts at warfare due to their experience, and the massive amount of physical & mental training they have recieved.

 

I guess it can be said that a Sith or Jedi are not the best choice for a military position of that stature, but are well suited to it. Also the fact that in both the Republic and Empire, they are held in such high regard they (or their factions) believe, they are entitled to it :)

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I get the whole "Navy" thing but the war and most battles are in Space, right? In a galaxy far far away... with two governing entities. It's fair to say the Republic Council/Emperor can make what ever military rules they desire. If a Jedi can successfully command an entire Fleet why not?
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