Sith Warriors are just a Weak tool ?

[Jenzali]

Most of the "yes, master" dialogue options also said [Lie] next to them so I thought they were well-placed regardless of your roleplaying position.

[Charell]

im asking some info from people who more into these Story Lores and stuff

 

Are Sith warriors Only a Tool for the Unlimited Power wielder Inquisitors ?

my main is a light sided Sith Sorc i Realy Like The story Power collecting Death Sithlords ghosts Draining etc to be the strongest and the way How the Inquisitor want to Change the WHOLE empire.

 

i like the Abilities too Etc etc.

i just dont like the mechanic 's ( Forced to have a Tanking Companion bicous you survival is pathetic WHERE is the Unlimited power ? ) and i REALY love if my char feels like its unkilable.

 

So

I started to play a Sith jugg

only around lvl 24

 

im folowing the story and it feels like im just a Mindles warrior for the Inq ?

No mysteries no Hiden powers just go and kill.

 

and in the story of Inquisitor i saw they have powers that can basicaly rip your Soul apart by just raising his hand.

what a Warrior have ? a Lightsaber ?

my Sorc is lvl 36

i Realy have a hard time choosing a main

 

i mostly like the playstile of the jugg and im leaning to it to be my main instead but EVERY time i remember these stuff that i just writed down i look on my char like a weakling and totaly and i mean TOTALY sets me of to play it.

 

is there some HIDEN story somewhere or something that shows that they CAN be REALY powerfull not just a tool that can die by an INQ that just raised his hand to destroy his soul ???

 

They are a tool if you go Dark Side... If you go light you try to reform the empire with your own with order. Deffinitly not a tool if you go Light

[lokdron]

Most of the "yes, master" dialogue options also said [Lie] next to them so I thought they were well-placed regardless of your roleplaying position.

 

Really? I never seen that I mean sure you can role play that you are lying but I never saw the lie annotation next to the "Yes master" conversation options.

[Maaruin]

Really? I never seen that I mean sure you can role play that you are lying but I never saw the lie annotation next to the "Yes master" conversation options.

 

Did you play LS? I think if you are DS you don't have to lie to Baras.

 

I definitly recall the "[Lie] I killed Nomen Karr." - Option.

 

Edit: I could imagine a Dark Side Warrior getting away with trolling his master because: "He is a very mighty tool, even if he doesn't know how to show respect." But I can't imagine a LS warrior getting away with it.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Maaruin

[Ranadiel_Marius]

Edit: I could imagine a Dark Side Warrior getting away with trolling his master because: "He is a very mighty tool, even if he doesn't know how to show respect." But I can't imagine a LS warrior getting away with it.

 

It isn't like Baras always hates it when you make a LS decision. Like I remember on Dromuund Kaas, at Grathan's estate I made the LS decision to spare the child and kill Grathan. When I reported in to Darth Chubaras I told him the glory of the FTB that followed and it made his day. Which was hilarious to me as my SW basically ended up with a complete victory by undermining Baras's authority, got a potential ally(who never does anything), got a FTB, and brightented the day of Lord Tubbums.

 

 

On a more spoilery note, it is stated at one point that Baras knew he was going to take you as his apprentice before he even met you. The implication being that he got some info on you from the Dark Side Entity and likely believed that your assistance was necessary for his planned ascension. So he likely keeps LS SWs who troll him around because he knows that he needs their services and they will continue to do them for the time being. He probably enjoys betraying the troll LS SWs more though.

 

Edited May 30, 2012 by Ranadiel_Marius

[Kframe]

Ok at what point does the SW Plot to overthrough baras become evident? Becuase im just up to the Gratham estate thing, at lvl 13 and so far i havnt seen any indication of plotting. I tried to spare that Rival i had on Koriban, but i must have screwed up the dialog, becuase i told him it didnt need to end with death and he said he wont accept anything less, and i then end up killing him...

 

So ya, with out spoilering, help me with the whole plottting thing, so far i have not seen it. Just me going to baras and being told to go do menial ****..

[Chanez]

its all about the respect you recieve, and demand i find pure strength more appealing than the cheating tactics inquisitors have, inquisitors have to gain respect and power, warriors are born with both.

 

One is a slim dagger placed precisely between the ribs of a target or a sharp scalpel surgically manipulating events from a distance. The other is a hammer and has the subtlety of 2 kilos of solid iron at the end of a long piece of wood.

Yeah kind of a shame that the SI is the 2 kilos of solid iron though.

 

Such a shame, how they have to ridcule the SI more than they had too dont you think?

 

Although i do just want to say to some of the "misguided' players by saying the sith warrior has NO POLTICAL power, no one serves him, and if they do its for like 5 minutes than they pretend everythings normal and never see the warrior again. the

entire empire

serves the inquisitor however, even if he has to be in a certain group to do it.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Chanez

[Jenzali]

Ok at what point does the SW Plot to overthrough baras become evident? Becuase im just up to the Gratham estate thing, at lvl 13 and so far i havnt seen any indication of plotting. I tried to spare that Rival i had on Koriban, but i must have screwed up the dialog, becuase i told him it didnt need to end with death and he said he wont accept anything less, and i then end up killing him...

 

So ya, with out spoilering, help me with the whole plottting thing, so far i have not seen it. Just me going to baras and being told to go do menial ****..

 

Patience, young acolyte. You can't overthrow your master at level 13. Stick through it, it only gets better and better as you approach level 50.

[Charell]

Really? I never seen that I mean sure you can role play that you are lying but I never saw the lie annotation next to the "Yes master" conversation options.

 

i played light and there were a lot of lie options, and twistings of the truth, and sarcasm.

[Captain_Zone]

I had the impresson for light side warriors this "Yes, my lord" fits much better. Baras thinks of you as his best apprentice really respect him, but he knows nothing of your secret agenda.

 

Of course, in this game you know Baras won't kill you for trolling him and being light side. But doesn't it get unrealistic some times?

 

Making LS decisions comes in with Trolling Darth Cartman. He can't argue with the results, which are usually more tactically sound than the DS options. Why just execute prisoners? Why not trade them for Imperial POWs instead? Also, he tends to see it as you being extremely devious, and approves, since his own mind thinks that way.

[Ranadiel_Marius]

Ok at what point does the SW Plot to overthrough baras become evident? Becuase im just up to the Gratham estate thing, at lvl 13 and so far i havnt seen any indication of plotting. I tried to spare that Rival i had on Koriban, but i must have screwed up the dialog, becuase i told him it didnt need to end with death and he said he wont accept anything less, and i then end up killing him...

 

So ya, with out spoilering, help me with the whole plottting thing, so far i have not seen it. Just me going to baras and being told to go do menial ****..

 

It would probably be more accurate to say that the SW is just building himself a power base of followers and allies in the early stages of the game and not really plotting a direct overthrow. As for specifics:

 

On Korriban the first act of secret insubordination comes earlier than the rival instance. The person that you can recruit to your side is:

 

Overseer Tremel. And while he isn't particularly useful he is a nice trophy to show that you have been secretly giving Baras the middle finger since first meeting him.

 

 

On Kaas, you get your first real opportunity to make an alliance although I won't spoil who the alliance is with or how you get it, but it is there.

 

And then there are more opportunities throughout the game although perhaps not on every planet.

[Pythoris]

IMO the Sith Warrior was a generic Darth Vader, knowing some manipulation skills and being a huge ball of rage and fury. The Sith Inquisitor seemed to have to use his head more often than not, and even his very powers are more force based while the powers of a SW are more about the lightsaber. He's also more into knowledge than the SW, and knowledge itself is was fuels true power.

 

Also, circumstances would go to prove that the SI is actually stronger. The SW came from a lineage of force users and was respected and given opportunities to train since childhood from the get-go. The SI grew up until adulthood as a slave, and had to learn on the fly how to manipulate and become powerful just to survive. The way I see it, the SI and SW were thrown out to sea and told to get to shore, but the SW was thrown out waaay closer to shore and was given a raft, while the SI was thrown out miles behind and told to swim. And had a weight tied to his leg. Both sith made it to a high position of power in the end, but the SI had to go through a LOT more to get it, and beat odds that were WAY more stacked against him. So, in my opinion, the SI is actually stronger. To get where he was with no prior training and so many powerful enemies within the empire who wanted him dead from the start. I don't think the SW would have made it in the same position.

 

Of course, despite all this, my opinion is that the SW is not just a tool. His former master learned the hard way at the end, make him angry enough and he will surprise you. The SW is more into brute strength and violence, but he can think and can manipulate, and given the opportunity he will. Oh, and this is all just my humble $0.02. I played both stories and this is what I believe.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Pythoris

[Katahn]

I like the gameplay of the SI but honestly Bioware could have done a much better job conveying the scheming and plotting of its archetype in the films: Palpatine. The actual story makes a lot of sense for a more thuggish assassin - blundering around and being told what needs to be done fits the Darth Maul concept much more squarely than it does Palpatine. Of course my SI (first one anyway) was an assassin so I am biased.

 

The SW definitely fits the entire concept of Vader from the get-go. Chasing down and converting the Padawan has echos of Darth Vader/Luke Skywalker. Acting as the enforcer that utterly demolishes the enemies of his master, inspiring fear and leaving destruction in his wake. Yet at the same time you have these options to build your powerbase and to ironically play more of the plotter than the SI ever was able to are nice to see.

[peacelovebacon]

As far as both classes go am i the only one who finds it slightly ironic that the sith warrior does more manipulating politically and otherwise then the supposed "manipulator" the sith inquisitor

[lokdron]

As far as both classes go am i the only one who finds it slightly ironic that the sith warrior does more manipulating politically and otherwise then the supposed "manipulator" the sith inquisitor

 

Exactly you don't know how many times my darkside SW has manipulated people. The SI does not manipulate people and there is no political manipulations either in the story what so over. The class story causes the SI IQ to go down and it goes up while doing planet questlines.

 

In the SI story your like the boss who makes the minions come up with all the plans and ideas and you just roll with it. The SI story is nothing like how it was advertised before release I was so disappointed when I played the SI. With the sith warrior I was like *** at how many options they have when dealing with certain situations

 

In the SW story you can mind screw jedi and make them fall to the dark side, manipulate people to your own ends make a jedi fall to the dark side and become your apprentice(I was pissed off with ashara and angry) Its like the sith warrior story has bits from darth vader and darth sidious. Plus tatooine was awesome with sith warrior the oasis scene was awesome.

 

While the SI? I don't know what the SI is about I just force lightninged my way to the dark council seat. Darth sidious turns in his grave when he is compared to the SI he would be more approving of the SW. The sad fact is I prefer SI gameplay over the SW but in terms of story the SW got the SI beat in terms of being a sith and the story in general it tramples the SI into the ground.

[magicallypuzzled]

IMO the Sith Warrior was a generic Darth Vader, knowing some manipulation skills and being a huge ball of rage and fury. The Sith Inquisitor seemed to have to use his head more often than not, and even his very powers are more force based while the powers of a SW are more about the lightsaber. He's also more into knowledge than the SW, and knowledge itself is was fuels true power.

 

Also, circumstances would go to prove that the SI is actually stronger. The SW came from a lineage of force users and was respected and given opportunities to train since childhood from the get-go. The SI grew up until adulthood as a slave, and had to learn on the fly how to manipulate and become powerful just to survive. The way I see it, the SI and SW were thrown out to sea and told to get to shore, but the SW was thrown out waaay closer to shore and was given a raft, while the SI was thrown out miles behind and told to swim. And had a weight tied to his leg. Both sith made it to a high position of power in the end, but the SI had to go through a LOT more to get it, and beat odds that were WAY more stacked against him. So, in my opinion, the SI is actually stronger. To get where he was with no prior training and so many powerful enemies within the empire who wanted him dead from the start. I don't think the SW would have made it in the same position.

 

Of course, despite all this, my opinion is that the SW is not just a tool. His former master learned the hard way at the end, make him angry enough and he will surprise you. The SW is more into brute strength and violence, but he can think and can manipulate, and given the opportunity he will. Oh, and this is all just my humble $0.02. I played both stories and this is what I believe.

 

I agree completely with this and i love your sig as well.

[TheBetty]

 

Through the SW storyline you learn that the Dark Council has been running with little to no oversight from the Emporer allowing Baras to claim he is the voice. You are pretty much the first person the Emporer (as the wrath) makes direct contact with. You execute the Emporer's will whatever it may be and the DC runs the day to day operations of the Empire.

 

 

 

The SW is the 2nd highest Sith in the Empire with full immunity to Political Interference. The Dark Council is the highest political body, with full authority over the operations of the Empire.

[epicfear]

The sith inquisitor is a weakling who has dumb luck and others plotting for him.

 

The sith warrior is a wrecking ball who specializes in lightsaber-ing people, monsters, droids, and plots in the face to death.

 

I much prefer the... direct approach.

[Rayla_Felana]

The Inquisitor goes from being a slave, to a lord then to an outlaw being hunted by a Dark Council member after her own master screws her over, to becoming a Dark Council Member, with her own powerbase a fleet with weaponry enough to make opposing fleets literally vanish, won a Kaggath with barely any of her own powerbase, has the power of five force ghosts and is preparing to become the dominant councillor with Sith power that only the Emperor could rival.

 

The Warrior gets special lifelong treatment, kills a bunch of Jedi and starts a war, ends up becoming a replacement for Scourge as his point-n-kill and is completely oblivious to the fact the Emperor wants to devour him one day.

 

I know which sounds more impressive to me.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Stradlin]

Sith Warrior's class story is only one I've played so far that can actually be called a good, satisfying story that stands on it's own feet.

 

Unlike..say, Inq. storyline, Warrior's is an intact and whole piece of fiction; it doesn't require some decade long horribad expanded Universe book studies til you manage to bait yourself into impression that something interesting is actually happening.

 

Sith Warrior's storyline is about PEOPLE and character development between the said people. When we keep in mind how precisely and literally 100% of TOR's storytelling consists of two talking heads(=PEOPLE) talking and spinning them dialogue wheels, this actually makes pretty much sense to have the stories being about people.

 

I find it infinitely unsatisfying when class story turns out to be stuff like chasing across 5 planets for some Ancient Derp Cubes. (=STwo thirds of the game for Sith Inq, Jedi Knight)

[Rayla_Felana]

Sith Warrior's class story is only one I've played so far that can actually be called a good, satisfying story that stands on it's own feet.

 

Unlike..say, Inq. storyline, Warrior's is an intact and whole piece of fiction; it doesn't require some decade long horribad expanded Universe book studies til you manage to bait yourself into impression that something interesting is actually happening.

 

Sith Warrior's storyline is about PEOPLE and character development between the said people. When we keep in mind how precisely and literally 100% of TOR's storytelling consists of two talking heads(=PEOPLE) talking and spinning them dialogue wheels, this actually makes pretty much sense to have the stories being about people.

 

I find it infinitely unsatisfying when class story turns out to be stuff like chasing across 5 planets for some Ancient Derp Cubes. (=STwo thirds of the game for Sith Inq, Jedi Knight)

 

Star Wars EU, you're doing it wrong.

 

Just because you don't like the EU doesn't make the SI bad, not at all, in-fact it's the second deepest lore-friendly class in the game.

[Stradlin]

Star Wars EU, you're doing it wrong.

 

Just because you don't like the EU doesn't make the SI bad, not at all, in-fact it's the second deepest lore-friendly class in the game.

 

See now, this is the Matrix Reloaded defense right here ;p

 

If you need 12 hours worth of Matrix Anime dvd bonus episodes, 3 years of active posting on neoisawesome.com/thereisnospoonforums and religious recriting of some long winded 20 page long philosophical pondering by some SuperFan Grand Oompaaah til you can call Matrix Reloaded a good movie, then it just doesn't stand on it's own feet. Cacth my drift?

 

No doubt, if you love the world enough to do just that, then surely you can draw enough out of all this to turn it into a good movie and a very powerful experience for you personally. It also gives awesome opportunities to get all snoby and pull infinite amount of more or less or much less educative *hmp, if you plebs only understood the real truth.." type o statements all over the net. It should NOT make it possible for you to look thineself in eyes via mirror and say " Matrix Reloaded is a good movie"

 

Video Game storyline needs to stand on it's own feet to work. It should not require 20k pages of horrible fiction to do the trick.

 

Also..I've always wondered if it is at 5k pages or 10k pages or at 15k++ pages where " er yeah so go fetch these 3 random cubes or whatever. No I wont tell you much about them. They are ANCIENT and hold GREAT POWER just go get em ffs" suddenly turns into an awesome and exiting thing to do. I can imagine how going can get good from fans POV once you have all dat sweet power going and get busy with ghost hunting. Over half of the story is told by then.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Stradlin

[Rayla_Felana]

*facepalm* everything you just said makes no sense, the storyline easily stands on it's own feet, it is just more lore centric than the other IMP classes, this does not make it inferior, on the contrary, it makes it superior for building upon the source material, that is the point of a continuity based fiction franchise.

[Stradlin]

Yeah lets start facepalming one another, Im sure that can bring only more awesome to these already grand forums;p

 

 

/ Post Picard meme facepalming

- Call the dude a lackwit who makes no sense

\ Post some other meme

 

Half of Sith Inq is all about hunting some gosh darned cubes. Nobody really gets overly exited about the cubes themselves. Nobody really goes into detail about what they are. That isn't important. Only thing what counts is that I'm a good NES game character and go all over the place gathering them one by one.

 

SWTOR has loads of cinematics going. Literally all of these cinematics consists of talking heads and spinning dialogue wheels. This reason alone makes it feel very natural to make story and driving story elements about people, not about terrible cubes that look every bit as exiting as they are. The F is up with them cubes anyhow. You don't even get them,not in any game-y sense of the word. You can't equip them, they don't show up in some proverbial trophy case or as scalps on your belt or..anything. They don't pop in your inventory, you can't manipulate them, you cant caress them lovingly. All you get is some clumsy as hell datacron picking animation and codex entry. After that whatever pseudo boss NPC bossing you around calls your cell and goes " GJ; off to another planet, we need to pick cube number 4!! " How is this rewarding in any sense of the word usually associated with rewarding players in video games?

 

Sith War story just works so much better. TOR's engine and way TOR tells it's stories greatly benefits from things being up, close and personal. When driving elements of the story are people and story itself is about people, it goes very well with cinematic engine that is all about talking heads.Also, with Sith War, there is one precious sweet rewarding moment where you achieve a significant goal in main story line it also immediately transfers into something interesting, visible and exiting in the actual game.(you know, in game-y part of the game where you actually..play a game, move with WASD and all that. ) It is mildly depressing this is something so rare in TOR that I have to be grateful for it.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Stradlin

[maxetius]

Interesting story? Sith Warrior gets it. You manipulate, connive, do Sithy things, and become the tool of the Emperor himself, like Vader.

 

More powerful in story-wise? Sith Inquisitor easily. You command a fleet, have several Moffs directly loyal to you, NONE OF YOUR COMPANIONS BETRAY YOU. You also have a superweapon, a cult, if you are light-side you have an extremely powerful Darth as your personal lackey, [due to you saving his life.] And two (two!) apprentices.

 

Not to mention that you had to find your powers in a hurry. Unlike the Sith Warrior who was chosen by an extremely powerful sith lord from the get go, and given preferential treatment, vs the Inquisitor who had to earn everything the hard way.

 

That said, the Warrior story is much, much, much better written.

Edited November 27, 2012 by maxetius