Taunts should be tied to tanking stance

[SinnedWill]

You can heal, taunt or healing debuff. All classes get one of those. Why is this an issue?

 

Taunts don't cost a resource, do they? Everything else you mentioned does.

[DarthOvertone]

Anybody else getting tired of seeing a dps specced/dps stance throwing taunts at everything in site,Tanks should only be able to taunt,the damage reduction from taunt is very big,like 30% isn't it?Guards require the tanking stance,taunts should too.

 

This actually makes perfect sense.

 

 

Thats logical, in the terms of the OP atleast. It would kill much fun and all hybrid specs though.

 

This is also true. Although such a change would be in line with the changes that Devs have implemented with these classes already. The Devs have been pushing peeps away from hybrid builds steadily for some time now.

 

 

Taunts pretty useless in PVP - there is no time for them in pvp fight. They must have duration at least 12-15 sec, rather 6 sec as now - then they will works.

 

Taunts are awesome in PvP and often make the difference in win/loss when used effectively.

[Astarica]

Taunts don't cost a resource, do they? Everything else you mentioned does.

 

Taunt/AE Taunt is resource free and off GCD but since the game is very unresponsive for the lognest time I thought they actually used a GCD because half of the time it doesn't seem to work.

[SinnedWill]

Lols. You claim focus guardians are better than focus sents, yet you aren't even sure of the 1.2 changes regarding them. So much fail.

 

Is it fail when I know from experience that rage marauders only get 1 guaranteed improved smash off on me? Compared to a rage jugg that can easily get 2 of them off on me without wasting a cooldown as vital as force camo. My marauder is carnage (hasn't been rage since long before 1.2). Immediately following 1.2, many marauders specced back to rage due to the increased smash damage change from the talent tree and yet they still weren't able to perform as well as rage juggs - even the marauders that had always been rage still performed less effectively compared to rage juggs and all of them (save 1 - who remains only because he loves its playstyle) have specced out of it on my server.

[Vodrin]

 

Take a DPS/Healer, and take a Tank/healer.. and have them fight.. I bet you 100% of the time the DPS/Healer win.

 

Dead wrong if you are talking about a tank sin/shadow and heals or a 14/27 or similar immortal/vengeance jug plus heals. Either combo beats any pure dps with heals (including a marauder/sentinel plus healer) assuming equal skill of all 4 players.

[Astarica]

I was referring to WZ's that have gone full time.

Targeted taunt CD is 15s (can net you ~10k if used against a relic/adrenaled DPS opponent or more if they're ops/scound or sniper/slingers that just used their AoE on your clustered teammates - only time I've actually gotten 10k protection in one life medal from one use of the targeted taunt was when I taunted a gunslinger doing this and he also used his big dps openers on a healer teammate). .

 

For you to get 10K protect on a single target taunt it means the guy did at least 33K damage in 6 seconds.

 

If some class is doing 33K damage in 6 seconds I think we'll all be hearing a lot more about nerfing. That's almost enough damage to kill 2 guys in 4 GCDs.

 

I have gotten 10K protect in one AE taunt but there's no way you can do it in one regular taunt.

 

Taunt is simply incapable of putting up massive numbers, nor is the point of taunt to put up massive protection numbers.

 

Let's say there are 3 DPS with identical capability in the game and nobody else was a DPS on the enemy side, and you were able to keep one taunted the entire game. You prevented 100K, which implies that DPS did 1.2 million damage. Further since there are two other like him, so you'd see a WZ with a screenshot of 1.2, 1.2, and 1.1 million damage done by 3 guys while you protect 100K. If something like this ever happened you'd definitely see the screenshot around (mostly because the 1.2 million damage will be used by someone to prove XYZ class is overpowered).

 

Even if you use your AE taunt that always caught all 3 guys, you'd still have the 3 enemies doing something like 600/600/550K. Now those numbers aren't impossible but they generally only happen in the most healer intensive games on Voidstar.

Edited May 29, 2012 by Astarica

[SinnedWill]

Taunt/AE Taunt is resource free and off GCD but since the game is very unresponsive for the lognest time I thought they actually used a GCD because half of the time it doesn't seem to work.

 

Heh, nope. They're off GCD. Though I know exactly what the issue you're referring to is - I see lots of GCD resets from skills misfiring - but this happens much more frequently when I'm tossing in off-GCD abilities while using my other abilities as normal (this includes popping relics/adrenals/medpacks while also trying to keep your normal cycles running). Until they fix this issue, they (many off-GCD abilities and even some normal instant activated abilities) will continue to misfire (and waste a GCD) with noticable frequency - though this can often be avoided with proper timing of keystrokes, I've noticed. Perhaps it's a result of lag. I also notice this a lot when I pop Berserk on my carnage marauder and spam massacre (reduces its GCD from 1.5s to 1s). It's certainly painful to see a full GCD cycle get wasted without even activating things like this (particularly in "oh crap" situations).

[Astarica]

Heh, nope. They're off GCD. Though I know exactly what the issue you're referring to is - I see lots of GCD resets from skills misfiring - but this happens much more frequently when I'm tossing in off-GCD abilities while using my other abilities as normal (this includes popping relics/adrenals/medpacks while also trying to keep your normal cycles running). Until they fix this issue, they (many off-GCD abilities and even some normal instant activated abilities) will continue to misfire (and waste a GCD) with noticable frequency - though this can often be avoided with proper timing of keystrokes, I've noticed. Perhaps it's a result of lag. I also notice this a lot when I pop Berserk on my carnage marauder and spam massacre (reduces its GCD from 1.5s to 1s). It's certainly painful to see a full GCD cycle get wasted without even activating things like this (particularly in "oh crap" situations).

 

I find it easier to just think of every ability as on GCD, even when they're off GCD because most of the time hitting 3 off GCD ability at the same time gets none of them firing for some inexplciable reason, whereas if you hit it one at a time at least something will fire. It's really infuriating to see Force Shroud not trigger (also off GCD) even though you're not controlled and then die.

[SinnedQWERTY]

Anybody else getting tired of seeing a dps specced/dps stance throwing taunts at everything in site,Tanks should only be able to taunt,the damage reduction from taunt is very big,like 30% isn't it?Guards require the tanking stance,taunts should too.

 

Agreed, can't have having an advanced class use his/her basic abilities. This of course with BW removing the ability to throw around heals for dps specced classes also. Right? If not, why should we even take you seriously...

 

A tank spec taunts and migrates dmg better and a heal spec heals better... If you are implying that players not specced this way shouldn't be allowed to use these abilities it goes both ways.

 

*IF* you bring up healers being another case .. and already very rare .. I and many other ex-healers ... that felt the whine and the nerf boot hit us because DPS couldn't time their CD's / work together.. will very much rofl on the floor at this point.

[SinnedWill]

For you to get 10K protect on a single target taunt it means the guy did at least 33K damage in 6 seconds.

 

If some class is doing 33K damage in 6 seconds I think we'll all be hearing a lot more about nerfing. That's almost enough damage to kill 2 guys in 4 GCDs.

 

I have gotten 10K protect in one AE taunt but there's no way you can do it in one regular taunt.

 

Taunt is simply incapable of putting up massive numbers, nor is the point of taunt to put up massive protection numbers.

 

Let's say there are 3 DPS with identical capability in the game and nobody else was a DPS on the enemy side, and you were able to keep one taunted the entire game. You prevented 100K, which implies that DPS did 1.2 million damage. Further since there are two other like him, so you'd see a WZ with a screenshot of 1.2, 1.2, and 1.1 million damage done by 3 guys while you protect 100K. If something like this ever happened you'd definitely see the screenshot around (mostly because the 1.2 million damage will be used by someone to prove XYZ class is overpowered).

 

Even if you use your AE taunt that always caught all 3 guys, you'd still have the 3 enemies doing something like 600/600/550K. Now those numbers aren't impossible but they generally only happen in the most healer intensive games on Voidstar.

I said I taunted a gunslinger after he finished activating his mirror to orbital strike, (he was relic/adrenal'd) and used it against clustered teammates - I assume he began his normal DPS cycle involving the mirror for sniper's explosive probe + 100% crit chance snipe buff (pre-cast) followed by the mirror to snipe (instant-cast proc obtained from cover, which he was already entrenched in), the mirror to followthrough, followed by a 1.5s activated (reduced by 1s due to snipe crit) mirror to ambush, then immediately used the mirror to takedown. That's a 6s cycle that can dish out 15k+ damage easily (would require very little alacrity to get the execution ability to fire before my taunt expired). Orbital strike alone can dish out huge damage (particularly when there are multiple targets getting hit by it - tends to do ~2.2k per target, on average, every 3 seconds to each target when relic/adrenal is popped - no maximum limit on targets). I also said this was the only time I had ever gotten the 10k protection medal from a single application of single person targeted taunt, and I did mention that he began by opening up on a healer (sorcerer healer mind you).

 

So... yeah, I'd say that's easily close to (or greater than) 33k potential damage in 6s if taunts weren't up - personally, I didn't stick around to see everything he might've done, since I went to solo guard the west door since my team had overcomitted to counter their inital overpowering rush on that east door.

 

Furthermore, final damage values wouldn't be as high as you've stated - taunt mechanics seem buggy for starters and final damages would be reduced from the values you've mentioned by the protection values (i.e. player x would've done 300k damage if player y hadn't been taunting him the entire match - player y only taunted player x throughout the match and obtained 100k protection - therefore player x's total damage was 200k for the match). And AoE taunts aren't limited to 3 people - yes, 3-4 people per AoE taunt CD is typical, but you can catch 8 if they cluster - overpowering one side at the beginning of voidstar, hutt-ball mashes in the middle/clustering around ball-carrier, 3-capping in novare coast/civil war usually causes a full zerg to one node, etc.).

 

Lastly, damage dealt while taunted seems closer to ~50% (depending on the base damage of the ability, so higher damage abilities will suffer more than lower ones) - pretty sure taunt damage reduction is applying to the base damage of the ability before expertise damage bonus factors in (at least this is what I've noticed when I'm on my carnage marauder, using gore-procced attacks against someone only to have taunt thrown on me by someone else and my target hasn't gained any bonus to damage mitigation).

[Koskilicious]

Anybody else getting tired of seeing a dps specced/dps stance throwing taunts at everything in site,Tanks should only be able to taunt,the damage reduction from taunt is very big,like 30% isn't it?Guards require the tanking stance,taunts should too.

 

I completely agree with this (coming from an Assassin/Shadow)

 

Makes perfect sense.

[Rizael]

I completely agree with this (coming from an Assassin/Shadow)

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

Can you still AOE taunt from stealth as a Sin/Shadow?

Can PT/Vanguards aoe taunt from a distance?

The only class really screwed by this would be Guardian/Juggs as their aoe taunt has no gimmick affixed to it. The other classes have ways to safely taunt and take no damage while the jugg/guard cannot do that. Not to mention that even IF a Sin/Shadow does their aoe taunt unstealthed they can pop invul'n and keep laughing. There is nothing innately difficult about using taunt, it is a simple move that most DPS spec'd tanks ignore for the most part and I am grateful for it. As far as the argument that some guy said earlier in the thread that they don't do enough dps to warrant a nerf to "taunt" has probably never been in a warzone with a PT/VG, just saying.

[Tempos]

sure, lets make dps specs even less powerful, as of now, all classes that can tank have an over average amount of players that do use the tanking spec in PvP. Taking taunt away from any dps spec will just further destroy all those specs in pvp.