Aehgo Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Anybody else getting tired of seeing a dps specced/dps stance throwing taunts at everything in site,Tanks should only be able to taunt,the damage reduction from taunt is very big,like 30% isn't it?Guards require the tanking stance,taunts should too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnashear Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Well then u would have to also make all healing abilities tied to the healing tree of there AC. It wouldn't be fair to let dps scoundrels and dps commandos off heal and not let dps shadows and guardians taunt. People are already saying they prefer off heal dps over taunt dps for premades. If you take away the taunt it would amplify that even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Well then u would have to also make all healing abilities tied to the healing tree of there AC. It wouldn't be fair to let dps scoundrels and dps commandos off heal and not let dps shadows and guardians taunt. People are already saying they prefer off heal dps over taunt dps for premades. If you take away the taunt it would amplify that even further. Thats logical, in the terms of the OP atleast. It would kill much fun and all hybrid specs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpySwe Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Well then u would have to also make all healing abilities tied to the healing tree of there AC. It wouldn't be fair to let dps scoundrels and dps commandos off heal and not let dps shadows and guardians taunt. People are already saying they prefer off heal dps over taunt dps for premades. If you take away the taunt it would amplify that even further. Frankly dps spec heals from atleast mercs/commandos suck epic ***, your better off killing your opponents instead of trying to heal an ally. So no its not a reason for not locking taunts to tank stance as dps specced tank classes can still go into tank stance and use the taunts anyway. I consider this a good change but meh, don't bother me either way tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Anybody else tired of tanks (shadows) and dps (sentinels) doing 50-100k healing per warzone ? Healers should heal not dps :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cycao Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Anybody else tired of tanks (shadows) and dps (sentinels) doing 50-100k healing per warzone ? Healers should heal not dps :eek: Madness can do as much if not more healing then a darkness/KC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orangerascal Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 This actually makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warultima Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 But then it will be wayyyy harder for us to use the Tank/Healer with guard + aoe taunt 80% mitigation super healer tricks anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastingGravy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I kind of have to agree with this. If guard is restricted to tank stances, why not taunts? Healing tied to healing specs is a completely different situation. Not only do DPS specs have far fewer heals, but their heals are far less effective. Taunts don't gain or lose any effectiveness based on spec, and they're off the global cooldown so they won't slow your DPS in the slightest like off-healing would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthshnooky Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Taunts can be tied to tanking stance when tanks are actually able to be TANKS in this game. Until they can mitigate all forms of damage effectively and get some serious use from their shields, tanks are pointless in PvP. The only thing they can do is take damage away from another target, but then they get torn down fast and hard without heals. They are no more resilient to half the damage in this game than any other class. So Taunts can be tied to Tanking stance, when Tanks can effectively Tank and survive a good deal of incoming damage (at which point, their damage output should also be quite weak). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastingGravy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Taunts can be tied to tanking stance when tanks are actually able to be TANKS in this game. Until they can mitigate all forms of damage effectively and get some serious use from their shields, tanks are pointless in PvP. The only thing they can do is take damage away from another target, but then they get torn down fast and hard without heals. They are no more resilient to half the damage in this game than any other class. So Taunts can be tied to Tanking stance, when Tanks can effectively Tank and survive a good deal of incoming damage (at which point, their damage output should also be quite weak). What game are you playing? I'm a pure vanguard tank, and nothing you said matches with my experience. Also, if you think tanks are ineffective, why would you be against making them more necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthshnooky Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 What game are you playing? I'm a pure vanguard tank, and nothing you said matches with my experience. Also, if you think tanks are ineffective, why would you be against making them more necessary? I'm not against it. I'm all for making tanks more effective, but I feel they are far too squishy. I actually started off PvP as an Immortal Jugg and I loved it -- but I quickly realized that outside of carrying the Huttball, i really wasn't as effective as a DPS taking my spot in a WZ. You can't put pressure on a target, due to lack of damage, and you're just far too squishy against too many damage types. As a tank, i felt like what i really did was harass the other team, without being a crucial part of victory. Admittedly, a tank with decent healing has the unkillable feel they should have, but i find "decent healing" to be far too rare. Perhaps that's just me, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Well then u would have to also make all healing abilities tied to the healing tree of there AC. It wouldn't be fair to let dps scoundrels and dps commandos off heal and not let dps shadows and guardians taunt. People are already saying they prefer off heal dps over taunt dps for premades. If you take away the taunt it would amplify that even further. Hybrid heal DPS is viable, but off-heals from true DPS specs aren't efficient (i.e. my madness sorc. can't spam Dark Infusion as effectively - its cast time is quicker from a heal or hybrid heal spec - and the force cost for heals would deplete my resources much too quickly). Heal values are significant, I admit, but when you factor in pushback, force management, and the loss of the better heals/heal values, off-heals from true DPS specs become terrible. Hybrid DPS/heal specs tend to have great off-healing and survivability - their DPS, is pretty insignificant, however, when compared to a pure DPS spec and they do lose some healing that a pure heal-spec has (albeit, certain hybrid specs offer much more survivability/utility - i.e. sorc/sage with bubble-mez/knockback root from middle tree - these actually tend to perform better than pure heal-specs and they can throw in a bit more dps). Hybrid DPS scounds/ops are pretty effective as well (little bit of burst dps and still mobile healing - prolly the best overall hybrid, but relies on teams with enough pure dps to hurt enemies enough for them to dish out their damage effectively). Merc/Commando hybrids tend to spec gunnery/arsenal with their healing (which makes them very effective at armor debuffing for their groups, but they deal no significant DPS on their own). I think they should force all these classes to have stances (similar to merc/commando already have), but healing stance should reduce damage dealing and damage dealing stance should reduce healing. But I agree with OP that DPS specs for classes that have taunts should either be unable to taunt or taunt values for damage reduction should be reduced to 10% or 15% instead of 30% (and they shouldn't stack with tank-specced taunt values). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnashear Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I think it's fine the way it is . Everyone who goes shadow , guardian or vanguard gets some taunts. Everyone who goes sage , scoundrel or commando gets some heals, regardless of which tree or hybrid they spec into. Take away their dps taunts and you kill there usefulness in pvp to the point were ppl won't take them in premades. When a dps single target taunts an enemy he Can reduce his allies inc dmg by 2k over 6 seconds. A dps with heals can heal the same ally for 2k with a 2 second cast heal, then dps the attacker for 4 seconds. Sounds pretty even to me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klapton Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 "Heals should be tied to healing stance." "Damage should be tied to damage stance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Anybody else getting tired of seeing a dps specced/dps stance throwing taunts at everything in site,Tanks should only be able to taunt,the damage reduction from taunt is very big,like 30% isn't it?Guards require the tanking stance,taunts should too. So what you're saying is, Only DPS classes should be able to use their utility (aka Marauder/Sniper) While Tanks/Healers cannot if they're not specced that way? Since i assume healers would no longer be able to heal unless they were in their "healing" stance. PS, no one is tired of this by the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xsorus Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) What game are you playing? I'm a pure vanguard tank, and nothing you said matches with my experience. Also, if you think tanks are ineffective, why would you be against making them more necessary? I have a full tank set for my Powertech, and i've tanked... everything he says is true... you're slightly harder to kill, But that's it... I'll use an example. Take a DPS/Healer, and take a Tank/healer.. and have them fight.. I bet you 100% of the time the DPS/Healer win. Edited May 28, 2012 by Xsorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyDragonflame Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) Taunts pretty useless in PVP - there is no time for them in pvp fight. They must have duration at least 12-15 sec, rather 6 sec as now - then they will works. Edited May 28, 2012 by TonyDragonflame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveandDieinLA Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Taunts pretty useless in PVP - there is no time for them in pvp fight. They must have duration at least 12-15 sec, rather 6 sec as now - then they will works. Taunts are amazing in PVP, they are free defensive cds for your allies on short cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlastingGravy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I have a full tank set for my Powertech, and i've tanked... everything he says is true... you're slightly harder to kill, But that's it... I'll use an example. Take a DPS/Healer, and take a Tank/healer.. and have them fight.. I bet you 100% of the time the DPS/Healer win. A full set of what exactly? I'm a couple pieces from a full set of augmented War Hero gear but I don't see how that's relevant anyway. Let's examine the hypothetical match-up you described. Even if I did half as much damage as the DPS did (which is being generous), it wouldn't matter because guard alone would split his damage in half, putting us at equal footing. Then factor in taunts, and the fact that guard also reduces damage and I could easily challenge the DPS. Unless of course he's attacking me, in which case I wouldn't be surprised if my healer could heal entirely through it. If the DPS has a taunt, that could be enough to give him the edge. Which brings us back to the actual topic at hand, that the viability of tanks is hampered by the fact that any tank capable class has no restriction on their ability to taunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashne Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) Using taunts effectively as a dps AC is a sign of a skilled player and can be a difference maker once ranked arrives. This should remain as is and provides much needed utility to the specs that can provide it. Edited May 28, 2012 by Rashne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahhmyface Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) Things are already balanced around that fact. The highest dps classes don't have taunts (eg, marauder, sniper). The lower dpsers have a bit more utility (eg, deception sin). Edited May 28, 2012 by Ahhmyface Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) Taunts pretty useless in PVP - there is no time for them in pvp fight. They must have duration at least 12-15 sec, rather 6 sec as now - then they will works. LOL you're awful, man. Try having a group of P-tech/VG's and Assassins/shadows and or Guardians/Juggs and always have 2-3 of them together. Each has a targeted taunt (short cooldown) and an AoE taunt (45s cooldown IIRC, I'm at work). Watch what happens when you normally put up 400-500k damage when you're in a warzone where you're perma-taunted - you're lucky if you can break 200k significantly. Also, the damage reduction (for anyone in expertise gear) comes out to be more than 30% - I have a feeling that taunts are reducing the base damage of your abilitie before expertise is applied (thus, expertise is giving you a less significant increase) - I notice that my marauder's damage outputs is ~45-55% of normal when a taunt is on me (depends on the base damage of the ability I'm using). Assassins/Shadows are the deadliest pack-runners due to their burst dps and both can taunt the target (so neither is vulnerable to full damage) and if they happen to be tank-specced, they can stack 5% damage debuffs (x2) with the taunt damage debuff - yeah it gets significant. Every good player is AoE taunting every CD and target-taunting a big dpser every CD. Has a HUGE impact on games - particularly when they're DPS specced (Guardians/Juggs though not bad at dps as dps specs, I just find they tend to take back-seats to DPS p-techs/VG's, and assassins/shadows of all specs - except rage specs in WZ's with clustering). Edited May 28, 2012 by SinnedWill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinnedWill Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Things are already balanced around that fact. The highest dps classes don't have taunts (eg, marauder, sniper). The lower dpsers have a bit more utility (eg, deception sin). News Flash: classes with similar dps to marauder/sentinel and sniper/gunslinger: assassins/shadows (pretty much all 3 specs), juggs/guardians (rage spec), powertech/vanguard (pyro spec - though AP spec can be nasty, its cycle time is longer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WookieBob Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 "yo mama so fat she makes a hutt look skinny!" "yo daddy fights like a protocol droid!" "Yo sista she so hairy she was adopted by a wookie!" and these should require a stance? I'd say they require more of a head start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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