STS World PVP - Hoth - Accounts threatened by GM

[kiroshei]

So where in the blog does it say "medical center" or "camping the respawn area" ? Show me. I'm not seeing it. They explicitly say "'camping' at the enemy's base", "a very frustrating experience for a number of players" and "unable to leave their base and fight back against their attackers." There's no mention whatsoever of respawn area or med center. If you want to assume they said "camping at the enemies base" because the med center is there also and in reality they actually meant the respawn area, that's your prerogative, but that's not what was stated. The rest of your post is just angry meaningless filler that doesn't actually have anything to do with my point and to be frank isn't worth addressing.

 

 

Obviously you need this spelled out for you since you can't remember it yourself and you just said it yourself even....

 

"a very frustrating experience for a number of players who are unable to leave their base and fight back against their attackers"

 

Ask yourself why was that possible? Because they would die. Hit return to medcenter and spawn in the middle of 100 imperials ganking them again.

 

Why couldn't they leave the base? The medcenter was inside the base

 

LOL I was there dude. Been here since early access and I remember those days and why those redesigns were made. Along with the 100's of threads regarding medcenter camping, etc etc. This doesnt even compare to our situation since we didnt stop anyone from leaving, regrouping & attacking us. Get it now?

 

Even then with 100's of players unable to respawn due to hours of ganking NO GM showed up and threatened action on anyone's account. Not ONE GM. Ever. Until 12 STS regrouped in Hoth to fight back a republic ops group. lol. See how retarded this is now?

Edited May 26, 2012 by kiroshei

[Darthshnooky]

So where in the blog does it say "medical center" or "camping the respawn area" ? Show me. I'm not seeing it. They explicitly say "'camping' at the enemy's base", "a very frustrating experience for a number of players" and "unable to leave their base and fight back against their attackers." There's no mention whatsoever of respawn area or med center. If you want to assume they said "camping at the enemies base" because the med center is there also and in reality they actually meant the respawn area, that's your prerogative, but that's not what was stated. The rest of your post is just angry meaningless filler that doesn't actually have anything to do with my point and to be frank isn't worth addressing.

 

I underlined it for you. The respawn was in the base, so players were unable to do anything other than die in a perpetual cycle. In the OP's scenario, the respawn is away from the action, which means players can rez and leave. In the Ilum situation, they could not do so.

[Ashania]

Think it's time someone had a memory wipe...

[Niil]

I underlined it for you. The respawn was in the base, so players were unable to do anything other than die in a perpetual cycle. In the OP's scenario, the respawn is away from the action, which means players can rez and leave. In the Ilum situation, they could not do so.

 

Since you and the above poster have the same point I'll just respond here. You can assume whatever you want about the post. It can be interpreted in multiple ways. I don't see each of those points as all inclusive to the discussion. Nor do I see that one point invalidating the rest. If you actually followed the conversation, I specifically stated (in response to someone who made the claim that Bioware already stated that base camping wasn't accepted) that the only instance I could find of referencing base camping was in that particular blog post. I then expressed that in my opinion these two situations are similar, particularly because in the OP's case, the gm left them alone the moment they left the base. If you don't agree, that's nice. I don't care. I'm not interested in your acceptance or agreement. If you can't see the similarities here, it's just your bias kicking in. Personally I don't care one way or the other.

[Darthshnooky]

Since you and the above poster have the same point I'll just respond here. You can assume whatever you want about the post. It can be interpreted in multiple ways. I don't see each of those points as all inclusive to the discussion. Nor do I see that one point invalidating the rest. If you actually followed the conversation, I specifically stated (in response to someone who made the claim that Bioware already stated that base camping wasn't accepted) that the only instance I could find of referencing base camping was in that particular blog post. I then expressed that in my opinion these two situations are similar, particularly because in the OP's case, the gm left them alone the moment they left the base. If you don't agree, that's nice. I don't care. I'm not interested in your acceptance or agreement. If you can't see the similarities here, it's just your bias kicking in. Personally I don't care one way or the other.

 

Ok, but you asked to be shown where the other argument was coming from. So we pointed it out for you. I'm not really here to argue, i already said my bit about this whole situation a page back. I was just trying to demonstrate where the "med center" stance came from -- that in the previous situation, they expressly stated that players could not leave the area. Since the med center was away from the fighting, this should not have been the situation this time.

[Niil]

Ok, but you asked to be shown where the other argument was coming from. So we pointed it out for you. I'm not really here to argue, i already said my bit about this whole situation a page back. I was just trying to demonstrate where the "med center" stance came from -- that in the previous situation, they expressly stated that players could not leave the area. Since the med center was away from the fighting, this should not have been the situation this time.

 

Actually, I asked to be shown explicitly where it states "medical center" or "camping the respawn area." Which is does not. I'm well aware of how it can be interpreted and why people read into it to mean what you think it does. It's not a complicated leap to make, but it's also not explicit in their blog post which was my point.

[Razot]

Sigh!!!!

[TyeWebb]

If you are not meant to be able to take over the other factions bases and PVP in them, Bioware needs to up the defenses of the bases and unflag people for PVP as soon as they enter the bases. In terms of the spawn camping or camping of medcenters is concerned this once again is Bioware's screw up. BTW I'm not saying the OP was spawn camping, he has said he wasn't and I'll take him at his word on that unless someone can prove otherwise. Players on PVP servers should be given an option to respawn on the fleet or their ship, or make quick travel an instant ability so it can't interrupted, there are so many ways Bioware can fix the spawn camping issue. Spawn camping can be a problem but I don't blame the players that are doing it, I more blame Bioware's bad design decisions for it happening.

 

A side story, several months ago a friend and I, on our Imps, went on a little adventure to see how many Republic cantinas we could get inside of and visit. We expected it to actually be a challenge getting into them, we were surprised to realize it was extremely easy just with the two of us to get anywhere we wanted and neither of us were stealth classes. The conclusion we came to was either BW designed it so taking over the other faction's bases was intended or if such things were not intended BW had completely failed at designing real defenses for these bases.

[nitnitjay]

Haha! This droid will certainly get fired for this. They should not act this way. Droids should be neutral. Regardless, of whom they're talking. This is just fail.

[Sickdreamz]

I bet it was just another player this stinks of the "Scruffybunny Incedent' back in my DAOC days.

Was a great /rofl then too.

[Bloodstealer]

So why not fight somewhere where there is no lowbies? Surely "real" pvpers would prefer a challenge?

 

Pretty sure the OP mentioned it was Lvl50 v Lv50 Pvp Event ... so where were the lowbies in all this...

They had recalled, re-grped ran back.. so were not camped in the base, the respawn med centre is outside so they weren't camped there either.. so I fail to understand what is being missed by people.. knowing full well it is a player event driven server otherwise there would be specific PvP objectives laid out by BW.. unless you think a PvP server means you stand around on fleet hoping for the WZ to pop....

My thought is that several Lvl 50's or maybe some lowere lvls running in a 50's pack got their ego's stunted and thought it was cool kid stuff to report something that was niether here nor there.. but like I have said until BW stands up and says otherwise.. the OP and his grp are innocent until proven guilty...

[Bloodstealer]

I do not play on a pvp server. I dont care about pvp. I AM able to read and follow the rules tho.

 

Rules maybe that you think are right.. not actually factually correct... if what the OP is saying turns out to be true, they did nothing wrong, they applied the rules correctly, and they werent ganking lowbies by his own admission... truth or lies is perhaps a grey area still but after 19 pages there is still nothing to make out that there was any infringement of the rules only one persons inability to interpret the Biowares own rules.... unless you have some proof to sway the argument and allow sentence to be drawn... No? I didnt think so.... therefore if you are able to read the rules, read the postings as well and stop making things up.

 

If however Bioware does throw out something to prove otherwise than I will be the first to say thank you and I will even apologise for calling you out for making things up... I too can read the rules and I too can interpret them in anumber of ways if required, but I don't mind admitting when I am wrong, I just choose not to make things up in order to make it feel right for me, try it, it can be the making of you.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Bloodstealer

[Frsot]

the odd thing about this said "GM" is that he is using the normal general chat, in every single mmo ive played if there was a GM involved warning people about basecamping or various pestering it would have been through a special chat channel(like system warning or something else that you couldnt turn off in those games) he used with different colour text that would have been easier to spot for everyone it involved. so from the first look it seems like someone that was tired of the commosion where he was question and used his wits to try and stop it. but however if this is actually true and it really is a GM telling people off for pvping on a pvp server...then i honestly dont know what to say, it is simply dreadful.

[kiroshei]

Actually, I asked to be shown explicitly where it states "medical center" or "camping the respawn area." Which is does not. I'm well aware of how it can be interpreted and why people read into it to mean what you think it does. It's not a complicated leap to make, but it's also not explicit in their blog post which was my point.

 

Obviously you showed up in this game AFTER ilum got removed. Clearly you werent around for the 100's of OMG WE ARE BEING VALOR EXPLOITED AT OUR MEDCENTER threads. Done trying to explain this to you since youre so blind to that time in the game despite multiple people pointing it out to you.

 

I bet it was just another player this stinks of the "Scruffybunny Incedent' back in my DAOC days.

Was a great /rofl then too.

 

Players can't have numbers in their names. Only GM's. Refer to the RP droid that was Rping like a carebear a couple weeks ago. Same deal.

 

the odd thing about this said "GM" is that he is using the normal general chat, in every single mmo ive played if there was a GM involved warning people about basecamping or various pestering it would have been through a special chat channel(like system warning or something else that you couldnt turn off in those games) he used with different colour text that would have been easier to spot for everyone it involved. so from the first look it seems like someone that was tired of the commosion where he was question and used his wits to try and stop it. but however if this is actually true and it really is a GM telling people off for pvping on a pvp server...then i honestly dont know what to say, it is simply dreadful.

 

Again. Players can't have numbers in their name. Go ahead and try to make one. Unfortunately it happened so fast, i really wish it didnt, but we were standing in front of him and he was using the CS skin you see in CS response posts. Same blue droid. Really wish i got that screenshot. Don't matter though because players can't make a name like that lol.

Edited May 26, 2012 by kiroshei

[Obie_Wan]

Wow, absolutely impressive stuff here.

 

How did monkeys like that GM and Artthen managed to keep their jobs from the purge? BioWare Austin has learned nothing as a company, they still let their carebear attitude ruin anything related to PVP in this game even when on servers where it's reasonably permitted. The only CM personnel that I can respect from this entire roster of monkeys is Eric Campbell, the rest are just freaking amateurs whom purpose seems to be destroying what good will is left in the community with whatever inane way they can think of.

 

This isn't one player going around rampaging. This is a group of organized players working together to try to force a PVP confrontation with the other faction because BioWare couldn't be bothered to make any effort to provide any in-game open world PVP content anymore. BioWare Austin claimed they keep the PVP community in mind when they built the game, but it's obvious from the design now that they've done everything they can to stifle it. So the players doing the job that these BioWare Austin monkeys wouldn't do now gets their accounts threatened? What's worst, these monkeys have no backbone to respond to the community besides pissing away even more good will by moderating them and enraging the customer base even further?

 

Honestly, the community needs to start spreading this stuff onto the gaming review and news websites. Push the immense farce that is the way how BioWare Austin handles PVP and community management into the public light so they are forced to, hopefully but there's a good chance they'll just shoot their feet even more, do what's right. That or at least we can let potential PVP oriented players know what a ridiculous farce the way BioWare Austin treats PVP content in this game and customer service in general.

 

It's stuff like what happened in-game and then the crude responses by Artthen that I stop feeling sympathy for the BioWare Austin employees who are laid off. The good will just gets bulldozed by these guys. The bad CM monkeys continues to anger the customer base. The bad coders continues to drag their feet when they have teams several times bigger than other MMO development teams and bugs persists as a result. Terrible artists continues to shove un-Star Wars-like gear down our throats despite protests. This is an absolute train wreck.

[Phidias]

I just think Bioware is inexperienced with PVP and how it works in MMO's.

 

I mean, I really think it's a lack of inexperience at work here. Obviously if they think by helping people who complain here will keep the shoe string subs they have left, they're wrong and hopefully they don't make that mistake.

 

Many guilds are watching this now and waiting for a response. I camp bases all the time. I plan to continue doing so. I plan to kill every little level 20-10-3 I see in a PVP zone, because it's a PVP server.

 

When I level, the thrill to me is being cautious, being watchful, being sneaky. If you roll on a PVP server, expect there to be level 50's on Naar Shadda camping you.

 

I want it, I want to do it and I want to camp U4-T2 or whatever the hell his name is if he is flagged in a PVP zone.

 

By helping a few people who complained like this, you've opened yourself to major MAJOR backlash. You should have told the people who complained, we have servers that are labled PVE, feel free to create a character there if you don't want to engage in PVP.

 

Simple.

 

But no, FATMAN is the only populated server so they can't say that to people, I foresee World PVP being removed entirely soon if this is their attitude.

 

And when that happens, FATMAN will lose half it's population.

[Bloodstealer]

I just think Bioware is inexperienced with PVP and how it works in MMO's.

- SNIP -

Many guilds are watching this now and waiting for a response. I camp bases all the time. I plan to continue doing so. I plan to kill every little level 20-10-3 I see in a PVP zone, because it's a PVP server.

 

ROFLMAO....

 

I am definately not moving off my nice safe PvE butterly watch server now, with you running around throwing sticks at me all the time

 

This thread almost tempted me to come out of my shell and go try my bad luck a bit more..... not now, you ruined it for me

[Sookster]

This is kind of comical and sad at the same time, and isn't it EA that supplies the GMs? Their customer support for Battlfeild 3 is pathetic, they ban people for just saying a word on the battlelog forums (which is why I NEVER post there).

 

Guess the GM's weren't given a note about pvp server rulesets.

Edited May 26, 2012 by Sookster

[Frsot]

 

 

ah my bad, i did not think of the number thing in names. and if he actually appeared like that too then it does really seem to be a "GM" or something of the sort. which just makes this complete BS on their behalf.

[sanchito]

So why not fight somewhere where there is no lowbies? Surely "real" pvpers would prefer a challenge?

 

 

The way i understand it we're not talking about an arranged fight, it's one side that wants to force the other side to fight. If they just chill in the middle of nowhere why would anyone fight them...

 

I honestly think this should be allowed on pvp server. Yes the lowbies may not be able to get to their quest givers but so what, they can still go to other quest hubs, do space missions, play wzs, whatever. It's not like they were keeping Aurek base occupied for days, then i might see an issue, which should be resolved by stronger defenses or making it a safe zone.

 

But being unable to advance in your class quest for a couple of hours is really not game breaking imo, especially after the warning you get before rolling on a pvp server.

 

just my 2 cents

Edited May 26, 2012 by sanchito

[Bloodstealer]

The way i understand it we're not talking about an arranged fight, it's one side that wants to force the other side to fight. If they just chill in the middle of nowhere why would anyone fight them...

 

I honestly think this should be allowed on pvp server. Yes the lowbies may not be able to get to their quest givers but so what, they can still go to other quest hubs, do space missions, play wzs, whatever. It's not like they were keeping Aurek base occupied for days, then i might see an issue, which should be resolved by stronger defenses or making it a safe zone.

 

But being unable to advance in your class quest for a couple of hours is really not game breaking imo, especially after the warning you get before rolling on a pvp server.

 

just my 2 cents

 

This person gets it as welll.. This non PvP PvE player agrees with you Sir

[Leggomy]

Rules maybe that you think are right.. not actually factually correct... if what the OP is saying turns out to be true, they did nothing wrong, they applied the rules correctly, and they werent ganking lowbies by his own admission... truth or lies is perhaps a grey area still but after 19 pages there is still nothing to make out that there was any infringement of the rules only one persons inability to interpret the Biowares own rules.... unless you have some proof to sway the argument and allow sentence to be drawn... No? I didnt think so.... therefore if you are able to read the rules, read the postings as well and stop making things up.

 

If however Bioware does throw out something to prove otherwise than I will be the first to say thank you and I will even apologise for calling you out for making things up... I too can read the rules and I too can interpret them in anumber of ways if required, but I don't mind admitting when I am wrong, I just choose not to make things up in order to make it feel right for me, try it, it can be the making of you.

 

Maybe (just maybe) he is telling the truth but what he is doing is still against the rules. Why would a GM pick on them knowing that he could be fired over it? I havent seen anyone from Bioware say this type of thing is acceptable. I do know that no matter what the rules state you MUST follow direction of the GM staff at all times. So not leaving when being told is also a violation. You can argue your case via emails and get clarificiation. Bringing it to the forums is simply bad form. The OP knows the GM cannot respond to his claims. Its only to rile people up.

[Obie_Wan]

I just think Bioware is inexperienced with PVP and how it works in MMO's.

 

I don't think so. I think they don't like PVP in general, and are only saying stuff like SWTOR has PVP in order to keep another niche of players subscribed. Why do I say this? Look at our open world PVP content? It's gotten no attention at all, buggy and eventually shelved. Look at the world designs? It's doesn't even encourage open world PVP at all with the exception of one or two worlds.

 

They don't provide us the open world PVP contents. Fine. Enthusiastic players decides to do BioWare Austin's job by rallying together players to provoke an open world PVP conflict and ends up being illegally threatened and stopped by the GM. It's obvious BioWare Austin has a company culture that's against PVP and it shows easily because they don't even have the professionalism to cater to all the niches. It's just like how they cater to Empire, giving them the best story, animation, game mechanics, and design aesthetics. Incredibly as it is, they actually don't care what their bias does to their customer base.

 

BioWare Austin fails because BioWare Austin only cares about making -their- game, the way -they- want, not what the community wants. There's a reason why this game is failing.

[Ratajack]

As with every other claim by people on these forums trying to appear like victims, I am confident there was something going on, maybe some griefing, some exploiting, or some hacking that warranted the GM to run in and yell at everybody.

 

This^

[Niil]

Obviously you showed up in this game AFTER ilum got removed. Clearly you werent around for the 100's of OMG WE ARE BEING VALOR EXPLOITED AT OUR MEDCENTER threads. Done trying to explain this to you since youre so blind to that time in the game despite multiple people pointing it out to you.

 

You don't seem to understand the definition of the word explicit. Explicit = Fully and clearly expressed; leaving nothing implied.. You're assessment of the statement released is based upon what is implied, not what is stated. You can argue til you're blue in the face, it won't change the fact that you're assuming. We only have their words to go on. They did not make the statement that "people were camping the medical center" nor did they make the statement "players were being spawn camped." Those are implied, but not stated explicitly. You're then arguing that because of the implied context that means that it's acceptable to base camp as long as it's not a spawn point. I'm simply saying that that assessment may or may not be valid because the underlying premise of the argument is an assumption based on implied information. At this point we don't know for certain whether or not Bioware approves of base camping in general. Lack of action on Bioware's part to other base camping incidents is not an affirmation that the behavior is acceptable, thus not warning other people is not a justification of your belief that it's acceptable. We have only these two very isolated incidents to work from, with no explicit definition of what is actually acceptable from Bioware.

 

I think it's perfectly rational to look at this situation and see that it is possible that Bioware will react to complaints from players about base camping by ejecting people from the area. I'm not asking what your personal opinion is on the matter. I'm not stating mine. I'm looking at the situation objectively and reasoning what outcomes are possible here. The first, and most obvious, possible outcome is that the gm in question was out of line. The second is that he was, in fact, upholding Bioware policy. Until we have a response from Bioware on the matter we won't know. But I wouldn't be surprised if either of those possibilities happen. We simply don't have enough established precedent to assume that the former is the correct assessment of how the situation will be resolved. We also have no explicit policy that clarifies the situation. Nothing more, nothing less. Your agreement with this point of view isn't necessary to make it the truth.