Cempa Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 In a WZ today one Sentinel Watchman spec had it in for one of our players, he went after him half of the game and killed him each time without fail and died right after. The thing is I was playing defense with that player Grass side -Civil War- whenever that Sentinel came we were at least 3 players. Granted the Sentinel died every time but not before killing our player. Why is this AC the only one that can burst a player down pretty much guaranteed even under 3 DPS focus fire. FORGET CC When 3 DPS focus fire you I do not think you should be able to kill another equally geared player before dieing your self. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoL-K-Noob Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Its called get out of melee range while keeping a snare on the guy and no lets not "FORGET CC". Complete BS on your part claiming 3 DPS couldn't kill the guy until after he dropped one of you. This is the same lies and misinformation people spewed about Sages pre-nerf. Edited May 25, 2012 by LoL-K-Noob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeluchus Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Besides the Sent being in augmented War Hero or regular War Hero gear, and the 3 other people focus firing him being in Recruit gear or less the only excuse I can think of for 3 people not killing the lone Sent is; you guys are terrible. Guess it would depend on his spec too, Watchman would take too long to ramp up and he'd be dead before any kind of significant damage could be done, Combat, possible to burst down in 4-5 GCDs, but way too easy for you all to have disrupted his burst or CCed him, Focus, all of you fools would have died if you all stood together like mooks. It's looking more and more like a skill issue. Even with factoring in all his defensive CDs and Guarded by the Force usage, if the 3 of you couldn't simply figure out how to CC then pewpepw him to death before he killed the one guy, definitely a skill issue. Conclusion: You are either exaggerating immensely or those 3 people were just plain awful, incompetent, undergeared or any combination of those. I have a feeling this is another thinly veiled "Nerf Maras/Sents" thread masquerading as a "what did we do wrong here?" thread. Edited May 25, 2012 by Temeluchus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 FORGET CC Why? CC is key to fighting Marauders. They have an ability that gives them 5s of invincibility which can be almost enough to kill somebody weak so if you aren't CCing them while that is up and instead are letting them swipe away at you... that's your problem. You should be able to burn them down to 30% health in 2GCDs if there are 3 of you and then when they pop it you just give them a 4s stun then finish them off when it wears off. Simple but effective. If you just keeping hitting them and getting hit back when you have a 99% damage reduction active... you deserve to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dani Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 In a WZ today one Sentinel Watchman spec had it in for one of our players, he went after him half of the game and killed him each time without fail and died right after. The thing is I was playing defense with that player Grass side -Civil War- whenever that Sentinel came we were at least 3 players. Granted the Sentinel died every time but not before killing our player. Why is this AC the only one that can burst a player down pretty much guaranteed even under 3 DPS focus fire. FORGET CC When 3 DPS focus fire you I do not think you should be able to kill another equally geared player before dieing your self. Thoughts? My thoughts are that you and the other 2 people are terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Typical Marauder player base shouting and screaming in attempt to hide the fact that defensive CD's of this AC are so poorly designed it allows the Marauder to completely destroy at least a single player even under focus fire from equally geared 3 players. Had we been under-geared he would have killed no less than 2 out of the three and most likely all 3. It does not take skill to press you DPS abilities in this game! A snare is of no use since the Watchmen/Annihilation has a DoT that applies a snare every second and the CD on that DoT -Rupture- is pretty much guaranteed to reset before the original application has expired. This AC defensive CD's is killing the game for every one else! Edited May 25, 2012 by Cempa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuey Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Outta curiosity, what classes were you 3? Also, you might not want to fill his resolve bar before undying rage otherwise you're gonna have 5 seconds of pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeSLX Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Typical Marauder player base shouting and screaming in attempt to hide the fact that defensive CD's of this AC are so poorly designed it allows the Marauder to completely destroy at least a single player even under focus fire from equally geared 3 players. Had we been under-geared he would have killed no less than 2 out of the three and most likely all 3. It does not take skill to press you DPS abilities in this game! A snare is of no use since the Watchmen/Annihilation has a DoT that applies a snare every second and the CD on that DoT -Rupture- is pretty much guaranteed to reset before the original application has expired. This AC defensive CD's is killing the game for every one else! Its important to know that when a person starts off by saying "Typical" that one can ignore all the following text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twor Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Forget CC? Stun him, focus him he will be down before he can use any of his defensive CDs- if all three of you do your job and are like you said all equally geared. But since you knew that the guy went after one specific player with tunnelvision and that player was not able to kite the sent around the node while the other two of you whacked him the problem is to be found behind the keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthshnooky Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Typical Marauder player base shouting and screaming in attempt to hide the fact that defensive CD's of this AC are so poorly designed it allows the Marauder to completely destroy at least a single player even under focus fire from equally geared 3 players. Had we been under-geared he would have killed no less than 2 out of the three and most likely all 3. It does not take skill to press you DPS abilities in this game! A snare is of no use since the Watchmen/Annihilation has a DoT that applies a snare every second and the CD on that DoT -Rupture- is pretty much guaranteed to reset before the original application has expired. This AC defensive CD's is killing the game for every one else! And there it is, the real purpose of this thread: "Nerf Marauders QQ" We get it, you think Marauders are OP so you made up a story (or you and the other two players really ARE that awful) to try to illustrate your perceived issues. DPS in general in this game may be strong in PvP right now, but your story demonstrates everything that is wrong with the players, not the game. If 3 of you couldn't stop a Marauder from killing one person, then you're awful. No guard? No heals? If so, then you were 3 DPS players and REALLY have no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erevan_Kindelar Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Sorry OP, but if 3 of you cannot burn down a Watchman specced Sent in the time it takes him to take down one of you, then the problem is not with the Sent class. Watchman is phenomenal when applying DoTs, but the burst is terrible, and what you are saying here is that the burst is taking down a player while that player plus two others stand there and play to the Sent's strengths rather than their own. Either there is a huge disparity in gear, or player skill/knowledge of the classes, or there is something going on there that you have not mentionned. The sent has 1 gap closer that I assume they are using at the start of the fight, plus 2 other guaranteed focus builders. For the next 12-15 seconds, they cannot use another gap closer and they only have the basic focus builder, so unless you are all melee classes the thing to do is drop a snare/CC on them and get range so they cannot do any damage other than the DoTs they have already applied before being snared and taken out of range, until their gap closer comes off cooldown. Rinse, repeat. Refusing to use CC is basically like saying "this guy can beat me when I have 1 hand tied behind my back, his class is OP". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksidechemist Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 In a WZ today one Sentinel Watchman spec had it in for one of our players, he went after him half of the game and killed him each time without fail and died right after. The thing is I was playing defense with that player Grass side -Civil War- whenever that Sentinel came we were at least 3 players. Granted the Sentinel died every time but not before killing our player. Why is this AC the only one that can burst a player down pretty much guaranteed even under 3 DPS focus fire. FORGET CC When 3 DPS focus fire you I do not think you should be able to kill another equally geared player before dieing your self. Thoughts? My thought is the Sent in question is much better than the 3 he was going up against, especially if the 3 are all dumb enough to go toe-to-toe with him and 'FORGET CC'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafy_Bug Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) They key in fighting a watchman is to know when to cleanse his dots and when to simply accept the 4k ticks on you. It seems to me that the 'victim' never paid attention to the debuffs the watchman put on him. Furthermore at 3 stacks, you will get another one which will make things even more interesting. Bottom line, a watchman can kill 1 in a 1 v 3 because many have no idea what to look for when fighting this spec. If one of them gets the right dots at the right times he will die. This is clearly what happened in this case. The guy who kept dying was simply mashing buttons to hit the watchman instead of taking care of his dots. A bigger mistake than this you cannot make when faced with such an interesting class. As a kinetic shadow I adapt to the situation and accept that sometimes I need to be patient and let his dots tick on me. I don't rush with the cleansing unless I am sure I got all my cds to nuke him down before he pops undying rage. Don't know the sent equivalent as I fight many maras in watchman spec. If I don't have my cds, then I am forced to accept his dot, cleanse on the second, force him to pop his cd, take him out of combat, regenerate my hp, re-enter combat, stun him and by now my resilience is back for the second time and his dots are useless as is his burst. Edited May 25, 2012 by Leafy_Bug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitsinni Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Just a wild guess here but that guy has better gear than the three of you and knows how to play his class better, and you either didn't have a healer or your healer was not good. Also that isn't the only class that can do that. I can do that on my Powertech Pyro spec as long as the they are not getting healed and their gear isn't far above mine. It isn't that hard to get one person killed before you get killed even under focus fire. It is pointless and kind of a waste of PvP but you can do it. Edited May 25, 2012 by kitsinni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalytron Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 My thoughts are that you and the other 2 people are terrible In a nut shell, this ^ +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventvisor Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 This is very sad to read...if you really can't beat a sent 3 v 1 you need to reconsider the way you play the game. ON my gunslinger...i will win the majority of the fights 1 v 1 against a mara/sent. On my merc...depending on CD's it will be a close fight but must likely end up losing. Unless there is a huge...and i mean HUGE gear gap, there is no reason for you to lose anyone in a 3 v 1. Also...i don't think i ever saw the make up of your 3 players...what class/AC are were the 3 of you? Not that it would make a difference...but would be good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnesium Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Why is this AC the only one that can burst a player down pretty much guaranteed even under 3 DPS focus fire. There are a few classes that can kill a target quicker than being focussed on WITHOUT CC hitting him. I know as a Infil Shadow (even KC but tanking spec aside about survival cooldowns). The Shadow itself does hold larger advantage over others in the ability to stealth to the target and essentially have the jump on DPS start time, where others you can see coming from a distance. The Sent currently has far too many good defensive cooldowns and needs fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 My thoughts are that you and the other 2 people are terrible I second the motion. All in favor? "Aye!" The "Ayes" have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uchoo Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I mean seriously, I play a Marauder and I can kill very quickly but really? It's so easy to escape my damage. Literally, if you don't let me get close, you win. Snares don't add to Resolve. Knockbacks aren't a big resolve issue. After Force Leap, you have 12-15s of pure kiting power. His defensive CD's are good, so are yours. Watch how a Mara/Sent plays and it's pretty easy to find weaknesses. Also: PT's can kill their target before dying 3v1. (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Why "FORGET CC"? That's like saying "FORGET SHOOTING BACK" or "FORGET HEALING PEOPLE". You have CC and taunts for a reason to stop stuff like this from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Its easy, CC the Defensive CD's, right? Regardless of the why, in actual WZ's its not that easy... Since in actual game play its not so easy, should we not accept the fact that it does require another look? How much more time should be given to allow the player base time to learn? One month? Two, three or twelve more? I think that all of you would agree that people will not disengage and CC ASAP once Watchman/Annihilation pops a CD, right? Its a reality of SWTOR WZ game play, should we deny it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcgregorya Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Its easy, CC the Defensive CD's, right? Regardless of the why, in actual WZ's its not that easy... Since in actual game play its not so easy, should we not accept the fact that it does require another look? How much more time should be given to allow the player base time to learn? One month? Two, three or twelve more? I think that all of you would agree that people will not disengage and CC ASAP once Watchman/Annihilation pops a CD, right? Its a reality of SWTOR WZ game play, should we deny it? I do it all the time. Then again I kill marauders 9 for 10, just like I kill everything 9 for 10 or better in a solo PVP fight. How about taunting for -30% damage? Or snaring and kiting? People post these stories where the marauder has them slowed, bleeding, trauma from saber toss and hitting them for obscene damage but they themselves cannot seem to use any of the 30 tactics that win against a high DPS class in your face. Edited May 25, 2012 by dcgregorya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthshnooky Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Its easy, CC the Defensive CD's, right? Regardless of the why, in actual WZ's its not that easy... Since in actual game play its not so easy, should we not accept the fact that it does require another look? How much more time should be given to allow the player base time to learn? One month? Two, three or twelve more? I think that all of you would agree that people will not disengage and CC ASAP once Watchman/Annihilation pops a CD, right? Its a reality of SWTOR WZ game play, should we deny it? So... now your point is that you admit that all 3 of you weren't very good, but argue that you shouldn't have to develop skill to beat another player in PvP? I'm starting to think this is a troll.... If not, you are actually blowing my mind with your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Its easy, CC the Defensive CD's, right? Regardless of the why, in actual WZ's its not that easy... Actually, it is that easy. In fact, its so easy, even a caveman could do it. /hides from Geico lawyers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethroin Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Cempa, In a 3 on 1 situation against good players all the sentinel should see is "Target too far: Get Closer", "You cannot do that while stunner", and "Respawn". The class is visible on incoming, never immune to CC, and requires a 4m range to deal damage. If you're letting one get a kill in a 3v1 then you are to blame, and no amount of "class balancing" will help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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