Not what we can do for them, but what they can do for us!

[LordHazanko]

I truly believe "we" the "people(player base, consumers,customers, whatever you would like to be prefer to as) should be focusing on this article, http://tor-talk.com/storm-preparation/ as to not the current article on ign, cause really we already know all the info and it was just re-summarized so IGN can take "credit" for bringing out the "good" news.

 

I myself found this article very sad and I hope none of the info was true, because if that were the case Bioware/EA can really say goodbye to not only myself but to many friends/family members as well. We didn't go out and blow large amounts of money on collectors edition and deluxe edition and continue to pay a monthly fee for something you yourselves "don't care" about. To not bother to update the people threw VIA SWTOR forums is just insulting really, what is the point of having forums if you don't plan on using them and plan on releasing vital info VIA IGN/Facebook/Tweeter..

 

Well down below is just the copy paste of the link if you might be to lazy to click and open another window to read the following info.

 

 

I usually don’t write articles, because our very own Canadian (Aaron Frede) does a fantastic job spearheading our editorial operations in the TOR-Talk Community. I can confidently say he would be decked out in full War-Hero gear if he could be rewarded by SW:TOR items. But on the very rare occasions I do feel compelled to share a few words expressing my excitement, ideas, or opinions. Just a heads up, this article is an opinionated one.

Rewinding time a little bit, on May 7th 2012 we found out that EA made over $1.2 Billion in “digital revenue” for their fourth fiscal quarter. Digital revenue can be classified as games sold via Origin, iTunes (E.g. Angry Birds), DLC, etc. That’s an astounding amount of money. Full game downloads we’re up 76% 2011-2012 thanks to titles like Star Wars: The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3. This is great news for our three companies (EA, LucasArts, and BioWare) developing and publishing our Star Wars: The Old Republic; but good things never last and sure enough the bad news hit.

 

John Riccitiello (Electronic Arts Executive)

It has been about a week since the most recent EA Conference Call, a meeting that had mixed controversy. EA’s top executive John Riccitiello made the following statement which caused a little animosity with players in the SW:TOR Community.

The Old Republic is in EA’s top 10 franchises in terms of profitability, “but it’s not in our top five”. “So it’s a business contributor, while important, is not as important as Medal of Honor or Battlefield or FIFA or Madden or The Sims or SimCity, but it’s more important than Tiger Woods PGA Golf.” “So while I understand there’s an enormous amount of interest, I don’t know that it warrants as much as what we’re seeing right now. But we love the franchise, we’re going to grow the franchise and just like we want to see Tiger Woods Golf grow or SSX grow, or Madden for that matter, we’re going to drive this one for growth.”

You don’t need to take “Business 101” to know that the statement above was not “PR-smart” and to a point, un-professional. The fact that SW:TOR’s publisher came out and told the masses they were prioritizing their games is un-wise, especially after taking the WIN for being voted the “Worst Company In America of 2012“ The Consumerist. I’m sorry, but I still can’t get over how Medal of Honor is above SW:TOR in priority; I can hardly tolerate Battlefield 3…but Medal of Honor? Regardless, there’s over 1 million players paying $15 a month for Star Wars: The Old Republic and to hear that your game isn’t at the top of the priority list and demeaned by games like Medal of Honor is irritating. I don’t mean to beat up on Medal of Honor, but I’m just trying to stress the principle of this whole controversy. EA never should’ve said or inferred that some of their games are more important then others…

 

In that same conference call we also learned that the SW:TOR player base had a large drop from 1.7 million to 1.3 million players. Keep in mind these numbers are “active” player accounts. Active accounts are not only subscribed accounts but also weekend trial accounts; I wonder what that new number would be if BioWare didn’t count those weekend trial accounts to the final roster? The statement shown below was made as an explanation to the 400,000 player decline in Star Wars: The Old Republic. EA’s Frank Gibeua said…

“When we launched the product back in December, it was an event launch. We brought in a lot of users, and with a brand like Star Wars, it reaches out much past the hardcore MMO fan base into the broader market. And as the service evolves from here, what we’re seeing is that some of the initial casual customers have gone through a billing cycle and decided not to subscribe to the game.”

I agree with this statement to a point. There were a lot of gamers who never touched an MMORPG ever. They went out and purchased SW:TOR because they were fans of Star Wars or other BioWare games. But that’s solely not the reason for this decline and I understand that Mr. Gibeua was trying to put a positive spin on this negative news. But sadly I think this is only the calm before the storm. I am no market analyst, but as a gamer who has experienced so many MMOs and seen competitive trends impact the games I love, I really think the number of subscriptions are going to continue to decline for SW:TOR if BioWare doesn’t make a radical change. Guild Wars II and World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria are on the horizon. Tera, or as I like to call it: Tera-ble, just launched and now we have this Elder Scrolls MMO, Titan (Unannounced Blizzard Project), and so much more MMORPG competition coming out. I’m nervous for TOR and it stinks because this game has so much potential!

These past two months have been rough on our guild community and server, watching “The Exodus” of players leave the game/guild because of the absent implementation of ranked warzones was devastating. Another blow to the PvP in TOR, strike #2 for some, following strike #1(Ilum). To make matters worse, servers won’t merge, because there is a reluctance to confront PR controversy in the MMO industry. Which in the short-term may seem like the “smart” decision to make, but in the long-term it won’t be. Server transfers are going to become available this summer, but it’s not going to solve the universal population issues in Star Wars: The Old Republic, in fact it may get worse because many guilds want to transfer as a whole.

 

Ilum Failure weeks after launch. Lines of players exploiting and kill-swapping.

From what we’ve “seen” **CAUTION MAJOR SPOILERS** the future of SW:TOR is primarily focused on PvE-related content, like more flashpoints and operations. This information cannot be confirmed, but what was “data-mined” can hint to what is coming in the future. As a player who wants SW:TOR to not just succeed, but to also to be “The” MMORPG of choice, I hope BioWare innovates more. Shown below is a few brief ideas on how BioWare can prepare for this storm!

Currently Open-World PvP is absent in the game, there’s little to no incentive to do it. Strategic objectives can be placed on many other planets besides Ilum, providing buffs, bonuses, or rewards for PvP dailies. Players who focus mainly on PvP will have a reason to come back to SW:TOR, rather then the W vs.W vs.W. Also when is Ilum set to return? It’s been in limbo for nearly two months.

Add more mini-games! Holy smokes, that was huge for SW:TOR. A lot of the players in the community we’re upset with how Space Combat was implemented, but a lof of players we’re relieved to take a break from their questing and earn some awesome looking social items. Swoop racing, Pazaak (Which I believe BioWare has plans for), and so many other unique features can be added to enrich the Star Wars experience and go “against the grain” with the typical MMO experience. World of Warcraft is implementing Pokemon to compete with BioWare’s space combat. They’re two totally different game mechanics, but they are foreign to MMORPG gameplay, which makes them enjoyable to the playerbase.

General upgrades on the GTN (Galactic Trade Network) and Guild Systems are needed. The guild interface and GTN options are so basic and arguably under the Triple AAA MMORPG standard that competing MMOs have set. Revise, innovate, and add to these utility gameplay aspects that have an incredible impact on the player communities and game.

In conclusion, the calm before the storm has passed, but the next few EA earnings calls are going to be interesting. The new competition is so near and there’s going to be a lot of different options for a lot of PvP players to choose from. Will Star Wars: The Old Republic be able to stay the course? Or will they continue to decline? Only time will tell.

What’s your take on the current state of Star Wars: The Old Republic? Do you agree with the author’s perspective? Tell us what you think.

 

 

 

 

So my question for all is, "What did you feel of the article and also what do you believe can be done on our current state?" (besides whats already spread like wildfire on the forums merges/transfers and more/less content, more bug fixes, oh ya and don't mention anything about ranked matches, cause I'd rather not see the thread get shut down so instantly..)

Thank you!

Edited May 21, 2012 by LordHazanko

[Shankos]

Active accounts are not only subscribed accounts but also weekend trial accounts; I wonder what that new number would be if BioWare didn’t count those weekend trial accounts to the final roster?

I'd be very interested to know what the actual number of accounts with active, recurring subscriptions is.

[LordHazanko]

I'd be very interested to know what the actual number of accounts with active, recurring subscriptions is.

 

That is also a great question! I too would like to know, but I highly doubt we'll ever get such "great" info

[Tuscad]

Its about money, always is.

[monkgryphon]

I'd be very interested to know what the actual number of accounts with active, recurring subscriptions is.

 

Why? Seriously why would anyone want to know exact numbers like that? You're not playing the game because of the numbers, you're playing the game because it is fun. If it is not fun anymore, then why continue playing? Why bother knowing the exact numbers? If you're on a dead server, there are workarounds to continue having fun, but if you're against re-rolling, then suffer or quit.

[Shankos]

Seriously why would anyone want to know exact numbers like that?

 

Because some of us would like to know if we're going to be transferring to an actual healthy server, or one with 9,500 "weekend pass players" who somehow magically count towards the total population during the week.

[Death_Sentenced]

It is of no suprise that EA, Bioware and Lucas Arts have shot themselves in the foot on this one. There is one quote in particular that struck home with me:

 

"I am no market analyst, but as a gamer who has experienced so many MMOs and seen competitive trends impact the games I love, I really think the number of subscriptions are going to continue to decline for SW:TOR if BioWare doesn’t make a radical change."

 

What a great article, thank you for bringing it to the community for discussion.

 

Personally I truely want the radical changes that this game needs and sincerely hope that the dev teams take note of the unrest the communty has shown as of late. I waited over 2 years for release and was only thrilled for about 3 weeks. I want to be enthralled again... for the love of god PLEASE listen to your subscribers... the people that pay your salaries.

[monkgryphon]

Because some of us would like to know if we're going to be transferring to an actual healthy server, or one with 9,500 "weekend pass players" who somehow magically count towards the total population during the week.

 

You didn't specify in your previous post about the numbers tied to individual servers. You just wrote wanting to know the number.

Edited May 21, 2012 by monkgryphon

[Oscibi]

I'd be very interested to know what the actual number of accounts with active, recurring subscriptions is.

 

I would be even more interested to know the amount of active players rather then subs. as they prolly count the 30 free days as "subscribed"

[Doktah]

Honestly I think server transfers are just a waste of time at this point. Server merges should have happened already and then they could have offered server transfers. BW just doesn't want to admit failure and like all other companies, they will bend the truth to save face.

 

They probably could have saved half of the people they have lost because the game is fun, it just needs other people around to play with. I am still waiting for tumbleweeds to appear on the fleet.

[vladx]

I think the OP really needs a reality check. Not defending EA but did you really think SW:TOR could have ever been EA's #1 priority with big franchises like FIFA, The Sims or Battlefield around? Face it, those games just bring much more money than this games does.

 

If you were in their places, you would've chose SWTOR to invest in over those games? I think NOT, or you're either very naive or you're lying to yourself.

Edited May 21, 2012 by vladx

[Oscibi]

I think the OP really needs a reality check. Not defending EA but did you really think SW:TOR could have ever been EA's #1 priority with big franchises like FIFA, The Sims or Battlefield around? Face it, those games just bring much more money than this games does.

 

If you were in their places, you would've chose SWTOR to invest in over those games? I think NOT, or you're either very naive or you're lying to yourself.

 

Yes it could of been. I mean If you put it as 8.99 x 2million = 17,980,000 Per month not including the game. and seeing how it could have such a bigger player base if it wasnt crap.

 

Same with wow. They had sold 12 million copies of an expasion so if you just include 1 month of 8.99 you would get:

8.99x12million= 107,880,000

 

So IF they had made this game more appealing. Better design better everything really it could be a huge profit.

[vladx]

Yes it could of been. I mean If you put it as 8.99 x 2million = 17,980,000 Per month not including the game. and seeing how it could have such a bigger player base if it wasnt crap.

 

Same with wow. They had sold 12 million copies of an expasion so if you just include 1 month of 8.99 you would get:

8.99x12million= 107,880,000

 

So IF they had made this game more appealing. Better design better everything really it could be a huge profit.

 

It had no chance from the beginning to reach WOW. No future MMO will ever come close to 5 million let alone 12m that was WOW's peak and that's the cold reality. Even if SWTOR would've maintained it's 2m playerbase that would still not be enough to reach the likes of FIFA or The Sims considering all the costs needed to maintan and update the game.

[LordHazanko]

It is of no suprise that EA, Bioware and Lucas Arts have shot themselves in the foot on this one. There is one quote in particular that struck home with me:

 

"I am no market analyst, but as a gamer who has experienced so many MMOs and seen competitive trends impact the games I love, I really think the number of subscriptions are going to continue to decline for SW:TOR if BioWare doesn’t make a radical change."

 

What a great article, thank you for bringing it to the community for discussion.

 

Personally I truely want the radical changes that this game needs and sincerely hope that the dev teams take note of the unrest the communty has shown as of late. I waited over 2 years for release and was only thrilled for about 3 weeks. I want to be enthralled again... for the love of god PLEASE listen to your subscribers... the people that pay your salaries.

 

Thank you for such a lovely post.

[Shankos]

Even if SWTOR would've maintained it's 2m playerbase that would still not be enough to reach the likes of FIFA or The Sims considering all the costs needed to maintan and update the game.

Let's say SWTOR managed to maintain a 2M player following.

 

You'd still be looking at a solid $30M every month in subscription fees in addition to the base $100M from everyone purchasing the game (you can cut that down to a mere $70M if you want to factor in the first month being free).

 

Now, a big question comes up.

Does Bioware pull in $30M every month from any of their other projects? Once the year's big FIFA title is out and a few million copies have sold, do they keep a steady amount of sales year-round?

 

Of course, these are all rough numbers, and there's a good deal of things to factor in like employees and whatnot, but, as a whole, the potential $360M every year just from maintaining SWTOR with a 2M player community wouldn't be anything to sneeze at.

[xorcist]

I will speculate that the reason they don't have transfers in place already or sooner is because of the engine they are using that was Hero. The same reason there are so many bugs. We all know the back story there. I believe they are really trying their best to satisfy us. Maybe they tried to make the game too big too fast. Which the engine was good for. However bad for many other things. Trying to emulate Warcraft too closely was also a mistake. Some familiar elements worked well. Use them. But they took too much from that game, and missed even more features because they were pressured to release. Never the less I am still having fun playing, even if I have to re-roll on a heavy server. I'll deal with the repercussions that entails later. It will get better with time, but I don't know if they can ever solve the problem that is/was the Hero Engine. Should've went with an Unreal Engine instead. Things would be so different from their point of view, and would most likely free up resources plus time fixing broken things to doing more worthwhile stuff for the game. I need my Star Wars fix, not some sword and board fix. Sick and tired of those games...

[vladx]

Let's say SWTOR managed to maintain a 2M player following.

 

You'd still be looking at a solid $30M every month in subscription fees in addition to the base $100M from everyone purchasing the game (you can cut that down to a mere $70M if you want to factor in the first month being free).

 

Now, a big question comes up.

Does Bioware pull in $30M every month from any of their other projects? Once the year's big FIFA title is out and a few million copies have sold, do they keep a steady amount of sales year-round?

 

Of course, these are all rough numbers, and there's a good deal of things to factor in like employees and whatnot, but, as a whole, the potential $360M every year just from maintaining SWTOR with a 2M player community wouldn't be anything to sneeze at.

 

Well FIFA 12 made about $700m from sales and that's in 6 months so clearly SWTOR's max doesn't come anywhere near that number.

Edited May 22, 2012 by vladx

[Shankos]

Well FIFA 12 made about $700m from sales and that's in 6 months so clearly SWTOR's max doesn't come anywhere near that number.

 

Mind helping us to a link that shows us the $700M for the title?

[vladx]

Mind helping us to a link that shows us the $700M for the title?

 

Well here was reported that FIFA 12 sold over 10 million copies by february so i added an estimated 2m sales until now to a total of 12m which means that 12,000,000 X $60 = $720m total earnings.

[Shankos]

Well here was reported that FIFA 12 sold over 10 million copies by february so i added an estimated 2m sales until now to a total of 12m which means that 12,000,000 X $60 = $720m total earnings.

Ah, nice. Thanks for the info. I'd done a couple searches and they didn't return anything, so I'm glad you returned with a source.

 

Starting to think these guys should just chalk this up to a loss in the MMORPG market and stick to sports if they can pull in that kind of money from selling Soccer games.

[Mithros]

Honestly I think server transfers are just a waste of time at this point. Server merges should have happened already and then they could have offered server transfers. BW just doesn't want to admit failure and like all other companies, they will bend the truth to save face.

 

They probably could have saved half of the people they have lost because the game is fun, it just needs other people around to play with. I am still waiting for tumbleweeds to appear on the fleet.

 

Transfers can be handled in a way that combines them with shutdowns for more of a win-win.

 

Merging server X and servery Y, and merging server A and server B is not, in my opinion, the best way to go.

 

Instead, they can target servers for shutdown but give the people with characters on those servers some time to find a new home for their characters.

People could scout out different servers to try and gauge the state of the community, to check for name availability, or just to find a server with a name that they like, not to mention letting them change to an RP, PvP, or PvE server if they initially chose a different type.

 

There is a risk that there could be a run on a particular server or three, but Bioware can restrict which servers can be transferred to, and take servers off of the acceptable list when certain targets are reached.

The point isn't to create a very few servers with massive populations, it is to have more servers with a healthy population.

 

All that said, it still only helps so much. They need to have a healthy number of players on their servers, but hey need them playing at different level ranges too.

A player with a character all alone on Alderaan can only take so much consolation from the fact that there are a lot of level 50s to play alongside of one day.

[Kubernetic]

I have never seen anything so ridiculous in my gaming experience as a bunch of people who take umbrage at what some other dude thousands of miles away thinks is their priority in terms of game development.

 

Who cares whether it's in EA's top 5 properties or not? Some of these titles are on their 13th year running or MORE, and sell millions of copies every year for consoles and PC alike.

 

Of course some title that only sells a few million copies once is going to be down on the list a little bit.

 

SO WHAT?!?!?! Lord.

[Kthx]

Its about money, always is.

 

Go ahead and find someone ready to fund an MMO who is willing to do it without getting a positive return on investment.

[rbkrbk]

I truly believe "we" the "people(player base, consumers,customers, whatever you would like to be prefer to as) should be focusing on this article, http://tor-talk.com/storm-preparation/ as to not the current article on ign, cause really we already know all the info and it was just re-summarized so IGN can take "credit" for bringing out the "good" news.

 

This is old news buddy, but I'm glad more and more people are seeing it. It's been my sig for quite some time now.

[rbkrbk]

I have never seen anything so ridiculous in my gaming experience as a bunch of people who take umbrage at what some other dude thousands of miles away thinks is their priority in terms of game development.

 

Who cares whether it's in EA's top 5 properties or not? Some of these titles are on their 13th year running or MORE, and sell millions of copies every year for consoles and PC alike.

 

Of course some title that only sells a few million copies once is going to be down on the list a little bit.

 

SO WHAT?!?!?! Lord.

 

So what? Are you familiar with how business metrics and budgeting works? When you have a product that is more popular, you tend to take part of the funds generated from not so popular products and funnel them into what is selling. This means less funding for SWTOR in the long term.

 

So what, good Lord what a question.