Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[AlpsStranger]

Please explain to me how an addon which analyses your playing and does nothing but provide with information is a 'crutch'

 

Because they might have to use an "elitist" talent spec. They already spent $100 on a home dart board and spent all afternoon throwing darts to make their spec!

[Dazgra]

Because they might have to use an "elitist" talent spec. They already spent $100 on a home dart board and spent all afternoon throwing darts to make their spec!

 

Haha that's good, also liked your sig.

[TheHauntingBard]

Actually they already force a certain spec for hard mode flash points.

It's called the enrage timer.

 

Say you join a heroic as DPS with a half healing and half DPS spec.

The boss has to die with in 3 minutes and you need to do 80k damage with in that time.

Same goes for the other DPS.

 

You got blue gear and the max damage you can push with that spec is 60k damage while the min max allows 100k.

I don't consider this to be 'fun' for the rest of the group.

 

 

These hard modes force you to play/spec in a certain way until you out gear them.

[Uruare]

People saying recount killed WoW have no idea what they are talking about. Before recount there was damage meters and that was soon after release. WoW hit it's peak in Burning Crusade mods and all, so no recount did not negatively affect the player base if anything it was a reason for success.

 

In about the same magnitudinal degree as spitting in the ocean alters the global sea level, yes. Macrosocial and social econ research on the ground-breaking success of WoW, as well as attempts at intuiting the reasons for that success, exists.

 

I'm not going to cite it verbatim here; go find it. You're in for a treat if you do. Good stuff.

 

 

Like it or not WoW has dictated the style of modern MMO's, and it was because of mods that the game evolved to be what it is. The newest content designed to challenge a group to the breaking point is only possible when everyone is performing to the maximum of their capacity. To learn what exactly that is we need the proper tools to do so. No it didn't matter in MC because fights weren't about performance they were about mechanics, there is a difference.

 

I can only speak for myself, but my career challenges me to my breaking point routinely and at far greater purpose of investment than any happy-funtime game ever could or will.

 

Surely I'm not the only one not looking for a happy-funtime game to be my surrogate for a sense of achievement and challenge in life. Why must a happy-funtime game challenge you to your breaking point?

 

Is fun inextricably linked to breaking points?

 

I swear, the number of people that treat their MMO's like their careers is...interesting.

 

Very...very...interesting.

 

 

 

 

If you have no interest in learning how to properly play your class to at least a portion of it's potential you have no business in raids or even groups. Do you want someone on your football team who can't run? I doubt you do.

 

I wouldn't want someone on my task force or research/deployment teams that weren't qualified to the tasks and responsibilities at hand.

 

Key difference: We get paid and actually have to know things that matter, must demonstrably be both able and willing to utilize our knowledge and skillsets to the fullest and, at project's end, quite possibly deliver a product or culmination that sees millions or billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands on into the millions of lives being affected.

 

If we're talking about a career even on a smaller scale of product impact; one's personal livelihood, for example -- their means of putting food on the table; we're still talking about something more important by orders of magnitude than anything that exists in a Happy-Funtime game's circle of purposeful application, or for that matter consideration.

 

In short: It's a game. It's not even a game as culturally important as professional sports. You log on, do some stuff, log out. It's not televised. At best, you've entertained yourself and perhaps contributed to the entertainment of a tiny handful of others.

 

You're not leveraging $150 million dollar advertisements on the intermission of your raid, and you never will.

 

So...in terms of relevance, your position doesn't exist in the terms you're trying to apply to it. You want that kind of excellence, you sure can find it in some games.

 

Go play one. Or, more usefully to yourself and others, go get a fekken job.

 

No, you don't have one that even vaguely matters if you think bollocks like this is important. Stop being bad at RL and the Happy and Funtime in games will be what will shine forth in never-before-seen cheer.

 

 

 

Now the backlash of it all. MMOs are held under a microscope, classes must have a relative balance to one another. The mathmasters WILL crown a tank healer and dps as king and the juggling will begin. There is no avoiding this, it is now expected by the millions of people in this generation of MMO.

 

Yawn.

 

 

Now if you don't mind living in ignorance of your classes disablity, then I dare say you are the minority. But information is always valuable. Why you would want to handicap yourself and the games evolution is beyond me. If they hope to achieve a longterm player base this is one of the many requirements to do so.

 

 

Bzzt, wrong on all points. Scale it back two notches and you're back in relevant, viable territory.

 

What a modern MMO needs to appeal to the trending market are, in general, fairly basic.

 

Availability: If the hardware specs are too high and/or the difficulty of the game is too high, welcome to the corner you've painted yourself into.

 

Quality of Life Features: Robust chat and social functions, such as guild functionality, are core to this. A usefully customizable and intuitively easy-to-use UI as the steering wheel and dashboard of your gameplay is a must. This can also include things folks such as the RP community enjoy, such as interactive furniture, lots of appearance customization features and robust crafting/non-combat activities.

 

Setting and Presentation: TOR's a giant win on setting; it's doing Star Wars very well; and it presents it in a wonderfully immersive manner. WoW, by contrast, tries to place a goodly degree of emphasis on its setting and presentation thereof, but applies its crowning efforts to dungeons and raids. Graphics factor into this, as does sound quality, musical score, environmental layouts, terrain navigability and so on.

 

Entertainment Value: As a relative subset of all else, if it's not fun for your target market, you've failed. It might be pretty and sound lovely and be as accessible and feature-rich as can be, and if it's just a giant hassle to utilize as its given, welcome to failure 101.

 

'Fun' is a definitively subjective term. Modern MMO's are well served by not specializing too narrowly in a market segment to service while, at the same time, not over-reaching and trying to be too many things beyond their developmental and sustainable resources to effectively and optimally support.

 

 

And these are just very general, abstract considerations with their own unique concerns and requirements of investment into. They are all ubiquitously important to the potential success of a game.

 

And that's not even touching the next phase of considerations, being marketing, client/public relations and so on.

 

Oversimplification of the matter is easy when all you're fundamentally aware of is what you personally think and feel about something, however, and everyone has their own little internal metrics of likes and dislikes as well as strictly subjective framings of importance and distinction on all of it.

 

Let's call it degrees of tolerance for ease of reference.

 

So...here we have a happy-funtime game. A loud, unknown quantity of people are pushing to get the devs to support their favored approach to MMO gaming...which, if they're successful as they hope to be, will see TOR being SW:WoW in no time.

 

Unfortunately, TOR's a different animal altogether from the ground up. They'd be wasting a key selling point, being their immersive story involvement, to try and get their lambourghini to out-fly the airplanes.

 

In sum and short...boy am I glad none of you are doing the devs' thinking. You'll almost certainly get your mods and turn the endgame into the same social environment as WoW's raidgame sustains, but I continue to hope that Bioware is smart enough to realize when a car is not an airplane.

 

 

Or they'll have committed themselves quite expensively to developing an immersion game nobody staying on long-term cares about for its immersive factor and may as well have skipped that entirely and just been a WoW clone with laser swords from the get-go.

 

Certain balances can indeed be struck there; they're going to try to juggle it and have clearly invested themselves in the direction of trying to sustain a hardcore raid appeal along with all else...but, again, that's not where TOR's really going to shine.

 

And if they don't know this and capitalize on where it -does- shine instead, there will be an awful lot of operations with full voice overs and cut scenes and dialogue options that mean jack diddly squat to the people doing the raiding.

 

They'll be there, after all, for very different reasons, and pursuant to ideas of fun that are better served by things like Recount than voice overs and immersive cut scenes and pesky dialogue options.

 

'Nuff said.

[PjPablo]

In about the same magnitudinal degree as spitting in the ocean alters the global sea level, yes. Macrosocial and social econ research on the ground-breaking success of WoW, as well as attempts at intuiting the reasons for that success, exists.

 

I'm not going to cite it verbatim here; go find it. You're in for a treat if you do. Good stuff.

 

 

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but my career challenges me to my breaking point routinely and at far greater purpose of investment than any happy-funtime game ever could or will.

 

Surely I'm not the only one not looking for a happy-funtime game to be my surrogate for a sense of achievement and challenge in life. Why must a happy-funtime game challenge you to your breaking point?

 

Is fun inextricably linked to breaking points?

 

I swear, the number of people that treat their MMO's like their careers is...interesting.

 

Very...very...interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't want someone on my task force or research/deployment teams that weren't qualified to the tasks and responsibilities at hand.

 

Key difference: We get paid and actually have to know things that matter, must demonstrably be both able and willing to utilize our knowledge and skillsets to the fullest and, at project's end, quite possibly deliver a product or culmination that sees millions or billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands on into the millions of lives being affected.

 

If we're talking about a career even on a smaller scale of product impact; one's personal livelihood, for example -- their means of putting food on the table; we're still talking about something more important by orders of magnitude than anything that exists in a Happy-Funtime game's circle of purposeful application, or for that matter consideration.

 

In short: It's a game. It's not even a game as culturally important as professional sports. You log on, do some stuff, log out. It's not televised. At best, you've entertained yourself and perhaps contributed to the entertainment of a tiny handful of others.

 

You're not leveraging $150 million dollar advertisements on the intermission of your raid, and you never will.

 

So...in terms of relevance, your position doesn't exist in the terms you're trying to apply to it. You want that kind of excellence, you sure can find it in some games.

 

Go play one. Or, more usefully to yourself and others, go get a fekken job.

 

No, you don't have one that even vaguely matters if you think bollocks like this is important. Stop being bad at RL and the Happy and Funtime in games will be what will shine forth in never-before-seen cheer.

 

 

 

 

 

Yawn.

 

 

 

 

 

Bzzt, wrong on all points. Scale it back two notches and you're back in relevant, viable territory.

 

What a modern MMO needs to appeal to the trending market are, in general, fairly basic.

 

Availability: If the hardware specs are too high and/or the difficulty of the game is too high, welcome to the corner you've painted yourself into.

 

Quality of Life Features: Robust chat and social functions, such as guild functionality, are core to this. A usefully customizable and intuitively easy-to-use UI as the steering wheel and dashboard of your gameplay is a must. This can also include things folks such as the RP community enjoy, such as interactive furniture, lots of appearance customization features and robust crafting/non-combat activities.

 

Setting and Presentation: TOR's a giant win on setting; it's doing Star Wars very well; and it presents it in a wonderfully immersive manner. WoW, by contrast, tries to place a goodly degree of emphasis on its setting and presentation thereof, but applies its crowning efforts to dungeons and raids. Graphics factor into this, as does sound quality, musical score, environmental layouts, terrain navigability and so on.

 

Entertainment Value: As a relative subset of all else, if it's not fun for your target market, you've failed. It might be pretty and sound lovely and be as accessible and feature-rich as can be, and if it's just a giant hassle to utilize as its given, welcome to failure 101.

 

'Fun' is a definitively subjective term. Modern MMO's are well served by not specializing too narrowly in a market segment to service while, at the same time, not over-reaching and trying to be too many things beyond their developmental and sustainable resources to effectively and optimally support.

 

 

And these are just very general, abstract considerations with their own unique concerns and requirements of investment into. They are all ubiquitously important to the potential success of a game.

 

And that's not even touching the next phase of considerations, being marketing, client/public relations and so on.

 

Oversimplification of the matter is easy when all you're fundamentally aware of is what you personally think and feel about something, however, and everyone has their own little internal metrics of likes and dislikes as well as strictly subjective framings of importance and distinction on all of it.

 

Let's call it degrees of tolerance for ease of reference.

 

So...here we have a happy-funtime game. A loud, unknown quantity of people are pushing to get the devs to support their favored approach to MMO gaming...which, if they're successful as they hope to be, will see TOR being SW:WoW in no time.

 

Unfortunately, TOR's a different animal altogether from the ground up. They'd be wasting a key selling point, being their immersive story involvement, to try and get their lambourghini to out-fly the airplanes.

 

In sum and short...boy am I glad none of you are doing the devs' thinking. You'll almost certainly get your mods and turn the endgame into the same social environment as WoW's raidgame sustains, but I continue to hope that Bioware is smart enough to realize when a car is not an airplane.

 

 

Or they'll have committed themselves quite expensively to developing an immersion game nobody staying on long-term cares about for its immersive factor and may as well have skipped that entirely and just been a WoW clone with laser swords from the get-go.

 

Certain balances can indeed be struck there; they're going to try to juggle it and have clearly invested themselves in the direction of trying to sustain a hardcore raid appeal along with all else...but, again, that's not where TOR's really going to shine.

 

And if they don't know this and capitalize on where it -does- shine instead, there will be an awful lot of operations with full voice overs and cut scenes and dialogue options that mean jack diddly squat to the people doing the raiding.

 

They'll be there, after all, for very different reasons, and pursuant to ideas of fun that are better served by things like Recount than voice overs and immersive cut scenes and pesky dialogue options.

 

'Nuff said.

 

Just a very long, long version of the "I have a life" argument, which actually I would question now since you sure took a lot of your valuable time to write that treatise.

[DevonLoy]

I usually read whole threads before posting.

 

 

But then I took 96 pages to the face.

 

 

 

 

 

Seriously though on the point of recount or even another system. I don't really care, I think they should implement it or something else, but the point is this game has been out for like two weeks (retail) and its nowhere near compatible for third party programs. Let them work out all the kinks in their system, then they'll start considering things like recount.

 

 

 

But really 96 pages, this is a big topic.

[Dazgra]

It's amazing how you write such massive posts without actually making any points

[DevonLoy]

In about the same magnitudinal degree as spitting in the ocean alters the global sea level, yes. Macrosocial and social econ research on the ground-breaking success of WoW, as well as attempts at intuiting the reasons for that success, exists.

 

I'm not going to cite it verbatim here; go find it. You're in for a treat if you do. Good stuff.

 

 

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but my career challenges me to my breaking point routinely and at far greater purpose of investment than any happy-funtime game ever could or will.

 

Surely I'm not the only one not looking for a happy-funtime game to be my surrogate for a sense of achievement and challenge in life. Why must a happy-funtime game challenge you to your breaking point?

 

Is fun inextricably linked to breaking points?

 

I swear, the number of people that treat their MMO's like their careers is...interesting.

 

Very...very...interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't want someone on my task force or research/deployment teams that weren't qualified to the tasks and responsibilities at hand.

 

Key difference: We get paid and actually have to know things that matter, must demonstrably be both able and willing to utilize our knowledge and skillsets to the fullest and, at project's end, quite possibly deliver a product or culmination that sees millions or billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands on into the millions of lives being affected.

 

If we're talking about a career even on a smaller scale of product impact; one's personal livelihood, for example -- their means of putting food on the table; we're still talking about something more important by orders of magnitude than anything that exists in a Happy-Funtime game's circle of purposeful application, or for that matter consideration.

 

In short: It's a game. It's not even a game as culturally important as professional sports. You log on, do some stuff, log out. It's not televised. At best, you've entertained yourself and perhaps contributed to the entertainment of a tiny handful of others.

 

You're not leveraging $150 million dollar advertisements on the intermission of your raid, and you never will.

 

So...in terms of relevance, your position doesn't exist in the terms you're trying to apply to it. You want that kind of excellence, you sure can find it in some games.

 

Go play one. Or, more usefully to yourself and others, go get a fekken job.

 

No, you don't have one that even vaguely matters if you think bollocks like this is important. Stop being bad at RL and the Happy and Funtime in games will be what will shine forth in never-before-seen cheer.

 

 

 

 

 

Yawn.

 

 

 

 

 

Bzzt, wrong on all points. Scale it back two notches and you're back in relevant, viable territory.

 

What a modern MMO needs to appeal to the trending market are, in general, fairly basic.

 

Availability: If the hardware specs are too high and/or the difficulty of the game is too high, welcome to the corner you've painted yourself into.

 

Quality of Life Features: Robust chat and social functions, such as guild functionality, are core to this. A usefully customizable and intuitively easy-to-use UI as the steering wheel and dashboard of your gameplay is a must. This can also include things folks such as the RP community enjoy, such as interactive furniture, lots of appearance customization features and robust crafting/non-combat activities.

 

Setting and Presentation: TOR's a giant win on setting; it's doing Star Wars very well; and it presents it in a wonderfully immersive manner. WoW, by contrast, tries to place a goodly degree of emphasis on its setting and presentation thereof, but applies its crowning efforts to dungeons and raids. Graphics factor into this, as does sound quality, musical score, environmental layouts, terrain navigability and so on.

 

Entertainment Value: As a relative subset of all else, if it's not fun for your target market, you've failed. It might be pretty and sound lovely and be as accessible and feature-rich as can be, and if it's just a giant hassle to utilize as its given, welcome to failure 101.

 

'Fun' is a definitively subjective term. Modern MMO's are well served by not specializing too narrowly in a market segment to service while, at the same time, not over-reaching and trying to be too many things beyond their developmental and sustainable resources to effectively and optimally support.

 

 

And these are just very general, abstract considerations with their own unique concerns and requirements of investment into. They are all ubiquitously important to the potential success of a game.

 

And that's not even touching the next phase of considerations, being marketing, client/public relations and so on.

 

Oversimplification of the matter is easy when all you're fundamentally aware of is what you personally think and feel about something, however, and everyone has their own little internal metrics of likes and dislikes as well as strictly subjective framings of importance and distinction on all of it.

 

Let's call it degrees of tolerance for ease of reference.

 

So...here we have a happy-funtime game. A loud, unknown quantity of people are pushing to get the devs to support their favored approach to MMO gaming...which, if they're successful as they hope to be, will see TOR being SW:WoW in no time.

 

Unfortunately, TOR's a different animal altogether from the ground up. They'd be wasting a key selling point, being their immersive story involvement, to try and get their lambourghini to out-fly the airplanes.

 

In sum and short...boy am I glad none of you are doing the devs' thinking. You'll almost certainly get your mods and turn the endgame into the same social environment as WoW's raidgame sustains, but I continue to hope that Bioware is smart enough to realize when a car is not an airplane.

 

 

Or they'll have committed themselves quite expensively to developing an immersion game nobody staying on long-term cares about for its immersive factor and may as well have skipped that entirely and just been a WoW clone with laser swords from the get-go.

 

Certain balances can indeed be struck there; they're going to try to juggle it and have clearly invested themselves in the direction of trying to sustain a hardcore raid appeal along with all else...but, again, that's not where TOR's really going to shine.

 

And if they don't know this and capitalize on where it -does- shine instead, there will be an awful lot of operations with full voice overs and cut scenes and dialogue options that mean jack diddly squat to the people doing the raiding.

 

They'll be there, after all, for very different reasons, and pursuant to ideas of fun that are better served by things like Recount than voice overs and immersive cut scenes and pesky dialogue options.

 

'Nuff said.

 

This I agree with, and to all the people who posted one sentence long thrashings to this statement, that is just unacceptable.

 

And to that other guy who said that this is just an I Have A Life Argument, I don't know about your experiences in RL or your typing skills. But this kind of post takes a max of like 15 mins depending on how thoroughly the person analyzes there statment.

[PjPablo]

This I agree with, and to all the people who posted one sentence long thrashings to this statement, that is just unacceptable.

 

And to that other guy who said that this is just an I Have A Life Argument, I don't know about your experiences in RL or your typing skills. But this kind of post takes a max of like 15 mins depending on how thoroughly the person analyzes there statment.

 

I typically stop reading when the poster insults the other posters that have a different opinion. If they are going to turn to insults out of frustration or whatever the reason is I really don't care what they have to say after that.

[AluFTWsw]

PLOX Gief Recount KK THX BYE !

[DevonLoy]

I typically stop reading when the poster insults the other posters that have a different opinion. If they are going to turn to insults out of frustration or whatever the reason is I really don't care what they have to say after that.

 

Is that a reply to me or the first guy?

[Dazgra]

His response was a joke mate. And there is no way to reply to that giant wall of stupid. His main analogy is that contrived Lamborghini/Airplane thing which is ridiculous considering that this game is pretty much WoW in space. The only way that analogy would work is if Bioware decided to take a different approach like EVE or even Galaxies with the jump to lightspeed expansion. The rest is the 'I have a life' and 'its a game not a job!' argument which are both inane.

[Kunitsukami]

Are we saying we want dev's to make encounters to be based on DPS doing x amount of DPS, Healers doing y amount of healing, and tanks holding z amount of threat etc etc?

 

This isn't my reason for not wanting Recount, i've settled that pages and pages back but do the pro-recount people say that they think 1: If Recount is added to the game that nobody will be influenced to use it who doesn't want to, 2: That devs won't start using it to make encounters which just literally mean you need to do x,y, and z on the meters to beat the boss (most WoW bosses do this and they very rarely swing from that formula), and 3: that they believe great players can't play brilliantly and have as good a time without the meters?

[kevlarto]

no recount, no to any third party mods or add ons, if Bioware don't make it I don't need it.

[Vyeth]

Wouldn't mind it.. You could analyze and over analyze my build, gear and rotation.. But it's up to me and my reasons for playing if I am going to change for you or not..

 

I'm pretty sure a tool like this would make alot of guild leaders even more douchey, but i'm sure by the time something like this hits, there would already be an established raid crew developed and everyone would be expected to be just like them before getting in..

 

I'd use it for my own personal S's and G's, and wouldn't hold it against anyone else..

[Javrak]

 

(Not going to repost, I don't want to spam up the boards.)

 

'Nuff said.

 

Biggest issue I see is this : One group wants one thing, another group is against it.

 

It's almost a cultural issue.

 

Say for instance we are back in ye ole day. Half of your populace wants to sacrifice goats to their gods for religious purposes, the other half says that allowing ritual sacrifices to happen without stopping it is not acceptable by their religion. We are at an impasse. The answer can only be binary, as it seems there is no wiggle room for grey. How do you overcome that hurdle to maximize the satisfaction of all parties?

 

It's starting to seem that choosing one or zero is going to ostracize the opposing group. You can't tell the goat-killers they can only sacrifice on saturdays, as this will still displease PETA. You can't herald no goats will be killed, as the goat killers will only be pleased by ritual sacrifice.

 

And most importantly you can't leave it up to them to decide, because they are just going to fight over it until the loser is beaten into submission, at which point they will likely go elsewhere. Also if you do the democratic way the loser will still likely end up leaving anyway.

 

I'm having trouble seeing a middle ground here, hence my post about an activity meter. I've raided with meters, and without meters. I personally had the most fun and excitement raiding without, as I myself tended to get highway hypnosis and depending on what I was doing was either staring at health bars, or staring at damage(while still following fight mechanics). Without meters I was able to just worry about fight mechanics, and it made it a much more enjoyable experience.

 

With an activity meter, I can only see myself rehashing what I did after the fight, as well as others, to see what we did wrong in the scenario where we fail the encounter. If we succeed there would really be no reason to, unless someone broke CC or something midfight, and you just need to make sure they know that is on the "not to do list". Granted this doesn't keep the min/maxers happy, and also doesn't give a fair assessment of who needs the most work when pushing the DPS bar for enrage encounters.

 

Thoughts?

[PjPablo]

Is that a reply to me or the first guy?

 

The other person who wrote the long post.

 

If people have a point to make then just make your point. Insulting others really is the sign of the lack of a better argument. If you can't be persuasive on the merits of your argument than maybe its just best to stop.

 

I really don't understand the emotion around not wanting addons. They just provide additional information and yet people get very animated when it is suggested that the game could use them. I have yet to see a game 'ruined' by addons. Wow was not ruined by them at all. AND if a game was 'ruined' by the addition of addons it wasn't a very strong game to begin with.

[TheHauntingBard]

Are we saying we want dev's to make encounters to be based on DPS doing x amount of DPS, Healers doing y amount of healing, and tanks holding z amount of threat etc etc?

 

This isn't my reason for not wanting Recount, i've settled that pages and pages back but do the pro-recount people say that they think 1: If Recount is added to the game that nobody will be influenced to use it who doesn't want to, 2: That devs won't start using it to make encounters which just literally mean you need to do x,y, and z on the meters to beat the boss (most WoW bosses do this and they very rarely swing from that formula), and 3: that they believe great players can't play brilliantly and have as good a time without the meters?

 

Every hardmode and every nightmare mode is based on this concept yes.

Do X DPS do X healing and do X threat , if you fail to reach the amount of DPS the boss enrages and GG.

 

These enrage timers are also pretty tight.

When you design the game like that be reasonable enough to introduce recount.

 

After all if Bioware did make something unique no one would ask for recount.

They would have worked around it.

 

Edit:

 

As other posters pointed out.

No matter if you are for or against add ons the moment you feel the urge to insult others over it anything you wrote has no meaning.

Since you're not able to respect others their opinion you not possible to debate with, call it the state of mind.

Edited January 8, 2012 by TheHauntingBard

[PjPablo]

Are we saying we want dev's to make encounters to be based on DPS doing x amount of DPS, Healers doing y amount of healing, and tanks holding z amount of threat etc etc?

 

This isn't my reason for not wanting Recount, i've settled that pages and pages back but do the pro-recount people say that they think 1: If Recount is added to the game that nobody will be influenced to use it who doesn't want to, 2: That devs won't start using it to make encounters which just literally mean you need to do x,y, and z on the meters to beat the boss (most WoW bosses do this and they very rarely swing from that formula), and 3: that they believe great players can't play brilliantly and have as good a time without the meters?

 

They already make encounters like that now. There are enrage timer bosses in the game now.

[Dazgra]

Here's a point for you, since I keep forgetting that I'm dealing with idiots -- You're retarded if you think it'll be a big win for the devs to just clone WoW's specific feature sets and enable identical varieties of mods.

 

Why? Whole. Different. Game. With a whole different focus and approach to doing what it does.

 

Yeah, I get it; lots of WoW migrants see a thing that looks kinda like WoW and offers certain game activities that are like WoW, and are going 'Oh maaaaan, this would be so much better if I had my munchies and my crunchies and my Recount and my DBM and my Warlock macro tool!"

 

As an assessment of their own personal experience, it's a non-debatable position; that's what they think and feel. Great; wunderbar; whatever.

 

Would it be good for the game? At best, it wouldn't be bad for it; at. Best.

 

More probably? It'll encourage people to play it like WoW. Guilds that do the endgame stuff will require their members to have this mod and that mod and that or that or that mod, will almost certainly have no meaningful interest in what the game's bigger selling point is (being immersive story) and look out spacebar, you're in for a vigorous workout!

 

 

Ya know what...that's all I'm gonna say. I've got a hundred things I could be doing that don't involve attempting to puncture yet another knot of groupthink on a forum.

 

For people that profess to relish a challenge, you sure shrivel up and retreat into peurile snark mighty quickly when your cherished positions are gutshot, by the by.

 

How's that for a point to ponder?

 

Cheers.

 

Ok, fine, whatever.

 

But please just answer me this:

 

WHAT IS GOING TO KEEP PEOPLE PLAYING AND PAYING IF NOT CHALLENGING ENDGAME CONTENT WITH STEADY GEAR PROGRESSION TO ADVANCE YOUR CHARACTER?

 

Rolling alt after alt is not going to tide people over for long, the fact that most quests are common to all characters (those that aren't class specific) compounding this.

[AlpsStranger]

No argument, however eloquent, can erase the fact that this is a WoW clone and will advance as such.

[Chosenxeno]

I said this yesterday but, I don't mind repeating it. The MMO pool is largely made up Ex-WOW or current WOW. Bioware can either cater to that crowd or it can be Rift. Rift was slow to add Addons and Macros and it went from 100+ servers to 20+.

 

The Raiders are the money in any MMO. If this game is not going to implement tools to Gauge performance or provide better information than it's obvious that the game does not take raiding seriously and people who planned on staying will just be visiting just as they only visited Telaara.

 

Those who stay will post their bitter You Tube videos about how everyone is still playing that "bad game" WOW or their lame "SW:TOR is better than WOW" comparison Vids. Even if it is better by that time it will be too late. The potential of snagging millions from the largest MMO pool will be lost and they will all have re-rolled as Pandas(lol).

 

If SW:TOR stays in the state it is atm then guess what? For the long term money players(Raiders) WOW IS better.

 

I dunno why this is even a Debate still. The most successful game of this genre allows Macros and Addons. It was foolish of Bioware and Trion not to follow suit out of the box.

 

Maybe that guy who was mouthing off from Activision is correct. Maybe he knows what I just pointed out.

 

All the "Go back to WOW" people need to realize who makes up the majority of the MMO population(How many Flashpoints have you left up while leveling already btw?) . It's people that have come from a very streamlined and very successful game. SW:TOR has enough to set it apart from WOW to be successful but only if it's as streamlined as well as WOW. Stop holding it back.

 

You can disagree with me if you want but we can read the Forum and see that the people of Azeroth are here in force. So build us a better WOW.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Chosenxeno

[DevonLoy]

Just one more post before I actually go and play the game for a while.

 

 

I think recount or any other program wouldn't change much for the most part, besides the

 

ability for hardcore raiders to be able to enforce more strict qualifications, because on all my

 

characters, whether it be my main character (a jedi knight tank) or my several dps alts (sentinels and bounty hunters) it never takes me very long to figure out how to put out the most damage with any class, and in terms of tanking, once you get seresu form and taunt, your set. I have been able to tank a 50K boss and all his little minions for the whole fight. WHile using my other skills to buff my healers defense and remove his threat. This is not a very difficult game in terms of figuring out what works for you and what doesnt. (Especially with the focus on solo play, it helps alot when you have to figure out how to beat this one really hard boss that you come within an inch of killing every time.) I say if you want recount use recount ( But like I said in one of my previous posts, the game isnt anywhere close to being third party compatible) ( Give like two months)

[Vyeth]

 

You can disagree with me if you want but we can rad the Forum and see that the people of Azeroth are here in force. So build us a better WOW.

 

Sorry... I puked a little in my mouth..

 

But you are right though, WoW players want WoW.. No matter what the title of the game is, if it's not WoW they will complain and if it is WoW they will complain as well..

 

I think the WoW players should get together and develop the perfect dream WoW we've all been dreaming about..

[Muanthuun]

I support it once I get the best gear in the game and can flex my epeen.