TheHauntingBard Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So all the recount haters. Why is this such a bad thing to see? -Damage taken -Death log -Interrupts -Dispels -Over healing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So all the recount haters. Why is this such a bad thing to see? -Damage taken -Death log -Interrupts -Dispels -Over healing Because that is not what most people want/use it for. They use it to stroke their peen with their leet DPS. Total anything doesn't matter to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichLather Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It does not matter if you support one. The fact is there is a very large portion of the playerbase that needs one, and Bioware should be embarrased and ashamed they released an MMO without one. This is something you get working before you start working on story, this is MMO basics 101. If you do not support a recount then turn it off, who cares if you support one or not?! You either use it or you dont. If having one negatively effects your playing then hang out with a better crowd. Your personal experience does not matter, what matters is that players have the basic tools at hand in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueCorsair Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So all the recount haters. Why is this such a bad thing to see? -Damage taken -Death log -Interrupts -Dispels -Over healing They don't like it because: A: They don't like being exposed as bad players. and/or B: They don't feel that a video game (i.e. something purely for fun) needs to be competitive, so having meters for guaging performance is inappropriate. I disagree, but these are the boiled-down sentiments that most who object seem to use. I say have the tool for those that want it - no one has ever *had* to use a damage meter, and in responsbile and mature hands, it's a useful tool to help people improve and enjoy the game *more*, not less. Just because one personally doesn't like something, or doesn't use a tool responsibly, is not sufficient reason to ban its use. Join a guild or group of players who don't use it like an e-peen meter - there are many out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swirly Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Lmao this again. Are bosses dying or are they enraging and you are the one dying? Boss = dead. GJ You = dead. Practice more! Why you need recount to cover these simple steps is beyond me. I can't wait for Tera and Guild Wars 2 to come out and see the " I need ma mfk'in recountz nowzzorz " threads there too. People talk about entitlement, there is your entitlement. People thinking devs owe them mods for some strange reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlaxitov Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 So how far in Naxx did you make it? Or in AQ40? all the way through AQ, got hung up on a couple bosses in naxx before they took it out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PjPablo Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I would rather have a player created addon community than one that has to be managed by BW. Players can design what they feel they need and BW doesn't have to spend resources to develop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 They don't like it because: A: They don't like being exposed as bad players. and/or B: They don't feel that a video game (i.e. something purely for fun) needs to be competitive, so having meters for guaging performance is inappropriate. I disagree, but these are the boiled-down sentiments that most who object seem to use. I say have the tool for those that want it - no one has ever *had* to use a damage meter, and in responsbile and mature hands, it's a useful tool to help people improve and enjoy the game *more*, not less. Just because one personally doesn't like something, or doesn't use a tool responsibly, is not sufficient reason to ban its use. Join a guild or group of players who don't use it like an e-peen meter - there are many out there. Have you ever met the average MMO player? I don't think so. I know for a fact that I am not a bad player, I haven't been a bad MMO player since I got my crap together so I could raid Naxx 40 in WoW -- And I -still- don't want a form of recount in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayana Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I absolutely do NOT support this for SWTOR. Even in WoW damage meters are causing problems in LFR (casual version of raiding), it's not needed for casual, fun gaming so why bring it here? Besides, who even uses the fickle recount anymore; where everyone's report is different depending on who they were standing next too? It's long since been outdone by skada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Have you ever met the average MMO player? I don't think so. I know for a fact that I am not a bad player, I haven't been a bad MMO player since I got my crap together so I could raid Naxx 40 in WoW -- And I -still- don't want a form of recount in the game. +1 People who want recount obviously suck at this game. I dont want no scrubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Damage meters are for bads. Everyone who knows how to play the game can do so with minimal mods, and this is certainly one that isn't required to succeed in heroic content (yes I'm talking about WoW and by extension SWTOR). Spoken like someone who has never seen heroic content or wiped repeatedly because of an enrage timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralesh Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The only people that do not Addons like recount are bad players that were exposed via recount. No one should have to carry. What you should be wondering is why you aren't putting out as much DPS or HPS as the other DPSers or Healers instead of whining. If we have wiped on a boss 5 times and: Dps: 1, and 2 are doing 3K and DPS 3 (who is somehow better geared than both) is doing 1K then I want to be able to see that and remove that player. I dunno why that's wrong. I swear Rift and SW:TOR are magnets for bad Ex-WOW and other MMOs. The Whining about Addons is proof. End Game raiding is about Output and Awareness. If a third party addon can guage/improve that better than the tools offered out-of-the-box than you should have them if you are going to be in a Competitive End Game Raiding Guild. If you don't like addons then don't use them or join a guild that requires you to have them. People act like that's not an option. Faster Bioware opens that API the better. This UI stinks for Healing. I manage to do OK though:) Your generalisation about this game being for bad players and quoting WoW raids as an achievement to be proud of makes sad for your lack of ability. WoW and it's "open, crutch happy UI" was designed for blind 3 year olds with an attention span of an amoeba. Nothing there to be proud of at all. I started raiding (as in properly) in EQ when a raid lasted 8+ hours and required something approaching skill as there were no crutches to help blind palsey suffering healers, Bards (my class) had to learn to twist 4-5 abilities constantly during the raid encounters, sometime having to switch in mezzes, kitse encounters and switch jobs without a beep and whistle from their ui to tell what to do. I've raided hard mode EQ2 (and before hard mode) since it was released. Now I am here to chill for a few years (and recover from rsi), not have some jumped up little muppet telling me why I am here and why I think your sad little crutches are good or bad. When you children have actually learnned to play a game without your "I can't play without it" crutches, then judge others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) I prefer one made by the modding community but I could settle for a Bioware version.Please Please God no. WoW has become Darth Vader, more machine than man now, because Blizz gave up and allowed the modding community to dictate their end game combat mechanics. Remove add-ons from WoW and there'd be a mutiny of its raidng faithful. I do hope BW exercises restraint on this. Edited January 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishbrewed Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Please God no. WoW has become Darth Vader, more machine than man now, because Blizz gave up and allowed the modding community to dictate their end game combat mechanics. Remove add-ons from WoW and there'd be a mutiny of its raidng faithful. I do hope BW exercises restraint on this. I agree with this man, the endgame in Warcraft pve wise relies heavily on third party ui features, which is poor game design. And somewhat lazy tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 If they are magnets, why are you here? You must have been pulled from a magnet right? Its whiny kids like you who gave MMO community's a bad name. Actually,the reason i'm here is because i've played both KOTORs. I also have time to do it because in August I retired from raiding in "another MMO" because making more money at a new job that requires me to be up a bit earlier took precedent. What I said is the Truth. People were exposed via Addon and instead of improving, they whine about Addons being bad. I was exposed early in my MMO raiding experience and 1st asked questions and then I read stuff. Then I became the best healer in my guild. The one thing I did forget to mention is the importance of reading plenty of blogs dedicated to your class/role. You never know what you may learn(This did more for me than any Zomg Addon! ever did). Your pointless name-calling gave me an opportunity to fix that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaegaknight Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I agree with this man, the endgame in Warcraft pve wise relies heavily on third party ui features, which is poor game design. And somewhat lazy tbh. Yep. Addons watered the game down. Way back in Vanilla when my guild was working on MC, we didn't really use addons. Not a single one and you know what? It was challenging and exciting. I'm not sure if there were many addons available at the time, but the point stands. I started having less fun and the game became less challenging with every addon I used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chosenxeno Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Your generalisation about this game being for bad players and quoting WoW raids as an achievement to be proud of makes sad for your lack of ability. WoW and it's "open, crutch happy UI" was designed for blind 3 year olds with an attention span of an amoeba. Nothing there to be proud of at all. I started raiding (as in properly) in EQ when a raid lasted 8+ hours and required something approaching skill as there were no crutches to help blind palsey suffering healers, Bards (my class) had to learn to twist 4-5 abilities constantly during the raid encounters, sometime having to switch in mezzes, kitse encounters and switch jobs without a beep and whistle from their ui to tell what to do. I've raided hard mode EQ2 (and before hard mode) since it was released. Now I am here to chill for a few years (and recover from rsi), not have some jumped up little muppet telling me why I am here and why I think your sad little crutches are good or bad. When you children have actually learnned to play a game without your "I can't play without it" crutches, then judge others. I stand by my statement. Now what? I played Vanguard and Rift too btw. They both have Addons. I'm pretty sure Vanguard has a difficulty on Par with EQ. Just when you thought you knew me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHauntingBard Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Originally Posted by TheHauntingBard So all the recount haters. Why is this such a bad thing to see? -Damage taken -Death log -Interrupts -Dispels -Over healing Answer: Because that is not what most people want/use it for. They use it to stroke their peen with their leet DPS. Total anything doesn't matter to them. Actually that's for what most people use it. It's a minority of people that are actually using recount for harassment. But people blow it up and make it look like worse than it is. This is for what recount is used in most raiding guilds/guild groups and amongst friends. Even the more civil pugs use it like this. You honestly want to tell me that bad rude pugs with out recount are 'better' in behaviour. Can tell you that's not the case. Edited January 7, 2012 by TheHauntingBard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacepuppy Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Please Please God no. WoW has become Darth Vader, more machine than man now, because Blizz gave up and allowed the modding community to dictate their end game combat mechanics. Remove add-ons from WoW and there'd be a mutiny of its raidng faithful. I do hope BW exercises restraint on this. Sorry but, the game still has 10 million or so subscribers. One of those many reasons is mods. I enjoy the fact Blizzard gives the community freedom to mod. You pick and choose what you want and nobody is forcing you to download any mods if you want a "pure" game. Many of the mods were so good Blizzard incorporated them into the default UI over the years. BioWare shouldn't be afraid to give their players this freedom. One can argue mods like GearScore destroyed WoW, but in reality GearScore was only a natural extension of a gear-based game. Anyways, I'm not against Recount. I didn't really use it in WoW, but its not like anybody forced me. And really, it doesn't matter what MMO you go to, you will always have that subset of number-crunchers who demand you install so and so mods for maximum efficiency. Not allowing mods wouldn't change this, really. Just go find a guild that suits your playstyle better. Edited January 7, 2012 by spacepuppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterShake Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Here's an idea, not sure if it'll get any love. I would love to have recount just for ME. I love being able to analyze my DPS in realtime, gather data, and know what abilities I need to prioritize in different situations, and how my stats effect my output. I'm about to resort to recording my spell damage in a spreadsheet and do the entire thing manually - that's how important it is to me in an MMO. There's no way you can make a logical argument against that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenyr Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 It's a good tool, but in the 'wrong hands' with the 'wrong head' can be a real b*tch tool. Cant remember how many players been kicked just cos they didnt do X amount of dps/dd which in a pug even in a hc is a bit of..., but on the other side been seeing peeps with a dps/dd worthy of 'go afk mate will boost you today and better dont f*** up our boss fight' Sooner or later the dps/dd will be some kinda of e-peen for players, and thats the side I dont like. I dont think that at this stage the game needs this tool or LFG/LFD tool, I rather be happy to see the game at the stage of real support over the different video card and cpu, true polishing of the video engine, more communication between us and them on forums, UI and the fight system etc etc and from there to build whatever players are asking. Let the BW guys focus on more important things make the game better and we'll see how this turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosedog Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Signing in support of a damage meter. I don't see why you guys who don't want to use them are so against them, no one is forcing you to use them and most of you say you pump out great dps/know where your threat is at without them so I don't see how some of us using a damage meter is even going to affect you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diling-Hiling Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 My opinion: Yes. It should be integrated into the game environment. Really nice, with pie charts and stuff. And direct character comparison. But! Two rules should apply. (1) In order to see another person in the chart, that person has to give an authorization. Like the check box for allowing other people to join your story areas. (2) Within groups, only the leader is able to open these statistics. He is then able to forward them to other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Sorry but, the game still has 10 million or so subscribers. One of those many reasons is mods. I enjoy the fact Blizzard gives the community freedom to mod. You pick and choose what you want and nobody is forcing you to download any mods if you want a "pure" game. Many of the mods were so good Blizzard incorporated them into the default UI over the years. BioWare shouldn't be afraid to give their players this freedom. One can argue mods like GearScore destroyed WoW, but in reality GearScore was only a natural extension of a gear-based game. Anyways, I'm not against Recount. I didn't really use it in WoW, but its not like anybody forced me. And really, it doesn't matter what MMO you go to, you will always have that subset of number-crunchers who demand you install so and so mods for maximum efficiency. Not allowing mods wouldn't change this, really. Just go find a guild that suits your playstyle better.And that number would drop by 15% or so (the number of tier raiders in WoW according to WOWprogress.com) if add-ons were eliminated forcing people to play the actual game. Perhaps limiting their use to the Public Test Servers for purposes of balance testing & possible incorporation into the game as patched features might be a good working compromise? Edited January 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proctor Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 **** Recount, add Combat Logs so that parsers can work out what they need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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