Do you support an in game version of Recount. Please give reasons for your answer.

[Bhorzo]

If a game needs "recount" or a parsed combat log to tell you why your group succeeded or failed... then you've got a terribly designed game on your hands.

[Forsbacka]

Whether a boss drops in 3:45 or 3:25 ... who cares?

 

And when it doesnt? Mur', yogg without guardians, HC rag are brutal fights and those dont allow anyone not doing their jobs.

[Hairless]

That's not the point. You don't have to have meters. Any good group of raiders should know who is doing well and who is not up to snuff.

 

My idea is just a unique way of doing things with some TOR flavor. It would make both sides of this argument happy.

 

Ok, let's assume that a good group of raiders can somehow accurately evaluate their raid without any sort of meters.

But what about the groups of raiders who aren't all good players? Your average guilds. How are they supposed to evaluate their raid accurately and fairly?

[Forsbacka]

If a game needs "recount" or a parsed combat log to tell you why your group succeeded or failed... then you've got a terribly designed game on your hands.

 

No, then you have only semi difficulty bosses to fight against.

[Vaegaknight]

Ok, let's assume that a good group of raiders can somehow accurately evaluate their raid without any sort of meters.

But what about the groups of raiders who aren't all good players? Your average guilds. How are they supposed to evaluate their raid accurately and fairly?

 

Please read my idea from two pages ago.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=5025&page=74

 

Edited for lack of words >_>

Edited January 7, 2012 by Vaegaknight

[GalacticKegger]

And when it doesnt? Mur', yogg without guardians, HC rag are brutal fights and those dont allow anyone not doing their jobs.

Again that would be combat logging, a nice feature of Recount. Unless used for maximizing target practice the rest is merely epeening. Edited January 7, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Bhorzo]

No, then you have only semi difficulty bosses to fight against.

 

I disagree with your personal opinion.

[TheHauntingBard]

I prefer one made by the modding community but I could settle for a Bioware version.

The main things I want to see are

 

-Damage taken

-Death log

-Interrupts

-Dispels

-Over healing

 

That's what makes recount important.

Damage meter is only important when there is a enrage timer and for the fun of learning your DPS class , since Bioware put enrage timers on every boss......

[Forsbacka]

I disagree with your personal opinion.

 

Many mediocre players do.

[seatown]

I raided in WoW for years, generally as a tank in guilds and pugs, and I would support a personal recount to let the player know what damage they themselves are doing so that they can better themselves but I've noticed that group damage meters tend to turn into a "Learn how to play noob" rather than constructive criticisms, people tend to lash out at the soft hitting dpsers (I myself have been guilty of this in my younger years) Granted being in a good guild alleviates this. So Im really on the fence about recount as it has its pros and cons... still would much rather have recount rather than Gearscore, what a joke that addon was...

[dirkos]

All these meters do is create problems.

 

For these meters to actually be pertinent then everyone in a certain class would have to have the same gear and skill tree. Otherwise all it does it encourage the first with the best gear to consistently get more of the best gear because guilds reward the top people. Meters just seem to reinforce the creation of a leading clique or caste. Which leads to drama and eventually guild burnout.

 

Remember this important idea - statistics of any sort are only as reliable as the methods you use to gather and interpret them. They can be misused very easily and often are.

 

This being said... I am certain you will get your meters because you will keep up with your barrage until they give in. I am sure there are even some stat crunchers at Bioware that even want the ridiculous things.

 

All the rest of us can do is avoid these guilds that use them in the future.

[Bhorzo]

Many mediocre players do.

 

Really? Is that the best you can do?

[darthdoll]

Many mediocre players do.

 

Only bad players need recount.

[TheHauntingBard]

The absence of recount creates more problems.

People who want to blame and pester others will not point the finger at them selves because recount is not there.

 

Recount/Parser has been always a protection for a healer against the amount of abuse in pugs.

In raid guilds and groups with friends recount people don't flame each other because of recount they play nice.

 

 

Only bad players need recount.

 

Stop trolling.

Edited January 7, 2012 by TheHauntingBard

[Hairless]

I actually considered a better solution to this.

 

What if - and this is a big what if.

 

What if, when Bioware adds guild capital ships... To those ships they add combat simulators.

 

You can fight weaker versions of bosses you've already fought in hologram form. For learning purposes. Positioning, etc, etc. To train new people or to warm up or to just get in a bit of practice. Let's say you loot an ID code when you defeat a new boss and you can input it in the guilds computer, this would work for operations, world bosses and flashpoints.

 

Included in this could be training droids which record your effective DPS on the ships computer. So everyone in the guild and ONLY in the guild could go to a computer screen much like the galaxy screen we see when going to new planets and everyone's HPS/DPS/TPS will be displayed in a handy dandy chart along with other neat stats, whatever they could come up with.

 

This would solve a bunch of issues, the people wanting to know their DPS will know their DPS and can train whenever and it would add something entirely new that I don't think MMO's have had before.

 

Just me dreaming. But... Yeah.

 

Edit: I didn't read the thread, or any of these threads really. So if this idea has already come up I apologize.

 

All I get out of this post is that people are extremely desperate to hide their DPS from other players.

[BlueCorsair]

Don't hate the tool - hate the people who mis-use it.

 

In the hands of responsible individuals, it's a great tool for evaluating one's own performance, and in a competitive environment (i.e. Operations) it's a great tool for evaluating who is doing their job properly. One can maturely and responsibly use the data gathered to improve and learn - it need not be used to abuse and insult people. Those who mis-use it are the problem - the tool itself is not. If you are with people who choose to be irresponsible with such information, that is their fault for being childish - ignore them and find others to play with. Nothing stops you from joining a respectable guild where people won't act like idiots.

 

Random nincompoops who solely use it for e-peen purposes are mis-users. Denying a useful tool to the population just because some people can't handle it responsibly is poor justification.

Edited January 7, 2012 by BlueCorsair

[Vaegaknight]

All I get out of this post is that people are extremely desperate to hide their DPS from other players.

 

Well. If the post wouldn't get removed because of it's insulting nature, I'd tell you what I get out of -your- posts.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Vaegaknight

[Forsbacka]

Really? Is that the best you can do?

 

Sorry, was just guessing, well maybe you are awesome player. But how would you know, or more importantly how would your guild know? Maybe they could add feature where pops up a box where everyone can choose if they are good, bad or average player and everyone else just have to take their word for it.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Forsbacka

[Kunitsukami]

And again, you demonstrate your utter lack of knowledge in this matter.

There are tabs that show "Damage Taken" "Damage Done" "Healing Taken" "Healing Done" "Interrupted" "Decursed" and etc.

Those are pretty good information, other than DPS, to help identify good and bad players.

Good player would obviously have less damage taken(It also shows where the damage came from so you can tell if someone failed at a firewall or pulled aggro). He would also have more interrupts and decurses done.

And you can also look at the Damage Done tab to see how much actual damage he did during the course of the fight. It also shows who have been dpsing the adds/spikes and who haven't.

 

Damage meters are incredibly useful, it's not just for looking at DPS and HPS.

I literally said that in the post.... you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

As I said though, you can't know all these things for certain before you take the person on, you can however check their DPS pretty quickly and keep them on until the boss because of it.

 

Just ssshhh smallmind.

[Vaegaknight]

I literally said that in the post.... you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

As I said though, you can't know all these things for certain before you take the person on, you can however check their DPS pretty quickly and keep them on until the boss because of it.

 

Just ssshhh smallmind.

 

That, or he's just trolling. Given his response to my idea, I'm going to with he's just trolling for the sake of trolling.

[Hairless]

I literally said that in the post.... you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

As I said though, you can't know all these things for certain before you take the person on, you can however check their DPS pretty quickly and keep them on until the boss because of it.

 

Just ssshhh smallmind.

 

Um no you didn't say that. Quote your own post where you said it.

[Chosenxeno]

The only people that do not Addons like recount are bad players that were exposed via recount. No one should have to carry. What you should be wondering is why you aren't putting out as much DPS or HPS as the other DPSers or Healers instead of whining.

 

If we have wiped on a boss 5 times and:

 

 

Dps: 1, and 2 are doing 3K and DPS 3 (who is somehow better geared than both) is doing 1K then I want to be able to see that and remove that player. I dunno why that's wrong.

 

I swear Rift and SW:TOR are magnets for bad Ex-WOW and other MMOs. The Whining about Addons is proof. End Game raiding is about Output and Awareness. If a third party addon can guage/improve that better than the tools offered out-of-the-box than you should have them if you are going to be in a Competitive End Game Raiding Guild. If you don't like addons then don't use them or join a guild that requires you to have them. People act like that's not an option.

 

Faster Bioware opens that API the better. This UI stinks for Healing. I manage to do OK though:)

[darthdoll]

The only people that do not Addons like recount are bad players that were exposed via recount. No one should have to carry. What you should be wondering is why you aren't putting out as much DPS or HPS as the other DPSers or Healers instead of whining.

 

If we have wiped on a boss 5 times and:

 

 

Dps: 1, and 2 are doing 3K and DPS 3 (who is somehow better geared than both) is doing 1K then I want to be able to see that and remove that player. I dunno why that's wrong.

 

I swear Rift and SW:TOR are magnets for bad Ex-WOW and other MMOs. The Whining about Addons is proof. End Game raiding is about Output and Awareness. If a third party addon can guage/improve that better than the tools offered out-of-the-box than you should have them if you are going to be in a Competitive End Game Raiding Guild. If you don't like addons then don't use them or join a guild that requires you to have them. People act like that's not an option.

 

Faster Bioware opens that API the better. This UI stinks for Healing. I manage to do OK though:)

 

If they are magnets, why are you here? You must have been pulled from a magnet right? Its whiny kids like you who gave MMO community's a bad name.

Edited January 7, 2012 by darthdoll

[Bhorzo]

Sorry, was just guessing, well maybe you are awesome player. But how would you know, or more importantly how would your guild know? Maybe they could add feature where pops up a box where everyone can choose if they are good, bad or average player and everyone else just have to take your word for it.

 

I think you may have mis-read my post.

 

What I was suggesting was that a well-designed game should have in-game notifications & mechanics that let players know if they are failing at an encounter. The encounter should also let players know why they are failing. That's how good encounters would be designed.

 

If a game needs an extra piece of software or two, a complex spreedsheeting analysis, and a part-time accountant and/or statistician - in order to properly determine the cause of failure - then it's a poorly designed game, IMHO.

[Kunitsukami]

ROFL. Recount isn't the reason why people call out those things.

 

If the raid leader is calling out more DPS, it's because adds aren't dying, enrage is about to happen, boss hp is too high for phase transition, and etc. You don't look at Recount for these information. Probably DBM. Derp. He's not a cheerleader shouting "YEA MORE DPS!" while monitoring everyone's dps on Recount.

 

"more healing on x and y"

You look at unit/raid frames for that. Again, not Recount.

 

"watch your aggro"

Threat meter. Not Recount.

 

Have you ever been in a proper raid?

 

You have never raided if this is what you think. Also learn to put everything your posting into one post.

 

People will always call on meters if they're checking meters, which people always are. Hell any raid in Cata with a guild people are always looking at DPS meters, and comments are absolutely always made. If you're pugging before iLevel people asked DPS levels and checked gear.

 

Also what you said about DBM doesn't make sense. The raid leader won't call out about DPS because of things that should show up in DBM.... unless its a spank and tank phase maybe.

 

You can look at recount for healing done, that post is redundant.

 

Aggro you look at something like Omen Threat meter yes, I was trying to say that all meters of this type detract from what is going on, and that a lot of people will say that if your doing humongous amounts of DPS because of what Recount is showing they'll think you're more likely to pull aggro, which is true but not useful if you have a tank worth their salt.

 

Like I said... sshhh.