Israel Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Just to be clear, this thread is advocating an in-game Bioware built tool and not a third-party addon. Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc. I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance. Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism. The inevitability of undesirable behavior isn't something we can escape in a massive online community, so the real question is... Would you rather be castigated based on factual data or would you rather take your chances with the "hunch" of a self seeking jerk? With Recount Jerk: Dude please leave the group your DPS sucks. Without Recount Jerk: Dude please leave the group you are wearing a green helm and your gear isn't good enough for this encounter. (You get kicked, even if you were top DPS) - EDIT: It would also totally eliminate "recount spam". They could disable all data broadcasts... If everyone has access to the information there would be no need to broadcast the results. EDIT UPDATE: - During the speed-fire round starting at 13:00 in the video. Georg confirms an out of game COMBAT LOG! People will have access to combat logs please bring a recount version in the game! I think Georg Zoeller understands our pain for not having a combat log at launch, let's hope they "get it right" and quickly. People who don't like Recount. Edited December 15, 2011 by Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigguyonarock Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Oh hell yea! Let's get this mammoth started again. No. Why? I believe addon developers could do a better job at satisfying any and all concerns of those players who would use a Combat Meter/Parser. I don't mean that as a slight against Bioware UI staff. They just have more important stuff to worry about. Edited December 13, 2011 by Bigguyonarock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiodine Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) I use recount in WoW, but most people know it is a bit broken even in WoW, it is ok, but in no means is accurate enough to tell if someone is doing good DPS or not. You compare version of people's data-sets and the number sometime don't add up the same. Damage done is a little bit closer to the truth than DPS. And even then DPS is not a good standard. Some who is dead 90% of the fight can have a higher DPS score than someone that survived the encounter by a large margin. Edited December 13, 2011 by Kiodine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellbrass Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Recount is an addon i like to use in WoW to get an idea of my own DPS and if its improving or not as i get new gear. I'd never use it as a reason to kick someone from a party, but thats just me. So i wouldnt mind ToR having an equivalent system available. Just as long as we never see an appearance of a ToR frickin' Gearscore. That add-on was the bane of WoW for too long. It let *******es get away with being rude, it made the game lag more as it wasted bandwidth transmitting. Just ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 I believe addon developers could do a better job at satisfying any and all concerns of those players who would use a Combat Meter/Parser. I don't mean that as a slight against Bioware UI staff. They just have more important stuff to worry about. That's a respectable response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel Posted December 13, 2011 Author Share Posted December 13, 2011 (edited) Just as long as we never see an appearance of a ToR frickin' Gearscore. That add-on was the bane of WoW for too long. It let *******es get away with being rude, it made the game lag more as it wasted bandwidth transmitting. Just ugh. Yeah, Gearscore serves no purpose. Edited December 13, 2011 by Israel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hosebeast Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Israel : Recount is not just a "damage meter"... it is a graphical interface which allows you to view group activity in the combat log i.e. Damage Done over the duration of the fight by each player, Friendly Fire, Damage Taken, Healing Done, Absorbs, Healing Taken, Overhealing Done, Deaths, DOT Uptime, HOT Uptime, Player Combat Activity, Dispels, The Dispelled, Interrupts, Ressers, CC Breakers, Resources Gained, etc. I believe these tools play an important role in identifying whether a player is doing well or under-performing. Nevertheless, these graphs should be the starting point – an indicator that you should be looking more closely at the situation. Used wisely, a tool like this could greatly improve guild performance. Some individuals are fearful of an "elitist" backlash caused by the improper use of such a tool. Nevertheless, people have also argued that this tool would actually curb elitist behavior based on FACTS and DATA rather than Gear, Achievements, Spec, Gut Feeling or Favoritism. I would have to agree with what Israel is saying here as well as it is a tool I have regularly used in the past to gauge my own personal performance in different roles and settings to see how and where I could potentially improve, or where as a team we could improve.... not to pick apart my teammates performance in order to belittle or embarass them. When properly used it is a fantastic tool imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamjee Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yes, it's an essential component of modern mmo design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agemnon Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I don't like recount because people could be kicked because of their gear or DPS but you need to dungeon in order to acquire the gear to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeroXs Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yes because I want to know if the DPSers are doing 1 ability a minute or doing their job properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 No...(grabs shovel to bury dead horse deeper underground) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemintiri Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 When properly used it is a fantastic tool imo. That's the key. It's fine in a raid setting but I absolutely hated it being spammed in 5man PuGs. Especially since it was usually the DPS on top doing the spamming and no one was asking for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yes. It's a valuable tool for evaluating the performance of your character and playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaluria Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 No, it creates an atmosphere where you have to have this addon to play the game and it cause too many people who percieve their eliteness and then push it onto others. No we don't need recount. People played without addons for many years just watch what you are doing and figure out how to do your own rotations. It creates lazy gamer syndrome having things figured out for you. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFifteyOneD Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Oh hell yea! Let's get this mammoth started again. No. Why? I believe addon developers could do a better job at satisfying any and all concerns of those players who would use a Combat Meter/Parser. I don't mean that as a slight against Bioware UI staff. They just have more important stuff to worry about. I understand where you are coming from (look at any Blizzard implement system and the 3rd party version). But I would counter argue that with how long recount (and other better versions) have been out that bioware's UI guys (who Im sure some have played WoW at some point) would be able to nearly replicate recount and even add in TOR specific features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aowar Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I support recount period. In or out of game I do not care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magwa Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Absolutely not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cryptoling Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 I enjoy competitive raiding and would like a tool to be able to know what my DPS is around so I know that if I'm falling behind that I'm doing something wrong. It'd be nice as a healer to look at my heals so if I run out of force I can tell if it's because i was being stupid and using inefficient heals. It'd be nice as a tank to see what my mitigation is like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImOverPowered Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Get this trash out of here, right now we'er nerd raging about not being able to get into EGA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mewnor Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 No. I like to watch films and generally toss it off during large raids. Recount finds me out. I would prefer to be able to slack moar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordanvind Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 No, I don't like what WoW became with all its addons and I prefer if that kind of stuff stays out from TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kagespartan Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yes, it's an essential component of modern mmo design. This statement is a non-answer, at least in terms of the question actually being posed. It's not an essential part of modern MMO design-- It's never been part of the basic design of any MMO I've ever seen. If such a thing has EVER been present, it's as an add-on. Now for myself, Recount is an unnecessary thing. It's inaccurate, as was stated earlier, prone to misuse by extremists, and all around annoying. The three days I used a DPS meter in WoW, I found myself paying more attention to it than I did the fight in front of me, trying to squeeze the greatest performance from what I had to hand rather than relaxing and having fun. Three weeks thereafter, I was booted by said extremists from two raids and a handful of dungeons for not doing the required amount of DPS(in several of those cases, I was doing fairly close to their quoted minimum numbers). If you have a tool, someone will misuse it to the detriment of all. Especially when that tool is not designed by the makers of the game in question. No matter what you do, there are going to be the sort of arsehole mentioned, and they'll make up a reason to hate you if they can. I recommend leaving such things out of the game, and at least making them work at it. The only add-on I use in WoW now is Bagnon, and TOR made that superfluous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kagespartan Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 Yes because I want to know if the DPSers are doing 1 ability a minute or doing their job properly. THIS is the wrong attitude. It's a game, not a job. We're paying to play this thing, not the other way around. For the record, Tanks and Healers fail too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancien Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 When properly used it is a fantastic tool imo. Properly is the key word. Judging by the massive amounts of bad behavior we've seen on the forums today I can only surmise that maybe .05% of the population would use it correctly. The rest of the kids will use it to kick people out of raids, min/max, and freak out in groups about their constant need for the best gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted December 13, 2011 Share Posted December 13, 2011 The rest of the kids will use it to kick people out of raids, min/max, and freak out in groups about their constant need for the best gear. What's wrong with min/maxing? If someone wants to min/max their character, surely that's their business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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