(From Taugrim.com)SWTOR Has Repeated RIFT’s Mistakes in Endgame PVP

[GRINnBARRETT]

I've had my disagreements with Taugrim in the past (Rift rogues!), but here's the thing:

 

1. You can have an intelligent conversation with him concerning pvp. He won't go flying off the collar just b/c you don't agree with him or play his same style.

2. He's usually right on par with his overall pvp game assessments.

3. He has more pvp "common sense" then some pvp devs I know

4. He's "nail on the head" in his latest blog post.

[AlyxDinas]

I hate to poke my head into this troll thread, but being in the Secret World closed beta I think I need to temper everyone's expectations (as people seem to be lauding that game in this thread for some reason). There are massive problems with that game at this stage that go beyond polish. I'm not gonna say it will be horrible, but people really need to temper their expectations of that game in particular or else they're gonna be very disappointed .

 

Having played the game as well, I'd add my voice to this statement as well. TSW does few things right. Those things, they do pretty dam well. The majority is amazingly underwhelming.

[Pekish]

like any MMORPG will be from here and forever... perfection actually not perfection but "dept" come only with years and years of fine tuning MMORPG at release will ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be mediocre

 

and people will always scream fail to everything ruining the chance the game has to grow over time

 

there is not enough money involved to go full FEAT at release. (then some software house throw away a good bunch of money in voice acting but that's not the point there will never be enough money to make a game that please everybody)

 

people are so naive

Edited May 21, 2012 by Pekish

[xxdragonragexx]

Look to think that is crazy. It could be a time commitment or real life schedule keeping him from being able to get to the top 3 spots in any game. Ive been in a top 50 world guild in wow since tbc, ive made glad multple times on 2 seperate toons, i was in the top rift pvp guild before the ranks went from 8 to 40, i am playing in one of the best if not the best pvp guilds in swtor and had one of the top 3 bh healers pre 1.2 and now top 3 op healers since 1.2 and i have used taugrims blog for a long time. Its not about his position itshis understanding of mechanics and of way games work. He was spot on about rift and swtor future. His guide for cleric dps/healer hybrids was so good that i used it to kill him in rift on daybllind server before i was r6 and he was in r8 gear.

 

Its not about being the best no one can ever be #1 forever and to think you ever know it all is to only become orse by refusing to listen and learn. I read blogs and get excellent info from different views and it all works when put together correctly.

 

I trust Taugrim but u know who i dont trust the bioware devs and no one can prove the opposite since the proof is in your server population. Taugrims blog to one articel has more replies then 90% of bioware servers have players logged in. Taugrims is a great blogger who knows his stuff and i would only hope a company like bioware (who by the way invited him to be one of the first peple to test swtor pvp because they trust his opinion) would hire him to consult them on how to make pvp better.

 

I think the argument was that he has 20 years of pvp experience so people should listen to him.

The counter argument was that no one should really listen to him cuz he isn't a good player and never was a good player which means he doesn't know his stuff or the game.

 

In MMO, it is very easy to do great, all a person has to do is know his stuff or know each classes abilities to be able to counter or create counter strategies. If you dedicate your free time to doing great, it is easy to do so in MMO. Rather than blogging or talking about games, he could be playing them.

 

It is like sports radio talk shows, people can say anything but they can't really play. Doesn't mean they are right or wrong. It just means everyone has an opinion.

[anticept]

It only appears so to players who posses even less skill, aka below average.

 

trying your best and still be average, is not the same as succeeding and being pro.

 

USING colors doesn´t make you any more Pr0 than this Taugrim is and really how can you describe anyone as pro when all of us pay for our gametime or do you consider your dad paying for yours making you pro...

[anticept]

Apparently you missed the interview.

 

Balancing is not the same as their overall vision. Balancing is simply a way to make sure nothing is out of alignment.

- Expertise was changed so TTK changed so pvp got more messy.

- Gear was changed you had a way better chance with cent gear against bm gear than you have with rec against WH or even new BM so pvp got more messy.

- Most healer class mechanics was changed and not for better so pvp got more messy.

+ Balancing changes which made pvp more messy.

 

Not sure where you pull out your opinions but are you sure we´ve played the same game ...

[Brendicus]

every pg can do everything everybody geared the same it's a FPS and i dont like FPS

 

Every pg can do everything, everybody geared the same, it's a balanced playing field, and I don't like balanced playing fields.

 

 

Here, I fixed that for you.

[anticept]

He has 3 reasons PVP is bad in SWTOR:

 

- Gear scales too much between tiers:

Does he mean between recruit and BM? Yea the difference is a bit large, but BM is so easy to get now it doesn't really matter. The difference between BM and War Hero isnt that much.

 

- He said "before Patch 1.2, SWTOR had the best class balance of any MMORPG on the market."

Really? .....

 

- He calls SWTOR "grindy"

Must be his first MMO...

 

Fully modded oranges vs cent even champ was pretty darn good you could even beat bm´s or atleast make sure they was low enough to be killed by the next guy gear with exp. wasn´t an issue in pre 1.2.

 

What was so OP in pre 1.2 ? Ops did insane burst they got batted 2-3 times and were inline with the most of classes any healer class could be made to run for his/her life by single dps if you knew what you was doing there really wasn´t any topdog class in pre 1.2 mostly just better players beat you with any class.

 

Well BM bags was pretty bad unless you was extremely lucky guess you was lucky so you have no idea. Oh ye "" doesn´t mean that you should take it literally.

[Macecrest]

I really like Taugrim's blogs and almost always agree with his opinions on SWTOR PvP. I felt let down by 1.2 balance changes, but I hope this game gives me reason to resubscribe in the coming months.

 

Based on the 1.2 changes, the designers seemingly took what players felt was really good balance and threw it out the window. BW apparently did not hear that players liked most of the pre-1.2 balance, so they came up with a new model (rightfully termed a "gibfest"). Clearly there was a miscommunication. Or more to the point--a lack of communication.

 

So, what should BioWare do first? Open up the lines of communication with PvPers. It is abundantly clear that the designers didn't know what we liked about the old system. Scrap the "wizard behind the curtain" mentality and level with your customers to see what needs to stay and what needs to change. Dedicate a section of the Q&A to discuss your design paradigm for PvP. Remaining silent for too long only tells players that there is no real design goal and you are, in fact, taking shots in the dark to see what sticks.

[Masturomenos]

Unfortunately when he bought WH over BM it just proved he doesn't understand the game, and while he may be able to give good advice in RIFT, it's hard to take anybody seriously who doesn't even understand the basics of a games stat system.

 

I also dont agree with gear choices he bought. I just know he understands how games work. I also wouldnt buy thosem items in his order. Personally i go higest endurance bm peices, 4 set then work my way down. Id rather get as much bm gear as possible over one peice wh then recruit.

 

The point is there are many blogs the way to do it right is read thm all take what works for you and apply. U face many different mindsets and its good to read many opinions.

 

Whether he is a #1 player or not doesnt mean his ideas and thoughts should be discouned. I think hes one of the best bloggers when he writes about mmos and the classes he makes guides for. I agree with his statements about swtor and its not like the population is rising it going down. Id rather more people tell bioware what they are doing wrong thn agree and the game tank. I love the franchise too much and the pvp is very good mechanics wise. Resolve when understood makes a great DR. I just dont see how nyone whos pointing out issues we all see and know about is discredited due to his pvp ranking.

 

You can be the best basketball, ootball, baseball player and ur team can never win a game all season that doesnt mean it should be thrown away when great points are made about issues in the game.

[noladev]

Why is this guy important and why should I care about his opinions on balance?

 

From his "Gaming History" page it looks like he has played mmos for about 20 years as a PvPer, yet never been a top level player (or even high level).

 

For anyone to claim they know absolutely what is balanced and what is not, especially when there is not currently any ranked so we can see what the best do best with is arrogant at best.

 

I followed the guy in Rift. Dudes a beast.

[Sickboy_]

The post shows a distinct lack of perspective.

 

That blissful land of pre-1.2 PvP was *way more* grindy and imbalanced than its current state. In fact, for the first month, geared out 50s were farming lowlevels in quest greens. After that, you had to play lots and lots of Champ bag lottery and then Battlemaster bag lottery before you were geared. Now, a week of dailies and you're in full BM or as close as doesn't matter. If Ranked WZs were actually live, you'd be in full War Hero amazingly soon after that.

 

My guess: he was an early leveler and PvPer with his previous character, and missed how nasty it used to be to start PvP a few weeks or a month after everyone else. Being a recruit-clad newbie is much, much more forgiving.

 

What I dont understand is why he thinks he should be able to compete with players in augmented war hero when hes in recruit. and yeah like that other guy said he would have been much better off if he bought BM instead of wasting all his comms on the WH mainhand.

[sauerkraut]

-------------------------------------- Edited May 22, 2012 by sauerkraut

[Wintervoid]

I have played with and against Taugrim in SWTOR and RIFT.

 

In RIFT I met him while he was testing and working on a Cleric build that I had not seen before. A month or so later, his build was a FoTM for Clerics. He did not have the heal output of some of the other builds, but he had mobility, durability and a near endless mana supply.

 

I think there were some other PvPers that were more skilled in Rift (Dissb for example) but Taugrim offers quite a bit to the community with the way he explores game mechanics. I would never want to discourage someone that puts that kind of effort into helping the community.

[iNeXxS]

To everyone QQing about him buying the WH mainhand first: He is talking about his Gunslinger and buying a weapon with a 61 barrel is the single best way to get a DPS increase when you're a class that does mostly white damage.

 

Also, Taugrim may not be the single greatest PvPer in the world, but he knows more about the game than 98% of the community , that's why he's considered a good player. On our server, playing against a Maven pre-made with Taugrim is almost always loss and playing with them is almost always a win. I like to think of it like sports. Most professional sports coaches were not superstar athletes when they played the game, but they could understand the game and take advantage of their knowledge.

[justntrue]

To everyone QQing about him buying the WH mainhand first: He is talking about his Gunslinger and buying a weapon with a 61 barrel is the single best way to get a DPS increase when you're a class that does mostly white damage.

 

Also, Taugrim may not be the single greatest PvPer in the world, but he knows more about the game than 98% of the community , that's why he's considered a good player. On our server, playing against a Maven pre-made with Taugrim is almost always loss and playing with them is almost always a win. I like to think of it like sports. Most professional sports coaches were not superstar athletes when they played the game, but they could understand the game and take advantage of their knowledge.

 

Amen to that. And, to add to your point, another way to look at it, is that while an individual's ability may not be fantastic, it is perhaps their contribution to the whole that is a greater benefit to the team.

 

Consider what he brings to a team:

 

Leadership

Reliably good tactics

Reasonable equipment

Communication (voice chat)

 

IMO, even the top 2 or 3 are enough to give many teams a serious run for their money. Add to that voice chat and seamless communication, and you've got a top contending team. Now, I'm sorry, but individual skill isn't even mentioned.

 

Since when was there an "I" in team?

 

If one person brings coordination to the other 7, good luck. I'll take 7 organised players over one hotshot PVPer with excellent skill any day of the week.

 

I play with 4 man premades all the time. And while I don't claim to be great or even good 1 vs 1, I sure as hell can organise myself and 3 buddies and we are a tough team to beat every time. Not because we're the best 1 vs 1, but because we are coordinated.

 

If all you lamers trying to undermine him want to PVP 1 on 1, why don't you take it up with him on Mike Tysons Punch-Out. Back in the old days, that was how to determine who was the champ of PVP.

[Lithy]

 

I think there were some other PvPers that were more skilled in Rift (Dissb for example) but Taugrim offers quite a bit to the community with the way he explores game mechanics. I would never want to discourage someone that puts that kind of effort into helping the community.

 

I completely agree about friendly helpful people. Nothing against them. I am not trying to discourage either, it's just however great he may have been in RIFT I feel he doesn't fully understand the game(tor) yet from that article. When he gets more in tune with the game, I'd be happy to see him be more active and helpful when he gets a firmer grasp on the way the game works.

 

To everyone QQing about him buying the WH mainhand first: He is talking about his Gunslinger and buying a weapon with a 61 barrel is the single best way to get a DPS increase when you're a class that does mostly white damage.

 

I'm sorry, but my main is his mirror and you arn't doing damage if you're dead. I see people do that all the time on my server. Go for weapons fresh at 50 and ignore everything else. Guess what. They die in seconds. It sounds good on paper, but in reality its not a great choice.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Lithy

[iNeXxS]

I completely agree about friendly helpful people. Nothing against them. I am not trying to discourage either, it's just however great he may have been in RIFT I feel he doesn't fully understand the game(tor) yet from that article. When he gets more in tune with the game, I'd be happy to see him be more active and helpful when he gets a firmer grasp on the way the game works.

 

He completely understands SWTOR... Read some of his other stuff. He provides some of the best information you can get for Vanguards (his main class). Taugrim is fully aware of the game mechanics and he's been playing since the Betas, which makes it obvious that he's not a "noob", which is what you're basically implying.

[Lithy]

He completely understands SWTOR... Read some of his other stuff. He provides some of the best information you can get for Vanguards (his main class). Taugrim is fully aware of the game mechanics and he's been playing since the Betas, which makes it obvious that he's not a "noob", which is what you're basically implying.

 

I'm sorry but that what that post paints. A lack of understand of expertise and stat distribution priorities. Now I'll give you that maybe he didn't word it properly, and his other posts are much better and clear. And I'll be honest that I don't really care if they do or they don't. Maybe he's the best vanguard in the entire world but he built that gunslinger to die horribly in it's first few matches and thus doesn't get any sort of accurate depiction at all until he's geared.

 

Edit: I decided to look over some of his other posts and here's what I got. he understands Assault Vanguard pretty well, has some decent advice. If I leveled a vanguard I'd probably take the time to listen to him on the class.

 

Pulled from the 1.2 blog in the section about 1.1.5

 

He thought pre 1.2 Mara's were OP, yes they had good utility but they needed buffs, not nerfs. Were they over buffed? Maybe. Hard to be sure.

 

He thought scoundrels being able to 1v1 in small scale skirmishes was bad even with the weakness of extended fighting... okay then. Wasn't that their job? I don't play one and the nerfs were very uncalled for. Took away what they were supposed to do which was kill priority targets in short engagements.

 

Scrapper Scoundrels / Concealment Operatives could easily gib people in smaller-scale fights (although they faced the same issue that other Rogue classes have faced in longer-scale combat)

this was their job and it was taken away.

 

The friendly pull and sprint for Sages / Sorcs gave them a significant tactical advantage in group PVP, especially compared to the other 2 healing ACs

 

And stealth gave ops a significant tactical advantage, leaps and pulls give tank techs that too... guardians...etc. everything has a niche. That's the point.

 

So after reading through his blog I've come to conclusion he understand his class very well, is a great person to talk to about it but balance between classes and mechanics is something I can't trust him on after reading some of this.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Lithy

[Macroecon]

I think this Taugrim fellow makes some good points. However I think he underestimates the impact that ranked warzones will have. Once ranked warzones arrive, every player that already has a full BM set will move to ranked warzones. For the simple reason that they will no longer be subjected to a 3:1 currency depreciation in commendations. Thus the level 50 PvP gear imbalance that Taugrim laments will be largely nullified. New 50's will gear up in normal warzones. BM and higher geared 50's will be in ranked warzones. It is interesting to note that this is what was originally intended when 1.2 was rolled out. But that was scuppered by the removal of ranked warzones.

[Lithy]

I think this Taugrim fellow makes some good points. However I think he underestimates the impact that ranked warzones will have. Once ranked warzones arrive, every player that already has a full BM set will move to ranked warzones. For the simple reason that they will no longer be subjected to a 3:1 currency depreciation in commendations. Thus the level 50 PvP gear imbalance that Taugrim laments will be largely nullified. New 50's will gear up in normal warzones. BM and higher geared 50's will be in ranked warzones. It is interesting to note that this is what was originally intended when 1.2 was rolled out. But that was scuppered by the removal of ranked warzones.

 

Exactly and it's something 90% of people ignore. They could have made Warhero gear unobtainable as said earlier, like they did some of the expertise colour crystals (black purple) etc. they gave us a way to get it if we wanted, they were meant to be earned through ranked warzones. And it's what he's ignoring as well, intended mechanics VS workarounds. There is almost no grind in this game, i'll dare say this is the least grindy game I have EVER played on the MMO market. You blow through content and gear upgrades so fast it's not even funny. Warhero will be exactly the same once you can obtain it as designed.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Lithy

[Sharee]

I think this Taugrim fellow makes some good points. However I think he underestimates the impact that ranked warzones will have. Once ranked warzones arrive, every player that already has a full BM set will move to ranked warzones. For the simple reason that they will no longer be subjected to a 3:1 currency depreciation in commendations. Thus the level 50 PvP gear imbalance that Taugrim laments will be largely nullified. New 50's will gear up in normal warzones. BM and higher geared 50's will be in ranked warzones. It is interesting to note that this is what was originally intended when 1.2 was rolled out. But that was scuppered by the removal of ranked warzones.

 

The article is also misleading. He correctly points out how huge the difference between war hero and recruit gear is, but then goes on to claim you need to grind hundreds of warzones for war hero gear to be competitive. That's a misleading claim.

 

Difference between recruit and WH is huge, but the difference between WH and BM is not, and BM is much easier to obtain than WH(a week or so). Even with just the five most important BM pieces(MH/OH/chest/legs/helm) a new player will already see a big improvement in his effectiveness and will start feeling competitive for anything but facing a geared-up premade. I know, i went through the recruit phase with four different fresh level 50's.

[noladev]

Glad Taugrim is telling the truth even if Bioware and the fans don't want to hear it. 1.2 balance changes really killed the game.

This is what happens when you listen to dps players...lol. You think people main dps because its hard?

[iNeXxS]

I'm sorry but that what that post paints. A lack of understand of expertise and stat distribution priorities.

I still don't understand what you're saying. With the RWZ comms he had the second he got level 50 (3500), instead of buying a single WH set peice, he bought the WH mainhand (most likely Field Medic) , which granted him more expertise and stat gain than the first option.

 

WH Field Medic Pistol: +151 EXP, +87 Cunn, +111 End, +61 Crit, +53 Surge

 

Recruit Field Medic Pistol: +69 EXP, +59 Cunn, +62 End, +69 Crit, +42 Surge

 

Total stat gain: +82 EXP, +28 Cunn, +49 End, -8 Crit, +9 Surge

 

___________________________________________________________

 

WH Field Tech Jacket: +110 EXP, +87 Cunn, +93 End, +80 Power, +53 Acc

 

Recruit Field Tech Jacket: +69 EXP, +69 Cunn, +62 End, +36 Power, +42 Acc

 

Total stat gain: +41 EXP, +18 Cunn, +31 End, +44 Power, +11 Acc

 

As you can see, the stat gain is better if you go WH Mainhand over Recruit Mainhand than WH jacket over Recruit Jacket.

[cashogy]

To everyone QQing about him buying the WH mainhand first: He is talking about his Gunslinger and buying a weapon with a 61 barrel is the single best way to get a DPS increase when you're a class that does mostly white damage.

 

Also, Taugrim may not be the single greatest PvPer in the world, but he knows more about the game than 98% of the community , that's why he's considered a good player. On our server, playing against a Maven pre-made with Taugrim is almost always loss and playing with them is almost always a win. I like to think of it like sports. Most professional sports coaches were not superstar athletes when they played the game, but they could understand the game and take advantage of their knowledge.

 

it is absolutely not the best way to give yourself the best DPS or defense increase for PvP. expertise is more important than any other stat, by far.

 

with 5500 warzone comms you can buy at least 5 pieces of BM gear. gearing in this game is very, very easy if you do it properly. wasting all your comms on 1 single item as a fresh 50 is the complete wrong way to gear up