(From Taugrim.com)SWTOR Has Repeated RIFT’s Mistakes in Endgame PVP

[Dmasterr]

I'd also like to agree with an earlier poster who said there are no pro gamers left in tor. Why the hell would there be? Comical that the pvp in Secret World is even better than this pile of ****.

 

I am still left in tor. WHY? i got nothing else better to do.

 

WoW, been there done that... won 2 tournaments, participated in 4. Also old game is old.

[Kaarsa]

And yeah i think most of us agree.Good blog by Taugrim as always.This man knows more

about your own PvP BioWare then your PvP team.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/05/20/swtor-has-repeated-rifts-mistakes-in-endgame-pvp/

 

So again, post from guy who makes a glaring mistake at the begining (WH main instead of being half-BM geared?) and then proceeding to false conclusions based on his gaming experience impacted by above mistake is going to be an oralce and light of wisdom for forum dwellers (as before, with this TTK nonsence, probably caused by not adjusting his itemistion to 1.2 changes). Classic. Maybe some poeple should try to have their own opinion, not just blindly following guy who is changing MMOs more often than socks?

[dcgregorya]

It only appears so to players who posses even less skill, aka below average.

 

 

 

trying your best and still be average, is not the same as succeeding and being pro.

 

Someone sure is mad they didn't get invited to do commentary on Gamebreaker.tv. Taugrim is pretty good - a lot better than needed to analyze TOR. If you disagree then disagree but you knocking on his 'pro status' just makes you look like a bitter crappy player with an overinflated ego.

[Masturomenos]

This game for any rikft player is deja vu. I mean it took trion 10p months to lose this many subs bioware has beat them to it. Also trion content wise is years ahead. With multi specs, content, transfers, cross server que, lfg, the instant missions bioware really cant even compare even thou both made the same developer mistakes with class balance. Imo the biggest mistake is thinking they are blizzard. You never nerf classes and chnge them this much before people get attached. The best way to lose a sub is to drastically chage nerf them before the players is attached.

 

Blizzard is different ill play my pally if they r changed or my druid or my lock etc because ive played them multiple years and am attached to them. You know what i did after 1.2 with my BH never played them again and just rerolled because i dont care about it.

 

Ego ruined swtor and rift and both made a critical error and the moment the community got mad they clamed up and stopped communicating with us. Someones mad at u then u stand up and go resolve it you act like a man. Bioware and rift both curled up into little balls and avoided the issues like little scared (insert what u want since i dont know of anything that when pushed wont push back except for bw and trion) atleast trion only cost a few bucks to make rift while bioware spent more then the GDP of 30 contries to make this game.

[Sholagar]

The appeal to authority is nice, except he has his facts quite backwards here. 1.2 is far LESS grindy, not more.

 

I've been in a messing around mood with my Conqueror Gunslinger, so maybe I'll trade my usual loadout for a recruit armor set for a day or so and see how harsh it subjectively is... Being a fresh 50 was truly horrific before, though, and you had to endure the hazing for a lot longer than a week.

 

It IS more grindy, you just don't realize that now the grind is for WH, not BM. They replaced one grind for another, and you have obviously fallen for it. GG

[Pistols]

Well written, and 100% accurate.

 

Regardless of Taug's "PvP status", there is no denying the truth of his words, as is evident with the massive amount of players unsubbing.

[Pekish]

a well writen as much as useless and very uninspired.

 

A nobody that lack any sence of MATH (buying WH weapon instead of a full set of BM)

 

That's exactly what the game doesn't need more superficial analysis with no hard number from a person that it's not really a knowledge pvper

 

He is mediocre his analysis lack originality could have been written by a 2 weeks player at beast but he is good at writing blog.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Pekish

[Audenlol]

Coming from Rift myself only know Taugrim as "Warrior guide writer" which is his forum title.

I have a slight different experience with Rift vs SWTOR PvP than he does.

1st of all I really dont feel WH gear has that much of a power gap compare to BM.

However recruit gear do have larger power gap vs BM gear NOT really the power gap per se more like endurance advantage since many recruit gear actually have BETTER stat distribution than BM.

 

Also it took my marauder about 3 days worth of PvP to go from full recruit to full BM. The grind? it takes average of 13 STRAIGHT LOSES to get 1 piece of BM, (or just 8 wins rounded up). WH gear on the other hand takes around 5 to 6 times longer per piece (mainly because theres no way to get Ranked WZ comm directly due to lack of real rWZ assuming rWZ awards similar commandation then each WH pieces will take about 16 ranked wins to get.

 

Rift? Took me little over 2000 warfronts + grinding each and every single PvP dailies religiously to go from Rank 1 to Rank 8 (which later got rescaled to Rank 1-40 that REQUIRED former rank capped players to REGRIND from Rank 38.5 back to rank 40).. And oh do I mention you also need to grind different WZ factions reputations to get OTHER pvp gears AND grind PvP Rifts to get PvP crystals that provides set bonus... Rift PvP is easily 10 times more grindy than SWTOR...

 

The PvP grinding intensity of swtor is still super "softcore" compare to Rift. Also the PvP stat (valor) in Rift is super ultra powerful. Full set pvp armor in rift + accssories giving player 50+% mitigation... YES this means if you wear PvE gear to PvP you will be taking DOUBLE the damage which is pretty much a 1 shot from some classes like Pyro Mages.

 

PvP warriors in Rift is super face roll (properly specced the warriors in Rift can be played to 80% capacity with just 2 buttons (1 AP Spammer and 1 Finisher Spammer of course the pvp are mainly macro driven). Guess what that being said Taugrim played a...... WARRIOR (aka waqqior by many Rift form posters because they complain about the littlest thing you can imaging while they are arguably the most facerolled class in Rift).

 

Not to dispute his creditability in his OPINIONS. But sorry his article is very inaccurate compare to my PvP experience in TOR (tho faily accurate in the Rift part).

 

1.2 hurt PvP in TOR yes, but its also NOT the biggest reason why people are quitting. Its due to imo perma light servers and super slow pvp queues (Rift on average with mercenary system + xshard queuing had an average queue time of 30 seconds to 1 minute and 30 seconds during primetime and this is with RANK MATCHING AND PREMADE MATCHING IN PLACE).

 

If BW would do a server merger/free xfer/xshard queue when 1.2 hit, the sub number wouldnt have dropped so quickly...

 

Not only PvPers, those 90% perma light servers also affects PvEers due to many guilds unable to recruit more members to replace the members they lost to Diablo 3/Tera/Back to WoW.

 

Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of this post. Ton of QQ about a class whom he accuses of tremendous QQ.

 

(probably played a mage..they whine the most in any mmo).

[Koenig-O-Riain]

pre 1.2, if you saw someone guarded, you tried to separate them from the tank so you could have a chance of taking them out. post 1.2, guarded and being healed? no problem, just burst them down.

 

I just don't feel that this is the case at all. I play a commando medic and have had the pleasure of playing with a quality tank (merrick) on my server. I hope that dps read your post and continue to try and just burst down a tank being healed. Yes, dps is more bursty, no disagreement there, but my heals can be just as busrty.

 

What this means for current pvp.

1. reaction time has to be faster

2. communication has to be better

3. players have to be smarter.

4. Need to be properly geared

5. USE STUNS - The game has plenty

 

Overall, undergeared players or unintelligent players 'feel' an imbalance because they can't effectively deal with the bursty dps.

[Perfectcircle]

Wrong...

 

1-Swtor pvp is terribad

 

I stopped here, these kids need to find a new term, "terribad" is a horrible term.

 

Since when did the words terrible, or bad lose their meaning?

[Richoshist]

This game WAS fairly balanced pre 1.2. The game isn't AS balanced now, with Sintanks/mauraders/pyrotechs and op/scoundrel healers coming out on the good side of the balance equation. This is common sense. The only people disputing this are the average players playing these classes pre 1.2 who are all of a sudden "really good" now.

 

There are people I never even noticed in WZs pre-1.2 that are the dominant forces now. How did it happen? Their classes escaped the nerf bat for some reason. Now sage healers get royal beatdowns and operatives tank damage like no one else. I don't come down on Bioware too hard for this; they've done OK for balance thus far and I keep expecting them to tweak a few things to balance them out again. But anyone who plays a significant amount of PvP knows who the OP classes are. Taugrim's blog post is common sense. Just check out all the re-rollers and see what they're making.

 

It's ALSO no surprise that players in full recruit gear get roflstomped by players in war hero gear. It was this way in WoW, Rift, and now SWTOR. This is part of the "natural order" of things in many MMOs. Guy with 13,000HP gets destroyed by guy with 17,000HP. Common sense. I'm a guy with 17,000HP (18,400 with buffs). What do I do to guys in full recruit gear? SMASHSMASHSMASH dead.

 

And for those that think SWTOR PvP isn't a grindfest. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Their original design for WZs in 1.2 was "grind your butt off in non-rated WZs or play ranked WZs and get your gear quicker." And then right before 1.2 went live they pulled ranked WZs, leaving the players with 1 option for gear upgrades. Once again, Taugrim saying SWTOR is a grindfest in 1.2 is common sense.

 

At least Rift had free character transfers available, which imo produced a very volatile realm situation. One day your server would have lots of people, then the next day everyone had moved to another shard because "this server doesn't have enough defiants." But at least people weren't stuck on a dead world.

 

This game is bleeding out bad. They are losing tons of subscriptions, and it doesn't take a nuclear physicist to figure that out. 20 minute WZ ques will force a PvPer to unsub faster than anything, and if you can't get your main character to a place where ques pop around the 5 minute mark or better most will go to a game where they will. Some will re-roll, most will stop playing. And sadly, many already have. I've already been through 2 PvP guilds who had 50 plus active players that have dwindled down to 2 or 3. They're playing Tera/D3 or the GW2 beta until it goes live.

[Neoforcer]

And yeah i think most of us agree.Good blog by Taugrim as always.This man knows more

about your own PvP BioWare then your PvP team.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/05/20/swtor-has-repeated-rifts-mistakes-in-endgame-pvp/

 

 

The author of that blog has no clue what grindy is before 1.2. You had bm bags that only drop a bm com maybe 5% of the time With no recruit gear. Bioware change that in 1.2 try going pre 1.2 pvping in quested gear for 2 month getting killed in 3 shots by full bm player then cry. There working on pvp had he grinded his bm gear he would of found that he could compete with full WH player. Waste of a time reading want my 5 min back.

[Geglad]

I am still left in tor. WHY? i got nothing else better to do.

 

WoW, been there done that... won 2 tournaments, participated in 4. Also old game is old.

 

 

Obviously not chess tournaments. If you are going to try and elitist your way through arguments, at least have real pvp experience to support it. If you play any game at all where you can derive an advantage through gear, composition, or type, you are not a professional by your thinly veiled definition.

 

The true definition, being paid, may apply to you. But I believe anyone reading your posts knows the real intent of your inference. "Pro" means the best, it means you are the best, and thus your opinion matters so much more than the "fail 20 year pvp vet who never rose above average in the ranks" - paraphrased from your previous posts.

 

Go win a chess tourney, then come back and talk about your real pvp experience, your obviously superior mental capabilities, and the lack of need for physical fitness because of the one dimensional quality of the gaming because chess isnt a physical game.

 

And to answer your question, and you know you asked it - yes. But does it matter?

 

 

 

-Lad

[Pistols]

The author of that blog has no clue what grindy is before 1.2. You had bm bags that only drop a bm com maybe 5% of the time With no recruit gear. Bioware change that in 1.2 try going pre 1.2 pvping in quested gear for 2 month getting killed in 3 shots by full bm player then cry. There working on pvp had he grinded his bm gear he would of found that he could compete with full WH player. Waste of a time reading want my 5 min back.

 

The grind was luck based pre 1.2; which means those who had unlimited amount of time to PvP didn't really progress faster than others with casual playing time, since you were allowed so many bags per day. Post 1.2, whomever plays the most, will be geared faster than others, which in turn creates an even more terrible PvP scenario for fresh 50's. Bottom line, he hit the nail on the head on every aspect of his rants, and I haven't seen 1 post to counter what he said. I can see those who lack comprehension would feel their time having been wasted though.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Pistols

[Lithy]

Unfortunately when he bought WH over BM it just proved he doesn't understand the game, and while he may be able to give good advice in RIFT, it's hard to take anybody seriously who doesn't even understand the basics of a games stat system.

[sanchito]

You mean reflex? you do realize that there is a 1.5 seconds global cooldown which essential levels the playing field. (save for very few abilities that are off gcd)

 

This isn't starcraft where apm (actions per minute) and reflex actually matters.

 

If it takes longer than 1.5 seconds to translate thought into action,that is not normal and i suggest you visit your local physician.

 

If you unexpectedly get the huttball while at 15% health theres quite a bit of information to process in the one GCD you have before being killed...just saying

[Pistols]

Unfortunately when he bought WH over BM it just proved he doesn't understand the game, and while he may be able to give good advice in RIFT, it's hard to take anybody seriously who doesn't even understand the basics of a games stat system.

 

Other than his choice for gear, can you argue against any of his points about the game in general?

 

I'll be anxiously awaiting.

[AlyxDinas]

Unfortunately when he bought WH over BM it just proved he doesn't understand the game, and while he may be able to give good advice in RIFT, it's hard to take anybody seriously who doesn't even understand the basics of a games stat system.

 

I'm fairly certain that he knows he'll be able to acquire BM sufficiently with a mere time investment. Getting the head start on WH isn't completely foolish considering that he's going to be able to grind out the comms he needs for Battlemaster through his normal play time anyway.

[Raggok]

Swtor may not have rankings atm, but wow does, starcraft does... other games do.

 

Contribution ? i'm not "here" to give, im here to take, lol. (All your base and rankings are belong to me!, lol )

 

Since you are taking the position that you must have "pro level" accomplishments to give opinions on PvP would you mind posting your PvP resume with accomplishments included or at least give us a video to watch to see how good you are?

 

I mean, why should I care about your opinion unless you can prove to me that you are pro.

[Khoraji]

The author of that blog has no clue what grindy is before 1.2. You had bm bags that only drop a bm com maybe 5% of the time With no recruit gear. Bioware change that in 1.2 try going pre 1.2 pvping in quested gear for 2 month getting killed in 3 shots by full bm player then cry. There working on pvp had he grinded his bm gear he would of found that he could compete with full WH player. Waste of a time reading want my 5 min back.

 

And even that wasnt grindy compared to most MMO's out there.

[Arkerus]

Unfortunately when he bought WH over BM it just proved he doesn't understand the game, and while he may be able to give good advice in RIFT, it's hard to take anybody seriously who doesn't even understand the basics of a games stat system.

 

He has very, very in depth vanguard/powertech guides. He understands the system just fine.

 

That doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he says, because I don't. However, he does understand the stats and what they do.

[Raggok]

Issue #0: Server Populations

This is huge and they should make server mergers PRIORITY #1 and not transfers. Transfers before mergers will be a disaster. This is a real issue.

 

I'm going to be a little bit cynical here and point out that while mergers are free... transfers typically aren't. Get my drift.

Edited May 21, 2012 by Raggok

[VoidJustice]

O totally phat buisness move... your game is gushing subscribers due to low population servers, and no end game...

 

FIX IT BY CHARGING THEM TO TRANSFER... lulz... /unsubincoming

[Raggok]

I am still left in tor. WHY? i got nothing else better to do.

 

WoW, been there done that... won 2 tournaments, participated in 4. Also old game is old.

 

Who are you? Do you have some videos of your gameplay?

[Khoraji]

Other than his choice for gear, can you argue against any of his points about the game in general?

 

I'll be anxiously awaiting.

 

He has 3 reasons PVP is bad in SWTOR:

 

- Gear scales too much between tiers:

Does he mean between recruit and BM? Yea the difference is a bit large, but BM is so easy to get now it doesn't really matter. The difference between BM and War Hero isnt that much.

 

- He said "before Patch 1.2, SWTOR had the best class balance of any MMORPG on the market."

Really? .....

 

 

- He calls SWTOR "grindy"

Must be his first MMO...