Here's an idea for Undying Rage

[Gomex]

Undying rage is basically our stun, except you can react during it.

 

Smart players use whats called crowd control when the marauder gets to ~30% and bursts them down in 2 seconds, or with lack of cc options they do a thing called kiting. Google is your friend here for those two strange terms.

 

Best post

 

 

Are smugglers seriously complaining?

 

They have a flashbang that can screw a whole crowd

 

They have a stun

 

They have a stun with opener

 

Then can restealth and stay in stealth with cleansing dots(as well as getting a second life with getting healed to full around los)

 

All that > 5 sec of not dying when you're at 1-2k hp(only to die from dots afterwards) amirite?

 

Vanish for marauders is laughable considering if you don't use it after a knockback you'll get down to 50% from one target hitting you

 

Give me a stun, give me a cc that doesn't break on dmg especially when my only role is dps, or give me a heal so I can los/top myself to full rather than taking 250 hp ticks from dot crits that can be cleanse off as well as negated from current dots

 

Force choke you might add? That can be interrupted or knock backed as well as losing dps uptime.

 

Just because you can't win a 1v1 with timing of ccs against a marauder and think you can outdmg them up close doesn't mean something needs a nerf...especially when that class only role is to have higher dps than you.

[Astarica]

People complaining about Undying Rage don't even know what makes Marauder overpowered.

 

Nerf Force Camo and you'd have a much easier time against good Marauders. Honestly the best way to deal with Undying Rage is don't even think about it. Don't bother planning your game around it, because it's honestly not that strong. 99% of the time there's someone else you can hit because there are very few true 1on1 situation in this game.

 

I think people jus aren't used to the fact that Marauder and Tankasin pretty much have an extra life behind their life bar when they hit low between all their cooldowns. You may think you got them at 20% but if all their cooldowns are up, they really have another half a bar or more of life even with no healing support whatsoever. But, if you're actually trying to beat Undying Rage, stun them at below 30% before they do Undying Rage, that way it forces them to commit a CC breaker or you can finish them off. It gives you good practice against Op healers, who are even harder to kill below 30%.

[Gomex]

A defensive cooldown you say?

 

You mean the cd that takes half of your current life?

 

Or the cd that leaves you with 1-2k health with dots ticking?

[Bbizzle]

A defensive cooldown you say?

 

You mean the cd that takes half of your current life?

 

Or the cd that leaves you with 1-2k health with dots ticking?

 

Any person with a brain uses it when thier health is low. If you have any support its an auto back to full while never slowing down on damage output.

 

You know what else took health but still the class was nerfed? Sorc and sage healers.

[anwg]

What about pve? Marauder has to pop it to stay alive to keep doing dps... hurts the raid if he died specially if it was early in the fight.

 

By that logic every class needs a 99% damage reduction skill.

[Gomex]

Sages and sorc healers nerf was valid, would you like me to post links of 875k healing after nerf?

 

They could literally do 25k-27k dmg to 3- 5 people in 2 globals with dots ticking(without adrenals)

 

Just like you said with any person with brains would time it correctly

 

Any person with brains can time a cc correctly as well

 

Also, anyone who pops a defensive cd I can top off easy on my sorc as long as they have enough expertise

 

ops can vanish and stay stealth while I top them off

 

Sins can as well(talented is even easier)

 

Juggs have the highest mitigation, as a healer if you let when get to 25% without healing then you're doing it wrong..especially as a sage

 

rarely do I even see a merc dying through blue shield when timing it right...like not popping it when he's at 10%

Edited May 19, 2012 by Gomex

[Gomex]

Also goes with any dps class with support healers and keeping dps uptime up....sorc/sages especially considering all their dmg are instant and can mitigate 100% dmg just from los while dotting...they even get the same health ticks from crits on dots if not more...all from range

 

you make it sound like a scenario where everyone is out in the open and bunched together for a deathmatch....if that's the case then you have a bad pvp server.

[Raansu]

Its a defensive cooldown, not a LulzImUnkillableLetMeWreckYou Cooldown.

 

No, it is not a defensive CD. This is a failed logic that most people can't seem to understand. GBTF/UR is an offensive CD for us. We don't have a stun, this is our version of a stun, except you can still stun us, you can still root us, you can still knock us away.

 

You guys want something to complain about? Take away GBTF and give me a hardstun so you can't move while I beat on you. At the point you guys would be begging for GBTF to be brought back. Or would you all rather a pure dps class have nothing and just jump in and die instantly? Sentinels are a pure dps class, where they stand now is exactly where they should be.

[Xerain]

I don't see why this is necessary. I mean, Marauders are already considered amongst the strongest PVE DPS and they bring awesome group buffs. Undying Rage should be a' last-gasp-5s-more-dps' ability not a '5s to get healed up fully' ability. DPS Scoundrels are squishier and do worse damage without bringing the group utility of a Marauder and yet they don't get any ability that is remotely closely. Maybe Marauders will just need to learn to do what other melee characters have to - not get hit so much. Comparing Undying Rage to Dodge is laughable - Dodge is basically a self-cleanse ability that helps against a small fraction of the damage in the game for 2 GCDs. Either all melee classes need a version of Undying Rage or Marauders don't need it in its present form, particularly with its absurdly low CD.

 

let me introduce you to evasion and cloaking screen

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/69OZPvu/evasion

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/V73X4H/cloaking-screen

 

Both can be used in pve to take damage off of you and get healed back up and before you boo hoo about cloaking screen making it so you can't be healed after you use it, there is a talent that removes that effect! (it should be taken off, the effect being there is just dumb)

 

Or here's a novel idea went a sent/mara pops undying rage/guarded by the force, why don't you use a stun or a knockback or cryo grenade or vanish or a force choke, seriously this is why this game is screwed up because people just don't know how to deal in certain situations.

 

And FYI I do have a 44 sent but my main is a balance shadow, so you know how I deal with a mara with UR popped? I vanish, if its on cd I force stun, if he pops trinket I knockback or I force Sprint away, its very easy to deal with sheesh

 

On my vanguard, ill cryo grenade if he trinks out of it ill harpoon him to a ledge where he ll fall off, if that doesn't work ill use reflective shields and adrenaline rush then his UR is over.

 

On my scoundrel ill vanish, if on cd I pop dodge or ill dirty kick/flashbang

 

On my guardian ill force choke into a force push and a leap its done by then

 

On my sent ill just force cloak or pop saber ward or force choke

 

So please really, don't cry its very easy to counter, you just aren't good

 

YES! On my assassin if the mara/sent pops the 99% i vanish and on my marauder i choke him out during it, makes for a fantastic dead marauder after t hat.

 

 

That sounds a bit childish and "OH YEAH WELL HOW ABOUT..."

 

Oh you see the childishness in that but not the QQ about ud/gbtf?

 

Realistically, undying rage lasts 5 seconds. So you're saying it would be fair for a ranged characters skills to cost double, (keeping in mind that alot of specs are very delicate on AP management as it is.) AT ALL TIMES? lol.

 

Well you see ranged get to sit in the back and free cast and AOE people down most the time. A ranged players BEST defense is the ability to shoot people from 30m away and a good ranged player can take little to no damage from melee if he chooses to.

 

Thats just lol. Good thing you're not on the dev team.

 

Yeah if i was better changes than the ones in 1.2 would of been put in...

 

People need to play a few classes to 50 before they can get a solid picture of the games balance.

 

Who says i haven't?

 

The issue with your class is that you have more survivability than most tanks do in tank builds. Wanna know the real reason powertechs and vanguards arent playing tank spec, part of it is assualt/pyro is OP, the other part is that they are doing anything they can to get the hell out of tank spec because its bad. I'd play a hybrid vigi guardian or a tanksassin dps gearing any day of the week before I played tank powertech or vanguard.

 

No you assume we do. The reason is because tank stats are screwed for pvp, maybe they should be fixed instead of crying for other classes to get nerfed? Oh and those tank stats work against a marauder btw, and a sniper, and plenty of other abilities. Some things are just dumb, like the fact a Shield will block a beam of pure energy but it won't block a bolt of lightning???

 

I think no healing is a bit much for a nerf they suggested, but Ive played one to 40 so far. The skill is meant to help you survive. What needs to be done is cut damage done by 50% while its up for those 5 seconds. Its a defensive cooldown, not a LulzImUnkillableLetMeWreckYou Cooldown.

 

It's called Undying RAGE... it should fill up our Rage bars too as well as the 99% damage reduction! Nothing needs to be done to the ability you just need to really learn how to combat against it.

 

 

Any person with a brain uses it when thier health is low. If you have any support its an auto back to full while never slowing down on damage output.

 

You know what else took health but still the class was nerfed? Sorc and sage healers.

 

If you're talking about consumption you could talent to make the health cost on that be 0 or pretty much 0 making sorc/sage healers resources infinite hence why they got nerfed!

Edited May 20, 2012 by Ellvaan
Quoted removed content

[doctorfirepants]

No, it is not a defensive CD. This is a failed logic that most people can't seem to understand. GBTF/UR is an offensive CD for us. We don't have a stun, this is our version of a stun, except you can still stun us, you can still root us, you can still knock us away.

 

You guys want something to complain about? Take away GBTF and give me a hardstun so you can't move while I beat on you. At the point you guys would be begging for GBTF to be brought back. Or would you all rather a pure dps class have nothing and just jump in and die instantly? Sentinels are a pure dps class, where they stand now is exactly where they should be.

 

Absolutely true. I would gladly take a stun over UR any day. Bonus would be that I could use it at any point in the fight and you wouldn't know when it was coming...unlike UR which can only be used when my health is low so you know exactly when it's coming and you can already prepare to counter it.

[cashogy]

There's a difference between 25% reduction and 32% reduction also... you know how you get to walk around all the time with heavy armor, can heal yourself, have a cleanse to wipe snares/roots/dots off of you... Yeah i want those abilities too now or them to be nerfed.

 

you are ill informed.

 

medium armor gives ~25% damage reduction. heavy armor gives ~30% damage reduction. ~5% difference, no more no less. enough with the "heavy armor is a defensive ability" bs, because its not. yes there is a difference. however it is part of the classes mechanics. you might as well whine that ranged professions get to attack from 30m; its the same principle

 

bh's have a cleanse that only works on tech and physical abilities. guess what? that means all those stupid jedi dots and snares and roots cant be cleansed.

 

marauder does not need more tools. you continue to post as if marauder is gimped compared to other classes, when it is in fact the most well off of any other class right now.

[Xerain]

you are ill informed.

 

medium armor gives ~25% damage reduction. heavy armor gives ~30% damage reduction. ~5% difference, no more no less. enough with the "heavy armor is a defensive ability" bs, because its not. yes there is a difference. however it is part of the classes mechanics. you might as well whine that ranged professions get to attack from 30m; its the same principle

 

bh's have a cleanse that only works on tech and physical abilities. guess what? that means all those stupid jedi dots and snares and roots cant be cleansed.

 

marauder does not need more tools. you continue to post as if marauder is gimped compared to other classes, when it is in fact the most well off of any other class right now.

 

I was inspecting a rage jugg while i typed that with 31.5% armor mitigation, i rounded up. I never said heavy armor was a defensive ability but you get passive mitigation ALL the time you have a constant damage reduction where a marauders ability to reduce damage is always in flux. I don't mind that ranged players can shoot from 30m away but I will whine that you ranged players are crying because a melee gets in your face and you let them sit there and hit you. You shouldn't be letting that happen, at all, ever. Use your tools right, you should learn how to, and you'll get hit a few times at best by a melee before they die or they'll see you're kiting and switch targets and you get to go back to free casting on them or they'll LOS and that's when you just go after someone else.

 

Marauder is not gimped compared to other classes. It's fine the way it is and needs no changing. It's just as well off as tankasins and powertechs and everyone else.

[Bbizzle]

Also goes with any dps class with support healers and keeping dps uptime up....sorc/sages especially considering all their dmg are instant and can mitigate 100% dmg just from los while dotting...they even get the same health ticks from crits on dots if not more...all from range

 

you make it sound like a scenario where everyone is out in the open and bunched together for a deathmatch....if that's the case then you have a bad pvp server.

 

No, but my server has alot of skilled DPS, or did before everyone rerolled on a more populated server or quit. And you dont have to teach me about Sage I have a sage. And yes back in the aoe lolspec you could do a 600k voidstar like breathing air irl. Im not saying they didnt need a nerf. Im saying Marauders need to stop defending themselves so hard. Just like I have an assualt vanguard and I dont try to state our burst isnt very very good. The only posts I make on vanguard assualt/pyro are when people think were "tanks" in that spec.

 

Undying rage is going to get a fix eventually, Any game thats had this type of skill has gotten it changed. Just accept it. lol.

 

Marauders DPS is fine. Survivability is a tad high but overall not bad. But Undying rage should not have full damage output while its up. Its not a bad dps nerf its 5 seconds. lol.

 

And before people get into the whole CC-smarter stuff. Pvp isnt 1v1. Meaning that other people use thier cc when they want. So the whole CC them and let them sit there while its up thing is fine, and I do do that. But anyone who pvps knows how pugs white bars.

 

We can all say organize CC etc etc. But unless they give us 8 man queue this will always be an issue and they have to balance around pug-warzones. And pug tendancies.

[Xerain]

 

We can all say organize CC etc etc. But unless they give us 8 man queue this will always be an issue and they have to balance around pug-warzones. And pug tendancies.

 

yeah WTB rateds please.

[Odahviin]

Have it cost all the marauders current focus to use. Not even a big problem , but enough to slightly reduce the burst while it's popped. It would be similar to a Juggernaut switching to soresu form mid fight for better survivability.

 

interesting idea but it's not a stance dance.

 

Further to this why victimise one AC? It's not like we demand that the juggs last stand ability gets a rage penalty.

 

the players of this game need to stop attempting to do the devs jobs.

 

WE as the community do not have access to the metrics BW uses to balance it's AC's

 

Just because you anecdotally feel something is unbalanced doesn't mean it actually IS.

[TexasJediKnight]

Undying Rage is fine, Cloak of pain is the problem its on a 1 min CD and it can last for 30 secs so making it actually a 30 sec CD is what is stupid, and you can spec to where every retaliation you use lowers it by 3 secs, it should be on a 3 min CD like Saber Ward.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=4415816#post4415816

Edited May 20, 2012 by LexiCazam
Inappropriate content

[cashogy]

I was inspecting a rage jugg while i typed that with 31.5% armor mitigation, i rounded up. I never said heavy armor was a defensive ability but you get passive mitigation ALL the time you have a constant damage reduction where a marauders ability to reduce damage is always in flux. I don't mind that ranged players can shoot from 30m away but I will whine that you ranged players are crying because a melee gets in your face and you let them sit there and hit you. You shouldn't be letting that happen, at all, ever. Use your tools right, you should learn how to, and you'll get hit a few times at best by a melee before they die or they'll see you're kiting and switch targets and you get to go back to free casting on them or they'll LOS and that's when you just go after someone else.

 

Marauder is not gimped compared to other classes. It's fine the way it is and needs no changing. It's just as well off as tankasins and powertechs and everyone else.

 

you have a constant ~25% damage reduction, unless you dont wear armor. marauder has 3 times the number of damage mitigating abilities. i would trade my heavy armor for a marauders medium armor and defensive CDs in a heartbeat.

 

yes, you have a point with ranged crying about melee getting in range too easily. every class has tools to keep them away, so that is a learn to play issue.

[Xerain]

you have a constant ~25% damage reduction, unless you dont wear armor. marauder has 3 times the number of damage mitigating abilities. i would trade my heavy armor for a marauders medium armor and defensive CDs in a heartbeat.

 

yes, you have a point with ranged crying about melee getting in range too easily. every class has tools to keep them away, so that is a learn to play issue.

 

3 times the number of defensive CD's then what class?

[Teioh_White]

Well, I'm guessing Jugg, so Juggs got:

 

Saberward (3min) 12s, 25% Yellow damage reduction, 50% dodge white damage (doesn't help when CC'd ofc)

 

Endure Pain: (90 sec) 10s, About a 3.5k heal that basically does 3.5k damage to you after 10s. Pretty awful outside a close 1v1 dual.

 

Enraged Defense (45 sec, Vengence only): 10s 15% DR+ about a 350 hp heal every time you're hit. Cost 4 rage to use.

 

Invincible (3 min, Immortal only) 10s 40% damage prevented after factoring in armor, not before (not as good as how energy shield does it)

 

So, Juggs at best get 3 CD, and Endure pain is about as crappy as a CD can get.

 

Mara get:

 

Undying Rage (75 sec, cost half of current hp) 5s, 99% damage reduction.

 

Saber ward (3min) Same as Juggs

 

Cloak of pain (1 min) 30s, 20% DR, if they notice it's on and lay off for 2 GCD to let it fade, hell, that's good enough, too.

 

Force Cama (45 s) 4-6s Stealth, lets you either escape a focus fire for longer node stalling, or get 1-2 free hits in a small scale match, which is useful enough with low recast.

 

Obsfucate (60s) 6s, close to 100% dodge on white damage from one target. Amazing or useless depending on whose trying to kill you. Not much help against a focus fire.

 

So, not really double, but Mara does get 5 CD to Juggs 3, and they all have fairly brisk recast times as well. The amazing Undying Rage is a lower CD in pvp than the close to horrible Endure pain, which is humorous. Also, Undying Rage and Camo have some ability to stall in a focus fire situation for a team respawn, which is something few classes can do.

 

As a Jugg, I'd be happy if we could get our Saber Ward down to 2min recast, and Endure pain was more like a barrier that lasted 10s, rather than something that only matters if you barely win a duel. Undying Rage I think would be fair if it also reduced healing recieved by 99% as well during it's duration.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Teioh_White

[Ellvaan]

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Edited May 20, 2012 by Ellvaan

[Gomex]

Well, I'm guessing Jugg, so Juggs got:

 

Saberward (3min) 12s, 25% Yellow damage reduction, 50% dodge white damage (doesn't help when CC'd ofc)

 

Endure Pain: (90 sec) 10s, About a 3.5k heal that basically does 3.5k damage to you after 10s. Pretty awful outside a close 1v1 dual.

 

Enraged Defense (45 sec, Vengence only): 10s 15% DR+ about a 350 hp heal every time you're hit. Cost 4 rage to use.

 

Invincible (3 min, Immortal only) 10s 40% damage prevented after factoring in armor, not before (not as good as how energy shield does it)

 

So, Juggs at best get 3 CD, and Endure pain is about as crappy as a CD can get.

 

Mara get:

 

Undying Rage (75 sec, cost half of current hp) 5s, 99% damage reduction.

 

Saber ward (3min) Same as Juggs

 

Cloak of pain (1 min) 30s, 20% DR, if they notice it's on and lay off for 2 GCD to let it fade, hell, that's good enough, too.

 

Force Cama (45 s) 4-6s Stealth, lets you either escape a focus fire for longer node stalling, or get 1-2 free hits in a small scale match, which is useful enough with low recast.

 

Obsfucate (60s) 6s, close to 100% dodge on white damage from one target. Amazing or useless depending on whose trying to kill you. Not much help against a focus fire.

 

So, not really double, but Mara does get 5 CD to Juggs 3, and they all have fairly brisk recast times as well. The amazing Undying Rage is a lower CD in pvp than the close to horrible Endure pain, which is humorous. Also, Undying Rage and Camo have some ability to stall in a focus fire situation for a team respawn, which is something few classes can do.

 

As a Jugg, I'd be happy if we could get our Saber Ward down to 2min recast, and Endure pain was more like a barrier that lasted 10s, rather than something that only matters if you barely win a duel. Undying Rage I think would be fair if it also reduced healing recieved by 99% as well during it's duration.

 

You left out quite a bit

 

Guard keeps people alive

 

They're immune to cc after a charge

 

They have leap that gives them health...actually game changing if you use it correctly

 

Tanks with healers changes the outcome of the game easy

 

Marauders have those short cds considering once slowed...always slowed till it wears off

 

Our only way out bad positioning is relying on other people bad positioning to charge at...which is huge comes rated

 

You're also mentioned your defensive cd is worthless when stunned....so is UR considering you're left with no health after the effect along with saber ward?

 

So in reality we have cloak of pain and rely on 250 health ticks that is based off dots that can be dispelled and only on crits

 

Using cloak of pain can be a lose lose situation as well. If you're using it because there's multiple targets attacking you then you will most likely die in a knockback/slow either ways unless using another cd to either get back on target or escape...chances are if you get back on target there's a stun waiting...by that time you're already 30% hp

 

Using it 1v1...well since you don't know how it works I'll tell you a trick to make a marauder waste it. Don't attack for 3 seconds till it wears off it only stays on the marauder when he's taking damage, if you're an op you can easily flashbang/stun/vanish it off..that's 3 counters alone. Juggs can force trinkets easy if they use it and pop aoe CC...they will most likely trinket..which he will not have for UR which can easily be countered with a force choke by then you only have to wait about 1-2 seconds. Sorcs can easily kite marauders all day long, if they pop it before match starts then ww, that will force him to waste a 20% dmg reduc cd or trinket he won't have for UR and sit in a full stun after dealing with knockback/slow.

 

Please learn the class before you assume a class is broken

 

I wish I wasn't lazy and show how easy it is to kill marauders on my sorc....or from a marauder's point of view how easy it is to die as well as dealing with all the CDs I have to use just to stay on 1 target leaving me with nothing for the 7 other people on the opponent's team.

 

I never cried on the forums about sorcs being nerfed, I actually agreed with them because I could see how OP it was to do 23-25k dmg to 3-5 people in 2 globals with dots ticking. As well as doing 700-800k heals just from using 3 buttons and topping people off from 10% to 100% in 3 seconds. I knew that needed a nerf.

 

That being said, I can't say the same for marauders, they have 1 trinket every 2 mins...if you trinket one thing from one fight, it makes every other defensive cd useless as well as no dps uptime. They are already squishy, I've seen it from a sorc perspective of them dying with one line of dots from 100% to 20%...not including adrenal/relic.

 

I've played it from a marauder's perspective, I can honestly say they're squishy because unlike juggs, their role is to dps...therfore they have to expose themselves at the front lines with a 2 min cd to bust away that is usually needed score a kill on a healer...they have no way of surviving that front line unless getting bombed with sufficient healing and proper cd managment.

 

This game isn't a deathmatch. Juggs have more utilities than a marauder when it comes to playing objective in a wz. So do Ops and sins with that being said.

 

If a marauder is doing high dps in a game, there's a good chance he wasn't playing objectively.

[Teioh_White]

Whoa there, mate, I was replying specifically to the issue of number CD vs. CD of the two classes, not the indivdual advantages each has. And as for Saber Ward nitpick, I meant that you can't dodge while'd CC (an "issue" all evasion based CC have), while Undying Rage will still prevent damage, even if you'd rather not spend those invicible 5 seconds CC'd.

 

One stops preventing damage if CC'd, the other keeps preventing it, like it's supposed to I...don't really see how you can say that's a comparable stance at all. Then again, as both have almost the exact same CD in Ward, it is a close to a wash as you can get.

 

I wouldn't really compare a Jugg operating in a tank function, either, as that's not directly comprable to a Jugg operating in Shien, which is likely as similar as you can get between two different AC's. (Rage Jugg and Mara are actually probably more similar, but eh.)

Edited May 20, 2012 by Teioh_White

[crrypto]

Wait, we don't just spam Tracer Missle to victory while at ranged in heavy armor? OMG we get to use TWENTY abilities every single fight?!? Nerf us! Nerf us NAO!!!

 

I'm so tired of hearing how difficult a Marauder is to play. It makes me laugh every time. I play a merc, the AC you're bashing, and I use 24 class abilities regularly. I have 36 hot keys set up that I use regularly.

 

So, it would seem, that by your logic, Marauders are easy to play and Merc are for advanced users only.

 

You're a tool.

 

Here's my list since I'm sure you'll call me a liar:

 

1 - rapid shots

2 - energy shield

3 - rocket punch

4 - thermal detonator

5 - vent heat

s+4 - power surge

a+2 - cleanse

c - unload

x - railshot

v - incendiary missile

` - trinket

r - sweeping blasters

f - powershot

z - stun

s+f - fusion missile

s+r - rocket boost

s+c - concussion missile

y + kolto overload

s+v - TSO

s+g - rapid scan

g - DFA

s+t - stealth scan

0 = hunters boon

= - R&R

 

edit: Removed consumables and such because they aren't class abilities; originally I listed all 36 hotkeys.

Edited May 20, 2012 by crrypto

[Raansu]

I'm so tired of hearing how difficult a Marauder is to play. It makes me laugh every time. I play a merc, the AC you're bashing, and I use 24 class abilities regularly. I have 36 hot keys set up that I use regularly.

 

So, it would seem, that by your logic, Marauders are easy to play and Merc are for advanced users only.

 

You're a tool.

 

Here's my list since I'm sure you'll call me a liar:

 

1 - rapid shots

2 - energy shield

3 - rocket punch

4 - thermal detonator

5 - vent heat

s+4 - power surge

a+2 - cleanse

c - unload

x - railshot

v - incendiary missile

` - trinket

r - sweeping blasters

f - powershot

z - stun

s+f - fusion missile

s+r - rocket boost

s+c - concussion missile

y + kolto overload

s+v - TSO

s+g - rapid scan

g - DFA

s+t - stealth scan

0 = hunters boon

= - R&R

 

edit: Removed consumables and such because they aren't class abilities; originally I listed all 36 hotkeys.

 

Congrats? The difference is marauders rotations actually consist of more CD's and abilities being used as well as the fact they have to build up rage to even do their burst. Annihilation spec goes through 5 gcd's before they even get their first big hit. Pyro? Their entire rotation is burst. Incendiary, railshot, unload (proc-lets face it, its rare that it doesn't proc) rail shot, power shot filler for proc and the occasional fusion missile and thermal detonator in between rotations.

 

Sitting in the background shooting people isn't all that difficult either, and when a melee jumps I just kite them with rapid shots...Marauders are in the middle of the cluster**** getting focus fired by everyone because they have 2 shiny flashlights and everyone is afraid of the for some stupid reason. They need the CD's they have, and the fact they have to be in melee range and have twice as many CD managements then any other class as well as a longer starter rotation makes them a more difficult class to play. This is why most marauders are fail and only a few stand out, while bad players can easily stand out with other classes.

[Gomex]

Whoa there, mate, I was replying specifically to the issue of number CD vs. CD of the two classes, not the indivdual advantages each has. And as for Saber Ward nitpick, I meant that you can't dodge while'd CC (an "issue" all evasion based CC have), while Undying Rage will still prevent damage, even if you'd rather not spend those invicible 5 seconds CC'd.

 

One stops preventing damage if CC'd, the other keeps preventing it, like it's supposed to I...don't really see how you can say that's a comparable stance at all. Then again, as both have almost the exact same CD in Ward, it is a close to a wash as you can get.

 

I wouldn't really compare a Jugg operating in a tank function, either, as that's not directly comprable to a Jugg operating in Shien, which is likely as similar as you can get between two different AC's. (Rage Jugg and Mara are actually probably more similar, but eh.)

 

Juggs can mitigate TONS of dmg just by one smart leap as long as he has good enough awareness to see he's in a bad spot.

 

They also have the first momentum to do whatever they want with being immune to cc at the start of their charge followed by a pushback. Those are valuable gcd the opponents are losing to set up their damage.

 

Overall heavy armor+stance does make a difference in mitigation, can't deny that when I see 800-1.2k massacre damage on a guardian then a next time I use it on the healer without guard for an easy 4k in full wh gear. In the meantime even with cds up I get hit by other marauders for no lower than 3.2k. I've also killed marauders very fast on my own marauder...if he pops UR it's never been a problem for me to just camo it out or force choke it...and that's coming from the same class who has the least amount of control in the game...so why are others struggling so hard? It's not like marauders go around using stealth before a fights start so they can have the first attack.

 

My only answer is awareness must be hard for those who click rather than bind most of their ability and realize what's going on their screen. To fix this problem they all come to the forums and demand a nerf so they're able to maintain the S key in their rotation.

 

But again, it's a pve based game based on scripted fights...understandable I guess