[Guide] Reverse Engineering

[TheLastWolfman]

Hi Slaign,

 

Nice rewrite, as always hats off to you for the continued hard work.

 

On minor thing I noticed (this may have been in the original version and I missed it), you use the following phrase a couple of times

 

"You start with a base item which is learned from a trainer or schematic and when you Reverse Engineer it, you have the potential of discovering a schematic for an improved version of the item."

 

Whilst experienced crafters understand exactly what you mean, I wonder whether new players or crafters might be a tad confused and think you mean you get the base item itself from the trainer.

 

Would the following wording be better?

 

"You start with a base schematic purchased from a trainer, the GTN, or found from a mission or loot drop. Create the base item and when you Reverse Engineer it, you have the potential of discovering a schematic for an improved version of the item."

 

Hope this is useful.

 

Regards

Wolf

 

P.S. Totally jealous over the 5 star rating and sticky Guess I'll keep working on my guide in the hope

[StrikeQ]

I've done some testing on this and it seems to be quite reliable:

 

Your chances of a successful RE increase by repeating the same object. I've done several runs of RE'ng a long string of different items and haven't had one success. When I do long strings of the same item after about 5 or 6 then I start having successes and soon start getting all sub-schematics one after another. I've tried this a few times and it seems to be the trick.

 

Instead of RE'ng items as soon as you make them, save them up until you have a good load, then RE them all one after another. Not only will your chances of getting the next level improve but your chances of getting the specific branch will increase to the point of a guarantee.

 

Anyone else notice this?

 

Not in my case, I've RE'd ~67 blue Resolve implants in a row trying to get my tanking one. Never got it, started alternating in a strength implant. About 44 more blue resolves and still no pattern, but I did get a blue and a purple for the strength.

[Yzaxtol]

There is a small omission in the guide in reference to Tier 2 Prefixes of a Prototype design.

 

Improving a Prototype Design (Blue from the Trainer/GNT) improves the quality to Artifact with a Tier 1 Prefix (Redoubt/Overkill/Critical) this also improves the rating (extra armor/weapon damage etc.)

 

Improving the above Tier 1 Prefix gives a Tier 2 Prefix HOWEVER it is still an artifact, with the same Rating as the Tier 1 Prefix but with extra stats depending on the Tier 2 Prefix.

 

Example: http://i.imgur.com/FaAaY.jpg

 

I also have a theory about the Critical Suffix and that it depends on the Prefix and not the quality.

This mainly coming from the Rakata bracers becoming Exceptional.

 

Base -> Exceptional

Tier1 -> Advanced

Tier2 -> Mastercraft

 

E.g.

Anti-Armor Heavy Military Belt [Mastercraft]

Rakata Field Medic's Bracers [Exceptional]

Redoubt RD-02B Combat Boots [Advanced]

 

Also from what I can tell from browsing the GNT and my own Armormech schematics is that Armor (after Level 30) When improved from Premium to Prototype the Item's rating is improved by 10, apparently this improvement is capped at 10 and is the biggest jump in rating I've seen so far, however when it is turned into an Artifact the rating is improved by bit less (6 at Level 30 and 8 at Level 50).

 

So the maximum Rating a 49 Premium Armor can be improved to is 126.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Yzaxtol

[Arch-Stanton]

if there is collection of such info, link would be much appreciated. it's just that it sounds... overly complicated.

 

on the topic of REing/critting artifact-grade base items, I'd like to point out that all the recipes (that I managed to find) are recipes for pieces normally sold by dungeon vendors.

knowing this, it just feels that the item is as it is, no chance of getting better. I sadly have no info to back this up in any way.

 

Yes, I will at work.

[Arch-Stanton]

Has anyone been able to figure out how big the stat bonuses will be for Reboubt/Overkill, etc. I noticed that most of the item sites out there don't have the upgraded schematics.

 

I've been poking at the game data, and the upgraded schematics items aren't in there. (The base item is). I'm thinking there must be a table or a formula, in game, that computes the bonus, based on something (item level, quality, skill level, slot, something...)

 

Thoughts?

 

This is worth checking out, definitely. I was playing around with the relationship between "Rating", "Difficulty", and "Level", which is kind of interesting. Initially I thought there was a directly proportional relationship, but what I THINK I'm seeing now is that "Difficulty" is dependent on your character's level when you created the item, how many times you have crafted it, and/or a few other variables.

 

This would also make sense for crafting probabilities, its not just a straight percentage probability, but could include quite a few more variables. So its not just a matter of "You have a 2% chance of crafting this item with your current Armormech Level", but there could be quite a few other variable dependencies that prevent from being a straight probability.

[HarvardAce]

Nice updates with the guide, I think version 2 does clear it up a bit. However, I did notice a few things that are not 100% accurate and can fill in a blank or two:

 

1. Critically crafting an item mod (anything that gets slotted into a custom item, so mods, armorings, enhancements, hilts, crystals, and barrels) is either not possible or has no effect. I've crafted over 500 of these types of mods and have never once gotten anything different, even when the response by my companion indicates a critical craft.
   
2. Critically crafting a consumable biotech item results in two of the item instead of the usual one.
   
3. Unknown about critically crafting grenades as I haven't tried enough to date. I would expect those to follow the biotech consumables.
   
4. Grenades and ship parts are not reverse engineerable, despite the ability to craft them. You indicate in your guide that any item you can craft is reverse engineerable.
   
5. As of a few days ago, cybertechs could reverse engineer some offhand shields/foci/generators, at least ones that were drops/given as quest rewards. If you tried to do so, you got an error that no reverse engineering information could be found, the item was destroyed, and you got nothing in return. This is a bug as artificers are the ones that craft those types of items (and they can successfully RE them to get items/schematics).
   
6. If you start with a base prototype (blue) item, I don't believe that the rating of the item increases when you go from T1 artifact to T2 artifact -- you only get the increase when you change the rarity of the item (from green to blue or blue to purple).
   
7. The bug with tooltips not showing correctly when you link an RE'ed item is slated to be fixed as part of the 1.1 patch (according to the currently available patch notes).
   

[Descento]

I have a question about Shotguns: are all of them bugged? Even the green schematics that you learn from a trainer - i can't discover the blue/purple version of it through RE?

[Slaign]

Hi Slaign,

 

Nice rewrite, as always hats off to you for the continued hard work.

 

On minor thing I noticed (this may have been in the original version and I missed it), you use the following phrase a couple of times

 

"You start with a base item which is learned from a trainer or schematic and when you Reverse Engineer it, you have the potential of discovering a schematic for an improved version of the item."

 

Whilst experienced crafters understand exactly what you mean, I wonder whether new players or crafters might be a tad confused and think you mean you get the base item itself from the trainer.

 

Would the following wording be better?

 

"You start with a base schematic purchased from a trainer, the GTN, or found from a mission or loot drop. Create the base item and when you Reverse Engineer it, you have the potential of discovering a schematic for an improved version of the item."

 

Hope this is useful.

 

Regards

Wolf

 

P.S. Totally jealous over the 5 star rating and sticky Guess I'll keep working on my guide in the hope

 

While I'd imagine most people understand what I meant, you're change certainly makes it clearer so I'll edit the guide with similar wording. Thank you.

 

As for your guide, definitely keep at it. The more info we have on crafting the better.

 

There is a small omission in the guide in reference to Tier 2 Prefixes of a Prototype design.

 

Improving a Prototype Design (Blue from the Trainer/GNT) improves the quality to Artifact with a Tier 1 Prefix (Redoubt/Overkill/Critical) this also improves the rating (extra armor/weapon damage etc.)

 

Improving the above Tier 1 Prefix gives a Tier 2 Prefix HOWEVER it is still an artifact, with the same Rating as the Tier 1 Prefix but with extra stats depending on the Tier 2 Prefix.

 

Example: http://i.imgur.com/FaAaY.jpg

 

 

Awesome, I was actually wondering about that while I was doing my rewrite but I couldn't check at the time. Thanks for not only reminding me, but giving me the information!

 

I also have a theory about the Critical Suffix and that it depends on the Prefix and not the quality.

This mainly coming from the Rakata bracers becoming Exceptional.

 

Base -> Exceptional

Tier1 -> Advanced

Tier2 -> Mastercraft

 

E.g.

Anti-Armor Heavy Military Belt [Mastercraft]

Rakata Field Medic's Bracers [Exceptional]

Redoubt RD-02B Combat Boots [Advanced]

 

That's my understanding as well and the guide should reflect that. If it's unclear on this point let me know.

 

Also from what I can tell from browsing the GNT and my own Armormech schematics is that Armor (after Level 30) When improved from Premium to Prototype the Item's rating is improved by 10, apparently this improvement is capped at 10 and is the biggest jump in rating I've seen so far, however when it is turned into an Artifact the rating is improved by bit less (6 at Level 30 and 8 at Level 50).

 

So the maximum Rating a 49 Premium Armor can be improved to is 126.

 

Interesting stuff. I'm not going to try to put that in the guide as of right now, because I don't know a lot about the math the system uses. I'd rather keep it about the basic mechanics of how the system works. If someone comes up with some solid math on how the system determines stats and ratings that can be shown to apply to the whole system, I'll create a math section, but that's not something I'll be trying to figure out myself.

[Slaign]

Nice updates with the guide, I think version 2 does clear it up a bit. However, I did notice a few things that are not 100% accurate and can fill in a blank or two:

 

 

Critically crafting an item mod (anything that gets slotted into a custom item, so mods, armorings, enhancements, hilts, crystals, and barrels) is either not possible or has no effect. I've crafted over 500 of these types of mods and have never once gotten anything different, even when the response by my companion indicates a critical craft.

 

Interesting, will make note of that in the guide.

 

Critically crafting a consumable biotech item results in two of the item instead of the usual one.

 

This is already in the guide but I'll make it more clear in reference to Biochem.

 

Unknown about critically crafting grenades as I haven't tried enough to date. I would expect those to follow the biotech consumables.

 

Let me know if you find out more.

 

Grenades and ship parts are not reverse engineerable, despite the ability to craft them. You indicate in your guide that any item you can craft is reverse engineerable.

 

Alright, will make a note of it in the guide.

 

As of a few days ago, cybertechs could reverse engineer some offhand shields/foci/generators, at least ones that were drops/given as quest rewards. If you tried to do so, you got an error that no reverse engineering information could be found, the item was destroyed, and you got nothing in return. This is a bug as artificers are the ones that craft those types of items (and they can successfully RE them to get items/schematics).

 

Will add this to the bugs section.

 

If you start with a base prototype (blue) item, I don't believe that the rating of the item increases when you go from T1 artifact to T2 artifact -- you only get the increase when you change the rarity of the item (from green to blue or blue to purple).

 

Yep, this was just pointed out in a post right above yours and I've made the change now.

 

The bug with tooltips not showing correctly when you link an RE'ed item is slated to be fixed as part of the 1.1 patch (according to the currently available patch notes).

 

Awesome news, will make a note of it.

 

Excellent collection of feedback, thanks a lot!

 

I have a question about Shotguns: are all of them bugged? Even the green schematics that you learn from a trainer - i can't discover the blue/purple version of it through RE?

 

That's what seems to be happening, yes. No shotgun or vibroknife has been successfully upgraded via RE as far as I know.

[Anavarra]

Great rewrite on the new guide!

 

I was thinking about this earlier, and thought this might be a (slightly amusing) note to add to the "Pros" section of armor crafting.

 

Pro:

Crafted armor is cheaper to repair than modded armor.

 

I found this out a couple of nights again when everyone in my EV group kept complaining about how ridiculously expensive their repair bills were. Most of my gear is crafted Artifacts that I've made, and, when compared to the repair bills that people wearing fully modded gear were paying, my repair cost was significantly less expensive.

[Toccss]

Going to ask my question again as it seems to have been missed.

 

If I... let’s say buy a 23 Hilt from the commendations vendor do you know if its possible to gain the schematics by RE'ing it?

[daemian]

Nice work, this guide has been extremely helpful! Your work is much appreciated.

[Slaign]

Great rewrite on the new guide!

 

I was thinking about this earlier, and thought this might be a (slightly amusing) note to add to the "Pros" section of armor crafting.

 

Pro:

Crafted armor is cheaper to repair than modded armor.

 

I found this out a couple of nights again when everyone in my EV group kept complaining about how ridiculously expensive their repair bills were. Most of my gear is crafted Artifacts that I've made, and, when compared to the repair bills that people wearing fully modded gear were paying, my repair cost was significantly less expensive.

 

Very interesting, I will make a note of that, thanks.

 

Going to ask my question again as it seems to have been missed.

 

If I... let’s say buy a 23 Hilt from the commendations vendor do you know if its possible to gain the schematics by RE'ing it?

 

I actually didn't miss it, I just hadn't replied yet because it's been discussed a lot throughout this thread. I didn't not reply out of malice, mind you, I just prioritize replying to questions and comments that haven't been answered. That said, I understand the thread is huge and there is no search function, so like I said it's not a matter of malice.

 

To answer the question, as best we know you cannot learn schematics by reverse engineering items you cannot craft. This is hard to prove conclusively, but that's the collective experience of the people who have posted here.

[Toccss]

Very interesting, I will make a note of that, thanks.

 

 

 

I actually didn't miss it, I just hadn't replied yet because it's been discussed a lot throughout this thread. I didn't not reply out of malice, mind you, I just prioritize replying to questions and comments that haven't been answered. That said, I understand the thread is huge and there is no search function, so like I said it's not a matter of malice.

 

To answer the question, as best we know you cannot learn schematics by reverse engineering items you cannot craft. This is hard to prove conclusively, but that's the collective experience of the people who have posted here.

 

Sorry I didn't mean to come across rude, the question was out to anyone as i know you've done a lot of work with this.

 

Thanks for the reply, if that’s the case then tonight i'll buy a few and give it a test myself. When you say "Cannot craft" do you mean a Cybertech attempting to RE a medpac? or Simply a Cybertech attempting to RE Armouring 22 (one that cannot be trained) *just to be clear*

[tloris]

This mainly coming from the Rakata bracers becoming Exceptional.

 

Rakata Field Medic's Bracers [Exceptional]

 

this. this. was this just an example or do you actually know of crit-crafted Rakata item piece?

SS would be much appreciated.

[Slaign]

Sorry I didn't mean to come across rude, the question was out to anyone as i know you've done a lot of work with this.

 

Thanks for the reply, if that’s the case then tonight i'll buy a few and give it a test myself. When you say "Cannot craft" do you mean a Cybertech attempting to RE a medpac? or Simply a Cybertech attempting to RE Armouring 22 (one that cannot be trained) *just to be clear*

 

No worries, I completely understand. You didn't come across rude. I just wanted to explain why I hadn't answered yet, because I make an effort to read every post made in this thread.

 

When I say "cannot craft" I mean you cannot craft the base item. In other words, if you cannot learn the item through schematics or the trainer, you can't learn any variation of the item via reverse engineering.

 

If you think about how RE works in game, this actually makes a lot of sense. You never learn the schematic for the item you RE, but instead learn a schematic for a better item. So if you were to learn a schematic from RE'ing the vendor items, it would follow that you would learn a schematic for a better item, not the one the vendor sells.

 

Sure that sounds great, but it also sounds very unlikely. If they didn't give you the ability to craft the base item, likely they wouldn't give you the ability to learn an even better version.

 

A few people have tried this, but due to the cost involved, obtaining a conclusive sample size is difficult. Still, since no one has ever reported success in this, I think it's pretty safe to assume it isn't possible.

[Slaign]

this. this. was this just an example or do you actually know of crit-crafted Rakata item piece?

SS would be much appreciated.

 

From this very thread, my friend: http://i.imgur.com/qBa5g.jpg

 

Edited January 10, 2012 by Slaign

[Toccss]

No worries, I completely understand. You didn't come across rude. I just wanted to explain why I hadn't answered yet, because I make an effort to read every post made in this thread.

 

When I say "cannot craft" I mean you cannot craft the base item. In other words, if you cannot learn the item through schematics or the trainer, you can't learn any variation of the item via reverse engineering.

 

If you think about how RE works in game, this actually makes a lot of sense. You never learn the schematic for the item you RE, but instead learn a schematic for a better item. So if you were to learn a schematic from RE'ing the vendor items, it would follow that you would learn a schematic for a better item, not the one the vendor sells.

 

Sure that sounds great, but it also sounds very unlikely. If they didn't give you the ability to craft the base item, likely they wouldn't give you the ability to learn an even better version.

 

A few people have tried this, but due to the cost involved, obtaining a conclusive sample size is difficult. Still, since no one has ever reported success in this, I think it's pretty safe to assume it isn't possible.

 

Ah thanks for the information you've been very helpful.

 

I need to speak to my brother i remember him saying that he RE'ed a random green item and then learnt the prototype schematic for it, he was a Synthweaver. Il let you know if i find anything i'm pretty sure he was mistaken but who knows.

 

Thak you again.

 

Toccs

[Arch-Stanton]

Going to ask my question again as it seems to have been missed.

 

If I... let’s say buy a 23 Hilt from the commendations vendor do you know if its possible to gain the schematics by RE'ing it?

 

Pretty sure the game treats this exactly the same as it would if you had manufactured the item yourself. So for example, if you buy an item and RE it, you have the same odds of achieving the NEXT tier in that same item family as if you had manufactured it yourself. So, for example, if you buy a T1 item and RE it, you will potentially receive a T2 schematic in that item family. However, I would not recommend doing this on a T3 item, because there is no "higher" tier in that family.

 

You don't learn the exact same schematic of the item you RE, but you have a chance at getting the next level schematic.

 

That said, it makes it very pricey to try to learn schematics from GTN. You would have to buy several of the item for a chance at the next tier in that item's family. I did this accidentally early on when I wasn't sure what I was doing. You can test it out with some lower level items if you like, but GTN prices are so wonky you'll have to find an affordable niche.

 

Edit: Forgot to say, this is probably dependent on your crafting skill. I don't think you're going to pull off RE's on items that are much higher rating that what you can currently craft.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Arch-Stanton

[BlazingShadow]

This question is to the OP:

 

I've noticed that Armor Rating jumps when you RE a green to a blue. SPecifically, if you RE a green (108? armor rating) it'll jump to (118? armor rating)

 

My question is why haven't you mentioned the increase in armor rating in your guide, and also would you (or anyone else) happen to know the armor rating for a piece of artifact REd armor.

[Bellator_SW]

Hi, I have a couple of questions in terms of the Armour rating of reverse engineered gear.

 

I have seen from the end game schematics, when the base schematic is Premium Quality rating 108 the following happens:-

 

 

• Premium (rating 108) --RE--> Prototype (rating 118) --RE--> Artifact (rating 126)
  

 

 

From this, based on the rating, I would assume the Tier 2 Artifact craft is equivalent to heroic flashpoint / normal operations drops

 

Question 1 - What happens to the rating for a critical craft of this item, as it would be clearly better taking an augment, but does the rating stay the same or change?

 

Question 2 - What happens when the end game base schematic is Prototype rating 118?

 

 

• Prototype (rating 118) --RE--> Artifact (rating ???) --RE--> Artifact (rating ???)
  

 

 

Are the ??? rating 128 and then 136 making the Tier 2 version of the craft equivalent to heroic operation loot, with crit crafts of these equivalent to nightmare loot?

 

Final Question - I assume there is a relation ship between the item level, item slot and the value increase in crit/power/etc. when an item is reverse engineered. Does anyone know what the formula is?

 

Cheers

[Reeny]

Is Superior Artifact the best schematic that can be known?

 

I recently got a purple schematic from a blue Overkill item.

Schematic has the Superior tag.

Can it be further REed?

 

Thanks!

[BlazingShadow]

Is Superior Artifact the best schematic that can be known?

 

I recently got a purple schematic from a blue Overkill item.

Schematic has the Superior tag.

Can it be further REed?

 

Thanks!

 

No, but it can turn to Mastercraft if you craft it with an augment slot.

[Echelar]

Is Superior Artifact the best schematic that can be known?

 

I recently got a purple schematic from a blue Overkill item.

Schematic has the Superior tag.

Can it be further REed?

 

Thanks!

 

As far as we know, once you get the Tier 2 schematic that says [superior], that's as high as you can go.

 

Of course, there's no way to really prove that, so continue at your own risk of wasting resources

[Slaign]

This question is to the OP:

 

I've noticed that Armor Rating jumps when you RE a green to a blue. SPecifically, if you RE a green (108? armor rating) it'll jump to (118? armor rating)

 

My question is why haven't you mentioned the increase in armor rating in your guide, and also would you (or anyone else) happen to know the armor rating for a piece of artifact REd armor.

 

It actually is mentioned in the guide:

 

Also note that any time an item improves in quality, it also improves in rating. This means it acquires more armor if it's a piece of armor, or damage if it's a weapon.

 

It used to be more prominent, but it was also wrong. Rating doesn't have anything to do directly with RE, but seems to tie into quality. In other words, when an item changes quality it's rating changes as well, but when it doesn't change quality (A Tier 1 Prefix Artifact being made into a Tier 2 Prefix Artifact) the rating does not increase.

 

If I can think of a way to work this into the guide in a more noticeable manner, I will.

 

Hi, I have a couple of questions in terms of the Armour rating of reverse engineered gear.

 

I have seen from the end game schematics, when the base schematic is Premium Quality rating 108 the following happens:-

 

• Premium (rating 108) --RE--> Prototype (rating 118) --RE--> Artifact (rating 126)
  

 

From this, based on the rating, I would assume the Tier 2 Artifact craft is equivalent to heroic flashpoint / normal operations drops

 

Question 1 - What happens to the rating for a critical craft of this item, as it would be clearly better taking an augment, but does the rating stay the same or change?

 

Question 2 - What happens when the end game base schematic is Prototype rating 118?

 

• Prototype (rating 118) --RE--> Artifact (rating ???) --RE--> Artifact (rating ???)
  

 

Are the ??? rating 128 and then 136 making the Tier 2 version of the craft equivalent to heroic operation loot, with crit crafts of these equivalent to nightmare loot?

 

Final Question - I assume there is a relation ship between the item level, item slot and the value increase in crit/power/etc. when an item is reverse engineered. Does anyone know what the formula is?

 

Cheers

 

I'm sorry, I don't know the math behind the rating and stat increases, merely the theory.