Subdivision of bioware made star wars

[Saltydogg]

All made under EA who has a reputation for ruining games at the expense of money. Hmm..

 

Why does everyone freaking forget one of the largest MMO's to fail by EA. Which was Warhammer. They also had 1.7million subs at launch. A few years later its down to one server of die hards. The game was great, it had alot of potential. However EA just like this game RUSHED it out of testing and development in order to catch the holiday rush. OVerall this game could be great but it was never ready, just like warhammer. You have the name StarWars and Games Workshop backing your product and this is the best they can come up with. You can thank EA for killing both these games.

 

Well at least roll on fatman and get some good pvp action. Lowbie alt rolling while pvp is actually pretty fun there. 2 minute pops or less for WZ.s

[Tiaa]

The real Bioware doesnt really exist anymore, they sold out to EA in like 2007ish

 

Pretty much.

 

Soon as they started the Dragon Age "bank" DLC scam...

 

...I knew they would soon become one of the bad guy developers.

 

They also had 1.7million subs at launch.

 

Pretty sure Warhammer never had 1.7 million subscriptions.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Tiaa

[Darth_Moonshadow]

THAT'S exactly the problem, why it had to be world of warcraft? Wow is designed to suit a Medieval fantasy game with cartoon characters, Star Wars shouldn't have that approach, as not every single scene of the films is about fighting. In fact, most incredible scenes seen on star wars are aboard starships. According to swtor "star wars feeling":

-When Qui-Gon looks for a spare part of the nebula ship in Episode I, the way to obtain it would have been killing a hundred pit droids in his way to watto's shop, and then killing a "watto boss" that, as a mechanic, wields a giant hydrospan that makes the earth shake.

- When Obi-wan and Luke are looking for a transport to Alderaan they got to Mos Eisley cantina leaving a path of corpses in their way in, only to find a "Han Solo boss" that has a special ability consisting in spawning fierce wookie warriors (oops, no, we got no movements for wookies, i meant trandoshans) to fight alongside him. When you defeat him, he becomes, after a couple of lines, one of your crew and so one of your faithfull allies. Yours and the same as a hundred more players.

- When in Battle of Hoth rebels try to evacuate, you manage to destroy every snowtrooper in echo base (about a couple of hundreds) and so rebels don't have to evacuate from the base. You defeat an AT-AT boss named General Veers that summons TIE-Bombers (rebels congratulate you and give you a prototype chest).

In Endor, when ewoks try to capture you, you manage to kill a dozen ewok tribes and finally the "wicket boss", after defeated, gives you the position of secret entrance to imperial back door to bunker. Then you enter the bunker and instead of taking prisoners, you manage to kill the whole legion the Emperor wanted to use as a trap. Then place 20 explosives as a bonus mission.

Come on, this is Final Fantasy, not Star Wars. I think SWGalaxies approach to Star Wars universe was way CLOSER, emphasizing space and ownership of starfighters, variety of real alien races to choose, ownership of droids and objects that were closely related to the objects and gadgets we were used to see in the films, customizing every aspect of your house, your vehicle, your droids, your starfighter, and so creating a real market with really crafted items extremely diverse to choose, so creating a DEEP universe with so much things to do INCLUDING everything you love so much of your wow clone.

 

Galaxies USED to have the feel of Star Wars, but somewhere along the way it veered off. Mostly after the NGE. But I digress. I don't love SWTOR because it's a WoW clone. I love SWTOR because it's a story driven Star Wars game and because honestly, it was a step up from the massacre that Galaxies had become. This game is only a "WoW clone" because everyone wants a WoW clone. People complain about the voice acting, the companions, the story, the flashpoints etc. And the suggestions to make the game better? "Let's have LFG finders, raise mounts, have flying mounts, blah blah blah." All stuff in or going to be in WoW! It's insane how people will bash SWTOR for it's differences from WoW then try to make the game "better" by requesting features FROM WoW, the game they so desperately despise!

[tolaf]

Galaxies USED to have the feel of Star Wars, but somewhere along the way it veered off.

I would say it veered of around the time they decided to close their doors because the launch of SWTOR was just over the horizon.

SWG was a great game that caught the Star Wars feel perfectly, and most of SWG was about socialization, you didn't even have t reach end game to say you had a wonderful experience.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

I would say it veered of around the time they decided to close their doors because the launch of SWTOR was just over the horizon.

SWG was a great game that caught the Star Wars feel perfectly, and most of SWG was about socialization, you didn't even have t reach end game to say you had a wonderful experience.

 

After NGE, I could never say I had a wonderful experience ever again.

 

But whatever.

[ohpleasework]

Pretty sure Warhammer never had 1.7 million subscriptions.

 

They sold 1.2 million units total, though it was made clear that a portion of those were retail boxes that were never sold to customers. At their height they acheived 800k active subscriptions. They lost 38% in four months and dropped to 300k, at which time the game went into maintenance mode as most of Mythic was dismantled and laid off by EA.

 

This is what will soon happen to Bioware Austin and whatever remains of Mythic. The reallocation of Dragon Age 3 assets to the SW:TOR team was clearly a last ditch effort to get 1.3 released as soon as possible, but given what was mentioned in the earnings call, no one at EA or Bioware has any delusions about where this game is going. Keep in mind that they also know the real number of customers subscribing and/or actively playing, which is obviously far, far less than the padded figure of 1.3 million.

 

Tera has already and continues to leech away customers. Diablo 3 will have a serious impact. The server-only LFG tool and transfers instead of mergers will finish the deal. This game will be nothing but an also-ran memory in the annuls of MMO history by years end.

 

And to think, all they had to do was merge servers and release a proper LFG tool two months ago. Amazing isn't it?

Edited May 15, 2012 by ohpleasework

[thomasgallant]

They sold 1.2 million units total, though it was made clear that a portion of those were retail boxes that were never sold to customers. At their height they acheived 800k active subscriptions. They lost 38% in four months and dropped to 300k, at which time the game went into maintenance mode as most of Mythic was dismantled and laid off by EA.

 

This is what will soon happen to Bioware Austin and whatever remains of Mythic. The reallocation of Dragon Age 3 assets to the SW:TOR team was clearly a last ditch effort to get 1.3 released as soon as possible, but given what was mentioned in the earnings call, no one at EA or Bioware has any delusions about where this game is going. Keep in mind that they also know the real number of customers subscribing and/or actively playing, which is obviously far, far less than the padded figure of 1.3 million.

 

Tera has already and continues to leech away customers. Diablo 3 will have a serious impact. The server-only LFG tool and transfers instead of mergers will finish the deal. This game will be nothing but an also-ran memory in the annuls of MMO history by years end.

 

And to think, all they had to do was merge servers and release a proper LFG tool two months ago. Amazing isn't it?

 

sadly your opinion of what will or wont save the game is just that..opinion. some people dont want a lfg tool.. many dont infact. the transfers MAY make a difference in the game, but bioware has not said mergers are out of the question.. they said they may happen.. so there is hope there..

 

but even your suggestion that 1.3 million is a padded figure has no proof to support it.. your entire argument is based on your opinion, which seems to be biased due to tera and diablo 3.. two games that personally i couldnt care much for...see opinions are great arent they?

[thomasgallant]

After NGE, I could never say I had a wonderful experience ever again.

 

But whatever.

 

swg died when they did that crappy balancing act and destroyed half of the classes in like a week.

[ohpleasework]

sadly your opinion of what will or wont save the game is just that..opinion. some people dont want a lfg tool.. many dont infact. the transfers MAY make a difference in the game, but bioware has not said mergers are out of the question.. they said they may happen.. so there is hope there..

 

but even your suggestion that 1.3 million is a padded figure has no proof to support it.. your entire argument is based on your opinion, which seems to be biased due to tera and diablo 3.. two games that personally i couldnt care much for...see opinions are great arent they?

 

You post was an example of the relativist fallacy, the second most common logical fallacy committed by mouth-breathing forum fanboys. Yay! Congratulations! Your prize is a continued lack of ingenuity or critical thinking.

 

No proof to support the fact that 1.3 million was a padded number... haha, that's rich.

[Jedipwnsauce]

funny thing is Failcom did the Secret world i played that beta last weekend and it had full voice acting and a story that interested me way more than either of my 2 lvl 50s on this game..although that game will inevitably suffer the same fate that swtor did.. once the stories are done its all about the purples and end game. swtors soloution seems to be to tell everyone to go back and do the story again on a different character.

[Wolfeisberg]

nvm... Edited May 15, 2012 by Wolfeisberg

[Spankyjnco]

I wish they would actually respond to posts like these to clear up all the uncertainties involved with this game.

 

ugh

 

What do they need to speak up in this post about? All information that has been asked by the TC has been answered in it already, and can easily be found by typing the question out on google.. its not rocket science here, it's business. Yes the company that made this game is not the original bioware team (duh...), nor was it crated primarily in bioware HQ, it was a subdivision, in Austin, made up of groups of people from fail MMOs and MMOs that don't exist anymore, and a few writes from HQ that left right after they were done w/ their inputs into the script.

 

Simple.

[rickyard]

Galaxies USED to have the feel of Star Wars, but somewhere along the way it veered off. Mostly after the NGE. But I digress. I don't love SWTOR because it's a WoW clone. I love SWTOR because it's a story driven Star Wars game and because honestly, it was a step up from the massacre that Galaxies had become. This game is only a "WoW clone" because everyone wants a WoW clone. People complain about the voice acting, the companions, the story, the flashpoints etc. And the suggestions to make the game better? "Let's have LFG finders, raise mounts, have flying mounts, blah blah blah." All stuff in or going to be in WoW! It's insane how people will bash SWTOR for it's differences from WoW then try to make the game "better" by requesting features FROM WoW, the game they so desperately despise!

 

Agree, I feel terribly sad each time i see someone complaining and then their "solution" are things like flying mounts or LFG finders, as if the game was only lacking that couple of details to be fun. Then got a question or suggestion. If star wars Galaxies preNGE was so great, (i really found myself LIVING in star wars universe) why don't we learn from past errors and do a new SWG without its flaws??? Instead, let's copy the best seller, emulate success and so we will have same success. It is not the first time Lucasarts does something similar: When Doom rocked, they did Dark Forces, but had some IMPROVEMENTS over the original DOOM and of course the main character had not a chainsaw. It was doom, but BRILLIANTLY LOCATED, not just TRANSLATED (do I make myself clear? hehe). DOOM was a serial killer, but Katarn in Dark Forces even could JUMP, seems few, but ENOUGH to have the game more THEMED with SW universe, as some missions were infiltration. Same with X-Wing, it was not simply a translation of Flight Simulator, not even a remake of Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe with black sky, they DID GREAT JOB, a brilliant game, immersive, a GEM, that only get better with the adition of STORY in X-Wing Alliance. To copy some gameplay elements doesn't mean you have to get rid of elements that are NEEDED in your game just because they don't exist in the game you are copying. Example? In SW Galactic Battlegrounds Lucasarts even chose "Age of Empires" engine, itr was a copy of a successfull game, but they managed to do flying units that didn't exist in the original, so UPGRADING the experience. It was a success. BUT if you need GET RID of SPACE, DIFFERENT RACES or some role playing elements, just because the game being copyed has not, or just have chosen a "genre" or "gameplay" that don't allow you to do CRITICAL needs for Star Wars Universe, this is FAIL.

[Andryah]

There dead to you yet you keep posting on their forums

 

He is corpse camping.....in his own little world that is.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Andryah

[Andryah]

I just had my friend tell me this... anyone know if this is true?

 

Would explain alot of things.

 

What exactly would it explain?

 

Bioware in fact has facilities in 8 different locations, with Austin and Edmonton being their primary design studios.

 

If you are looking to follow the tin foil conspiracy theories about Mythic..... that studio remains in Fairfax Virginia. They are responsible for ongoing operations of Warhammer, Ultima, and Dark Age of Camelot. Roughly 120 people.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Andryah

[Jalez]

Mythic struck gold with Dark Age of Camelot in 2002, I still play it today as it offfers the best and most competitive PvP of any MMO Ive ever played, and Ive played them all.

 

That being said, the Mythic designers that made DAoC left a long time ago. Matt Firor was the part of the braintrust.that developed DAoC and he left Mythic in 2004 ish, now hes lead designer for Elder Scrolls Online, which I think is going to be a very good "spiritual successor" too DAoC, GW2 I would also consider a sucessor to DAoC also as they have original DAoC people advising them also.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Jalez

[rbkrbk]

Man, they used to be located on Whyte Ave and have relocated to Sherwood Park, Alberta.

 

They moved because they they realized they were cheering for the Oilers, and Whyte Ave would never party again. Silly Edmonton, our Red Mile is superior!

[rbkrbk]

Only one of those is a bad game. ME3 is a great game with a bad ending, but the same can be said for the original Star Wars trilogy and everyone got over it. SWTOR is a good game that people expected to be the next WoW. This IS the first MMO Bioware has created and success or fail, they will learn from it and create a better one next time.

 

So everyone cool your jets and stop blaming Bioware for bad gaming experiences.

 

So let me get this straight. You want us to give developers money, bot for the initial sale of the game and a recurring monthly cost, so that we can facilitate their trial and error process until they get it right, and perhaps one day, we'll have a better-than-a-fruitfly management of the game?

[ISTrick]

These treasured critics have indeed opened my eyes to some very disturbing facets about this game. In fact, I'm strongly considering unsubscribing from this thread.

 

^^ Highlight of this pretty, pretty, pretty good thread.

 

I feel like a schmo-hawk just from reading it.

Edited May 16, 2012 by ISTrick

[Tuscad]

Why does everyone freaking forget one of the largest MMO's to fail by EA. Which was Warhammer. They also had 1.7million subs at launch. A few years later its down to one server of die hards. The game was great, it had alot of potential. However EA just like this game RUSHED it out of testing and development in order to catch the holiday rush. OVerall this game could be great but it was never ready, just like warhammer. You have the name StarWars and Games Workshop backing your product and this is the best they can come up with. You can thank EA for killing both these games.

 

Well at least roll on fatman and get some good pvp action. Lowbie alt rolling while pvp is actually pretty fun there. 2 minute pops or less for WZ.s

 

I find it funny that the same team that worked on PvP in Warhammer is doing the PvP in this game.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

So let me get this straight. You want us to give developers money, bot for the initial sale of the game and a recurring monthly cost, so that we can facilitate their trial and error process until they get it right, and perhaps one day, we'll have a better-than-a-fruitfly management of the game?

 

No. I'm saying everyone has their lows and highs. So if you're going to ask for Bioware's Devs to be fired because you can't play an Ewok, you should probably go to Rocksteady and ask that everyone who worked on Batman: Arkham City be given a Texas funeral for not including Batgirl. Because, hey, if you're going to be an unreasonable consumer, you should go full loco in the coco!

[Tuscad]

you should probably go to Rocksteady and ask that everyone who worked on Batman: Arkham City be given a Texas funeral for not including Batgirl.

 

Gordon was paralyzed from the waste down, so Batgirl wouldn't have made since, we would have had to play Oracle...

Edited May 16, 2012 by Tuscad

[Racetrack]

and whats wrong with mythic ? they made the best pvp mmo so far and iam not talking about WAR....

 

Mythic is eternally cursed for what they did to a loyal fanbase that helped build up their resources by paying ridiculous prices on AOL. They are the definition of awful customer service, and DAoC only remains because of the PVP system that was created from the code of their MUDs (the very same ones that still had paying customers, customers who had been with them for over fifteen to twenty years at again ridiculous prices) which they allowed EA to shut down once they completed the sale.

 

They ruin everything they touch now because they care more about money than creating fulfilling games with long-term vision. It did not help that they let one of their most passionate and visionary employees go and he ended up heading direct competition.

[Xsorus]

A. Star Wars is not a failure, in pretty much every realistic term it has done well. Has it done WoW well? No, however most MMO's don't do what WoW has done.

 

B. Star Wars problem is the same as every other MMO released since WoW, and that is that WoW exists. Before WoW came out, you ended up having MMO's be released, have 12 or so servers and 200-300k population. This kept the game active. It doesn't work like this anymore, You look at any MMO released since then and you see that everyone of them has to have far far to many servers at launch because a bunch of bored WoW players are dog piling the servers. Then the leave after one month leaving those servers empty, which causes the whole "Game is dying post" when in reality, every MMO experience's this it just wasn't as pronounced before WoW came out.

 

C. The solution to this problem is simple, Don't release your MMO without server transfers at the start. If you were to cut SWTOR's servers in half right now, the game would probably have a pretty healthy population, Right now that population is spread out on far to many servers.

 

D. Warhammer suffered the same fate as SWTOR is now, however what remains to be seen is how much support SWTOR's gets from EA. they were working on a War expansion pack when it was canceled after EA decided that it wasn't going to have WoW population. That's he death kneel for these MMO's, What people forget is Expansions are not only for bringing new players in, They're for keeping old players and bring old players back. So if this game doesn't have an expansion announced within a year, You know that support for it has pretty much ceased.

[Sirsri]

I just had my friend tell me this... anyone know if this is true?

 

Would explain alot of things.

 

 

BioWare was originally based in edmonton Alberta, canada. They were founded before the oil boom drove costs through the roof. They still have, about 360 employees there, last I heard, which was november. These guys did EVERYTHING Bioware until SWTOR and ME3. That's their 'main' studio still, though when looking to expand if you're not mining oil you want to get away from alberta. Costs are too high, and the labour market prohibitive, for years and years and years BioWare was the only game studio in Edmonton. At one point this was the top employer in canada if you don't count being an oil industry or bank executive.

 

For SWTOR they outsourced development to Austin Texas, where they hired a bunch of industry veterans (who else would you get in austin but former SOE and NCSOFT people, as well as from the plethora of small companies, and people you can pay to move to austin, Blizzard also has a support centre there). At that point they were bought by EA. There are about 400 people at the austin studio.

 

After they were bought by EA they wanted *another* studio, and their MMO property was managerially separate from Edmonton anyway. So EA gave them a choice, set up shop somewhere there is an existing EA facility. They went with Montreal, because there's space, talent in montreal, and the quebec government pitches in about 50 cents on the dollar to game companies where ontario, San fran and austin are only about 40 cents (and EA has no studio in Ontario anyway). The Montreal studio did a bunch of multiplayer on Mass Effect 3 and is working on a C&C title.

 

Ancillary to the Austin development teams are the support sites and server farms.

 

 

 

But lets put a little more thought into this. Edmonton is a bloody cold place to live, especially if you're used to california. I'm canadian and I don't even want to live in edmonton. There are a lot of good developers who wouldn't (and couldn't) move to edmonton, especially if they have pre-existing health conditions we (Canada) won't let them in, and no one in the BioWare edmonton team would have known anything about running a million person 200 server MMO, that's a huge infrastructure challenge. Now the thing is, if you *like* edmonton, you're going to hate Texas. Politically they aren't that far apart, but in terms of climate, social services (healthcare, day care, night life etc.) you may as well be moving to the other side of the planet. Getting good people to move (or forcing them to) isn't a great plan. So they needed MMO veterans, and they got a bunch, the ones willing to live in Austin. The BioWare guys in edmonton, some of them will done work on SWTOR, but they've had ME, Dragon Age etc. to work on. So you get their other studio, and I wouldn't call it the B team, they're just a different team, hired to fill a different role, and with different constraints, but they also were a new team, using new tools, and that hasn't done them any favours.