Bioware on HUTTBALL

[Delidumrul]

huttball very similar to football, lets give an example:

"Hey Messi you have great with the ball skills and finishing moves, its unfair! after now u will play less with the ball and let ur teammate Valdes (or who ever the goalkeeper is) score! Understood?! "

how wise is the above statement?

 

every class has a role defence, control, offence in huttball just like football or any other team sports.

[cashogy]

2 sages and a guardian can defeat 8 players in huttball. what the other 5 players on teh sage/guardian's team does is irrelevant, b/c those 3 players can take the ball from mid to endzone in 60s tops, with ease.

 

put the emphasis on passing game, positioning, and ball movement rather than on class composition. its a joke right now, and if it makes it to ranked warzones its not even going to be worth playing

 

huttball very similar to football, lets give an example:

"Hey Messi you have great with the ball skills and finishing moves, its unfair! after now u will play less with the ball and let ur teammate Valdes (or who ever the goalkeeper is) score! Understood?! "

how wise is the above statement?

 

every class has a role defence, control, offence in huttball just like football or any other team sports.

 

this is a poor analogy, because messi is one of the most skilled soccer players in the world. he worked very hard to reach that level of play, and he deserves to make other players look silly with his phenomenal ball handling and shooting ability.

 

there is no skill involved in pressing a button and leaping to your teammate. the sage + guardian combo is able to dominate huttball regardless of their opponent's skill level.

Edited May 14, 2012 by cashogy

[pbxsparx]

huttball very similar to football, lets give an example:

"Hey Messi you have great with the ball skills and finishing moves, its unfair! after now u will play less with the ball and let ur teammate Valdes (or who ever the goalkeeper is) score! Understood?! "

how wise is the above statement?

 

every class has a role defence, control, offence in huttball just like football or any other team sports.

 

A poor analogy indeed.

 

Your statement just proves that composition does trump player skills. You're instantly branding leapers as the Messi of the huttball match because they have the skill to score with ease. And sages being the Ozil or Iniesta. The rest of the team which are troopers and smugglers are branded as Maicon or Pique and possibly a Casillas.

[Delidumrul]

here is ur analogy => u cant compare a goal scorer with a goal keeper.

u cant expect both have exactly the same skills. it doesnt mean one is better than other, it means one has better skills for finishing, one has better reflexes to catch the ball etc.

names were stated to be more clear.

besides the "skill" here is the skills which given to the class, not ur playing skills as a human.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Delidumrul

[pbxsparx]

Which is exactly the point, Huttball is the only warzone wherein it's obvious that Composition trumps Player Skills.

[Vales]

The OP's suggestion is useless.

 

A) This game doesn't have PvP .... it has CC Wars. I didn't think ANYONE could design a worse PvP system than WoW, but BioWare did it. This isn't about fighting, its about who has their CC and CC-counters off CD. That person wins.

 

B) The other half of their problem is, they put level 49's in the same damned game as level 10s. That has never worked, it will never work, and anyone who buys into the "we buff you up" crap, needs to share what they are smoking. "We buff you up" is just an excuse to not have to do it right, and introduce level brackets. Pure LAZY.

 

C) Huttball is just a piss-poor design. You don't design a PvP arena based on obstacles, and then make two classes that can by-pass the obstacles at will. It simply shows BioWare's inexperience at designing MMOs, and it show the Mythic team was either AWOL in this design, ignored, or too scared to say anything.

 

D) The majority of us are just burned out on Huttball (hell we're burned out on the entire PvP design in general). They shoveled this crap arena down our throats sooo much pre-1.2 that most of us would never miss it if it were taken out of the game right this minute.

 

As for the OP's suggestion ... the problem with huttball is, two classes have a huge advantage because they can ignore the obstacles. The problem with the suggested fix is, two classes have a huge advantage because they can totally ignore the obstacles. All they have to do is pass the ball to a non-"leaper", leap to where they want to go, and have it passed back to them. If your team is lucky enough to have two (or more) "leapers", nothing is accomplished but the suggested fix.

 

We're just frustrated. We were frustrated before 1.2, we realize that 1.2 didn't fix a damned thing ... and now because of the population we're frustrated that we can't get the one thing most of us are still here for, to pop.

 

Rarely read so much nonsense in one post. Especially when you claimed that CC in WoW was less of a problem as it is in this game albeit with proper CC chains you can get CCed for 3-4 times the duration if your CC breaker is on CD.

That comment in your very first point showed me that you have no idea about either game and the other points proved that even more but I do not want to waste my time pointing out the big errors there sufficient to say wrong on all points.

 

Which is exactly the point, Huttball is the only warzone wherein it's obvious that Composition trumps Player Skills.

 

So where is your proof for your claim?

Edited May 14, 2012 by Vales

[Itchy_Bum]

I have found that while yes, having guardians/sages and equivalents is a huge help to moving the ball. If your guardian(s) are chain cc and your sages are focused before they can get in good positions, it can mitigate some of this.

 

When going up against the better premades on my servers I tend to be cced a lot so as to do their best to ensure the guardian does not get the ball. This is a good strategy. Also the benefits you are talking about with the ball mobility only work if you let them get the ball to begin with.

 

Since 1.2 came out even good geared guardians ie full tank spec over 1,200 expertise are rather squishy when focused by 2-3 people.

 

And also on the flip side on defence both guardians and sages have it roguh compared to the vanguard and the shadow who can harpoon / suck the enemy to a specific position as opposed to attempting to push them and perhaps having a slight delay and pushing them in a slightly incorrect direction. Getting sucked into fire when you have already had to use your move to break out of the cc earlier works very good.

 

Just remember vanguards can storm, shadows can speed run... and smugglers can heal their butts off or control mid without being nice force leap targets.

 

I probably win around 84% of the huttball games I play (5/6), and the ones I am involved in winning I get the ball and score quite a bit. Some of the games I am in that I do not win, I am kept away from the ball. What do teams do in basketball when they are up against a stud? They double team him, think of huttball from a sporting angle as well.

[Arayla]

Offensive pulls of the trooper and shadow are significantly superior to the defensive pulls of the sage, much more versitility in huttball. I'm willing to place bets that we will see nerf grapple threads once rateds appear.

[Odahviin]

Q&A May 11, 2012

 

 

 

I am sorry but I just find this response to be hilarious.

 

All top PvP players in any server knows that HUTTBALL is the only Warzone that trumps skill vs composition. Having neither a consular nor a knight in a game of huttball VS an opposing team with either or having both the mentioned classes pretty much sums up the result of the WZ before it had even started.

 

The statistics mentioned (top 100 win ratios), I'm wondering if this was specifically the WIN RATIO from only huttball itself. Because I'm lead to believe that if the team composition of majority if not full consulars and knights aren't even in the top 100 WIN RATIO compositions for huttball that the data gathered is definitely false OR there must really be too many people lacking skills playing the specified classes in the game of huttball.

 

The issue is that the Obstacles in HUTTBALL could easily be disregarded by the 2 classes. There are 3 levels of floors starting from the pit (trench) up until the highest floor (3rd). Picture it and just imagine how knights could just bypass most of the pathway and obstacles provided they have a visible target to leap to, now compare it with the other 3 classes. How much path must these 3 classes travel to be able to get to the 2nd level from the pit? Or from the 2nd level to the 3rd? Now the sages on the other hand do need to travel to a designated spot before they could help a team member bypass these obstacles/pathway with their rescue but still the point is again the obstacles could be disregarded.

 

The suggested solution is simple, Ball Carrier no matter what class it may be it just cannot use any mobility aid. Take the slow debuff off of the ball and make ball carriers run at normal combat speed. Cannot leap cannot be rescued, let all classes walk the path they should be walking to score. Encourage the use of the feature "Throw the Huttball" and let players learn how to really pass effectively and position themselves whilst guarding their posts rather than right after getting the ball have the mentality of "OH WE HAVE A GUARDIAN PASS IT TO HIM AND HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF THE REST".

 

This is of course just my opinion.

 

everyone has a role in huttball, every class can run the ball or act in a supporting role for the carrier.

 

I'm not sure what your beef is?

Edited May 14, 2012 by Odahviin

[Itchy_Bum]

On a side note, most of the wins come from either (a) going up against poor pre-mades, (b) going up against imperial opposition who seem to have lost all their pro players who have either done the Lebron James and joined the biggest (best overall - ie pvp guild with 2-4 solid 4man teams [number of good 4man premades may be higher now]) pvp guild on the server IT (republic side) as opposed to trying to keep the imp side strong.

 

I am hoping when rated comes out it will help improve the quality of the opposition but it seems that the other guilds dont seem to show face anymore;(

[Shardas]

Weapons, name calling, and cheating are all encouraged!

 

So... Maybe certain classes do have it easier in Huttball but isn't that completely what it's all about? I understand that some classes are more indestructible or more versatile than other classes in Huttball. Those are valid points. But still I'm sure that every class has a role in Huttball. Granted, a team of eight snipers probably won't be able to win, but other than that? I mean you aren't stuck with the ball. You are allowed and encouraged to pass it. That's basically just as good as being pulled. You just have build your formation a little more carefully.

 

That's what I think anyway.

[BambulaGTS]

Seems a lot of generalization in BW reply.

 

Huttball:

 

1) No marauder = not getting the first ball.

 

2) No tankassasin, jugg = not getting to score ever.

 

3) No tankassin, powertechs pulls = not getting to stop proper ball carrier ever.

 

By other roles they probably were reffering IA classes and RDD. Controlling the hazard lines were probably about operatives and cover defense were probably about snipers, while controlling the middle were about RDD in general.

 

Actually RDD can not control middle if ball is camped by stealther (tankassin trololo ). You can not kill what you can not see.

 

Operatives. They fill resolve .

 

Snipers. They can not kill proper ball carrier under CDs and "cover defense" is possible only if entrench is not on CD, because nobody let u sit in cover without entrench with 30 m stuns and mezzes.

 

I do not believe in "steeper learning curves". I believe that some class mechanincs are too good for that specific warzone map.

[TheronFett]

this is a terrible solution, and would only make the problem worse.

 

the correct way to make huttball require teamwork and not the largest number of force using classes would be to prevent the ball carrier from being affected by all movement effects. no force speed, no friendly or enemy pulls, no knockback, etc. the emphasis of the game would then be on passing, positioning, and ball movement.

 

right now, 3 players can win huttball against a group of 8. 2 sorcs and a jugg, and you can score in about 30 seconds, rinse repeat. if this makes it to ranked warzones it is going to be a joke

 

Agreed.

 

I'd love to know where ol' Gabe gets his metrics, because they're definitely not indicative of the results seen by players since beta or any current server.

[pbxsparx]

everyone has a role in huttball, every class can run the ball or act in a supporting role for the carrier.

 

I'm not sure what your beef is?

 

Situation 1: Ball carrier is a leaper on the last fire hazard before goal line. He gets knocked back but then could instantly leap back to where he was just at. It's that easy.

 

Situation 2: Ball carrier is a non leaper on the last fire hazard before goal line. He gets knocked back, now if there are no team mates anywhere near where he was just at then that's another 30 secs of walking while being shot at to get back to where he was just at. End of story.

 

There's the beef.

[kuey]

Don't you love Bioware's generic, unspecific answers? I'd really love to see what they view as the roll of each class. Wonder what kinda lame excuse of a roll a dps Scoundrel/Op would have in Huttball.

[Vales]

Situation 1: Ball carrier is a leaper on the last fire hazard before goal line. He gets knocked back but then could instantly leap back to where he was just at. It's that easy.

 

Situation 2: Ball carrier is a non leaper on the last fire hazard before goal line. He gets knocked back, now if there are no team mates anywhere near where he was just at then that's another 30 secs of walking while being shot at to get back to where he was just at. End of story.

 

There's the beef.

 

I guess passing, stunning and using LoS properly is out of question....

Edited May 14, 2012 by Vales

[evhallion]

I kind of have to agree.

 

A jugg/guardian should not be able to charge anyone, if he's holding the ball or otherwise, because people should KNOW by now that they can, and therefore make sure they can't.

 

As for sorcs.. They die.. really easily. If you see one of them on your end, kill them or at least knock them down a floor. Yes I'm a sorc so I'm biased but I'm serious though, just kill them.

 

Huttball is as much postitioning as it is awareness of the field. If you see a ball carrier and your some from your team trying to kill him, instead of going in trying to kill him you to, look around, see if he has anyone to pass/intercede or if there's a sorc and get those guys instead.

 

I love huttball because of all these elements, it's not a zergfest. It's much more than that.

 

I have to agree with this and all others who posted the same. You want to nerf abilities for your lack of "player skill". That player skill that you say is trumped by composition should also include situational awareness and not doing dumb things like give a ball carrying jumper a jump point or let sorc/sages position on your side for pulls.

 

We all see it all the time, someone standing at the edge of the pit firing down as the ball carrier is just waiting for his leap to come off cooldown. Your side of the ramps covered with opposing players ready for pull/pass support of their ball carrier while half you team is playing deathmatch in the middle. The only way any of this has to do with composition is the ratio of dumb vs smart players not advanced class make up.

 

So next time your in a game of huttball watching the above mentioned blunders, plus the many others I didn't take time to list, don't blame game mechanics and come to the forums for nerfs, blame the idiots your playing with for not learning to play the warzone properly.

[Itchy_Bum]

Situation 1: Ball carrier is a leaper on the last fire hazard before goal line. He gets knocked back but then could instantly leap back to where he was just at. It's that easy.

 

Situation 2: Ball carrier is a non leaper on the last fire hazard before goal line. He gets knocked back, now if there are no team mates anywhere near where he was just at then that's another 30 secs of walking while being shot at to get back to where he was just at. End of story.

 

There's the beef.

 

Ummm I dont know I have found the opposition standing up near spawn point waiting until ball carrier is dead or running on far side of ball carrier helps to not make leap targets.. if a vanguard or shadow sucks the enemy to them... who does the leaper have to jump to?

[flem]

2 sages and a guardian can defeat 8 players in huttball. what the other 5 players on teh sage/guardian's team does is irrelevant, b/c those 3 players can take the ball from mid to endzone in 60s tops, with ease.

If this happens to you, you're bad and/or your team is bad.

[Polebreaker]

2 sages and a guardian can defeat 8 players in huttball. what the other 5 players on teh sage/guardian's team does is irrelevant, b/c those 3 players can take the ball from mid to endzone in 60s tops, with ease.

 

And then? So they scored a goal. Still got 5 more to go and without the other roles, they arent going to be getting the ball again.

 

We all see it all the time, someone standing at the edge of the pit firing down as the ball carrier is just waiting for his leap to come off cooldown. Your side of the ramps covered with opposing players ready for pull/pass support of their ball carrier while half you team is playing deathmatch in the middle. The only way any of this has to do with composition is the ratio of dumb vs smart players not advanced class make up.

 

This. It drives me batty, and it doesnt matter how often I tell my team to watch our ramps, get the stealths out of our ez, and not to stand on the lip of the pit shooting down, people still do it.

 

Huttball is WAY more skill oriented than any of the other wz's, you have to actually THINK, be situationally aware, use your abilities and position yourself appropriately. None of this zerg the door, spam it with ae and hope the gods of respawn door lock smile on you...

 

I used to hate playing my scoundrel in huttball, and they are considered the absolute worst in that zone, but it's ok because if I do more than just sit in the ez stealthed waiting for a pass I can make a real difference to our team, leapers and pullers on it or no.

 

As we used to joke in guildchat oh so many years ago in eq during raids... KNOW YOUR ROLE!

[toomywoomy]

"know your role", "every one has a utility in huttball"

True statements ... Until you play an operative, at which point they become funny.

Some classes are obviously better and more useful in that WZ.

 

BUT i don't want any nerf on players abilities, i don't want them to change the way it plays because it's lots of fun ! imho objective pvp is more fun than a simple deathmatch, and that's why I love huttball.

Keep Huttball as is, but give me a way to choose which WZ to queue in. Because I sure don't want to play it on my operative.

[Odahviin]

"know your role", "every one has a utility in huttball"

True statements ... Until you play an operative, at which point they become funny.

Some classes are obviously better and more useful in that WZ.

 

BUT i don't want any nerf on players abilities, i don't want them to change the way it plays because it's lots of fun ! imho objective pvp is more fun than a simple deathmatch, and that's why I love huttball.

Keep Huttball as is, but give me a way to choose which WZ to queue in. Because I sure don't want to play it on my operative.

 

ummm you can heal yourself, you can heal the ball carrier and you can stealth and wait in the end zone for an easy pass.

 

gawd some of you whiners crack me up.

 

It's a team game you either carry the ball or support the carrier.

[toomywoomy]

ummm you can heal yourself, you can heal the ball carrier and you can stealth and wait in the end zone for an easy pass.

 

gawd some of you whiners crack me up.

 

It's a team game you either carry the ball or support the carrier.

I can heal myself : Notice that in the same post you state that it's a team game. So : useless.

Heal the carrier : in the mid okay; but not after the first fire obstacle. After that it's bump, rope, leap, push and bye bye operative see you in 30 s when you get out of the pit. (If you get out of the pit). At least a sorc can sprint through, or he can bump others himself.

Stealth and wait in the end zone : This simply takes too much time. If you're concealment spec and can vanish more often, it may be ok. But You would spend too much time trying to find the right opportunity, because of all the respawns and the ranged classes that defend on the ramps taking high ground. If you're healer spec'd, it's uselss, you will be more useful healing teamates and the CD on vanish is too high to be able to go unnoticed for a long time. And again an assassin will fill this role much more effectively since he has more tools.

So you're saying you can do X, Y AND Z, while in fact we can do X OR (exclusive) Y/2 OR Z/2.

 

(on a side note try not to be so condescendant, you don't know the people behind the computer, i've been playing operative since day one, and love my class, it just isn't fit for HB, which it's fine by me, not complaining I still find ways to have fun and will use my reroll for my ranked team in HB, if we get to choose the WZ ofc)

[Odahviin]

I can heal myself : Notice that in the same post you state that it's a team game. So : useless.

Heal the carrier : in the mid okay; but not after the first fire obstacle. After that it's bump, rope, leap, push and bye bye operative see you in 30 s when you get out of the pit. (If you get out of the pit). At least a sorc can sprint through, or he can bump others himself.

Stealth and wait in the end zone : This simply takes too much time. If you're concealment spec and can vanish more often, it may be ok. But You would spend too much time trying to find the right opportunity, because of all the respawns and the ranged classes that defend on the ramps taking high ground. If you're healer spec'd, it's uselss, you will be more useful healing teamates and the CD on vanish is too high to be able to go unnoticed for a long time. And again an assassin will fill this role much more effectively since he has more tools.

So you're saying you can do X, Y AND Z, while in fact we can do X OR (exclusive) Y/2 OR Z/2.

 

(on a side note try not to be so condescendant, you don't know the people behind the computer, i've been playing operative since day one, and love my class, it just isn't fit for HB, which it's fine by me, not complaining I still find ways to have fun and will use my reroll for my ranked team in HB, if we get to choose the WZ ofc)

 

lol no matter how many examples anyone on these forums give you for the viablity of your class you will discount them. I'll try a few more so you can think of ways that they are not viable (see below)

 

1) FYI healing yourself as the ball carrier is pretty handy.

 

2) I'm pretty sure flash banging 4 players as they try and run the ball through the fire is pretty handy too.

 

3) Or stun locking the carrier till your team shows up.

 

4) Or staying in stealth and stealth mezzing people coming out of the opposing teams spawn allowing your runner an easier way to get to the goal line.

 

Just because your AC can't leap or force speed doesn't make it less viable. Thinking about your class as limited does

 

derp

 

Oh yeah, it's impossible not to be condescending with all the BS flying around these forums. For example see your own post in response to mine shows that perhaps you should take your own advice.

[LarryRow]

ummm you can heal yourself, you can heal the ball carrier and you can stealth and wait in the end zone for an easy pass.

 

gawd some of you whiners crack me up.

 

It's a team game you either carry the ball or support the carrier.

 

This commits the great folly of assuming it's OK that only the heal spec is viable for operatives/scoundrels, when all 3 trees should be viable in all warzones.

 

In general though many of the ACs have interesting roles to play in Huttball. It's just a few that don't.

 

Also, the answer in the original Q&A was lame. No one is talking about full teams of force users. What would be far more valuable are numbers on win rates for teams that only have 1 or 2 force users, or are stacked heavy with smugglers/agents.

 

Ultimately, each side in the warzone has a roughly equal chance of getting a "good" team composition, and over the long run it evens out.

Edited May 14, 2012 by LarryRow