Guardian Balance Issue

[Anosa]

I have recently brought this up and people told me these high of hits do not happen ( ive had them hit over 6k but it didnt happen today)

 

These are all hits from Guardians. All were sabar throw. I have all recruit and BM gear except the chest piece.

 

I discussed this after a few matches today as well with team mates and they all agreed guardians are hitting like trucks.

 

http://postimage.org/image/707glnt5d/full/

 

http://postimage.org/image/swsiiyb07/full/

 

http://postimage.org/image/a53pt1e0t/full/

Edited May 12, 2012 by Anosa

[LiveandDieinLA]

That's not saber throw, its vicious throw, which is the Warrior's execute.

[Anosa]

That's not saber throw, its vicious throw, which is the Warrior's execute.

There was guardians doing this with a throw as well. i do not recall fighting any juggarnauts today.

Edited May 12, 2012 by Anosa

[LiveandDieinLA]

There was guardians doing this with a throw as well.

 

Yeah its a Jedi Knight / Sith Warrior ability. Its called Dispatch or Vicious throw respectively. Both Acs from the knight/ warrior class get the ability.

Edited May 12, 2012 by LiveandDieinLA

[Anosa]

Yeah its a Jedi Knight / Sith Warrior ability. Its called Dispatch or Vicious throw respectively. Both Acs from the knight/ warrior class get the ability.

 

either way that is wayyyy to high to get hit... it wasnt just those times either... were many other times but those times i had time to react and smack print screen. Not just me either,,, other players on my team were getting shredded by these...

 

if this was a like one in every 500 chance to hit like a legendary critical thats fine... but its wayy to high for normal tosses

Edited May 12, 2012 by Anosa

[ProfessorWalsh]

either way that is wayyyy to high to get hit... it wasnt just those times either... were many other times but those times i had time to react and smack print screen. Not just me either,,, other players on my team were getting shredded by these

 

It is the "execute" attack that Sentinels/Marauders/Juggernauts/Guardians get. That isn't saber throw. That is an attack that can ONLY be used if your enemy is at 30% or lower health.

[Anosa]

It is the "execute" attack that Sentinels/Marauders/Juggernauts/Guardians get. That isn't saber throw. That is an attack that can ONLY be used if your enemy is at 30% or lower health.

 

well with that said.. considering the way guardian is set up.. they should not hit this high.. they are hitting harder then actual dps classes.. it needs to be toned down

Edited May 12, 2012 by Anosa

[ProfessorWalsh]

well with that said.. considering the way guardian is set up.. they should not hit this high.. they are hitting harder then actual dps classes.. it needs to be toned down

 

You are aware that Guardians have a DPS spec right?

[NuSeC]

well... those numbers (in the pics) are normal. as a matter of fact that is our finishing move that can only be used at 30%hp or less. 6k + didnt happen. I get hit by sorcs for that without being at 30% hp so dont qq.

[Anosa]

You are aware that Guardians have a DPS spec right?

 

i am aware of this but they are also in heavy armor and have defensive abilitys as it is.

 

 

and yes 6.3k hit did happen

[Smashbrother]

i am aware of this but they are also in heavy armor and have defensive abilitys as it is.

 

 

and yes 6.3k hit did happen

 

6.3k from an execute did not happen. A force sweep bomb sure, but not from dispatch (JK execute).

 

You realize shadows and gunslingers also have the same below 30% execute that hits just as hard right?

[RJMazz]

Only disadvantage is it's not ranged and blah blah blah...

 

DPS guardians are squishy. Heavy armor makes very little difference in the summing up of facts.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Only disadvantage is it's not ranged and blah blah blah...

 

DPS guardians are squishy. Heavy armor makes very little difference in the summing up of facts.

 

Focus guardians are squishy. Well played Vig Guardians are pretty beast.

[RJMazz]

Focus guardians are squishy. Well played anything are pretty beast.

 

Fixed for you and bolded so you can see the difference.

 

They have fewer damage reduction, yeah, and their 4s CC immunity after leap sure do make them look beast. Stay away from that for 4 seconds, then take control of the battle again.

 

They haven't as much defense as a Defense guardian.

 

In any way, I agree their sustained DPS can be beast.

[LiveandDieinLA]

Fixed for you and bolded so you can see the difference.

 

They have fewer damage reduction, yeah, and their 4s CC immunity after leap sure do make them look beast. Stay away from that for 4 seconds, then take control of the battle again.

 

They haven't as much defense as a Defense guardian.

 

In any way, I agree their sustained DPS can be beast.

 

Yes a well played anything is beast. I should have been more specific than saying "beast". Their leap immunity + damage reduction, specced damage reduction on focused defense, give them a nice balance of damage and durability. Combine this with their effectiveness in Soretsu form, and you have a sepc that is basically Marshawn Lynch against the Saints defense.

[unicornfive]

I have recently brought this up and people told me these high of hits do not happen ( ive had them hit over 6k but it didnt happen today)

 

These are all hits from Guardians. All were sabar throw. I have all recruit and BM gear except the chest piece.

 

I discussed this after a few matches today as well with team mates and they all agreed guardians are hitting like trucks.

 

http://postimage.org/image/707glnt5d/full/

 

http://postimage.org/image/swsiiyb07/full/

 

http://postimage.org/image/a53pt1e0t/full/

 

Reroll a guardian then if u think they are so OP.

And then come back and post again about how OP they are, so we can all laugh at u.

[vimm]

well with that said.. considering the way guardian is set up.. they should not hit this high.. they are hitting harder then actual dps classes.. it needs to be toned down

 

Lol, they are an actual dps class.

[RJMazz]

Yes a well played anything is beast. I should have been more specific than saying "beast". Their leap immunity + damage reduction, specced damage reduction on focused defense, give them a nice balance of damage and durability. Combine this with their effectiveness in Soresu form, and you have a sepc that is basically Marshawn Lynch against the Saints defense.

 

What. Vigilance is crap with Soresu.

[AKfourtyseven]

I have all recruit and BM gear except the chest piece.

 

 

End of story.

[Bbizzle]

i am aware of this but they are also in heavy armor and have defensive abilitys as it is.

 

 

and yes 6.3k hit did happen

 

This is a common misunderstanding for people who dont or havent played a "tank dps class" If you go full on DPS on a ac that -HAS- a tank build optional. You're just as squishy as any DPS. People who think pyro or assualt vans are hitting that hard while being full tank are out of thier mind, they disentigrate without support. So do focus/rage specced guards/juggs. Unless they are running some hybridized build In which case they can only heavy smash on people once a minute from force choke, and its unreliable because you can be interrupted/stunned/knocked and it wont charge the skill all the way.

 

Heavy armor doesnt mean what it means in other games. It gives you literally like a 5% Damage mitigation difference to medium armor wearers. And if you think guards or juggs have defense skills, all I have to say is, have you ran into any good marauders or sents? lol.

[WillyWampa]

That's not saber throw, its vicious throw, which is the Warrior's execute.

 

Nice to know.I took a hit from a thrown sabre today and was like...**** that hit like a truck! probably around 4kish or so.Yet another reason that pro melee folks tend to understate melee ranged attacks and over play "kiting".Sure you need the target to be low on health but that never happens in pvp

[Vid-szhite]

well with that said.. considering the way guardian is set up.. they should not hit this high.. they are hitting harder then actual dps classes.. it needs to be toned down

 

To be able to crit 6k with Vicious Throw, you need to not only be DPS spec, you need to be in DPS form and have Relic/Adrenal popped, probably also against someone in bad gear, also with full Sunders, probably also in Vengeance spec with full stacks of Pooled Hatred. The most I've ever done is 5.3k, but that was against a War Hero Juggernaut in augmented gear, and I don't have Biochem, so no adrenal. I could probably break 6k on a Sorc if they were all really bad and gave me 5 full stacks of Pooled Hatred without killing me.

 

Guardian is an actual DPS class when specced for it, just like every other class. Why do people somehow think the heavy armor "tank capable" classes are not allowed to do good DPS? Heavy Armor doesn't even give you any mitigation bonus over Medium without running the Tank Stance (the difference is maybe 4% and the Med user can close the gap with talents. Thanks, diminishing returns!)

Edited May 13, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[Gloga]

Nice to know.I took a hit from a thrown sabre today and was like...**** that hit like a truck! probably around 4kish or so.Yet another reason that pro melee folks tend to understate melee ranged attacks and over play "kiting".Sure you need the target to be low on health but that never happens in pvp

 

Its a 10M attack. Its not a ranged attack.

 

@ OP The only way that you get hit for 6.3k is if you are in PVE gear and they are in full warhero gear and you slow them 5 times in a row. Every time a Vig spec guardian gets slow he gets a buff that lets the next melee ability hit for 10% more damage, it stacks 5 times. So if you slow him 5 times before he does a melee attack it hits for 50% more damage. Just to be clear it is only that one ability attack and the stacks go away.

 

Learn how other classes work and find a counter. Also buy recruit gear.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Gloga

[Vid-szhite]

Nice to know.I took a hit from a thrown sabre today and was like...**** that hit like a truck! probably around 4kish or so.Yet another reason that pro melee folks tend to understate melee ranged attacks and over play "kiting".Sure you need the target to be low on health but that never happens in pvp

 

4kish sounds about right for the average Vicious Throw crit (all but guaranteed to crit in Vengeance spec). Vengeance doesn't have that much burst, though - their other attacks hit for around 1500-2200 unless they crit. You'd be surprised about that 30% - Healers can very annoyingly keep other people from dropping below this line for long enough to allow a Vicious Throw. However, bad Sorcs that don't know how to kite will be instant fodder for me and are usually the first victims of a really big Vicious Throw. In such a case, I will often get the kill solo in less than 10s. Good sorcs can 1v1 me in a very close fight (only two have actually managed to do this, however - nobody else knows how to kite on my server).

Edited May 13, 2012 by Vid-szhite

[RJMazz]

4m distance = Close Range / Melee

 

10m distance = Mid Range / Kiting Range

 

30m distance = Long Range / Ranged Attack.

 

Vicious Throw would fall within a Kiting Range attack, so yeah... Not a Ranged Attack, but it does have some range. You'd bem impressed how significant 10m is in close quarters like a node in Alderaan, but insignificant when in the open like some spots in Denova.