Jestuh Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Ops/Scoundrels keep getting nerfed entirely because of PVP concerns. I really enjoyed PVP prior to 1.2 but I'm so tired of having the class I've been playing since pre-launch get nerfed that I've almost given up on it and just rerolled. So many people ***** and complain about getting killed by an op or ops getting kited or slaughtered in most scenarios now, but I haven't seen any real input on what a stealth burst damage class should be able to do. How much health should we be able to take away on our alpha strike? How quickly should we be able to get back into stealth? Do we need more ranged attacks? Do we need some sort of better buff or debuff? Do we need more defense? More sustained burst? Less attacks that require procs? More energy? Faster regen? Or are we fine the way we are? Maybe we need some new skills to tweak our burst, a cooldown reset power for all skills with a 3 minute cd? I don't know, but I do love playing my Op and I want to know what you guys think will help make it a great class to play and a dangerous class to play against again? Whatever you think please keep the QQ/l2p **** in another op thread, there're plenty out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayPres Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 You should be able to see an Operative coming, and they should only be allowed to use their open hand when attacking. All Operative abilities should have a 3 minute cooldown and using the in combat stealth should bring the Operative to 10% health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmasterr Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 We are ok the way we are. Operatives are a support class, regardless of spec. And while you can do well in 1v1, having a good team is where you really shine. As a dps, your role is to help burst key targets(and stealth ahead ball carriers in huttball /control middle/ramp). And not running after 1v1 with enemy tanks or healers. Problem is most other classes performance is not gimped as much as operatives upon lacking a good team. Some classes are so good on their own they can make or break a team's victory chances, especially in hutball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadicus Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) Well they have never said or released what exactly these metrics are for class balance. It looks to be mostly forum QQ driving their balancing. Powertechs, snipers, marauders, and assassins are far more valuable to a team than any dps operative. When rated WZs come out I expect to see a hefty buff to operative mobility and sustained damage because there will be no hiding how weak they are. Until then Bio Ware is either too stupid, too proud or both to admit that nerfing ops (and mercenaries) so hard was a mistake. Until they get some actual PVP devs who know what they are doing dps ops will be riding the pine alongside mercenaries and juggernauts. Edited May 12, 2012 by chadicus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aehgo Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 The way I see it is- If an OP gets the jump on me,he should be killing me 80% of the time. But if I get the jump on him,I should be killing him 60-70% of the time. Their burst needs a slight buff as that is all they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escarrabutxaques Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 The way I see it is- If an OP gets the jump on me,he should be killing me 80% of the time. But if I get the jump on him,I should be killing him 60-70% of the time. Their burst needs a slight buff as that is all they have. The burst should be buffed a lot actually to compensate everything that operatives lack (mobility, survivability and utility) and fix the "stuck in combat" issue. Or, as an alternative, keep the burst like it is now, but increase mobility/survivability/utility. It is so fun to respawn and already be stuck in combat, unable to stealth. Anyway, the dps operatives aren't ok now. They simply are too bad in team vs team enviroment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikedee Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Being able to 3 shot most classes says enough. They are fine. Funny topic though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctorfirepants Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 The way I see it is- If an OP gets the jump on me,he should be killing me 80% of the time. But if I get the jump on him,I should be killing him 60-70% of the time. Their burst needs a slight buff as that is all they have. Yea I agree, this is how it should be. Even if they can't kill you after getting the jump on you, you should be severely crippled leaving you to hide and heal or hope a healer is paying attention to you. As it stands now, after that initial burst I simply just get up and return the favor plus some and they just don't have that sustained dps to really be effective after the opening. I kind of feel that there role now is to latch on to another dps and just help quicken the fight, but they aren't really effective on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Being able to 3 shot most classes says enough. They are fine. Funny topic though. That would be impressive. Hidden Strike, Back Stab and what, Shiv? 5k each hit, and that's still not my entire health bar. Not to mention that 5k is more than generous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 In my oppinion, though I dont play a dps operative/scoundrel the middle dps tree was overnerfed, still some of the good players are absolute monsters using the shared tree. Overall my oppinion is that the class was nerfed too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vimm Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 In my oppinion, though I dont play a dps operative/scoundrel the middle dps tree was overnerfed, still some of the good players are absolute monsters using the shared tree. Overall my oppinion is that the class was nerfed too much. There are still a lot of people complaining about concealment, but they've clearly never even played it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khouj Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Ops should be what they are right now, plus a new 31pt melee dps talent. A mediocre gap closer of some kind (shadowstep). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KantaUO Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Being able to 3 shot most classes says enough. They are fine. Funny topic though. What level is your scroundrel? Only 3 shots is a lv50 vs. l30... full buffs including sent buff wz buff relic I hit equal target critting for 3.5k. Your selective memory is a fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jestuh Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 I'm cool with the healing tree, but concealment is almost useless now because of high energy costs, low relative burst, and no sustained DPS. Do people actually successfully use lethality? I assumed the DoTs would be so slow that you could heal around them. I'm not sure about a gap closer, I kinda of like having to slowly stalk or hunt my targets. But I do think we need more survivability, whether that's in the form of higher defense or greater damage I don't know. I think the worst thing for an op now is their inability to quickly restealth (other than their so called "burst" damage which isn't enough to actually burst someone down). I would love to see it easier to get back into stealth after combat. Waiting 2 minutes sucks when you have no other defensive abilities other than shield and evasion (which are both borderline useless in PVP). The timer on on the combat stealth should at least reset when you die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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