gpwarner Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I know this has been hashed out over and over. I've been a part of those discussions. Lots of theories about the 30m radius, that there's some directional component to it, that it's from where Zorn is standing, that it's from the Zorn tank, that it's from where Toth lands. All of it is speculation, or based on guilds that have downed them and think they know how it works (but even then there are differences in opinion). So, can we please get a developer comment on how the Fearful debuff on HM Toth and Zorn is *supposed* to work, as far as who it affects and when? Last night, we had 2 ranged dps on Zorn (sorc and sniper). They were literally standing on top of each other. When the jump hit, one would get it and one would not (it usually affected the sorc but not the sniper). If this is the way it's supposed to work, then fine - we'll work around it somehow. If not, then we'll open up a bug report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crowordo Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) I'm not entirely sure as to the specifics of who gets the Fearful Debuff, other than it's the group attacking Zorn when Toth jumps to him... but the strat my guild uses makes it so that you don't have to worry about it, just so long as the group attacking Zorn, and potentially gets the debuff, is watching out and is on the ball. If group 1 is attacking Zorn on the left side, and group 2 is attacking Toth on the right side, once the jump happens the two tanks pull each boss to the opposite side-- so that group 1 is attacking Toth on the left side, and group 2 is attacking Zorn on the right side. Nobody is moving, they are only attacking whichever boss is on their side. You just have to make sure you stop attacking Zorn once you get the debuff, then once Toth is pulled by the tank to your side, you can start attacking Toth. EDIT: Maybe you're already using this strategy and you're asking just to know exactly how it works. If that's the case, sorry for sidestepping the question. Edited May 11, 2012 by Crowordo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealCandyMan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) To be completely honest, I'd rather not have the developers tell us how it works. IMO It's part of the fun to learn the ins and outs of raids myself rather then have a dev tell us. I'm not entirely sure as to the specifics of who gets the Fearful Debuff, other than it's the group attacking Zorn when Toth jumps to him... but the strat my guild uses makes it so that you don't have to worry about it, just so long as the group attacking Zorn, and potentially gets the debuff, is watching out and is on the ball. If group 1 is attacking Zorn on the left side, and group 2 is attacking Toth on the right side, once the jump happens the two tanks pull each boss to the opposite side-- so that group 1 is attacking Toth on the left side, and group 2 is attacking Zorn on the right side. Nobody is moving, they are only attacking whichever boss is on their side. You just have to make sure you stop attacking Zorn once you get the debuff, then once Toth is pulled by the tank to your side, you can start attacking Toth. EDIT: Maybe you're already using this strategy and you're asking just to know exactly how it works. If that's the case, sorry for sidestepping the question. This is what we do as well. There might be a couple seconds overlap from when the jump happens again but that isn't anything that will cause a wipe or hit an enrage timer. Edited May 11, 2012 by TheRealCandyMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borowmir Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The problem in my eyes is that the devs mentioned the fearful range in the patch notes. Stating "Zorn's "Fearful" debuff is now correctly restricted to 30 meters." has just caused all sorts of confusion. The problem is they are stating that fearful should apply to a 30M range and by the wording should be applied from Zorn. So the analysis of that one patch note would be fearful applies to anyone within a 30M range of an unspecified direction. If they would have just put - "Fearful will no longer apply to people outside of it's range" - then there would be much less speculation and confusion around the matter. Anyway - back to the point.... In our experience this 30M range appears to be incorrect. We position a ranged DPS group on Zorn around 28M from him - they are never closer than 25M. As long as they don't step into the 25M range window - it appears consistent they don't get the debuff. This could be explained by the large hit-box on Zorn in some respects. If they have lets say a hitbox with a radius of 2.5M - that means ranged could potentially hit Zorn from 32.5M away (assuming the hitbox system works in this way). If the ranged are DPSing from 28M range (according to UI) and this 28M is measured from the edge of the hitbox, the actual distance from the center of the boss is 30.5M. If the debuff then is measured from the central position of the boss instead of the edge of the hitbox (which I'd assume is the norm) - the guys at 28M+ will be safe from the debuff. This is all of-course speculation from our experience - In reality, the tactic mentioned above will stop this issue by using a DPS and tank-swap on every jump (but this will depend on your healing and DPS setup, as to whether or not you can keep up with the enrage timer and also if your healers can cope with some increased damage from additional time of the bosses being next to each other + jump damage applying to more people. Anyways, just thought i'd throw my oppinion into the ring - but in the grand scheme of things I think Devs either need to ensure they explain tactics fully and with total clarity (which I don't really want them to do, as it takes a part of the enjoyment of learning fights away) or they need to not mention specifics of mechanics and list bug fixes in a manner that doesn't expose the core concepts of a mechanic - if they choose the middle ground - it causes too much confusion. Therm Elite Gaming http://www.youtube.com/Thermal8691 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinaa Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 It is 30 m, but it is 30 m from his center and since his hitbox is large, standing at 25+ m is enough to avoid it (we stand at 28-29m just to be safe). What I don't understand is why Bioware favors ranged dps on this fight so much more. Not only can ranged avoid fearful, they even take alot less damage. The other thing is, why does fearful not have a internal cooldown like almost every other ability in the game, if you have dots on the boss or executing an ability that does serveral hits and get fearful, your dead. We get it you want us to switch the target, but how are melee supposed to compete if they have to stop damage jsut because fearful could come any second or else they're instagibbed? Oh and by the way, who ever desinged the fight and thought: hey we can do phase switches depending on boss health! How about thinking a bit more into the future, we are already breaking the fights with too much dps, and that will get even worse with better gear. Having to taunt Zorn while fearful still has 10-20 seconds left is not funny, or at the tankfight... switching phases before Firebrand even cast his debuff, very funny yes but no longer a bossfight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neferseki Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 It is 30 m, but it is 30 m from his center and since his hitbox is large, standing at 25+ m is enough to avoid it (we stand at 28-29m just to be safe). What I don't understand is why Bioware favors ranged dps on this fight so much more. Not only can ranged avoid fearful, they even take alot less damage. The other thing is, why does fearful not have a internal cooldown like almost every other ability in the game, if you have dots on the boss or executing an ability that does serveral hits and get fearful, your dead. We get it you want us to switch the target, but how are melee supposed to compete if they have to stop damage jsut because fearful could come any second or else they're instagibbed? Oh and by the way, who ever desinged the fight and thought: hey we can do phase switches depending on boss health! How about thinking a bit more into the future, we are already breaking the fights with too much dps, and that will get even worse with better gear. Having to taunt Zorn while fearful still has 10-20 seconds left is not funny, or at the tankfight... switching phases before Firebrand even cast his debuff, very funny yes but no longer a bossfight. melee dps should be hitting toth not zorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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