Premades jump queues??

[mightycount]

I don't understand why premades can't be assigned a number like everyone else, and then have their group inserted when it is their turn. Perhaps you push a couple of people back in order to get the premade in (or make them wait one turn, whatever), but still it would be fair. I don't see any literature listed anywhere saying that being social in the game is preferred and that those who are get preference. That would be alienating a lot of your player base.

 

The more I think about it, the closer I am to the belief that the whole premades concept is stupid. It screws so many things, including your big ticket items like Ranked WZ and cross-server WZ. IT's time for BW to recognize it and drop the whole premades concept. Ask for preferences, if you want, but don't lock yourself in the rigid grouping structure.

[Timadan]

It sucks that this happens, but under certain circumstances they either have to give the group precedence or start warzones with less than a full team.

 

Consider the situation where two 4 man groups and anywhere from 1-3 soloers are queueing.

Either A) both 4 man groups get pops and the wz starts with a full team, or B) 1 group and 1-3 soloers get pops and the wz starts with 5-7 people.

 

The solution to this would be to avoid the absurdly low populations that allow this to occur.

Here's to hoping BW can sort out the "technology" behind cross-server queues.

 

This is the correct scenario where this would happen. None of the other explanations are even close to correct. Pre-mades get pitted against all solo ques all the time.

 

This game needs server merges and x server ques and it needed them yesterday.

[Zellata]

The more I think about it, the closer I am to the belief that the whole premades concept is stupid. It screws so many things, including your big ticket items like Ranked WZ and cross-server WZ. IT's time for BW to recognize it and drop the whole premades concept. Ask for preferences, if you want, but don't lock yourself in the rigid grouping structure.

 

You almost got it, but unfortunately you got it backwards - the solo queue concept is what screws so many things. In a team-based game it makes much more sense to create the team first, then start playing. In a system where PvP queue works exactly like PvE instances, i.e. you form a full group first, then all go into the instance/warzone, everything suddenly becomes much more simple. Solo queue should only be there as a backup in case somebody DC's during the match. Instead, it's made into a normal mode of queueing up and we have the mess that we have.

[xdvesper]

^ THIS

 

Ideally the SWTOR would also abolish solo queue but then all the casuals would start crying.

 

Guild Wars was one of the most competitive PVP MMOs back in the day, in 2006 there were $50,000 USD top prizes which was unheard of at the time. The PVP only allowed you to queue as a full premade of 8.

 

If you wanted to queue with less than 8 you had to take bots. There was no solo queue.

 

If you wanted to play and didn't have a team, you had to create a PuG or join one - much like PVE now. This forced players to become social and get to know one another, and the good players would remember each other and start forming PuGs more often and eventually they'd form a team.

[RobNightfall]

What if my strategy for grouping is using the damn grouping tool (ie queue)?? You're splitting hairs, big time. There is no difference, whatsoever. A lot of us don't have dedicated pvp pals or RL friends on at all hours. To group, we must queue. Our technique for grouping is no less valid than yours.

 

The grouping tool is the invite command, not the queue. And yes, your technique is less valid, as it is less social. My argument is, simply put, that social games reward social constructs (groups) and social players over solitary constructs (pug queues) and that this is normal and acceptable in a game that emphasizes social play styles (MMORPGs). And again, I get that it's not always possible to join a premade, 90% of the time I can't either, and that is simply our tough luck. This is honestly how it should be in an MMO. If you don't like it, play KOTOR again.

[mikedee]

To think this is ok is elitist. Does four people who queue separately and get grouped together not equal multi-player?

 

No they are nowhere near equal. You can pug into my premade and suck. But you will not be invited into my premade if u suck. Simple fix find a few bads that solo and group up prematch.

[GRINnBARRETT]

Premades have always been the royalty of MMOs. Puggers will forever be chasing the glass slipper.

[V-Serp]

I agree, they should remove the solo queue option. That way nobody would waste their time on this fail game. 90% of the premades would cry and quit when they'd get farmed by the 10% of good premades, because this stupid game prioritizes premades vs solos rather than a sensible premade vs premade and solo vs solo. You are actually far likelier to have 2 premades on one side facing a full solo queue than you are in getting a premade vs premade game. I've extensively tested this with premades and solos of my own as well as other people I've known on both faction sides on The Fatman server.

 

It is funny how incompetent the PVP dev team is for this game. I am convinced they are actually all Blizzard employees that are trying to sabotage Bioware. That is the only explanation for this much fail.

[roguebill]

No they are nowhere near equal. You can pug into my premade and suck. But you will not be invited into my premade if u suck. Simple fix find a few bads that solo and group up prematch.

 

Well, I will try this again since my last response was too "insulting".

 

I think you misunderstood the question. I didn't ask if a pug equals a premade. I asked if four people who were grouped by queuing equals multiplayer.

 

And by the way nice assumption that anyone who plays other than the way you do is bad.

[Dartagon]

The problem about queuing solo vs group is that if there is not enough solo to fill a group, they wont separate the rest of the grouped teams. IE: 9 people join the queue, 2x 4 groups and 1 solo. Does everyone now have to wait on you before they can play again? No the system checks, doesn't find suitable match up and you remain sidelined till you can be slotted in. I think this is a very good feature. It just doesn't benefit you since you solo queue. Join the premade or ask for a spot when one opens up if it bothers you.

[mrekxxx]

I agree, they should remove the solo queue option. That way nobody would waste their time on this fail game. 90% of the premades would cry and quit when they'd get farmed by the 10% of good premades, because this stupid game prioritizes premades vs solos rather than a sensible premade vs premade and solo vs solo. You are actually far likelier to have 2 premades on one side facing a full solo queue than you are in getting a premade vs premade game. I've extensively tested this with premades and solos of my own as well as other people I've known on both faction sides on The Fatman server.

 

It is funny how incompetent the PVP dev team is for this game. I am convinced they are actually all Blizzard employees that are trying to sabotage Bioware. That is the only explanation for this much fail.

 

i agree ...

[roguebill]

The problem about queuing solo vs group is that if there is not enough solo to fill a group, they wont separate the rest of the grouped teams. IE: 9 people join the queue, 2x 4 groups and 1 solo. Does everyone now have to wait on you before they can play again? No the system checks, doesn't find suitable match up and you remain sidelined till you can be slotted in. I think this is a very good feature. It just doesn't benefit you since you solo queue. Join the premade or ask for a spot when one opens up if it bothers you.

 

If the math is the reason for the delay in the queue popping than its not a big deal. If the system is set up to prefer groups over solos than it is a problem. Regardless of the opinion of some people the term MMO has no stipulations in it that you have to come to the game with three and only three people who you want to play with.

[mikedee]

Well, I will try this again since my last response was too "insulting".

 

I think you misunderstood the question. I didn't ask if a pug equals a premade. I asked if four people who were grouped by queuing equals multiplayer.

 

And by the way nice assumption that anyone who plays other than the way you do is bad.

 

I will try to not insult this time either. Skilled players prefer to play with other skilled people not Randoms. You might solo q. I do not...over 90% of Randoms are bad. We agree to disagree. You didnt offend me last post.

Why should my 8 mans(2 groups of 4) be broke up for 2 Randoms? Then not only are we going to lose bc it's 6v8 it's not fun.

[Niil]

I'd much rather have premades face off against premades while I wait than be matched against premades when solo queueing. As it stands, if I'm pvp'ing on one of my 50's, I'll leave if I've got a couple 12k heroes and we're opposing battlemaster premades. It's not worth the time investment. The system preferentially tries to match up premades vs premades and solos vs solos. That's a good thing.

[LarryRow]

It sounds like it's their group-matching algorithm working as intended. The system prefers to match a full team of 4 versus another full team of 4. The situation might have been that there aren't enough solo players to create a full 8v8 match, however there was a full premade of 4 on both factions queueing against each other.

 

Say something like a 4 man empire premade + 12 empire solo queuers in queue, and you're 10th on the list of solo queuers. On the other faction, a 4 man republic premade + 6 republic solo queuers in queue. This is how the matching algorithm goes.

 

1. The system will not set a premade vs full solo queue - for example, 4 premade empire + 4 solo queue VS 8 solo queue empire. Or, 4 premade republic + 4 solo republic VS 8 solo empire. For obvious reason, it doesn't want premade vs full pugs.

 

2. There aren't enough solo queuers on either faction to set up an 8v8 solo queue game so that alternative is out.

 

3. The system then has to create a 4v4 premade team, and pick 4 solo queuers from either faction. You're 10th on the list, so the solo queuers 1-4 get in. After the match ends, all players immediately requeue, same thing happens - not enough solo queuers to create an 8v8, so a 4v4 premade match gets set up and solo queuers 5-8 get in.

 

This is where you are standing in fleet basically going ***.

 

Similar situations can occur (which I have seen) where full premades take an extremely long time to find a match: usually when there's a lot of solo queuers in the pool, but no other 4 man premade queueing at the time.

 

Anyway, it's a price well worth paying, most players prefer to have a longer queue if it means they get a fairer match.

 

This is the correct answer to OP's post

[V-Serp]

The funniest ones are when it sticks 2 premades together and then has them play a full PUG group. I used to see that constantly.

 

It's like...geez, why not just use a same faction WZ and have the two face off against each other, even if it's only a 4v4 match? Especially when you're doing 2 premades against say 3 or 4 PUGs and not even having the full queue.

 

Look, the queuing system is screwed up and honestly I think everyone knows it at this point.

[LarryRow]

Look, the queuing system is screwed up and honestly I think everyone knows it at this point.

 

Nah, I think the algorithm is probably well-written, but it can only work with what it's given. Population issues and which players are queuing is the real source of the trouble.

 

Edit: Warzone matches starting with uneven teams could definitely stand to be addressed, but that's not really the queuing system IMO. It's whatever dev decided to pop the queue once 16 players were in and not have the game bother to check that they all accepted it.

Edited May 15, 2012 by LarryRow